Nova DPM to DO bridge program

[flyhi]

Just curious...what would be the benefit of this bridge for a podiatrist? It's 3 yrs of DO school followed by a one year internship.

From their website: "After completing the requirements for the D.O. degree and a one-year osteopathic medical internship, the educational requirements will have been met for eligibility to obtain a license to practice osteopathic medicine in states requiring one year of graduate medical education. The program is designed for doctors of podiatric medicine who wish to obtain full medical licenses (i.e., osteopathic medicine) to provide added value to podiatric practice."

For those of you who don't know, pods do 4 yrs of podiatry school and then a 3 year surgical residency.

How many states allow a DO to practice with a one year internship? Are you limited by insurance requirements?

The only reasons I can think this might make sense is to be able to work in an underserved/rural area and have a greater scope of practice? Or, if for some reason a pod cannot perform surgery anymore, they can be a FP?

I don't get it...someone please enlighten me.

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[NurWollen]

Just curious...what would be the benefit of this bridge for a podiatrist? It's 3 yrs of DO school followed by a one year internship.

From their website: "After completing the requirements for the D.O. degree and a one-year osteopathic medical internship, the educational requirements will have been met for eligibility to obtain a license to practice osteopathic medicine in states requiring one year of graduate medical education. The program is designed for doctors of podiatric medicine who wish to obtain full medical licenses (i.e., osteopathic medicine) to provide added value to podiatric practice."

For those of you who don't know, pods do 4 yrs of podiatry school and then a 3 year surgical residency.

How many states allow a DO to practice with a one year internship? Are you limited by insurance requirements?

The only reasons I can think this might make sense is to be able to work in an underserved/rural area and have a greater scope of practice? Or, if for some reason a pod cannot perform surgery anymore, they can be a FP?

I don't get it...someone please enlighten me.

I have heard, but don't know as a fact, that graduates of that program are not qualified to enter the match, although I don't know why they wouldn't be. More likely, DPM's who want to become DO's and quit podiatry just aren't the target demographic of the program.

 

[group_theory]

Just curious...what would be the benefit of this bridge for a podiatrist? It's 3 yrs of DO school followed by a one year internship.

From their website: "After completing the requirements for the D.O. degree and a one-year osteopathic medical internship, the educational requirements will have been met for eligibility to obtain a license to practice osteopathic medicine in states requiring one year of graduate medical education. The program is designed for doctors of podiatric medicine who wish to obtain full medical licenses (i.e., osteopathic medicine) to provide added value to podiatric practice."

For those of you who don't know, pods do 4 yrs of podiatry school and then a 3 year surgical residency.

How many states allow a DO to practice with a one year internship? Are you limited by insurance requirements?

The only reasons I can think this might make sense is to be able to work in an underserved/rural area and have a greater scope of practice? Or, if for some reason a pod cannot perform surgery anymore, they can be a FP?

I don't get it...someone please enlighten me.

Depends on if you will be practicing as a podiatrist or as an osteopathic physician. If you intend on practicing as a physician, then you will need to meet the state's requirement for an unrestricted license to practice medicine. Most state require at least 1 year of ACGME or AOA accredited residency, some require 2 or more. Some states require that PGY1 year be AOA-approved (either through an AOA residency/internship or via Resolution 42 of an ACGME PGY1 year)

If you meet the bare minimum requirement for licensure, but elect not to do a residency, you will not be board eligible. You will be a general practitioner, NOT a family medicine doctor, NOT an internal medicine doctor, NOT a pediatrician, NOT any of the recognized specialty, just a general practitioner. Without being residency trained, and not being board eligible/certified, you will have a hard time getting credentialed by insurance companies or getting hospital priviledges (as an osteopathic physician). Your malpractice insurance premiums might be higher since you will not be board certified/eligible.

As a DPM, you may have completed podiatry school and a surgical residency (in podiatry) - but none of that will count towards your post MEDICAL graduate training.

