No college degree, does it matter for residencies?

[HotandCold]

I was wondering if anyone knew if programs necessarily cared if you got into medical school before you finished your college degree. I was a traditional student, straight path to med school with a double major in college. I'm probably one of the youngest people in my class. A few serious life events happened that prevented me from finishing my BS by a few classes, even though I technically have more than enough credits for a degree.

So if anyone has any insight, I'd appreciate it. Taking into account that the applicant has great clinical evals/LORs and a COMLEX in the mid 600's- and can nail an interview. Even maybe explain why the degree couldn't be finished (legit reasons). Applying psych. Thinking of ACGME too. Spanks

Edit: Also, how do I pull off a CV? The first thing in templates I've seen looks like Degrees/education... If anyone has any insight with that, I'd appreciate it too.

Sorry if this is the wrong section

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[GUH]

I'm no expert but on the residency pages I've seen, there has been no mention of a bachelor's degree as a requirement.

 

[dkim186]

um....isn't a BA required to get into med school? you wouldn't be admitted without one.

It is a requirement. unless you went to a 6 year ba/md program.

I have no idea.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

um....isn't a BA required to get into med school? you wouldn't be admitted without one.

It is a requirement. unless you went to a 6 year ba/md program.

I have no idea.

No, it's not a requirement at most medical schools. What is required is your pre-med and a minimum number of units. Because of how competitive medical school is, holding a bachelors has become one of those requirements that isn't technically one.

 

[HotandCold]

um....isn't a BA required to get into med school? you wouldn't be admitted without one.

It is a requirement. unless you went to a 6 year ba/md program.

I have no idea.

There are a couple of students every year at a lot of med schools that get in without a BS or BA. I'm pretty sure you can get admitted at my school, because I'm starting 4th year in 2 months.

 

[hallowmann]

There are a couple of students every year at a lot of med schools that get in without a BS or BA. I'm pretty sure you can get admitted at my school, because I'm starting 4th year in 2 months.

I don't think its a requirement, but it might be a red flag.

Also, I remember hearing something about students who go out of high school to a Carib BS/MD program, where the school wasn't recognized as accredited for the BS, having a tough time getting licensed in certain states. I don't remember which states (probably the same hard ones like CA, TX, NY, FL, etc.).

I don't know if this is a huge deal, I don't know if its something you'll have to explain when applying for licensure, but if I were you, I'd contact (1) the programs you're interested in, and just say that you do not have an undergraduate degree (don't explain why - or at most say, I just didn't finish a couple course requirement), but you will graduate with your medical degree, and see if that'll be a problem & (2) contact the medical licensing board in the state(s) you're interested in and see if not having a BS/BA will be an issue for licensure. It might not be, but its better to know now, because you could still potentially do something about it if it is an issue.

 

[NurWollen]

Don't foreign grads get residencies and licenses without an undergrad degree all the time? People who went to med school in countries where it's a 5-8 year program after high school have a hard time getting residencies here because they are FMGs, not because they didn't go to undergrad. I can't see why a residency or a state licensing body would have a problem with an AMG who didn't get an undergrad degree.

 

[HotandCold]

I don't think its a requirement, but it might be a red flag.

Also, I remember hearing something about students who go out of high school to a Carib BS/MD program, where the school wasn't recognized as accredited for the BS, having a tough time getting licensed in certain states. I don't remember which states (probably the same hard ones like CA, TX, NY, FL, etc.).

I don't know if this is a huge deal, I don't know if its something you'll have to explain when applying for licensure, but if I were you, I'd contact (1) the programs you're interested in, and just say that you do not have an undergraduate degree (don't explain why - or at most say, I just didn't finish a couple course requirement), but you will graduate with your medical degree, and see if that'll be a problem & (2) contact the medical licensing board in the state(s) you're interested in and see if not having a BS/BA will be an issue for licensure. It might not be, but its better to know now, because you could still potentially do something about it if it is an issue.

Enough people without BS/BA degrees have gotten into my school and gotten licenses. I'm not really concerned about that at all. And a combined BS/MD program (where the BS overlaps with the MD) would of course get flack for not being accredited for the BS- their basic sciences are a component of their BS (If I remember correctly). They're also Caribbean grads. I'm a DO student with a really high board score in the Midwest.

Don't foreign grads get residencies and licenses without an undergrad degree all the time? People who went to med school in countries where it's a 5-8 year program after high school have a hard time getting residencies here because they are FMGs, not because they didn't go to undergrad. I can't see why a residency or a state licensing body would have a problem with an AMG who didn't get an undergrad degree.

I'm going to hang my hat on this. But if anyone out there has experience or knows of a US physician applying to a residency without a BS or BA, feel free to chime in. It's less about me being worried about if or not I'll be licensed or if residencies require an undergrad degree (they universally don't)- it's about how to present it (i.e. what do I put on my CV for education?) and if or not I'll face any fallout from it. I appreciate all the comments!

 

[IslandStyle808]

Don't foreign grads get residencies and licenses without an undergrad degree all the time? People who went to med school in countries where it's a 5-8 year program after high school have a hard time getting residencies here because they are FMGs, not because they didn't go to undergrad. I can't see why a residency or a state licensing body would have a problem with an AMG who didn't get an undergrad degree.

