NPs can now do dermatology residencies

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JaggerPlate said:
^^

For what it's worth, I was planning on emailing ...

1. AMA
2. AAD
3. AOA (American Osteopathic Association)
4. AOCD (American Osteopathic College of Dermatology)

before Monday. Anyone who wants to do the same, it's a good start. The AOA had a link to the story on their blog page under 'health news' but not a single comment about their stance on it. Lame.
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Make sure to email your state medical associations. (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/the-federation-medicine/state-medical-society-websites.shtml). It has been my experience that many of the 'local' practicing docs have no idea this is even happening. I imagine that it will be easier to effect meaningful change at the state level -- which includes pushing for legislation restricting the use of the title 'Doctor' in clinical settings - (some states limit it to DDS/DPM/MD/DO) and bringing NPs/DNPs under the umbrella of the state medical boards.
 
nebrfan said:
Make sure to email your state medical associations. (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/abo...medicine/state-medical-society-websites.shtml). It has been my experience that many of the 'local' practicing docs have no idea this is even happening. I imagine that it will be easier to effect meaningful change at the state level -- which includes pushing for legislation restricting the use of the title 'Doctor' in clinical settings - (some states limit it to DDS/DPM/MD/DO) and bringing NPs/DNPs under the umbrella of the state medical boards.
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Cool, I will.
 
I clicked on the video and looked at the powerpoint presentation in PDF: http://health.usf.edu/nocms/nursing/AdmissionsPrograms/dnp_concentrations_derm.html

It's not the AAD (American Academy of Dermatology), it's the AADN (American Association of Dermatology Nursing). One letter makes ALL the difference in the world. Scary how much the video makes it seem like an advertisement for residency programs for physicians.
 
DermViser said:
I clicked on the video and looked at the powerpoint presentation in PDF: http://health.usf.edu/nocms/nursing/AdmissionsPrograms/dnp_concentrations_derm.html

It's not the AAD (American Academy of Dermatology), it's the AADN (American Association of Dermatology Nursing). One letter makes ALL the difference in the world. Scary how much the video makes it seem like an advertisement for residency programs for physicians.
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Wow she sucks at speaking. Look how many cuts they had to make! Maybe it was because she kept cracking up laughing!
 
DermViser said:
I clicked on the video and looked at the powerpoint presentation in PDF: http://health.usf.edu/nocms/nursing/AdmissionsPrograms/dnp_concentrations_derm.html

It's not the AAD (American Academy of Dermatology), it's the AADN (American Association of Dermatology Nursing). One letter makes ALL the difference in the world. Scary how much the video makes it seem like an advertisement for residency programs for physicians.
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Wow, I think I just had a small stroke.

Earlier in one of the threads, I was being sarcastic and naming the board the nurses would claim to be BC in derm under ... I wasn't far off. It's not fun when the off the wall, joke comments start to become reality.

Regardless, my goal is to have all the emails sent out by Saturday. I'll gladly share the letters with any one who would like to straight up use it, take pieces of it, modify it, etc.
 
JaggerPlate, make a generic letter and post it and hopefully everyone and anyone will use it and send it from their own personal email accounts. I'm also going to start working on a letter.

Has anyone started an online petition where we can sign up?
 
