New ortho programs

[GQ1]

what do you think will happen to ortho the new unnacredited programs (jacksonville, colorado) graduating 20 each a year. where else are they due to open up.

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[marmoreus]

Jax, CO, UNLV and now UMKC.

The benefits of being an orthodontist will be diluted, more dentists will be drawn away from more urgently needed areas (general, pedo etc), a two-tier system will develop in orthodontics (those that trained at real programs and those that trained at OEC programs), the integrity of the profession will diminish, the practice of corporate sponsorship/control of dental education will spread to other areas of dentistry.....and on and on.

It's ridiculous this is going on and that a few members of the dental profession are actively participating in it. I have no respect for anyone who is involved with OEC--including residents, faculty, deans, university presidents etc.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Jax, CO, UNLV and now UMKC.

The benefits of being an orthodontist will be diluted, more dentists will be drawn away from more urgently needed areas (general, pedo etc), a two-tier system will develop in orthodontics (those that trained at real programs and those that trained at OEC programs), the integrity of the profession will diminish, the practice of corporate sponsorship/control of dental education will spread to other areas of dentistry.....and on and on.

Corporate sponsorship has LONG exististed in dentistry. So have scholarships. It seems as though everybody believes that OEC affiliated individuals are providing the training to these OEC resident programs, which is untrue. OEC gives monies for the facilities (nothing new there, EVERY program gets monies from somebody) and then provides scholarships for some of the students who wish to enter OEC programs for a period of time following graduation (again, nothing new there).

Accredited programs don't create a two-tiered system. However, if there are valid issues with accreditation then the issue would be a severe one.

I'm glad you find it easy to judge "anyone who is involved with OEC--including residents, faculty, deans, university presidents."

 

[uicd2]

you're a *****. the faculty at UKMC had no say in this matter. OEC basically hijacked the school. what are they to do, quit their jobs? it's not so easy to pick up and start anew. yet you have no respect for them. you sound like a real understanding individual.

Jax, CO, UNLV and now UMKC.

The benefits of being an orthodontist will be diluted, more dentists will be drawn away from more urgently needed areas (general, pedo etc), a two-tier system will develop in orthodontics (those that trained at real programs and those that trained at OEC programs), the integrity of the profession will diminish, the practice of corporate sponsorship/control of dental education will spread to other areas of dentistry.....and on and on.

It's ridiculous this is going on and that a few members of the dental profession are actively participating in it. I have no respect for anyone who is involved with OEC--including residents, faculty, deans, university presidents etc.

 

[GQ1]

Jax, CO, UNLV and now UMKC.

The benefits of being an orthodontist will be diluted, more dentists will be drawn away from more urgently needed areas (general, pedo etc), a two-tier system will develop in orthodontics (those that trained at real programs and those that trained at OEC programs), the integrity of the profession will diminish, the practice of corporate sponsorship/control of dental education will spread to other areas of dentistry.....and on and on.

It's ridiculous this is going on and that a few members of the dental profession are actively participating in it. I have no respect for anyone who is involved with OEC--including residents, faculty, deans, university presidents etc.

how will anyone know or mind if you graduated from a new or established program. do you think it will make a difference in income. where else is scheduled to get a school after umkc?

 

[aphistis]

do you think it will make a difference in income.

I salute you, sir, for cutting through all the worthless crap--stupid, insignificant issues like "professional autonomy," "quality of care," and all the rest of that garbage--and getting to the only issue that should matter to us as professionals, the paralyzing fear of "what if we don't make as much money?"

 

[Blue Tooth]

Excellent point aphistis, yes we all work hard and yes we deserve to be well compensated, but there are certainly more important things to our profession.