Not sure what you mean? An MBBS is a undergrad degree in the country they are from, but is recognized as equivalent to a US medical degree (most people applying to the US hold similar undergraduate degrees, there maybe exceptions and I understand this). It is pretty much the norm that residencies are used to. However, OP's case is not the norm. I think Hallowmann's advice is best in this case.

 

[hallowmann]

Enough people without BS/BA degrees have gotten into my school and gotten licenses. I'm not really concerned about that at all. And a combined BS/MD program (where the BS overlaps with the MD) would of course get flack for not being accredited for the BS- their basic sciences are a component of their BS (If I remember correctly). They're also Caribbean grads. I'm a DO student with a really high board score in the Midwest.




I'm going to hang my hat on this. But if anyone out there has experience or knows of a US physician applying to a residency without a BS or BA, feel free to chime in. It's less about me being worried about if or not I'll be licensed or if residencies require an undergrad degree (they universally don't)- it's about how to present it (i.e. what do I put on my CV for education?) and if or not I'll face any fallout from it. I appreciate all the comments!

US BS/MD or BS/DO programs are accredited for the BS. They are chartered to grant those degrees whether they overlap or not, and as a result are recognized in the US.

Also, foreign medical graduates do have a Bachelor's, it just happens to be in medicine. That degree is recognized based on the school granting it. Again, its not the same issue.

My original statement had to do with some foreign grads running into problems getting licensed in certain states because they went through no such accredited system for their bachelor's. Maybe it's because those people were US IMGs, and they to begin with have more hoops to jump through, but I remember people talking about how they had issues in a certain state (if I remember correctly it was Texas).

Anyway, once you get licensed in one state the process tends to get easier in others. I was just suggesting something relatively simple and definitive that you could do to be sure it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[jqueb29]

All that matters is how you did at the immediate previous level. If you were good enough to get into medical school, do well on your steps, and graduate from med school while passing your boards, I highly doubt a residency will care that you didn't get an undergrad degree. If you're the best candidate for the residency spot, you'll get it, with or without a bachelor's.

 

[preDoGuy24]

Good board scores and decent grades and no one will care. Ask an attending how much they value their (insert whatever undergrad degree) in their everyday practice of medicine. Probably Not a lot.

I think the only concern could be maturity, that you can easily handle by being a professional adult and suppressing any inner weirdo that might be present.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Enough people without BS/BA degrees have gotten into my school and gotten licenses. I'm not really concerned about that at all.

It's less about me being worried about if or not I'll be licensed or if residencies require an undergrad degree (they universally don't)- it's about how to present it (i.e. what do I put on my CV for education?) and if or not I'll face any fallout from it.

I'm seeing a big if/then component to this...

If you know that there are plenty of people who have gotten into your school and gotten licenses...
Then why are you worried about if there will be fallout?
Clearly historical precedent is on your side.

Every time I get a license in a new state (thanks military...), I have to provide a copy of my undergrad transcript. I have also been asked to provide a copy of my undergrad diploma. You would have no trouble providing a transcript, and in place of the diploma you'd send them a 1 paragraph statement saying that you didn't complete an undergrad degree.
The state boards aren't doing it because it's a requirement for licensure; rather they want all that undergrad stuff because the state licensing boards are trying to account for all of your time and to validate what happened during that time. That's all. From an "ok to practice medicine" standpoint, it's the medical school graduation and GME that matters.

And for that matter, residencies don't care either. With lots of people graduating college with degrees in history, ancient latin, underwater basketweaving, etc, the undergrad degree doesn't mean anything.

 

[HotandCold]

I'm seeing a big if/then component to this...

If you know that there are plenty of people who have gotten into your school and gotten licenses...
Then why are you worried about if there will be fallout?
Clearly historical precedent is on your side.

Every time I get a license in a new state (thanks military...), I have to provide a copy of my undergrad transcript. I have also been asked to provide a copy of my undergrad diploma. You would have no trouble providing a transcript, and in place of the diploma you'd send them a 1 paragraph statement saying that you didn't complete an undergrad degree.
The state boards aren't doing it because it's a requirement for licensure; rather they want all that undergrad stuff because the state licensing boards are trying to account for all of your time and to validate what happened during that time. That's all. From an "ok to practice medicine" standpoint, it's the medical school graduation and GME that matters.

And for that matter, residencies don't care either. With lots of people graduating college with degrees in history, ancient latin, underwater basketweaving, etc, the undergrad degree doesn't mean anything.

Thanks for the response. The thing is, while I know historical precedent is on my side as far as becoming a practicing physician- but I don't know if the candidates were bumped down from what they wanted, or if it a non-issue during the application process (i.e. you get licensed, but you don't get your first choice because of you lacking a degree, or you have to scramble/SOAP).

I'm optimistically hoping that with a 90th percentile board score and an all around good application with decent ECs with a solid reason for not having an undergrad degree, it won't even be a conversation piece- especially in applying to a non-competitive field. I guess I was just seeking out people who had similar experiences- to see how they framed it and how they dealt with it if it did come up. Even with precedent, it's still a rare situation. I guess I'll just put the program I was in and something like "Matriculated before completion" next to it. I do appreciate you telling me residencies don't care and giving me a little more insight as a practicing physician.

Any other insight is still by all means welcome.