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exPCM said:
Why is the law job market bad? Big factor: Overproduction of grads.
At least 10 new law schools are on the drawing board around the country, in addition to the 200 already accredited by the ABA. At the same time, the demand for legal services has dropped during the economic recession, prompting hundreds of firms to lay off lawyers, cut salaries, and delay the start dates of new associates. As law schools continue to churn out graduates, the resulting bottleneck could make the competition for jobs even more fierce. And some legal experts predict that even when they do resume hiring, many big firms won't be able to continue paying new associates the salaries of $120,000 or more that students had counted on to whittle down their debt.
But that sobering news hasn't stopped students from flocking to law schools, which saw the number of applicants rise 4.3 percent for this fall, according to the ABA. ...
http://www.professorbainbridge.com/professorbainbridgecom/2009/07/is-law-a-mature-industry.html
Why is the MBA job market bad? Big factor: Overproduction of grads and outsourcing of corporate accounting and finance work overseas.
http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/8134953?f=related
Why is the engineering job market bad? Outsourcing of a lot of work and insourcing of H1-B visa grads so as to not hire Americans.
Teaching companies to not hire Americans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/ibm-fires-500-us-staff-across-the-board/586389/
Here is a snapshot of IBM's US headcount:
2005 133,789
2006 127,000
2007 121,000
2008 115,000
2009 105,000
2010 98,000 estimate
These are all good paying jobs that can support a family and pay taxes.
Today, 75% of the total headcount is overseas. The overseas revenue is 65%. The company reported record profits last year. IBM decided to stop reporting their US headcount this year.

If you don't think that the ramping up of DNP production does not have the potential to hurt physician employment prospects you are sadly mistaken.

Already nurses have taken a big hit:
http://www.realityrn.com/visitor-topics/new-grad-nurse-job-struggle/1350/

Physicians are seeing some effects too: http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/01/26/bisb0126.htm
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I agree with all of your reasons for why those professions are hurting. Sure, the DNP movement can eventually hurt physicians. I just don't think it will be anytime soon with the incredible shortage of providers and the millions of people who will have insurance in a few years. I understand why everyone wants to be politically active with this. I just can't be hypocritical with myself. If DNP's can help the healthcare industry economically then I'm not going to fight it (although wanting full medicare reimbursements kinda defeats their purpose?---and don't most doctors hate medicare to begin with). Even if I end up in FM (which is what made me want to be a doctor), I know the jobs will still be there. Sure, maybe 20, 30 years from now there will be no physicians at all going into primary care. But the studies show that even a dramatic increase in DNP's won't solve the shortage (see BD's post in the FM forum, I'm too lazy to tag it). For the specialties, I have not seen any studies done that predict future employment issues. And yes, maybe the DNP's will drive our salaries down eventually, who knows. If they find their niche then so be it, I'm not going to bitch to the medical leaders and government to help me out so I can keep my salary and prestige where it's at. Because let's face it, that's where most people here are coming from (which is understandable, human nature).

If doctors are that much better than DNP's, or PAs, DC's, or even Naturopathic doctors then prove it. You get a lot of free market, libertarian sentiment on these forums yet the moment your job prospects become a tad hazy, everyone looks to the leaders in charge. Make your own way and separate yourself from the rest. This goes for any career.
 
Zap Rowsdower said:
I agree with all of your reasons for why those professions are hurting. Sure, the DNP movement can eventually hurt physicians. I just don't think it will be anytime soon with the incredible shortage of providers and the millions of people who will have insurance in a few years. I understand why everyone wants to be politically active with this. I just can't be hypocritical with myself. If DNP's can help the healthcare industry economically then I'm not going to fight it (although wanting full medicare reimbursements kinda defeats their purpose?---and don't most doctors hate medicare to begin with). Even if I end up in FM (which is what made me want to be a doctor), I know the jobs will still be there. Sure, maybe 20, 30 years from now there will be no physicians at all going into primary care. But the studies show that even a dramatic increase in DNP's won't solve the shortage (see BD's post in the FM forum, I'm too lazy to tag it). For the specialties, I have not seen any studies done that predict future employment issues. And yes, maybe the DNP's will drive our salaries down eventually, who knows. If they find their niche then so be it, I'm not going to bitch to the medical leaders and government to help me out so I can keep my salary and prestige where it's at. Because let's face it, that's where most people here are coming from (which is understandable, human nature).