Gavin- you make a good point regarding being judgemental but you're being too lenient on the OEC. They are shady and they are a threat to our profession, period. For-profit corporations do not deserve and should not have a significant role in any kind of education. While I certainly cannot stand ortho gunners in any way, shape, or form, and would certainly approve of a lessening of their stature so that more important parts of our profession (say pedo) can be more emphasized, the OEC's position's and actions are concerning. Their extreme reluctance to put out information on their applicants/accepted candidates is enough of a red flag. We as future dentists should emphasize these issues with CODA, the AAO, and the ADA to get something positive done.

 

[marmoreus]

OEC is very different from other types of corporate sponsorship we've seen in dentistry up to this point. OEC has a direct say in who is admitted and they are creating entirely new programs, not merely sponsoring scholarships for positions that already exist. They have already increaed the number of seats in ortho programs by 20%--that's a significant change and yet there is no regulatory mechanism in place to control them--apparently b/c nobody forsaw this type of scenario. The AAO and the ADA are fighting against OEC because of ethical and regulatory issues. So there is the ADA, AAO and me on one side and GavinC and J Lazarra on the other.....hmmmmm, I think I feel pretty comfortable over here. A two-tiered system is already under way. Jax ortho is already being excluded as well as excluding themselves from organizations and meetings etc that the rest of the profession participates in. My perception is that you are either naive to the situation or you have something against orthodontists. BTW, I'm glad you're glad I find it easy to judge these people's decisions--I was afraid people were going to be judgemental about me being judgemental.

UICD2: "you're a *****"? What a mature response. I guess I can excuse your immaturity given that you're only a D2. I'll give you a couple more years to grow up. The faculty at Jax, UNLV, CO all had to leave their jobs to go work for an OEC operation--pathetic. The UMKC faculty are apparently in a different position and it's not their fault. Still, I would quit before working for an OEC program and I would quit b/c my bosses would let my program be "hijacked" by OEC. Why would you want to work in such an environment? It's actually pretty easy to find another job in ortho, either in private practice or academics. But yes I do feel for them and their situation. I guess I am a *****.......please forgive me please....I can hardly see the computer screen through my tears of remorse.

We haven't even begun to talk about all of the adverse consequences of OEC.

I think we need to be informed and do what we can to protect our profession.

 

[marmoreus]

the first part of my last post is in response to GavinC

 

[GQ1]

I salute you, sir, for cutting through all the worthless crap--stupid, insignificant issues like "professional autonomy," "quality of care," and all the rest of that garbage--and getting to the only issue that should matter to us as professionals, the paralyzing fear of "what if we don't make as much money?"

i agree with you aphistis on the ethical issues but this is america and the second question after "whats your name?" is "what do you do for a living?" ie how much do you earn. and if your profession earns you less your status and your profffessions status is reduced. so if orthos earn less their status will go down. i think we all know that if we re talking about true atatus theOMFS guys deserve it, but you here ppl saying theyre idiots for not taking the easy money

 

[TrojanDDS]

i agree with you aphistis on the ethical issues but this is america and the second question after "whats your name?" is "what do you do for a living?" ie how much do you earn. and if your profession earns you less your status and your profffessions status is reduced. so if orthos earn less their status will go down. i think we all know that if we re talking about true atatus theOMFS guys deserve it, but you here ppl saying theyre idiots for not taking the easy money

Oh my gosh, that's exactly the attitude that classmates have when they ask me "do you actually like doing ortho?". People who don't have the appreciation for it think we're trying to do it for the $$. I've treated 11 ortho cases in dental school (which may not be much) but I can't tell you how much satisfaction I receive with every step and each finished case. I've asked faculty and residents at interviews what they think about OEC graduates and they say that they won't worry too much--they will ultimately inherit the cases that the OEC grads will screw up (which they will). I'm still waiting for the match in Dec. but if I don't get in this year, I will apply for a GPR and re-apply again. I will never sell my soul!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TrojanDDS]

I know I'm not an orthodontist yet, but I just have to vent on this subject.. what is your opinion of denturists [people with little (if any), informal training with removable prostheses] treating the cases that you learned to do in dental school w/ your teeth set-up, clinical remounts, concepts of occlusion, anatomy, etc.?