As for "greater scope of practice" - sure, if you meet the state licensure requirement for the practice of medicine (or osteopathic medicine). But remember, you are still held to the standard of care in the community, so if you just do the bare requirement to get licensure (and don't pursue further training) - you may not realize how dangerous your lack of knowledge/skills are to the public (ask any intern towards the end of their intern year if they are ready to practice independently). Just because your medical license is unrestricted doesn't mean that you should suddenly do craniotomies, or exploratory lapratomies, or ORIF of the femoral head ... yes, your "scope of practice" allows you to, but should you?

 

[SLC]

Edit: Group_Theory beat me to it.

 

[MRSAful Fate]

Podiatrists have a pretty bad residency shortage going on and some of those who want to do surgery aren't able to get into a program, sometimes for years, even with good stats. Hence the appeal for a bridge program.

This should be a cautionary tale for current premeds to keep an eye on GME legislation and the projected residency shortage coming down the line for physicians.

 

[flyhi]

Podiatrists have a pretty bad residency shortage going on and some of those who want to do surgery aren't able to get into a program, sometimes for years, even with good stats. Hence the appeal for a bridge program.

This should be a cautionary tale for current premeds to keep an eye on GME legislation and the projected residency shortage coming down the line for physicians.

It's actually not as bad as some make it sound. Those that don't pass boards first time, or have a really poor academic record may not get a residency. According to this past year's numbers, they are short 73 spots, I believe, 69 of those not having matched from previous years. There were spots that went unfilled last year in the scramble. In other words, the residency programs would rather have no one than what was available.

 

[flyhi]

Thanks, Group Theory. I appreciate the info. I guess my question is still the same then... why is this an attractive bridge program for a podiatrist? Nova advertises that the student goes into a 1 yr internship. Does this mean that a residency is not possible? Or are they just trying to make it seem like an attractive (ie. shorter and less expensive) program than if a DPM decided to completely switch gears and become a DO? They say it is for a podiatrist to add value to their existing practice. I am still trying to figure out what the added value actually means.

What exactly is the difference between a GP and FP?

I would not want a shortcut, which is why I'm confused about this program.....I admittedly do not know the ins and outs of DO post graduate training (lots of acronyms, that I do know), but it seemed odd that you'd only do a 1 yr internship and no residency.

Is this just a revenue source for Nova with no real life applicability?

 

[SLC]

Think about it like this…if you're a podiatrist and a big chunk of your patient base is diabetic, wouldn't you like to be able to change their insulin dose etc. when it became necessary? Thereby saving them a trip to their FP?

I may be looking at it wrong, but those are the types of things I imagine this program is geared toward.

 

[MRSAful Fate]

Glad to hear that things aren't as dire as I've heard, I have a family friend who is a podiatrist and he was telling me horror stories about the current situation over the holidays.

Thanks, Group Theory. I appreciate the info. I guess my question is still the same then... why is this an attractive bridge program for a podiatrist? Nova advertises that the student goes into a 1 yr internship. Does this mean that a residency is not possible? Or are they just trying to make it seem like an attractive (ie. shorter and less expensive) program than if a DPM decided to completely switch gears and become a DO? They say it is for a podiatrist to add value to their existing practice. I am still trying to figure out what the added value actually means.

What exactly is the difference between a GP and FP?

I would not want a shortcut, which is why I'm confused about this program.....I admittedly do not know the ins and outs of DO post graduate training (lots of acronyms, that I do know), but it seemed odd that you'd only do a 1 yr internship and no residency.

Is this just a revenue source for Nova with no real life applicability?

GP = general practitioner, which is someone who has completed the bare minimum educational requirements to practice medicine (a one year internship). FP = family practitioner, someone who has completed a family practice residency (three years). The Nova program will give you a DO degree in three years instead of four, that's the draw. What you do with it - internship, residency for whatever specialty - that's up to you. I think they included the internship part in their advertisement speil because it sounds better than "..and then just another five years till you get that general surgery board certification!"

 

[flyhi]

Glad to hear that things aren't as dire as I've heard, I have a family friend who is a podiatrist and he was telling me horror stories about the current situation over the holidays.

