O visa anyone?

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sdn4em

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Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone here in any ortho program is on a J1 visa and plans to apply for an O-visa so as to not have to satisfy the 2 year home rule of the J1?
I have called a few program and realized that this O-visa isn't something available at many programs so was wondering if anyone knew of any that did sponsor their residents into O-visas at the end of their training?

thank you.

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Do you have an academic record to support an O visa ?

Chances are, most programs don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I wouldn't make my decision dependent on whether some clerical person understands your situation. Apply, during interviews consider bringing the issue up with the PD. If you consider this, I assume you have a strong academic record, people at that level might be more willing to listen to you.

By the way. Your foreign residency requirement doesn't go away by virtue of the O1. You can sort of 'push it off' and work it off by extended vacations in your home country. But take into consideration that you have to reapply every year spending valuable time and money on the process over and over again.
 
thanks for the reply! that was really helpful....so basically there isn't any way to get around visa limitations and get a green card (My country of citizenship is not one qualified to enter the green card 'lottery')? I know H1 has a 6 yr training limitation. Any other routes I'm not considering anyone?

thanks again.
 
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Well, do what everyone else does: Get a job in a healthcare personel shortage area and work off your 3 years.
 
Last question - would anyone know if these 3 years of working in an underserved area, (in this case in my country of citizenship where you ahve to return to anyway on J1 or O-visa) would involve getting paid?

thanks again.
 
You:
- either work for 2 years in the country you lived in immediately before you came to the US. Whether and what you get paid depends on the job market for physicians in your country.

- or you work for 3 years in a medically underserved location within the US. You get paid, and as an orthopod, you get paid well.
 
f_w said:
You:
- either work for 2 years in the country you lived in immediately before you came to the US. Whether and what you get paid depends on the job market for physicians in your country.

- or you work for 3 years in a medically underserved location within the US. You get paid, and as an orthopod, you get paid well.


I am not quite there yet, but I may end up in similar situation with a J-1 visa. Do guys know what happens to the 2 year home country/ 3 year underserved area requirement if you end up getting married to a US citizen and getting a greencard in the process? Do you still have to satisfy your J-1 requirement?

Thanks!! :)
 
what happens to the 2 year home country/ 3 year underserved area requirement if you end up getting married to a US citizen
Nothing.
and getting a greencard in the process?

You don't get a green-card until you have fulfilled the J1 foreign residency requirement. Either by going abroad, or by getting a waiver based on high-end research, political persecution, hardship or service in a underserved area.
Do you still have to satisfy your J-1 requirement?

Yes.
 
f_w said:
Nothing.


You don't get a green-card until you have fulfilled the J1 foreign residency requirement. Either by going abroad, or by getting a waiver based on high-end research, political persecution, hardship or service in a underserved area.


Yes.


Hmm.. so if I have a J1 visa, I can't get a greencard when I get married to my bf, who is a US citizen?
 
You can't even get married. Marriage to a US citizen in the eye of the goverment shows 'immigration intent' which can get you in trouble when renewing your visa.

If you have a bf and NO J1 you have a great option: marry him, do your residency on a 'employment authorization' and later a green-card. It will open so many more opportunities.
 
f_w said:
You can't even get married. Marriage to a US citizen in the eye of the goverment shows 'immigration intent' which can get you in trouble when renewing your visa.

If you have a bf and NO J1 you have a great option: marry him, do your residency on a 'employment authorization' and later a green-card. It will open so many more opportunities.

Oh my! I didn't know that J1 rules were so stringent! Do you guys where I can find out which schools offer H1 visas? So should I not even rank any J1 schools on my application, not even at the very bottom of my list?

Thanks!!
 
Well, they technically don't keep you from marrying anyone. It is just that if you are engaged or married to a US citizen, the consular officer might deny you the visa stamp.

So, marry !
 
Get married...

Hire a lawyer..... and he will apply for a change of status for you for a permanent resident...

You wont need a visa when that gets approved (who cares if they wont give you a visa when you are a permanent resident).

Trust me... get a lawyer and save yourself a lot of headaches.
 
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Now that's for the J1, but what if you're on an H1 which has potential to become an O-visa - will marrying then allow for the green card?

And besides that, can you not start working and transfer directly onto an TN visa from whatever visa you were on before, and just renew every year?

...hope this isn't too confusing. Just trying to explore my options and also in case others here know more about this. thanks everyone.
 
Actually, just occurred to me too, what happens if I go on H1B visa? What are the limitations there, other than it being inconvenient to apply for 1-visa renewal every year? Can you get onto green card on it? I haven't heard otherwise. Is it just that there are few H1B programs around?

I kinda tried calling a few schools in the north east where I'm located now, and so far, none sponsor H1B visas. Is this a major limitation on what programs allow it? - does anyone here know?

thanks again all.
 
The only downside of a H1b for you is the limitation to 6 years vs 7 for J1.

H1b is issued for 3 years at a time.

For the hospital the downside is that the expenses are considerable.
 
How do you find out with schools offer H1B and which offer J1?

Thanks!
 
What I was told was that I'd have to contact individual programs that I was interested, about this visa issue individually. Maybe something to ask about when you visit the school, but honestly, it has been hard getting answers, and I believe most schools prefer to do J1 for you.