I've heard of 4+ more potential programs that may be taken over by OEC in the near future. I won't disclose their names until they become official.

 

[mike3kgt]

Yes this is a loooonnng winded response. Sometimes however subject of this matter because of its insidious content requires longer explanations to allow people to see its true nature.

Well-spoken! The future of dentistry is bright if we have people with as much forward thinking as you do.

The field of medicine failed to see the insidious context of a government-run healthcare system and decreased re-imbursements from 3rd party payors. Look at where it got them.

-Mike

 

[Supernumerary]

I've asked faculty and residents at interviews what they think about OEC graduates and they say that they won't worry too much--they will ultimately inherit the cases that the OEC grads will screw up (which they will). I'm still waiting for the match in Dec. but if I don't get in this year, I will apply for a GPR and re-apply again. I will never sell my soul!!!!!!!!!!!

What makes you think the OEC education will necessarily lead to such overwhelming incompetence. I read recently that nearly half of all ortho is done by GP's who have NO residency training - OEC financed or otherwise. (I wish I could remember where I saw that figure because I'm sure you won't believe me without a source.)

I am definfitely leaning towards the crowd that thinks OEC was dreamed up by Satan himself --- not because I think they are going to be churning out bad orthodontists, but because I think the whole system poses a serious threat to the integrity of our educational system and profession.

 

[GQ1]

I know I'm not an orthodontist yet, but I just have to vent on this subject.. what is your opinion of denturists [people with little (if any), informal training with removable prostheses] treating the cases that you learned to do in dental school w/ your teeth set-up, clinical remounts, concepts of occlusion, anatomy, etc.?

I've heard of 4+ more potential programs that may be taken over by OEC in the near future. I won't disclose their names until they become official.

=with respect i dont think your argument holds water. denturists are not even dentists never mind prosthetic specialists so educated patients and referring dentists will weed them out. OEC orthodontists are just like you they graduated dental school and did an ortho residency. No one coming for treatment knows the difference you re both DDS, and both orthodontists. But a denturist doesnt even have a Bachelors, DDS or MS prostho

 

[TrojanDDS]

But a denturist doesnt even have a Bachelors, DDS or MS prostho

I never said a denturist was a pros specialist. Like you said, they receive inferior training. Where are the OEC residents going to learn surgical cases if there is no OMFS department associated with the school??

 

[GQ1]

I never said a denturist was a pros specialist. Like you said, they receive inferior training. Where are the OEC residents going to learn surgical cases if there is no OMFS department associated with the school??

I agree with you on the point of the surgical training but unlv is planning to open departments in all specialties. But the crux of the matter is no 10 year old or their parent is going to ask you to produce your otho certificate. even if you put the OEC one in your office do you think they ll know its not a traditional school.The public will see an othodontist as an orthodontist no matter where they qualified from. And think about it ortho is only $5000 not like perio,pros or OMFS procedures that are 10 times that amount so I guess pts will be happy to be seen and not shop about.

 

[texas_dds]

dort ort - your long winded response was the best thing i have ever read on sdn. cheers!

 

[TrojanDDS]

I agree with you on the point of the surgical training but unlv is planning to open departments in all specialties.

...but the using "quality of care" as an arguement is weak at best.

Let me make this clear, we are all colleagues and I believe that every one of us has the ability to do anything in dentistry. My point about the below standards training is that if you've never seen an orthognathic case in residency, how can you properly diagnose one in practice? Something tells me that a complete education is not one of OEC's objectives when they will not wait for the other specialty departments to open before starting their ortho program. That is my point.

 

[GQ1]

Let me make this clear, we are all colleagues and I believe that every one of us has the ability to do anything in dentistry. My point about the below standards training is that if you've never seen an orthognathic case in residency, how can you properly diagnose one in practice? Something tells me that a complete education is not one of OEC's objectives when they will not wait for the other specialty departments to open before starting their ortho program. That is my point.

