"Non-competitive" VA??

[Hope4Grad]

Hi!

I am selecting sites to apply for as the Internship application period approaches. Could someone please explain how to identify a "non-competitive" VA? I've seen that term used on a few threads, and I'm not sure what it is based on. A number of the VA sites I've looked at on the APPIC website state that the minimum number of hours (direct, face-to-face) is 300. That is extremely low, and since it is at a VA I am wondering what this means - does it mean the VA strongly emphasizes research or that it is "non-competitive"? In reality, do any VA sites actually take people with such low hours?

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[erg923]

I dont think that's very accurate. Some are more research heavay than others (thus they recruit heavily from big name programs) and some have more applicants that others (due to a varity of factors), but I would say all are competitive.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I agree with erg, particularly with the idea that the minimum number of required face-to-face hours isn't going to be an indicator of overall competitiveness. Rather, it's probably like many other sites--if the VA is in a less-desirable/less-popular geographic region or location, then odds are it's going to receive fewer applications than, say, the SF, Boston, or West LA VAs.

So in that sense, it'll be less-competitive, as you'll be competing against fewer people. You can also look for VAs that take larger numbers of interns, as that can also increase your chances (depending on the number of applicants, of course).

 

[edieb]

Hi!

I am selecting sites to apply for as the Internship application period approaches. Could someone please explain how to identify a "non-competitive" VA? I've seen that term used on a few threads, and I'm not sure what it is based on. A number of the VA sites I've looked at on the APPIC website state that the minimum number of hours (direct, face-to-face) is 300. That is extremely low, and since it is at a VA I am wondering what this means - does it mean the VA strongly emphasizes research or that it is "non-competitive"? In reality, do any VA sites actually take people with such low hours?

Choose ones in cities and locales that are that are less desirable to most people to live (e.g., Detroit, Michigan; states like Wyoming, North Dakota, etc)

 

[WisNeuro]

Detroit is still a decent place to go, the suburbs are great and you can commute in easily. The Detroit VA still gets upwards of 100 apps a year for the intern slots.

*Sorry, as a Michigander, hate to see Detroit misrepresented. It's actually a pretty great city once you get to know it.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

A colleague of mine completed his neuropsych fellowship at Henry Ford hospital and I'm pretty sure it is considered a legit spot for training. He loved the area as well.

 

[cara susanna]

I matched at a VA in a desirable location with 500 F2F hours, which is pretty low compared to most applicants.

I honestly don't think there's such a thing as a non-competitive APA accred VA internship.

 

[CheetahGirl]

In addition to WisNeuro, how could you go wrong with Michigan when talents like Madonna and Marshall Mathers hail from there?

I agree with cara susanna...I don't think a non-competitive, APA accred VA internship site exists...although looking at those sites with many interns (>6) could increase your chances. The minimum hours are just that, minimums, but most likely applicants have many more (ranging from 500-1000).

 

[PsychBoxe]

I applied to several "in-transition VAMCs" (APPIC to APA) in rural, underserved areas and found them to be more competive than some APA accredited VAMCs. I wish the application process was more formulaic, but alas, it is confusing and crazy-making most of the time.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I had more luck with getting interviews with state hospitals than VAs during my internship applications, but I think that the VAs were in more populous regions. I am also thinking that they are more desired slots for a variety of reasons, thus more applicants.

 

[edieb]

I completed my APA-Accredited internship at Wayne State School of Medicine in Detroit and, by looking at the application numbers, it was much less competitive than other med school sites. The city of Detroit was not my favorite but the suburbs were nice

 

[erg923]

I applied to several "in-transition VAMCs" (APPIC to APA) in rural, underserved areas and found them to be more competive than some APA accredited VAMCs. I wish the application process was more formulaic, but alas, it is confusing and crazy-making most of the time.

The reason for this should be obvious.

VAs are desirable training sites and desirable career sites. You can still work in VA if you attend a VA internship that's not yet APA accredited....AND the "taint" of attending an unaccredited internship is less if it was at a VA. If it's not yet APA accredited, people will think the might be able to "sneak in there" before it gets popular and well known. Wrong-because everyone who sees the site thinks this.

 

[PsychBoxe]

I agree. The reason for my post was to point out the unpredictability of the process. For example, some applicants (myself included), received interviews at APA-accred., more "competitive VAs while being rejected from other "in-transition" sites that had a consistently low number of applicants and hour requirements. I assume, like you stated, that many of these sites were likely inundated with applications for these reasons (lower number of applicants, lower required hours).

 

[WisNeuro]

I didn't find it to be all that unpredictable when all was said and done. I had a fairly strong application and got the interviews at all my top sites, but actually didn't get interviews to a few "safety" sites. Looking back, the fit wasn't really all that good and I had applied more for geographic and safety reasons to those sites. Fit at an internship site is just as important as the strength of the application. There's always a reason, we don't randomly choose applications when they come in for interview, a lot of factors go into that.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Same here...I was surprised that I didn't get interviews to my 'safety' sites; yet got interviews to my top choices where the fit was quite apparent (from my CV & those sites' brochures, i.e. descriptions of training goals, populations served, etc.). And you bet I'll target those sames sites for post-docs.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Same here...I was surprised that I didn't get interviews to my 'safety' sites; yet got interviews to my top choices where the fit was quite apparent (from my CV & those sites' brochures, i.e. descriptions of training goals, populations served, etc.). And you bet I'll target those sames sites for post-docs.

I did the same, and eventually ended up landing for fellowship at a site to which I'd applied (but didn't attend) for internship. Heck, I and many other folks I know were outright told, "we hope you'll also consider us for post-doc when that time comes around."

 

[Ollie123]

I'm not certain "non-competitive" is the best description, but some are certainly "less competitive" than others in the sense that you don't need as strong a CV to interview/match there. Someone with zero publications is probably going to struggle to match at Boston Consortium or Palo Alto VA, but might do just fine at other VA sites. Others just get a bazillion applications because of location so you need to do more to stand out.

That said, I think fit trumps this in most cases. I had the same experience as others above where my "safeties" that I was encouraged to add to fill out my list generally didn't interview me. My CV makes it pretty clear I belong at an AMC, so I think those sites knew even if they interviewed me I'd be ranking them low and (understandably) didn't bother. Jon Snow posted about this years ago, but it certainly fits with my experiences - if you are too strong on the research front (regardless of how great your clinical experience might be), it likely narrows your options a bit. I think some VAs certainly fit that framework, so its just a question of the fine line of "Competitive candidate, but not TOO research-y".

 

[oathkeeper]

like others have mentioned, I had a sense of where I'd get interviews though I got a few rejections that had seemed like good fits. I was sort of shocked at where I matched because of its competitiveness- just didn't think the numbers were in my favor...I think Bronx VA had a few slots going into round 2 which was pretty surprising though I don't know if that will necessarily be indicative of competitiveness next year. Looking at the number of interviews granted and number of slots available was helpful...