If doctors are that much better than DNP's, or PAs, DC's, or even Naturopathic doctors then prove it. You get a lot of free market, libertarian sentiment on these forums yet the moment your job prospects become a tad hazy, everyone looks to the leaders in charge. Make your own way and separate yourself from the rest. This goes for any career.
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Practicing outside your scope of practice and representing yourself as "the same as a doctor, but better!" is not helping medicine economically. It's leveraging media and public fears about "shortages" to practice medicine without proper training and without supervision. This IS BAD.
 
ArsenalEPL4Life said:
JaggerPlate, make a generic letter and post it and hopefully everyone and anyone will use it and send it from their own personal email accounts. I'm also going to start working on a letter.

Has anyone started an online petition where we can sign up?
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Im going to make my own too, but I will sign and send any letter that's share here!!
 
I posted the article ( the one shared in another topic about RN's saying they are like doctors except for the pay) in my facebook account, many of my non-medical friends were suprise about this.

If you have a facebook account use it for this purpose!!
 
JaggerPlate said:
Wow, I think I just had a small stroke.

Earlier in one of the threads, I was being sarcastic and naming the board the nurses would claim to be BC in derm under ... I wasn't far off. It's not fun when the off the wall, joke comments start to become reality.

Regardless, my goal is to have all the emails sent out by Saturday. I'll gladly share the letters with any one who would like to straight up use it, take pieces of it, modify it, etc.
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JaggerPlate, that would be most excellent.

If you don't mind - I will post your letters in the SDN group and link it back to this thread. By doing this we can keep a pseudo-archive of this effort and any future efforts to serve as a reference point for others who want to get involved.

Are you going to post the letters on this thread or should we send you our email address?
 
So, I just opened up their powerpoint about the program:

BAM, the first thing that hits me on the opening slide:
Debra Shelby, DNP, ARNP, RNFA, CNOR, DNC

hahahaaha, I LOVE how many letters some of these people put behind their name
 
mig26x said:
Im going to make my own too, but I will sign and send any letter that's share here!!
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If you make your own and would like to share it that would be great.
This way we can reference a variety of samples. :)
 
FutureDoc4 said:
So, I just opened up their powerpoint about the program:

BAM, the first thing that hits me on the opening slide:
Debra Shelby, DNP, ARNP, RNFA, CNOR, DNC

hahahaaha, I LOVE how many letters some of these people put behind their name
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yep, they love their letters!! But whatever rocks their boat!!
 
FutureDoc4 said:
So, I just opened up their powerpoint about the program:

BAM, the first thing that hits me on the opening slide:
Debra Shelby, DNP, ARNP, RNFA, CNOR, DNC

hahahaaha, I LOVE how many letters some of these people put behind their name
Click to expand...

The number of acronyms following a nurse's name is usually inversely related to their practical knowledge. ;)

Sincerely,
Blue Dog, MD, FAAFP, ROFL, LOL, OMG, WTF
:D
 
FlowRate said:
Wow she sucks at speaking. Look how many cuts they had to make! Maybe it was because she kept cracking up laughing!
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I noticed the number of cuts they had to make as well. Also, you can see how many times she tries to look down or her eyes darting in reading the script in front of her.
 
OH my God, I just wet my pants. I didn't realize there was a video by "Dr" Debra Shelby talking about this derm wannabe program. For a split second when she introduced herself as "Dr." so and so of the blah blah Derm Residency Program, I actually thought she was the USF Derm PD. I was initially outraged at how a MD could be taking part in such a thing. But by the second second in her rehearsed speech, I could smell out the "noctor" that she really was. I can't believe NP's now have the audacity to refer to themselves as "doctor" with such a straight face! The term should be only reserved for those who have graduated from a medical school in a clinical setting for the lay public's sake. Here's more on "Dr" Debra Shelby DNP, ARNP, RNFA, CNOR, DNC (What the hell is a CeeNore?)

http://www.ecdss.com/debra_shelby.php
 
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The quality of that video probably approximates the quality of the overall program.
 
