Now that you look back...research in UGRAD vs. MED SCHOOL

[Transformers]

Hey guys,

I had a very important question as an undergrad planning his 2009 summer. I am asking this having done extensive research into residency program qualifications and my discussions with people in competitive residencies.

Well, currently I have been doing research for the past 3 years at my univeristiy (top 20 USNEWS) and the research has been fulfilling and if I continue this summer (during the process of submitting my app), there is a chance (not sure) that I may get published. So I am in the dilemma of committing to this OR:

I am considering a very tough residency (dermatology) in the future as one of my options...I know I can be criticized for planning early and making up my decision, and of course I realize the competitiveness. I am currently in the range of shooting for a top 10 med school so I am also aiming with the hopes of shooting for a top residency as well. Anyways, my friend who is derm residency at Mayo Med School emphasized to me that the MOST important thing about this residency is having connections + research + people who get to know you well to write excellent reccs...his point was that sure there is the AOA honor or the 240+ USMLE score, but there is a threshold in the sense that he felt that it was more important to build his research and connections than seeking a USMLE score above a 240 because these other factors become increasingly important. With that being said, I have wonderful opportunities to do clinical derm research at Mayo or Michigan Med and other schools this summer. I probably won't get published but I may have a good chance of doing a poster by the end of the summer. More importantly, I can take my first step through the door as I hope to continue doing research with this professor in the future.

Based on this, would you recommend building my clinical research background early before everything gets too hectic in med school or continue with my current research?

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[IHeartNerds]

Not to deflate you too much, but really in undergrad, there is nothing you can do to make yourself more competitive for residency.

If you want to get an in, and do some derm research, that's fine, but don't consider it a step towards residency. Just consider it something interesting to do. And hey, if you end up a dermatologist in twenty years, getting to know more people in the profession early on won't hurt.

Also, let's qualify your statement. Derm is a hard residency to get into. I would not consider it a hard residency. (flame on, derm-lovers.)

 

[SomeDoc]

Not to deflate you too much, but really in undergrad, there is nothing you can do to make yourself more competitive for residency.

This is not necessarily true. If publications are achieved, or poster presentations at scientific seminars are performed as an undergrad, or are achieved/done post undergrad, prior to the start of medical school, it will be a positive in terms of making one's residency application portfolio more competitive.

 

[MrBurns10]

I think you'd be best served sticking with your research and trying to get published...any publications you achieve will stick with you when you apply to residency. Then, you can do derm research and make connections in your summer between M1 and M2.

 

[45408]

This is not necessarily true. If publications are achieved, or poster presentations at scientific seminars are performed as an undergrad, or are achieved/done post undergrad, prior to the start of medical school, it will be a positive in terms of making one's residency application portfolio more competitive.

Word. Publications go on your CV forever.

 

[atomi]

I am considering a very tough residency (dermatology) in the future as one of my options...I know I can be criticized for planning early and making up my decision

Why exactly do you want to be a dermatologist? It sounds like you are just wanting to do stuff to be top of the top. That's a pretty terrible reason to do anything. You say you know that derm is competitive, but do you understand why? Derm residency is competitive because there are very few slots for it, not because it has a rocket science level of prerequisite intellectual ability. One thing that you need to be aware of...I've been to many medical school interviews where interviewers have openly told me that they won't recommend anyone for admission who applies straight out of undergrad with an explicit desire to do a specific specialty, especially those with 'interests' in competitive and ultra-specific sub-specialties. This topic always came up in my interviews because it pissed me off equally as much. It's a huge red flag. But it sounds like you are super confident you will get into a 'top' school, so don't let me dissuade you. And you should think about why you really want to be a dermatologist. Have you always dreamed of popping pimples?

</flame>

 

[Transformers]

Thanks for your replies. Besides derm, in general, because I don't want to incite any discussion pertaining to my reasons of why I want to get into a particular specialty, what advice would you recommend....should I stick with ugrad research or start research ahead, derm or whatever specialty...I guess I hope you guys can gear your advice from a general angle.

Thanks.

 

[IHeartNerds]

Word. Publications go on your CV forever.

*shrug* I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that there are four or five or six things a residency director will look at before publications (especially if you weren't first author) that came out five years before you applied to their program. Feel free to disagree, since none of us actually know.

Also, since one must get into med school before becoming a dermatologist (god only knows why ), I would argue that basic science pubs are more valuable than clinical research for the admissions process. Sure, it's great to look interested in medicine, but adcoms know that it is much, much harder to get a good publication in basic science research than in clinical medicine.

 

[silas2642]

Hey guys,

I had a very important question as an undergrad planning his 2009 summer. I am asking this having done extensive research into residency program qualifications and my discussions with people in competitive residencies.