GP = general practitioner, which is someone who has completed the bare minimum educational requirements to practice medicine (a one year internship). FP = family practitioner, someone who has completed a family practice residency (three years). The Nova program will give you a DO degree in three years instead of four, that's the draw. What you do with it - internship, residency for whatever specialty - that's up to you. I think they included the internship part in their advertisement speil because it sounds better than "..and then just another five years till you get that general surgery board certification!"

Yeah, it's not ideal, but if you work hard enough and do well, there is no reason to believe you will not get a residency.

I have to believe the 3 years instead of 4 is because pods first year basically mirrors DO first year.

 

[flyhi]

Think about it like this…if you're a podiatrist and a big chunk of your patient base is diabetic, wouldn't you like to be able to change their insulin dose etc. when it became necessary? Thereby saving them a trip to their FP?

I may be looking at it wrong, but those are the types of things I imagine this program is geared toward.

Yes, while that would be neat, I'm not sure it's worth another 4 years and $$$

That's why I was asked the question initially, because I felt like I was missing something big here.

Based on the responses, it seems like it's just another revenue stream for Nova. Thanks everyone.

 

[group_theory]

Yes, while that would be neat, I'm not sure it's worth another 4 years and $$$

That's why I was asked the question initially, because I felt like I was missing something big here.

Based on the responses, it seems like it's just another revenue stream for Nova. Thanks everyone.

Basically,

if you are a podiatrist (completed a podiatry surgical residency), you don't need the DO degree. *can't imagine a DPM really wanting to follow A1Cs, making sure their patient's eyes are periodically checked, checking for microalbuminuria, watching hypertension, etc. while debating how to handle the wild swings in glucose controls in a noncompliant patient

If you want to be a podiatrist, you don't need the DO degree. If you want a career change, then this Nova program will save you 1 year. You still have to do med school, internship/residency, fellowship (if desire), etc. You basically save 1 year in the entire journey (compare to going to another school).

 

[flyhi]

If you want a career change, then this Nova program will save you 1 year. You still have to do med school, internship/residency, fellowship (if desire), etc. You basically save 1 year in the entire journey (compare to going to another school).

I'm not certain this is true, though. It's my understanding that you just do the 1 year internship, because they mention NOTHING about a residency...only about practicing in states that allow a 1yr PG training. I don't get the sense it's for career-changers,. They specifically mention it's good for pods wanting to enhance their podiatric practice. Which is why I wanted to know how adding a DO could really help a pod?

I'm just not sure if they are leaving out the 'oh, and you'll really need to complete a residency also in order to practice as a DO' or, if because it's a 3/1 program, that a residency is not an option I would think you might be able to get advanced standing anyways, at other DO schools as a DPM.

If the program is targeted towards DPMs that want to change to DO (which is not what their literature implies), then not being able to do a residency would make it a useless program, imo.

I have no interest in the program, I was just researching their MPH and stumbled upon it. But, I am going to call because the curiosity is killing me. I will report back

 

[Thassen54]

If you are an DPM and do this program to get you DO. It will be 3 years with a 1 year internship.

Can you then go on and do you residency say in psychiatry???

 

[BestDoctorEver]

If you are an DPM and do this program to get you DO. It will be 3 years with a 1 year internship.

Can you then go on and do you residency say in psychiatry???

Why would you do that if you wanted to become a psychiatrist in the first place...It's better to go straight to DO school so you can save yourself time and money. It's not like it's impossible to get into DO school so people have to use a back door to get in...I believe that entrance stats to DPM and DO schools are not that far apart.

 

[Mosonik]

I agree, all other details aside, I would be weary of this from a pure financial standpoint. Unless you have the means, 3+4 years of Nova school tuition and loans will be unimaginable.

 

[poopyhead]

I believe that entrance stats to DPM and DO schools are not that far apart.

They are.

 

[Thassen54]

I understand. Another 3 years of school, which out considering residency; would put you back another 150K to 200K. which would just double the amount you owe.

Financial speaking it wouldn't be understandable.