My final thoughts on this matter ==>

062308-dermatological-procedures-botox.jpg
 
medicinesux said:
OH my God, I just wet my pants. I didn't realize their was a video by "Dr" Debra Shelby talking about this derm wannabe program. For a split second when she introduced herself as "Dr." so and so of the blah blah Derm Residency Program, I actually thought she was the USF Derm PD. I was initially outraged at how a MD could be taking part in such a thing. But by the second second in her rehearsed speech, I could smell out the "noctor" that she really was. I can't believe NP's now have the audacity to refer to themselves as "doctor" in a clinical setting like this! The term should be only reserved for those have graduated from a medical school in a clinical setting for the lay public's sake. Here's more on "Dr" Debra Shelby DNP, ARNP, RNFA, CNOR, DNC (What the hell is a CeeNore?)

http://www.ecdss.com/debra_shelby.php
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Can we officially make "noctor" the word for this situation?? I think it's perfect.

And I haven't watched the video ... I don't think I can.
 
JaggerPlate said:
Can we officially make "noctor" the word for this situation?? I think it's perfect.

And I haven't watched the video ... I don't think I can.
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maybe you shouldn't. It is truly worse than anything I was duped into watching over on ogrish or liveleak.
 
medicinesux said:
OH my God, I just wet my pants. I didn't realize their was a video by "Dr" Debra Shelby talking about this derm wannabe program. For a split second when she introduced herself as "Dr." so and so of the blah blah Derm Residency Program, I actually thought she was the USF Derm PD. I was initially outraged at how a MD could be taking part in such a thing. But by the second second in her rehearsed speech, I could smell out the "noctor" that she really was. I can't believe NP's now have the audacity to refer to themselves as "doctor" in a clinical setting like this! The term should be only reserved for those have graduated from a medical school in a clinical setting for the lay public's sake. Here's more on "Dr" Debra Shelby DNP, ARNP, RNFA, CNOR, DNC (What the hell is a CeeNore?)

http://www.ecdss.com/debra_shelby.php
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I'll be willing to bet money that the USF Dermatology Residency (sad that I have to state this but the PHYSICIAN dermatology residency) program director knows absolutely nothing about this "other" dermatology residency program.

What's ironic is that she states, "She coordinated the development of the nation’s first Doctorate of Nursing Practice (DNP) Dermatology Residency at the University of South Florida and in 2008 she became the first resident to complete the program." So it's like she was Dermatology homeschooled (Cue Mean Girls clip).

Love the parts in her bio where it says, "In 2000 Dr. Shelby earned a Master of Science in Nursing from Barry University. After graduation she practiced dermatology prior to joining...." as well as "She is board certified in dermatology (DNC)", so even if patients asks if she is board certified in dermatology, she can exclaim SURE!!! Another hoot: "throughout her career she has presented nationally, published, served as a contributing editor, and has been involved in clinical research." I think we just may have the next non-physician female "Dr. Thomas Fitzpatrick" on our hands.
 
Here is a transcript of what "Dr." Debra Shelby says in the video:

Hello my name is Dr. Debra Shelby and I am the director of the USF dermatology residency program. The first doctoral dermatology residency program in the country. I am pleased to present to you this innovative program. This program encompasses both general dermatology and surgical dermatology for the advanced practice nurse. Throughout this program you will be training with and mentored by some of the leading dermatology experts in the country as well as participating in one of the Florida's premier cancer institutions. This program has been recognized by the Dermatology Nursing Association as a standard for dermatology education for the advanced practice nurse. I invite you to review the powerpoint presentation of the program which will provide you information needed for your application and an overview of the didactic and clinical program. Please contact me or our student services department for further information.

By all means, please contact them for further information: USF College of Nursing
 
medicinesux said:
Here's more on "Dr" Debra Shelby DNP, ARNP, RNFA, CNOR, DNC (What the hell is a CeeNore?)

http://www.ecdss.com/debra_shelby.php
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CNOR, http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/CNOR

Take your pick:
CNOR - Certified Nurse Operating Room
CNOR - Canadian Northern Railway Company
CNOR - Command Not Operationally Ready

I'm tempted to think it's the last one. :laugh:

The others:

DNP = http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/DNP

ARNP = http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ARNP

RNFA = http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/RNFA

DNC = http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/DNC
 
So, we have "Did Not Play," "A Really Nice Person," "Really Never Finished Anything," "Certainly Not Operationally Ready," and "Did Not Compete."