Well, currently I have been doing research for the past 3 years at my univeristiy (top 20 USNEWS) and the research has been fulfilling and if I continue this summer (during the process of submitting my app), there is a chance (not sure) that I may get published. So I am in the dilemma of committing to this OR:

I am considering a very tough residency (dermatology) in the future as one of my options...I know I can be criticized for planning early and making up my decision, and of course I realize the competitiveness. I am currently in the range of shooting for a top 10 med school so I am also aiming with the hopes of shooting for a top residency as well. Anyways, my friend who is derm residency at Mayo Med School emphasized to me that the MOST important thing about this residency is having connections + research + people who get to know you well to write excellent reccs...his point was that sure there is the AOA honor or the 240+ USMLE score, but there is a threshold in the sense that he felt that it was more important to build his research and connections than seeking a USMLE score above a 240 because these other factors become increasingly important. With that being said, I have wonderful opportunities to do clinical derm research at Mayo or Michigan Med and other schools this summer. I probably won't get published but I may have a good chance of doing a poster by the end of the summer. More importantly, I can take my first step through the door as I hope to continue doing research with this professor in the future.

Based on this, would you recommend building my clinical research background early before everything gets too hectic in med school or continue with my current research?

Sooooo nothing you do now is going to affect your chances for residency. Sorry. I'd say take a chill pill and try and relax a little bit because this whole thing is a marathon and not a sprint. Besides, you're probably going to change your mind as to what specialty you're going to want to enter anyway after about 5 minutes into your first year.

 

[bananamed]

Straight from the mouth of my PD:

"I don't care what research you did before med school. I don't even care what research you do in med school. If you don't take time off, it's most likely not meaningful research."

 

[SomeDoc]

Straight from the mouth of my PD:

"I don't care what research you did before med school. I don't even care what research you do in med school. If you don't take time off, it's most likely not meaningful research."

Re: Bold. I am going to say that this PD does not know what he's talking about.

 

[sestamibi]

Re: Bold. I am going to say that this PD does not know what he's talking about.

Disagree. My PD echoes that sentiment. She cuts through the BS and knows that research is only done as a resume-stuffer. Hence, it's meaningless. Take some time off like a year or for those inclined, 4 years for a PhD, and it shows you have serious interest in investigative dermatology. After all, what can you accomplish during medical school? Stop by every so often to pipette some fluids? Analyze some clinical data? That's not meaningful.

 

[atomi]

Besides, you're probably going to change your mind as to what specialty you're going to want to enter anyway after about 5 minutes into your first year.

No way. He's dead set on being a dermatologist. As a top undergrad, he has the top knowledge and experience with dermatology to know this is exactly what he wants to do. He knows the only way to get into this top field is to go to a top school and do top research top top top top top top top did I say top?

 

[SomeDoc]

Edit: I understand where you guys are coming from. I was referring to the act of scientific inquiry, which is not meaningless. Apologies for the confusion.

 

[Long Dong]

Hey guys,

I had a very important question as an undergrad planning his 2009 summer. I am asking this having done extensive research into residency program qualifications and my discussions with people in competitive residencies.

Well, currently I have been doing research for the past 3 years at my univeristiy (top 20 USNEWS) and the research has been fulfilling and if I continue this summer (during the process of submitting my app), there is a chance (not sure) that I may get published. So I am in the dilemma of committing to this OR:

I am considering a very tough residency (dermatology) in the future as one of my options...I know I can be criticized for planning early and making up my decision, and of course I realize the competitiveness. I am currently in the range of shooting for a top 10 med school so I am also aiming with the hopes of shooting for a top residency as well. Anyways, my friend who is derm residency at Mayo Med School emphasized to me that the MOST important thing about this residency is having connections + research + people who get to know you well to write excellent reccs...his point was that sure there is the AOA honor or the 240+ USMLE score, but there is a threshold in the sense that he felt that it was more important to build his research and connections than seeking a USMLE score above a 240 because these other factors become increasingly important. With that being said, I have wonderful opportunities to do clinical derm research at Mayo or Michigan Med and other schools this summer. I probably won't get published but I may have a good chance of doing a poster by the end of the summer. More importantly, I can take my first step through the door as I hope to continue doing research with this professor in the future.

Based on this, would you recommend building my clinical research background early before everything gets too hectic in med school or continue with my current research?

Continue with your current research and get published. Once in med school there will be plenty of time to, if you start early which it seems like you intend to do, build connections and publish as a med student as well. I also agree with your friend who is a resident at mayo. Actually you should always listen to those guy/gals advice from there, they are some good peeps and would never steer you wrong.

 

[Substance]

The unfortunate thing is that very few people make it into med school saying they want to be a dermatologists during their interviews and on their personal statements.

There exists a heavy stigma towards dermatologists from many others in the profession. A lot of doctors don't consider dermatologists real physicians, whether that is because of stress, envy, or something else on the part of the other doctors is anyone's guess.

I'm sure if such a doctor interviewed you and read your app, he'd red flag the crap out of it.

 

[Mariah246]

I'm sure if such a doctor interviewed you and read your app, he'd red flag the crap out of it.

Sad, but true. I think a big part of it has to do with actual exposure to the field. How many pre-med students have meaningful exposure to dermatology?

Beyond the acne visits?

How many see the dermpath side of it? The MOHS side of it? The research side of it?

I'm sure you could impress a lot of people with a meaningful answer to "Why derm?" as a pre-med. But I would agree the risk is significantly greater. It's hard enough to answer "Why medicine?" as a pre-med.