 

[DrMediterranean]

They are.

if you could summarize DO entrance stats as lets say ~3.4 GPA, and ~26 MCAT (i know these are probably not exact, please forgive me)

-----how would you summarize the DPM entrance stats ?

curious as to how far apart they really are... my cousin who is at a podiatry school told me many of his classmates got into DO schools but chose POD schools instead (he said they really wanted MD but couldnt get in). These students who were rejected from MD schools but accepted to DO schools went the POD route for reasons like "I want to do surgery", etc. (obviously unfounded and misinformed, but oh well).

 

[Mbeas]

if you could summarize DO entrance stats as lets say ~3.4 GPA, and ~26 MCAT (i know these are probably not exact, please forgive me)

-----how would you summarize the DPM entrance stats ?

curious as to how far apart they really are... my cousin who is at a podiatry school told me many of his classmates got into DO schools but chose POD schools instead (he said they really wanted MD but couldnt get in). These students who were rejected from MD schools but accepted to DO schools went the POD route for reasons like "I want to do surgery", etc. (obviously unfounded and misinformed, but oh well).

http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistics/PDFs/MatrStats/Matriculant_GPA.pdf

http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistics/PDFs/MatrStats/Matriculant_MCAT.pdf

I saw (unofficially) a mean 3.3 GPA and 22 MCAT from another website. And, based on the official statistics above, I'd say that's pretty accurate.

 

[DrMediterranean]

http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistics/PDFs/MatrStats/Matriculant_GPA.pdf

http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistics/PDFs/MatrStats/Matriculant_MCAT.pdf

I saw (unofficially) a mean 3.3 GPA and 22 MCAT from another website. And, based on the official statistics above, I'd say that's pretty accurate.

21-22~ MCAT is a huge gap . I think some of these students i mentioned in the previous post were grossly misinformed or even more likely lying about their acceptances to DO schools.

 

[questiondoc]

Actually, no. I personally got in to both and chose podiatry exactly for the surgery route. I was more interested in specializing in foot and ankle surgery and care than FP. And yes I know that many DO's do surgery or other specialties but the route is longer by a couple of years. Every Podiatric residency is a three year surgical residency now. The chance of ending up as a family practice doc with no hope of ever seeing the inside of an OR was definitely the deciding factor. I know of at least three in my class who were accepted to Do schools and made the same choice. For a few, after researching podiatry ( not just on sdn) dropped the md/do route in favor of this outright. Some never even condidered it. I agree that the standards should be raised and apparently at least here at my school, it is happening as the applicant number is much higher this year.

 

[DrMediterranean]

Actually, no. I personally got in to both and chose podiatry exactly for the surgery route. I was more interested in specializing in foot and ankle surgery and care than FP. And yes I know that many DO's do surgery or other specialties but the route is longer by a couple of years. Every Podiatric residency is a three year surgical residency now. The chance of ending up as a family practice doc with no hope of ever seeing the inside of an OR was definitely the deciding factor. I know of at least three in my class who were accepted to Do schools and made the same choice.

Same story I've heard from others and I'm not doubting you, but like I said, I said SOME students, not ALL students. Reason being the obvious: not all of them had the stats for DO. 20.7 and 26.5 (2011 numbers) is a huge difference.

 

[GypsyHummus]

21-22~ MCAT is a huge gap . I think some of these students i mentioned in the previous post were grossly misinformed or even more likely lying about their acceptances to DO schools.

I might have some insight to this. Currently I have two cousins in podiatry school.

One of them had no interest in MD/DO school and the other did. It seems that there are two types of podiatrists, ones that actually wanted to go to school for podiatry (keep in mind they can make good money if they have business skillz) and the ones that failed at getting into MD/DO school.

I asked my one cousin why she picked podiatry. She said it was just so she could get the "Doctor" behind her name (DPM). This was the one that failed to get into medical school. The other cousin I have absolutely loves it and I can see her being very happy in the profession.

Apparently podiatry is changing rapidly. The are requiring all school to be able to provide residency for their graduates, which is something they did not do in the past.

I think they GPAs and MCAT scores are right. My cousins had a 3.2ish 22 MCAT. From what it looks like, to get into an MD school you need a minimum 3.6+ and 30>Mcat. For DO it seems you need 3.5+ 27>MCAT. I think pod school is a good profession if you are going into it for the right reasons. They have very good hours.