Can't argue with that. ;)
 
DermViser said:
I'll be willing to bet money that the USF Dermatology Residency (sad that I have to state this but the PHYSICIAN dermatology residency) program director knows absolutely nothing about this "other" dermatology residency program.

What's ironic is that she states, "She coordinated the development of the nation’s first Doctorate of Nursing Practice (DNP) Dermatology Residency at the University of South Florida and in 2008 she became the first resident to complete the program." So it's like she was Dermatology homeschooled (Cue Mean Girls clip).

Love the parts in her bio where it says, "In 2000 Dr. Shelby earned a Master of Science in Nursing from Barry University. After graduation she practiced dermatology prior to joining...." as well as "She is board certified in dermatology (DNC)", so even if patients asks if she is board certified in dermatology, she can exclaim SURE!!! Another hoot: "throughout her career she has presented nationally, published, served as a contributing editor, and has been involved in clinical research." I think we just may have the next non-physician female "Dr. Thomas Fitzpatrick" on our hands.
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Yup, I said the same thing earlier. This is what the ad in the yellow pages/the shingle on the front door will say:

Dr. Noctor, Board Certified Dermatologist
 
Their organization is called Dermatology Nurses' Association (DNA)
The alphabets they hand out are:
DNC (Dermatology Nurse Certified)
DCNP (Dermatology Certified Nurse Practitioner)

.. . Finally, for our Derm colleagues, a sparkling gem:
Press Room / DNA in the News

DNA widens efforts to shine media spotlight on members and the dermatology nursing specialty.

You know the value of your work as a dermatology nurse. Now is the time to show it to the rest of the world.

DNA has an ongoing public relations program designed to get dermatology nurses in the news and gain exposure for the association. To do this, DNA National Office staff members contact reporters and editors in nursing, health care, and lay media, encouraging them to spotlight the role of dermatology nurses and the importance of this ever-changing specialty. DNA also sends press releases about the association’s news and events to selected media lists.

News exposure helps fulfill one of the association’s strategic goals: “DNA and its members will be recognized and respected as experts in the field of dermatologic nursing care.”

Getting in the news is always a challenge, and we’re asking you to help. Let us know if you have an idea to gain exposure for DNA, a DNA member, or dermatology nursing in general. You can contact Linda Woody ([email protected]; 856-439-0500). Linda will provide media training for you, and materials about DNA and dermatology nursing for the reporter. Also, please let Linda know if someone from the media calls you for an interview.

Your next question is most likely “What is newsworthy?” The foremost thing reporters and editors look for is something that affects many people. Some examples: a program to educate the public about skin cancer prevention; a new treatment for psoriasis; results of a research study on burns from laser hair removal; the effects of the iPledge program on Accutane patients. The media also looks for things that are unique, timely, and emotionally compelling.

DNA and its members have tremendous potential for media exposure, and there is increasing media interest in the specialty, according to DNA Past President Melodie Young, MSN, RN, A/GNP. She added that DNA’s growing library of news clips “demonstrates the value of our members to public information sources and will provide more opportunities for dermatology nurses to speak as experts in the field.”