General dentists never see a big perio/prostho case in dental school but they think they can manage and dont refer. I think someone who has gone to an OEC program will manage or at least develop in practice. Face it your only a dentists like the OEC guy

 

[uicd2]

say you're living in KC (or any other OEC location for that matter) and your passion is working in academics, specifically in ortho. no it's NOT easy to move hundreds/thousands of miles to another school to teach ortho. and no it's NOT easy to just go work in private practice if that is not your passion. the point i'm making is for every faculty member that got shafted there, there is a bigger story behind each individual. maybe one of them can't simply pack up and move to another university due to family reasons. maybe one of them is a retired practitioner who only wants to devote himself to teaching now, but just can't move out of KC and leave everything behind. and yet you have no respect for them.

sure some may say my language is "immature". fine i can admit that. but some might say your viewpoint on life is "immature". the way you think it's so "easy" to just find any old job somewhere shows you lack life experience. maybe you have the privelege of taking little things like that for granted. the way you can make a blanket statement about all faculty, students, etc., at a program exhibits your maturity too.

enough has been said here. just PM me if you want to argue more...
i promise to listen.

UICD2: "you're a *****"? What a mature response. I guess I can excuse your immaturity given that you're only a D2. I'll give you a couple more years to grow up. The faculty at Jax, UNLV, CO all had to leave their jobs to go work for an OEC operation--pathetic. The UMKC faculty are apparently in a different position and it's not their fault. Still, I would quit before working for an OEC program and I would quit b/c my bosses would let my program be "hijacked" by OEC. Why would you want to work in such an environment? It's actually pretty easy to find another job in ortho, either in private practice or academics. But yes I do feel for them and their situation. I guess I am a *****.......please forgive me please....I can hardly see the computer screen through my tears of remorse.

We haven't even begun to talk about all of the adverse consequences of OEC.

I think we need to be informed and do what we can to protect our profession.

 

[ItsGavinC]

So there is the ADA, AAO and me on one side and GavinC and J Lazarra on the other.....hmmmmm, I think I feel pretty comfortable over here.

Nice spin. The ADA has accredited the programs (although they are and will continue to look into issues regarding that).

 

[ItsGavinC]

By the way, I'm neither "for" nor "against" the OEC programs. There are some points that I am in strong disagreeance with when it comes to their program function, but I also feel it uneccesary to judge their residents in regards to their training, ESPECIALLY when they haven't even graduated any residents yet!

 

[marmoreus]

Nice spin. The ADA has accredited the programs (although they are and will continue to look into issues regarding that).

The ADA passed resolutions last year specifically against OEC and to try to begin to put up a wall to block futher incursions by OEC into the dental profession. Not spin, just the facts.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Regarding the above comments and opinions:

It really disappoints and saddens me that someone in the dental community would have such a near-sighted and naive view of this situation with OEC.

That's why we have the tremendous benefit of discussing issues with each other. Nobody at my school as sat us down and discussed the OEC and it's ramifications on dentistry with us, and I'm sure the story is the same at most schools. At least we are here participating in the conversation--it could be worse (apathy).

Bottom line is that when you sign on with outfits like OCA you (having invested 10 years of school and god knows how much money) will not have autonomy or independence in a career you've invested so much in and you will be immersed in self pitty when you know your orthodontic or dental colleagues down the road not contractually obligated are doing so well and are free from binding agreements governing how, when, and where they work.

So people shouldn't be free to make their own decisions, even if they are bad ones? What about military residents who are under agreement binding how, when and where they work (I know it isn't the same, but you mentioned it as a point to your argument).

This is how a recent ortho grad from a traditional ortho program feels -- catch my drift Mr GAVINC. So again you should think a little more before commenting on this subject in such a naive way.

So do you agree with the OP that it is right to judge everybody associated with the OEC? I never proclaimed to know it all in regards to this subject. Quite to the contrary, I know very little--but I do know that I don't feel right judging people according to the criteria laid out by the OP. For *some* people the OEC programs are a very viable option for what they want to accomplish in their careers. That's good. The flip side is that many aspect of these programs go against what I hold in high value regarding our profession.

