New US resident, new education system, unrealistic expectations?

[British88]

I'm really hoping someone can shed a little light on my situation, any advice is welcome!

I recently moved to the US from England with my wife. Back in London I had just finished up my masters and was planning to become a Sport and Exercise Psychologist. But things changed and we decided to move over here, which meant I could not pursue the same career in the same way, basically the profession does not exist over here. So exploring my options lead me into considering medicine both allopathic and osteopathic. My father-in-law (an ER physician) is extremely supportive, as is my wife, and I feel I definitely have the ability, work ethic and determination to become a doctor, but whether I have all the qualities and credentials med schools will want, that I can't say. I've had my British education evaluated here:

BSc. Psychology and Cognitive Neuroscience - cGPA 3.24 , sGPA 4.0 (only have 16 credits of BCPM so far)
MSc. Sport and Exercise Psychology- cGPA 3.25

As the education system is completely different over here, there are some prerequisites I have to do. I have a year of chemistry and biology with labs, both with A's, so I still need english (somewhat ironic), physics with lab and chemistry with lab. Furthermore I will also be doing anatomy, physiology and biochemistry all with labs. Nearly all of my credit hours from the UK are in behavioral science (psychology/cognitive neuroscience/neuroscience) as we stop general education before the junior/senior years of high school. I have 124 semester credits from my undergrad and 36 semester credits from my masters.

With all the prerequisites I'm doing I can bring my cGPA up to 3.45, and a BCPM sGPA of about 3.7-4.0, but this is going to take me at least a year or so, and take the MCAT in about a years time. I'm planning to apply to schools in Spring/Summer of 2016 for entry to med school in fall of 2017 by which time I'll be 28 years old...

So my questions is... Do I have a chance?

I'm older, my education is spread over a large time frame, my cGPA will be lower than the average matriculant...

Does anything play in my favor, such as that I've come from a different country (albeit very similar), or that I have a masters?

I'm considering both MD and DO schools, do I have a chance with either?

I'd really appreciate any advice! Thanks!

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[DocMomNo1]

Hey British88! I am/was basically in the same boat! Came to the U.S. from Germany. Have to start a new career and finally get to do what I always wanted!! One thing that is important to know is, that you need to have a minimum of 90 credits from a U.S. school (including the prerequisites) in order to be considered for admissions here. All prerequisites have to be completed in a U.S. institution. Plus, your foreign GPA won't be considered when calculating your GPAs..this can be good or bad So...according to TMDSAS, your foreign degree will be acknowledged as a completed degree, but you won't get any credit towards completion of the prerequisites. I hope this helps!

 

[British88]

Thanks for your help DocMom! I'd just read that on another thread too. It has really deflated me to be honest.. 90 credits will take a good three years at least right? How are you going about getting your 90 credits? It may not be feasible for me as I was planing to study part time and work full time, full time study is not an option as my wife is currently in school!

 

[DocMomNo1]

Again...in the same boat! You can do it as a post bacc at a university. Most have evening classes..and you should also look into CLEP. It's a test that costs about 80-100$. If you do well, it'll replace a class at your university. Every school has a list of classes you can CLEP and it'll show you the amount of hours you get credit for. Classes are very expensive here in the states, so I do plan on doing CLEP quite a bit as I'm good at self study

Don't be too worried, it all seems like a lot but it is do-able and well worth it! Take it one step at a time and you'll get there. We can do it!!

 

[British88]

Thanks DocMom! I had a look through CLEP and all the med schools... Even with CLEP at the university I'm going to I'd still need many more classes to reach the 90 mark. I already have 150 undergrad credits and 36 grad credits.

However, I did find a few MD schools (and still looking) which only require 1 year of school to be completed in the US rather than 90 credits. Which would be more than covered by the remaining prerequisites I need to take. Also, I've found some DO schools will accept international education as long as its evaluated by a credential evaluation service. I used World Education Services, which seems to be widely recognized. Although there are less schools that will consider me without the 90 US credits, it would decrease the wait time before I can apply dramatically, so I think I'm gonna go in that direction.

Thanks for your help DocMomNo1

 

[Scottish Chap]

I'm really hoping someone can shed a little light on my situation, any advice is welcome!