With today's nursing shortage, it has become essential to promote dermatology nursing practice, and nursing in general. Historically, nurses have been media shy and do not consider educating the public about nurses as part of their practice, but it is. It is up to you to help enlighten the world about what dermatology nurses do, as well as the importance of your role.
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:whoa:
 
Zap Rowsdower said:
If doctors are that much better than DNP's, or PAs, DC's, or even Naturopathic doctors then prove it. You get a lot of free market, libertarian sentiment on these forums yet the moment your job prospects become a tad hazy, everyone looks to the leaders in charge. Make your own way and separate yourself from the rest. This goes for any career.
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I'm worried it would be hard to "prove it" to patients when DNP's are calling themselves "board certified doctors" who have "completed a residency". Patients might not realize non-MD's can promote themselves this way, making it even more confusing to shop around for the best care, not to mention opening up the possibility of being misdiagnosed/mismanaged without even realizing they're not receiving care from an actual physician. I don't mind DNP's filling in gaps in the system, but they should not be misrepresenting their training.
 
I think they're overreaching too quickly. They should have settled for trying to be independent PCPs and then once they were established as "noctor attendings" tried to creep into the specialties. Once word gets out to the general physician community that basically they're coming after every single field except maybe neurosurgery (...maybe), there's going to be a big backlash. If they get shunned by physicians there's no way they can be effective, there's just not enough of them.

The key will be to promote PAs as the alternative at all times because their scope of practice is under the board of medicine. Plus the average PA I've met is generally smarter than the average NP, so it's not like it should be a hard sell. Also it's long overdue for some sort of legislation to mandate that "board certified" has to refer to an ABMS-approved board. That would be win/win for cracking down on noctors and people who use those degree mill boards to claim BC status.
 
I know this is a huge multi-quote... bear with me! Here's what I posted in the Pre-Med forums about the exact same topic!

FlowRate said:
As much as I love nurses, this is an interesting point that reminds me of academic nurses. Anyone ever notice how some of them list EVERY. SINGLE. QUALIFICATION. they can after their name in emails/correspondence/desk plackards, etc.? These include not only BSN, RN, DNP, etc. but also stuff that essentially means "Took CPR training" "took end of life training" "attended an expensive conference." There is a serious culture of one-upmanship and pride in some areas of nursing. Most nurses I know personally, however, are great people. I think it's the aforementioned faction that is causing all of these "rise up and overcome (the MD's)" problems.
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FutureDoc4 said:
So, I just opened up their powerpoint about the program:

BAM, the first thing that hits me on the opening slide:
Debra Shelby, DNP, ARNP, RNFA, CNOR, DNC

hahahaaha, I LOVE how many letters some of these people put behind their name
Click to expand...

Blue Dog said:
The number of acronyms following a nurse's name is usually inversely related to their practical knowledge. ;)

Sincerely,
Blue Dog, MD, FAAFP, ROFL, LOL, OMG, WTF
:D
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DermViser said:
I noticed the number of cuts they had to make as well. Also, you can see how many times she tries to look down or her eyes darting in reading the script in front of her.
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DermViser said:
CNOR, http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/CNOR

Take your pick:
CNOR - Certified Nurse Operating Room
CNOR - Canadian Northern Railway Company
CNOR - Command Not Operationally Ready

I'm tempted to think it's the last one. :laugh:
Click to expand...

AS for this post, here's what I said on the same subject on page 2 of the thread.

Zap Rowsdower said:
You get a lot of free market, libertarian sentiment on these forums yet the moment your job prospects become a tad hazy, everyone looks to the leaders in charge. Make your own way and separate yourself from the rest. This goes for any career.
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FlowRate said:
WE DO NOT LIVE IN A FREE MARKET COUNTRY.

Read that again. Seriously. I'll type it again for you:

WE DO NOT LIVE IN A FREE MARKET HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

Who you can see is dictated- What providers get paid is (95% of the time) dictated- Who can practice is dictated- all by the government. Doctors cannot simply demonstrate more utility and thus either drive down DNP costs or raise their costs because there is no actual market response.
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(I wanted to reply to all of these, but didn't feel like retyping/summarizing, lol)
 
glasshouse said:
I'm worried it would be hard to "prove it" to patients when DNP's are calling themselves "board certified doctors" who have "completed a residency". Patients might not realize non-MD's can promote themselves this way, making it even more confusing to shop around for the best care, not to mention opening up the possibility of being misdiagnosed/mismanaged without even realizing they're not receiving care from an actual physician. I don't mind DNP's filling in gaps in the system, but they should not be misrepresenting their training.
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Point taken. Maybe I'm assuming the general public is smarter than this but probably not.
 