I'm here to learn just like everybody else, so please continue to teach me. Thanks.

 

[uicd2]

does anyone know where the grads from OEC will be placed? are their practice locations determined BEFORE they start their residency or AFTER they finish it?

if OEC is trying to put a spin on their program, claiming it is to alleviate the ortho shortage, it will be interesting to see if OEC really opens up practices in actual areas of need, or if their practices start popping up in beverly hills...

 

[kato999]

OEC has fulltime employees that will research the location that will make them the most money. They won't have anything to do with underserved populations unless it is finacially good for OEC. If beverly hill's will make them more money than practicing somewhere else you can bet that's where they will plant a office.

 

[antidentite]

According to marathondoc in another thread UMKC has rejected OEC's offer. This is great news for both the specialty and the dental profession in my oppinion. If the UMKC news is accurate, this could be a turning point in the advancement of this type of educational model. Any specifics on why the deal fell through. From people I have talked to it seemed as though the deal was all but done. Perhaps did they see a withdrawel or diminished amount of quality applicants after the news was announced?

 

[antidentite]

Posted by someone on another site:

www.dentist-forum.net/ dentistry/OEC_and_UMKC_224951.html
Funky_K
Subject: Re: OEC and UMKC

I am an ortho resident at Saint Louis University, and I too heard some
disturbing rumors this weekend from separate credible sources.

From what I understand, the deal at UMKC has already gone through. It
was a shock to everyone there, including the program chair, who had
know idea what was going on until it was too late. Lazzarra went
above the department to school deans and chancellors, who are
motivated by money, and probably don't fully understand the
implications of what they did.

The rumors:
Saint Louis University will soon be making an announcement that from
now on, 4 of its 14 orthodontic residencies will be taken from the OCA
(OEC) list.

Southern Illinois University is rumored to be in negotiations with
Lazzarra to start another OCA funded orthodontic residency program
(like Colorado and Jacksonville)

Two other schools were mentioned... San Antonio and I can't remember
the other one.

OCA must be stopped!!

 

[TrojanDDS]

Antidentite, I sent you a PM.

 

[gryffindor]

Two other schools were mentioned... San Antonio and I can't remember
the other one.

OCA must be stopped!!

I interviewed at San Antonio last year (2003) and people were floating rumors then that OCA was going to become affiliated with their ortho department. But obviously that has not materialized in a year and a half now. I have no idea if it's true or not, just telling you what I've heard.

I'm hoping to match into ortho this year. I can feel right now that once I get in, I would like to get involved in whatever it is to stop the madness.

One thing to consider, the current OCA programs all only have provisional accreditation in order to be open. The CODA can certainly fail them when they come back to evaluate the sites for full accreditation and stop OCA there. In that case, only about 2 years worth of classes would have graduated from Jacksonville, etc. Unless the OCA is paying someone off at CODA to make sure they get full accreditation, that maybe the best place to put a road bloak to the OCA.

 

[Wah]

www.dentist-forum.net/ dentistry/OEC_and_UMKC_224951.html
Funky_K
Subject: Re: OEC and UMKC

I am an ortho resident at Saint Louis University, and I too heard some
disturbing rumors this weekend from separate credible sources.

From what I understand, the deal at UMKC has already gone through. It
was a shock to everyone there, including the program chair, who had
know idea what was going on until it was too late. Lazzarra went
above the department to school deans and chancellors, who are
motivated by money, and probably don't fully understand the
implications of what they did.

The rumors:
Saint Louis University will soon be making an announcement that from
now on, 4 of its 14 orthodontic residencies will be taken from the OCA
(OEC) list.

Southern Illinois University is rumored to be in negotiations with
Lazzarra to start another OCA funded orthodontic residency program
(like Colorado and Jacksonville)

Two other schools were mentioned... San Antonio and I can't remember
the other one.