I recently moved to the US from England with my wife. Back in London I had just finished up my masters and was planning to become a Sport and Exercise Psychologist. But things changed and we decided to move over here, which meant I could not pursue the same career in the same way, basically the profession does not exist over here. So exploring my options lead me into considering medicine both allopathic and osteopathic. My father-in-law (an ER physician) is extremely supportive, as is my wife, and I feel I definitely have the ability, work ethic and determination to become a doctor, but whether I have all the qualities and credentials med schools will want, that I can't say. I've had my British education evaluated here:

BSc. Psychology and Cognitive Neuroscience - cGPA 3.24 , sGPA 4.0 (only have 16 credits of BCPM so far)
MSc. Sport and Exercise Psychology- cGPA 3.25

As the education system is completely different over here, there are some prerequisites I have to do. I have a year of chemistry and biology with labs, both with A's, so I still need english (somewhat ironic), physics with lab and chemistry with lab. Furthermore I will also be doing anatomy, physiology and biochemistry all with labs. Nearly all of my credit hours from the UK are in behavioral science (psychology/cognitive neuroscience/neuroscience) as we stop general education before the junior/senior years of high school. I have 124 semester credits from my undergrad and 36 semester credits from my masters.

With all the prerequisites I'm doing I can bring my cGPA up to 3.45, and a BCPM sGPA of about 3.7-4.0, but this is going to take me at least a year or so, and take the MCAT in about a years time. I'm planning to apply to schools in Spring/Summer of 2016 for entry to med school in fall of 2017 by which time I'll be 28 years old...

So my questions is... Do I have a chance?

I'm older, my education is spread over a large time frame, my cGPA will be lower than the average matriculant...

Does anything play in my favor, such as that I've come from a different country (albeit very similar), or that I have a masters?

I'm considering both MD and DO schools, do I have a chance with either?

I'd really appreciate any advice! Thanks!

You have more than a chance. A solid MCAT score will be key for you. Do not take it until you have completed ALL the prerequisites and only take it if you consistently are scoring 30+ under exam conditions. Apply MD and DO--the latter knows WES and they generally will accept a foreign undergraduate degree + MCAT.

Good luck!

 

[British88]

Thanks for that Scottish Chap! I was thinking the MCAT would be key. I wasn't planing on going anywhere near the MCAT until I have all the prerequisites under my belt, along with tonnes of practice. Cheers!

 

[FFH]

Here is what I would advice:

1. Get as many science credits as you can. Although some schools require only a year of work, but you are going to be rather weak in thee eyes of top schools if they are your aim. Ideally, a full postbacc would serve as a compelling academic credential.

2. Get clinical experiences here, the more the merrier, it's really important for traditional student, but especially important for non-tranditonal career changers to show strong interest through extend commitment and in depth knowledge regarding medicine. It seemed to me that Clinical research coordinator type of position, either paid or non-paid are a good way to accumulate both clinical and research experiences while at the same time maintaining a strong interpersonal relationship with a clinician who can later on write you a substantive and stunning letter<-----determining factor once you have all the academic qualification and once you need to stand out from thousands of others who also have good academic qualifications.

3. Don't worry about your age, at all. You're more than fine. Take your time. Enjoy life while you pursue your goal.

Do you have a green card? It sounds like you do. In which case, you don't have to worry.

 

[British88]

Thanks for the advice FriendlyFH. I looked into pre-med postbacs and it seems pretty similar to the courses I was planning on doing (I have 1 year of biology and chemistry from England):

Orgo Chem I & II - 8 credits
Physics I & II - 8 credits
Anatomy & Physiology I & II - 8 credits
Biochemistry - 4 credits
2 English - 6 credits
Precalc and Calc - 6 credits

Total - 40 US semester credits
Total BCPM - 50 semester credits

The above along with my 124 undergrad credits in behavioral sciences, and 26 grad credits in behavioral sciences do you still think I'd be limited by top schools? I'm not planning on aiming for the elite, just the majority.

I have been applying tonnes CRC jobs at the moment, so glad you are advising that! Is that what you did?

Yes I have a green card so no problems there!

 

[DocMomNo1]

@British88, I haven't heard of that!! Which schools require only one year? It would be great if you could share that info with me very interested! Thanks!!

 

[FFH]

@British88, I haven't heard of that!! Which schools require only one year? It would be great if you could share that info with me very interested! Thanks!!

Cornell, Hopkins, Yale. Mostly big names. Columbia only require all the premed course plus English. And if you do their postbacc program, quite a few linkage opportunity for which you can apply in your first year of postbacc and attend med school after the completion of your second year directly. Some would even waive your MCAT such as Brown and Columbia itself. Non-big name schools and the state schools tend to have stricter requirements. The information are on their websites btw.....

 

[FFH]

Thanks for the advice FriendlyFH. I looked into pre-med postbacs and it seems pretty similar to the courses I was planning on doing (I have 1 year of biology and chemistry from England):

Orgo Chem I & II - 8 credits
Physics I & II - 8 credits
Anatomy & Physiology I & II - 8 credits
Biochemistry - 4 credits
2 English - 6 credits
Precalc and Calc - 6 credits

Total - 40 US semester credits
Total BCPM - 50 semester credits

The above along with my 124 undergrad credits in behavioral sciences, and 26 grad credits in behavioral sciences do you still think I'd be limited by top schools? I'm not planning on aiming for the elite, just the majority.