Guys, we're clearly going to lose this one. Now there are millions of newly "insured" patients in need of primary care, and there were hardly enough physicians before these patients had the means to enter the system.

DNPs will take over primary care with the federal government's full support and encouragement. They'll walk into rooms and introduce themselves as "doctor." Sure, they may be paid approximately the same as primary care MDs in 10 years, but that will have more to do with MD salaries coming down to MEET them near their current level (don't NPs already make, like, 90 grand?). Anyone who believes that the same inadequate government-run system responsible for medicaid can spread itself twice as thin AND avoid further decreasing reimbursements to primary care physicians....is off their rocker.

Oh, and if you voted for him you're not allowed to complain :laugh:

The only solution (albeit temporary) is to specialize. As much as possible. I've got my eye on EP right now. By the time the nurses start to infiltrate that field I'll be halfway through my career with my loans paid off.
 
Oh, and if you voted for him you're not allowed to complain :laugh:

Truth be told.
 
I understand them trying to get closer and closer to considering themselves as equal practitioners with physicians. I understand the funny videos talking about "leading dermatology experts" and the wonderful training you will receive. I also understand that if somehow they were allowed to practice independently or with a regional physician as the supervisor or something it would/could drastically cut into patients of surrounding physicians.

However, I don't understand how this will affect physicians that do not lose any patients? I mean there is no way that any major payers will pay out what they do to medical school trained board certified MDs. There is just no way. Am I wrong to think that these DNP will get reimbursed far less?

Also, if someones insurance is paid for by their employer or their government won't they always go to the physician? Out of pocket may be another story.

I suppose if someone was tricked into believing that the DNP was a physician they might but realistically I think that would only be a small number of people.
 
Kubed said:
The problem with getting the FL medical board involved is that they (like many other states) do not regulate NP/DNP's. Rather it's the state board of nursing that sets the scope of practice for them. That's what kills me when I read articles like the one posted about the ASU health clinic. NPs will cry foul about unequal reimbursement for providing the "same" service, but will in the same breath claim what they do is in no way "medicine" so they are not subject to the BOM's oversight.
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Actually in Florida this is incorrect. The BOM set the policy for NPs along with the BON:
BON sole state authority over NPs? No – The Florida Department of Health requires that all practitioners including ARNPs file information in a Mandatory Practitioner Profile Questionnaire for both initial certification and renewal. It is each practitioner’s responsibility to keep the Practitioner Profile (made public after practitioner verification) current. There is joint BON-BOM control over advance practice protocols (as of July 2006 available on the web).

Any NP practicing in Florida has to have an advanced practice protocol signed by the physician and administered by the BOM. Its one of the more restrictive practice acts. Calling this a residency is definitely misleading and might be in the BOM purview.
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19241739

http://www.dermatologynursing.net/ceonline/2010/article12437448.pdf

"The author is also grateful for the professional mentoring and friendship of Drs. Steven Proper, MD, MPH, JD, and Jonathan Zager, MD."

Yes, grateful indeed.

"Note: The author reported no actual or potential conflict of interest in relation to this continuing nursing education article."

Only that you "graduated" from the "residency program" you yourself created and developed. But conflict, schmanflict.
 
DocWiki said:
However, I don't understand how this will affect physicians that do not lose any patients? I mean there is no way that any major payers will pay out what they do to medical school trained board certified MDs. There is just no way. Am I wrong to think that these DNP will get reimbursed far less?

.
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They are already paying midwives the same as OB/GYNs under the new healthcare law. It's not a stretch to assume they'll pay DNP's the same.
 