OCA must be stopped!!

You want more rumors??? RUMORS don't mean ****.

Date: 22 Oct 2004 17:43:30
From: Joel M. Eichen
Subject: OCA rumors overheard in the hall ......

The info about SLU and San Antonio are NOT
true... Lets not spread any nasty rumors about two perfectly good
programs. SIU does not have an ortho program, but it is in the
boonies... where would they get their patients?

 

[texas_dds]

i can guaran-damn-tee you that san antonio has NOTHING to do w/OCA or OEC. Lazzara tried to bribe us w/a new conference room a few years back and it was stomped out quickly by the local ortho community who came up w/the $$ instead. I have talked at length about this with the chair at san antonio - i can give you my word that OEC would have to sneak in over his dead body. our dean is also on the ada accreditation commmittee and is well aware of the aao's concerns about oec and he is NEVER gonna let that happen to san antonio. PLEASE do not ever believe OEC rumors about san antonio - its a new program but FULLY LEGIT!!!!!!! they would rather shut it down than ever go OEC - i have the chair's word on that.

 

[GQ1]

Posted by someone on another site:

www.dentist-forum.net/ dentistry/OEC_and_UMKC_224951.html
Funky_K
Subject: Re: OEC and UMKC

I am an ortho resident at Saint Louis University, and I too heard some
disturbing rumors this weekend from separate credible sources.

From what I understand, the deal at UMKC has already gone through. It
was a shock to everyone there, including the program chair, who had
know idea what was going on until it was too late. Lazzarra went
above the department to school deans and chancellors, who are
motivated by money, and probably don't fully understand the
implications of what they did.

The rumors:
Saint Louis University will soon be making an announcement that from
now on, 4 of its 14 orthodontic residencies will be taken from the OCA
(OEC) list.

Southern Illinois University is rumored to be in negotiations with
Lazzarra to start another OCA funded orthodontic residency program
(like Colorado and Jacksonville)

Two other schools were mentioned... San Antonio and I can't remember
the other one.

OCA must be stopped!!

Why do you want them stopped. wire bending isnt like medicine theyre not going to kill anyone. i think we should all agree the more specialists we have the better for patient access

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

I don't think anybody has a problem with increasing the number of ortho grads (except for those people who are in it for the money). What has everybody up in arms is the idea of a single corporation having so much control over the educational process and over an entire specialty. It used to be pretty common for pharmacists and optometrists to own their own practices; now the majority work for Walgreen's and Eyeglass World. It looks for all the world that Lazarra wants to get in on that same action - his own little Braces-R-Us.

 

[antidentite]

i just posted a link from another site.....i am not the person who wrote this.....follow the link and ask him. i don't agree with the idea that the more specialists the better for patient access in this context. this is a money venture first and foremost. this company will send their indentured servants to areas where they can make the most money.....not where there is the greatest need. i don't understand where you are going with the ortho not being like medicine and they are not going to kill anyone comment. does that mean it is ok for a for profit company to alter the educational model in a way that allows it to own a majority of the ortho practices, orthodontists and schools some day. you may not have an interest in ortho, but if this business model is a success there is no stopping them from moving to pedo, prostho, perio, endo as well as general dentistry. do you honestly embrace the idea of a company owning schools and controlling where and how much you will work for along with deciding who is accepted based upon if they agree to work for them after they graduate? do you see any ethical concerns with regards to education and patient management that will arise when the bottom line is to turn a profit for a company composed of far more MBA's than DDS's ? i guess you can laugh at the plight of some orthos now if that is the angle you are taking, but if this is a success, i feel it will come to haunt you as well in whatever field of dentistry you choose.

Why do you want them stopped. wire bending isnt like medicine theyre not going to kill anyone. i think we should all agree the more specialists we have the better for patient access

 

[ItsGavinC]

I don't think anybody has a problem with increasing the number of ortho grads (except for those people who are in it for the money).