I have been applying tonnes CRC jobs at the moment, so glad you are advising that! Is that what you did?

Yes I have a green card so no problems there!

You'd better throw in a Stats course. Orgo can be more depending on the lab credits. CRC job is indeed the best deal to get clinical and research experience. I did more basic sciences than CRC but I have benefit tremendously from the CRC experience.

Otherwise your plan looks solid to me. Your behavioral science background will aid you in the new MCAT!

 

[DocMomNo1]

Oh okay, thank you @FriendlyFH well, considering the chances of gaining admission...I guess I'm sticking to my old plan then.

 

[FFH]

Oh okay, thank you @FriendlyFH well, considering the chances of gaining admission...I guess I'm sticking to my old plan then.

It's not easy for non-trads like you and me, good luck!

 

[British88]

Thanks FriendlyFH. I've got 3.5 lower credits and 7 upper credits in stats already from the UK, so I've got that covered!

Competition for CRC jobs are high, and are quite tough to get where I live.. I have a good chance of getting a job with a health and wellness charity which would allow me to do some community health education and assist in research, there is also potential to co-author research in health promotion. Would that be a good job do you think?

 

[FFH]

Thanks FriendlyFH. I've got 3.5 lower credits and 7 upper credits in stats already from the UK, so I've got that covered!

Competition for CRC jobs are high, and are quite tough to get where I live.. I have a good chance of getting a job with a health and wellness charity which would allow me to do some community health education and assist in research, there is also potential to co-author research in health promotion. Would that be a good job do you think?

I don't think I'm qualified to answer regarding stuff beyond what I did. I never did any education research so not sure how would that impact your app.

You'd better seek out the helpful adcom SDNers. like @gyngyn or @Goro @LizzyM . There is a thread started by another adcom @hushcom in the regular premedical subforum dedicated to answering questions.

That being said, I am able to say that all experiencing showing your dedication to serve would be great. But definitely prioritize getting tons of clinical experiences.

 

[Buzzin]

GO FOR IT.

 

[Kvasir]

Having an interesting story and a former career you gave up for this is *always* a plus, especially in interviews. I can't really offer much beyond what was said for doing well on classes and the MCAT.

As part of my (long forgotten) undergrad, I did a year at LSE so I am partial to Londoners . Of course as a study abroad program it was calculated rather differently, but international experience is always considered a plus in almost every sense. Just make sure you get the critical volunteering experiences to supplement your background.

I'll give you the advice I received. Apply to the state school you are in, then apply to private schools all over the place. Try not to apply to too many OOS state schools, as you will find the class size limits are already working against you. MD/DO applications together, and apply to as many schools as you think you can handle financially. It's a harrowing process, but if you want it enough I am sure you will do very well for yourself.

MAJOR CAVEAT:

Here is a critical concern though: Are you a US resident? If you are considered by Admission Committees to be a foreign applicant (which is possible), you may find your list of choices to be drastically reduced. Consequently I would highly suggest ensuring you become naturalized to better your odds, if that is at all possible for you.

There are some serious restrictions as well that may or may not apply. Are you eligible for federal financial student aid? If not, some schools require up front deposit of money into escrow, or similar circumstances.

https://www.aamc.org/students/aspiring/303912/applyasaninternationalapplicant.html

 

[British88]

Thanks for the tips Kvasir! Appreciate it. Nice to hear from a London fan... I do miss the City!

In school applications, I was thinking along the lines you've suggested but what does OOS schools mean? I'm unfamiliar with that term. I am applying to all in-state MD schools, out-of-state MD ones that will accept me, and as many DO schools as possible. As I will only have a year of US education I am quite restricted in applications. Most DO schools accept international qualifications. I have a strong feeling that's where I'm headed!

I am indeed a US resident, as of Dec 2014. I don't know if I'll be naturalized by the time I apply / hope to matriculate. As a legal resident I have (nearly) all the rights and privileges of a citizen, one being FAFSA.

Cheers Mate

 

[Kvasir]

OOS is out-of-state, and I am glad to hear the rest of that! My suggestion would be to look at private medical schools: a lot of the state schools have a cap on out-of-staters that can be anywhere from 20-40%. The odds are generally better that private schools will not be region-specific, so to speak. I liked the DO schools I visited as well, so certainly that's a very good avenue to consider as well.

I wish you the very best of luck! Send me a pm anytime if I can ever be of help!