Well the next step obviously is for nurses to start their own hospitals. I'm all for it. Show us what you can do without docs around. :)
 
core0 said:
Actually in Florida this is incorrect. The BOM set the policy for NPs along with the BON:
BON sole state authority over NPs? No – The Florida Department of Health requires that all practitioners including ARNPs file information in a Mandatory Practitioner Profile Questionnaire for both initial certification and renewal. It is each practitioner’s responsibility to keep the Practitioner Profile (made public after practitioner verification) current. There is joint BON-BOM control over advance practice protocols (as of July 2006 available on the web).

Any NP practicing in Florida has to have an advanced practice protocol signed by the physician and administered by the BOM. Its one of the more restrictive practice acts. Calling this a residency is definitely misleading and might be in the BOM purview.
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Nice catch! I looked on the BON website before I posted, but missed it. Thanks!
 
With today's nursing shortage, it has become essential to promote dermatology nursing practice, and nursing in general. Historically, nurses have been media shy and do not consider educating the public about nurses as part of their practice, but it is. It is up to you to help enlighten the world about what dermatology nurses do, as well as the importance of your role.
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They're really milking this nursing shortage thing, eh? To be fair, though, there objectively is a shortage of board certified dermatologist nurses; this is probably similar to the shortage of nurses in neuroradiology and interventional cardiology...won't somebody think of the patients!!

On the plus side, though, if physicians are to use the nurse board certificaiton criteria, then every rotation we completed throughout medical school would allow us an individual certification. I guess my derm elective means i'm ready to hang my shingle...maybe I can even make partner in this nurse's practice.
 
I sent a note to the AAD two nights ago. They are looking into the claim stated in the USF article that the AAD was working with their program to establish a derm residency for DNPs. My letter has already been forwarded to two people, and evidently a member of the executive board will be replying to me.

Again, let me emphasize from a real experience: A patient of mine who works as a public speaker is now disfigured because he had to undergo wide excision for a melanoma on his face that was missed by non-dermatologists who attempted to treat it with liquid nitrogen numerous times.
 
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all this independent nurse S is hysterical. The states and the insurance companies will make it exceedingly difficult for a physician who is not board certified or board certification has expired ( thats another farce) to practice( reduce payments, revocation of hospital privileges, etc); these are physicians who actually finished residencies and passed licensing exams.... but nurses who barely complete two years of clinical work.. who most actually never took general chemistry with a lab or organic chemistry with a lab.. all of a sudden are qualified to have hospital admitting privileges and all of a sudden are qualified to practice indepedently. how can the younger generaltion take any of this **** seriously? and they wonder why the younger generation is not as dedicated.. cmon
 
At this point, I think it's worth mentioning that none of these "residencies" or even the DNP degree have anything to do with independent practice rights.

Independent practice rights are granted at the state level, and typically allow any licensed NP (not just DNPs) to practice without direct physician supervision. The exact limitations of this vary somewhat from state to state. The cat is already out of the bag on this one in many states. Even so, nurses are not flocking to practice independently in those states which allow it. Why not? Because it's hard.

These bogus certifications are not unlike the non-ABMS certifications that some physicians complete. They aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and doctors and employers, for the most part, recognize this.

This is about getting more letters after your name on your ID badge, and maybe a cushier job working in a specialist physician's practice, not taking over the field.
 
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If doctors are that much better than DNP's, or PAs, DC's, or even Naturopathic doctors then prove it. You get a lot of free market, libertarian sentiment on these forums yet the moment your job prospects become a tad hazy, everyone looks to the leaders in charge. Make your own way and separate yourself from the rest. This goes for any career.
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As Elle Woods in Legally Blonde said, "Wait, am I on glue?"

Shouldn't it be incumbent on the challengers to prove that they are as competent as physicians and can provide an equal service at a lower cost? Shouldn't they have to be the ones to make their own way and distinguish themselves? Haven't physicians already set the standard for others to meet? When did we go down some rabbit hole here where white is black and black is white?
 
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