Actually, it seems that IS the root problem for lots of people.

 

[DDSSlave]

It is my understanding that the conversations and/or contracts between the dean of UMKC and OEC were confidential which is why the chair of ortho didn't find out ahead of anyone else. This makes it difficult in predicting where OEC's next targets are.

 

[DDSSlave]

Actually, it seems that IS the root problem for lots of people.

OEC planned on increasing UMKC's class of 4 to 16. How could they possibly maintain a quality orthodontic education?

The increase in numbers of ortho grads is not the main issue. It is the degradation of a healthcare education by a controlling for-profit corporation.

There have been recent newly opened traditional ortho programs (UTSA for example). Orthodontists are proud to have a new growing program on board graduating new orthodontists.

Quantity has little to do with it. Quality has everything to do with it.

 

[Wah]

According to marathondoc in another thread UMKC has rejected OEC's offer. This is great news for both the specialty and the dental profession in my oppinion. If the UMKC news is accurate, this could be a turning point in the advancement of this type of educational model. Any specifics on why the deal fell through. From people I have talked to it seemed as though the deal was all but done. Perhaps did they see a withdrawel or diminished amount of quality applicants after the news was announced?

YES, UMKC rejected the OEC offer. The deal was never made. It was supposed to be done around now, but something happened. It is likely that the outcries from orthodontists, residents and other dental school deans were heard. Dean Reed tried to sell out the school and the profession, but he got shot down by the chancellor of the university. I'm sure she recieved a ton of letters from all over the country....
Finally somebody listened.

 

[Geezer99]

Regarding the above comments and opinions:

It really disappoints and saddens me that someone in the dental community would have such a near-sighted and naive view of this situation with OEC. Next time, before you post a brash and uninformed comment just for the sake of voicing a differing opinion anecdotally, you should look into the subject matter more closely.

OCA and now OEC will eventually make a farse of orthodontist such that they will be on the same level as optometrist or pharmacists who are in every corner Walgreens or Wal-mart or CVS stores. How sad for the orthodontic profession. Worse than this is how people in the dental community see that OEC is good for the profession. how very sad. Anyways I am digressing --- getting back to my point :

Of course Lazarra being a swine that he is got out of the picture with OCA but believe you me I'm sure he still has some interest or connection with OCA whether he is public about it or not. So here's the crux of the point I am trying to make. Lazzara with all his cash is now BUYING recent grads through this orthodontic education company (OEC) of which he is CEO, such that he can place them into all the old OCA practices that are going out of business because they can't find orthodontist who will volunteerily join. So here are the OEC programs whose residents will sign a contract, once accepted stating they have to work for an OEC (really just OCA) office for seven years. Again how sad.
QUOTE]

I realize that this is an old posting, but I just have to clear something up. OEC is not and never has been affiliated with OCA. It may be the same person who started, but it's not the same company. The practices you work in are built from scratch. They aren't old OCA offices. I have a friend who is doing the program, and from what I understand, the working conditions are set by the doctor. They may have to work for them for seven years, but the doctor sets the hours, days, and staff. They have a lot of freedom...a heck of a lot more than at Western Dental type places.

 

[texas_dds]

from a UMKC grad who is an ortho resident at another school:

the alumni at UMKC threatened to cut their support and the faculty threatened to walk - tons of letters were written from all over to stop this BS and IT WORKED! this gives me tremendous hope that established programs can be salvaged from this blight.

 

[GQ1]

are the oec residencies 2 or 3 years and are they paid?

from a UMKC grad who is an ortho resident at another school:

the alumni at UMKC threatened to cut their support and the faculty threatened to walk - tons of letters were written from all over to stop this BS and IT WORKED! this gives me tremendous hope that established programs can be salvaged from this blight.

 

[Jone]

it's clearly stated on their website.

are the oec residencies 2 or 3 years and are they paid?

 

[GQ1]

helpful answer joan