Number of years to make Navy Captain in Medical Corps after residency

[rocketfrog03]

Hi,

Does anyone have any information on how many years it takes on average for a medical corps doctor to make it to Navy Captain after residency?

I'm prior enlisted military (13 years active service), just starting a 4 year civilian residency (got a deferment for civilian residency, I'm currently a LT in the reserves) and I have 9 years of payback after residency is complete. I'm considering doing FAP, which would make me owe 14 years of payback after residency.

I'm trying to figure out if I'd be able to retire as a Captain in the 9 years of payback after residency or if it would take me closer to 14 years after residency.

Thanks in advance for any input.

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[ProwlerturnGas]

This is my n=1. My co-resident in internship, no prior service, just picked up O-6, this year. He is coming up on 17 years.

 

[rocketfrog03]

This is my n=1. My co-resident in internship, no prior service, just picked up O-6, this year. He is coming up on 17 years.

Thanks! Just to clarify, were you in a civilian or military residency and did your co-resident do HPSP or a military medical school? I think the calculation for time-in-service may be different for folks who did HPSP/USUHS or elected to do a civilian deferment.

 

[pgg]

You are out of your mind to consider committing to 14 years after residency. 9 is enough.

Skip the FAP money in residency. If you eventually decide to stay in more than 9 extra, you'll get the lost FAP back via MSP contract (or whatever they replace MSP with).

What specialty are you entering?

From a purely financial perspective, as a rule, every minute a physician (in all but the lowest paid specialties) stays on active duty beyond retirement eligibility, regardless of rank, is lost money. The bump an extra year of service puts on the pension is small compared to an extra year of private practice.


You'll get to O4 early if you have prior service as an O3. Figure 12 years after you put on O4 to make O6. If you make O6. It is far more difficult now than it used to be, and it's necessary to sell a bigger piece of your soul these days too. And then you'll want to stay 3 more to get your high 36 at O6.


But don't sign up for 14 years of obligated service after a residency you haven't even done yet. That's nuts.

 

[rocketfrog03]

I'm entering emergency medicine.

I am definitely on the fence about doing FAP. Electing to do 5 more years after 9 years as an attending does sound crazy ... and I'd only be doing FAP for the money.

I figured I should consider FAP if I wanted to retire as a Captain. I tried to calculate what the retirement benefit as an O6 with 27 years (what I would have with FAP) would cost in today's dollars as an annuity, plus the value of FAP money today invested at 5% over the next 18 years. I then took that number and compared it to what an annuity would cost as an O5 with 22 years (what I would have without FAP). I tried to determine if I could easily make that difference in the civilian world ... and the numbers are pretty close.

I think I'll hold on the FAP, it's really hard to know what stage of my life I'll be in after 9 years payback (I'll be 45 at that point).

Thanks for the input.

 

[jabreal00]

As alluded to above, making 06 in the military is not as easy as it use to be. One can get to 05 relatively easy albeit with more hoops to jump through as an 04. I just separated from the USA. I have seen guys get passed over for 05 who have done all the right things and done the right military education. Expect to do an operational assignment for 1-2 years and the various list of BS leadership (administrative) positions that takes away from clinical time.

I would base your decision on what you can tolerate. You've done 13 years as prior enlisted so you have exposure and experience to the minutia of the big military structure and bureaucracy. If you want to make 06, don't mind some of the BS of the Navy, and are also looking at it from a financial standpoint, do FAP and 14 years of payback. The longer you stay, the better chance you have of making 06. As an 05 you'll need to do some sort of "leadership" assignment that may be anywhere from 1-3 years, depending on the job. In the Navy you can get picked up but not promote for up to 1.5 years depending on your band so that would put you at about 9 years of service. If you want to retire as an 06, if I am not mistaken you need to have had 3 years at that rank.

 

[pgg]

The longer you stay, the better chance you have of making 06.

That's true in the sense that a 2nd look is better than no 2nd look, but the odds of making O6 above zone are just about zero.

 

[backrow]

That's true in the sense that a 2nd look is better than no 2nd look, but the odds of making O6 above zone are just about zero.

This has changed big time recently. They no longer mark the zones at the promotion board, the number making it above zone is only going up, in fact I believe someone got picked up this year on something like their 6th look.

As to the OP, no you will not make it to your first look at 9 years post residency. In general expect 6 years as LT, 6 years as LCDR and 6 as CDR (and this number is only likely to increase). For you with a 4 year residency and 9 year payback you will likely be looking at early CDR at that point. You may be coming up on a look at CAPT or possibly after your first look if you signed on for 4 more.

I'd be somewhat surprised if they let you sign for longer given you will hit statutory retirement if for some reason you don't make CDR.


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[Perrotfish]

OP if you take FAP, you will lose out on a different bonus down the line (currently called MSP) which is worth more than FAP. In the best case scenario where you actually want to be a physician in the military for 14 years, this is STILL a bad decision because it will cost you a lot of money.

Of course in the likely scenario that you do not enjoy working in the military as an ED doctor you will be trapped for an additional 5 years.

 

[rocketfrog03]

Thanks everyone for your input, at this point I'm still not 100% sure what I'll do but the safe thing is to definitely not do FAP.

OP if you take FAP, you will lose out on a different bonus down the line (currently called MSP) which is worth more than FAP. In the best case scenario where you actually want to be a physician in the military for 14 years, this is STILL a bad decision because it will cost you a lot of money.

Based on today's numbers, the MSP for a 4 year contract in emergency medicine is $40,000 per year. I think FAP is worth much more because right now it's about $75,000 per year and FAP money has the benefit of compound interest over the next 13 years before I would be eligible for MSP. Assuming 5% growth over time in an index fund, FAP is worth at least 3-4x more than waiting to be eligible for MSP.

Of course in the likely scenario that you do not enjoy working in the military as an ED doctor you will be trapped for an additional 5 years.

Probably true, this is the strongest factor arguing against FAP. Thanks for the input.