Keep in mind though debt is still just as bad.

 

[Temperature101]

I might have some insight to this. Currently I have two cousins in podiatry school.

One of them had no interest in MD/DO school and the other did. It seems that there are two types of podiatrists, ones that actually wanted to go to school for podiatry (keep in mind they can make good money if they have business skillz) and the ones that failed at getting into MD/DO school.

I asked my one cousin why she picked podiatry. She said it was just so she could get the "Doctor" behind her name (DPM). This was the one that failed to get into medical school. The other cousin I have absolutely loves it and I can see her being very happy in the profession.

Apparently podiatry is changing rapidly. The are requiring all school to be able to provide residency for their graduates, which is something they did not do in the past.

I think they GPAs and MCAT scores are right. My cousins had a 3.2ish 22 MCAT. From what it looks like, to get into an MD school you need a minimum 3.6+ and 30>Mcat. For DO it seems you need 3.5+ 27>MCAT. I think pod school is a good profession if you are going into it for the right reasons. They have very good hours.

Keep in mind though debt is still just as bad.

So POD school is the back door for people who wanna have doctor inserted in their last name...Amazing someone would do that for such superflous reason.

 

[questiondoc]

Trust me, the ones with the lower stats or were here for the wrong reasons are no longer with us.

 

[DrMediterranean]

Trust me, the ones with the lower stats or were here for the wrong reasons are no longer with us.

I think you are taking this way to personally. I'm sure everyone knows that there are plenty of people who WANT to go into podiatry (my cousin was genuinely one of them). But to argue that POD school isn't a backdoor for some people is being disingenuous in the same way when people say DO school isn't a backdoor for people who can't get into MD schools.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I think you are taking this way to personally. I'm sure everyone knows that there are plenty of people who WANT to go into podiatry (my cousin was genuinely one of them). But to argue that POD school isn't a backdoor for some people is being disingenuous in the same way when people say DO school isn't a backdoor for people who can't get into MD schools.

True.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Actually, no. I personally got in to both and chose podiatry exactly for the surgery route. I was more interested in specializing in foot and ankle surgery and care than FP. And yes I know that many DO's do surgery or other specialties but the route is longer by a couple of years. Every Podiatric residency is a three year surgical residency now. The chance of ending up as a family practice doc with no hope of ever seeing the inside of an OR was definitely the deciding factor. I know of at least three in my class who were accepted to Do schools and made the same choice. For a few, after researching podiatry ( not just on sdn) dropped the md/do route in favor of this outright. Some never even condidered it. I agree that the standards should be raised and apparently at least here at my school, it is happening as the applicant number is much higher this year.

Yes they should.

I think Pod is a good profession. And if you are happy with it, then by all means run with it.

The hours can certainly be much kinder for pods in surgery than MD or DOs in surgery. Plus the pay isnt terrible either

 

[poopyhead]

21-22~ MCAT is a huge gap . I think some of these students i mentioned in the previous post were grossly misinformed or even more likely lying about their acceptances to DO schools.

Not to mention, there aren't any new DPM schools being opened to really drag down their averages nor region specific schools like WVSOM, PNWU, and PCSOM.

 

[poopyhead]

I think you are taking this way to personally. I'm sure everyone knows that there are plenty of people who WANT to go into podiatry (my cousin was genuinely one of them). But to argue that POD school isn't a backdoor for some people is being disingenuous in the same way when people say DO school isn't a backdoor for people who can't get into MD schools.

 

[questiondoc]

I actually never argued it wasn't a back door for some. And I'm really not invested in this discussion to take it personally. But realize that many of those people didn't make it either. You have to be really dedicated to make it through and if it's not really what you wanted, or you think getting the DPM is going to make you a pseudo DO/MD you are going to be dissatisfied. What is does do is make you a specialist in the foot and ankle.

 

[newfeet]

Im a first year podiatry resident, I'm seriously thinking about applying to this program. Is it worth doing?

 

[Windom Earle]

Is this program now defunct?