I know for one, Yale got back to me, and they don't do H1B....

Anyone else know any others or if my info is incorrect, please post? thanks.
 
I found this on the AMA Freida site..

Immigration FAQs
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Q. What programs offer H-1B visas?

A. The H-1B visa is for temporary workers in specialty occupations who hold professional-level degrees. Some hospitals do sponsor H-1B visa applications, but these tend to be community-based programs in hospitals in urban areas. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee and no program list is available. It is more common for residents to obtain a J-1 visa to obtain working status.

Q. If I am successful in obtaining an H1 visa and having it extended to a six year period, I understand there is a one year period following the six year period during which I am obliged to leave the US. Is there a waiver system in place to avoid this year abroad? If the year abroad is unavoidable, can the year be spent in any country, or does it have to be the country of last permanent residence?

A. In most cases, no extensions are permitted, but an extension beyond 6 years is permitted in certain special circumstances where documents for lawful permanent residence have been filed and have been pending for an extended period. Program directors should consult with their institutions’ immigration experts or legal counsel before relying on or anticipating such an exceptional extension to begin or extend a training program. An absence from the United States of 1 year or more restarts the 6-year period regardless of where you spent that year.

Q. Is it possible to avoid fulfilling the 2-year “home return” requirement of the J-1 visa when you have family in the U.S.?

A. The J-1 program allows physicians to obtain a waiver of the "home return" requirement if they agree to provide primary care services in an underserved area. This is the primary way by which many physicians are able to remain in the U.S. To obtain one of these waivers, you will have to contact a group that can act as an "interested government agency" on your behalf:

Contact your state government Department of Public Health - each state is allowed to request up to 30 waivers each year for J-1 physicians. Please note that a few states have chosen not to participate in the waiver program.

The Web sites below offer information on their J-1 waiver programs:

(These links will take you off the AMA Web site. The AMA is not responsible for content of other Web sites.)

Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)

For applications to request a waiver of the two-year foreign residence requirement for physicians with J-1 visas who will deliver health care services, visit the HHS Global Health Web site.

Veterans Administration

Indian Health Service

U.S. Department of State

Appalachian Regional Commission

National Rural Recruitment and Retention Network

Many physicians in the U.S. on the J-1 visa are able to obtain a waiver through one of these government agencies.

Please be aware that it is extremely important for all immigrants to learn, and carefully follow all the requirements related to their immigration status. These days, the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services is stringently enforcing immigration laws.

Report on the history of the J-1 program

Q. My visa has expired. What should I do?

A. Because of the current immigration climate in the U.S., you MUST address your immigration situation immediately. The Bureau of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services is enforcing immigration laws stringently and is not allowing many exceptions to immigration laws.

You should consult an immigration attorney regarding your case. You can get a referral to an immigration attorney from the American Immigration Lawyers Association. Try to find an attorney who has experience with international physician immigration.

The most common visa for international medical graduates (IMGs) who wish to enter a residency program is the J-1 visa. The ECFMG can sponsor a J-1 visa for an IMG. They provide information on the J-1 sponsorship on their Web site. Please be aware that the J-1 visa has a "home-return requirement" which means you have to return to your home country for two years before you can apply to return to work in the US.

Some IMGs are able to work under an H-1 visa however, this visa requires sponsorship from an employer and it can be difficult to find a residency program willing to sponsor an IMG on an H-1 visa.

More detailed information on physician visas is available on our Web site. However, an immigration attorney will be able to assist you in your individual circumstances. Again, it is critical that you understand and follow immigration laws exactly to prevent problems with your immigration status.

More information on immigration





Last updated: Jan 23, 2006
Content provided by: IMG Section
 
I wonder how things will be different for international students who are NOT IMGs.. such as myself. I am enrolled in a US medical school, did my undergrad in the US as well, but have been on an F1 student visa.

I was told by my school who has dealt with only Canadian International students before (not sure if things are different for them) that if you are one of the very few international students enrolled in a US medical school, then your US med school sponsors you on an OPT (Optional Practical Training) during the first year of residency. As OPT is valid only for 1 year, you pass your Step 3 in this year and then become eligible for an H1B from the 2nd year onwards. Of course this will apply only if the residency program you are in offers H1Bs in the first place. By the info posted on the AMA Freida site, it looks like most places DON'T sponsor an H1B.. that looks depressing.

Any comments/input?

:luck:
 
General Eligibility for IMGs

IMGs who seek entry into U.S. programs of Graduate Medical Education (GME), must obtain a visa that permits clinical training to provide medical services.

Obtaining a Visa

J-1 Exchange Visitor Program and ECFMG Sponsorship

The most common visa to participate in U.S. graduate medical education programs is the J-1 visa. The Educational Commission on Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) is authorized by the U.S. Department of State to sponsor IMGs for the J-1 visa. Information on eligibility and deadlines is available from ECFMG's Exchange Visitor Sponsorship Program.

To apply for a J-1 visa, an IMG must have passed the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 CK, have a valid Standard ECFMG Certificate at the time of commencement of training, hold a contract or an official letter of offer for a position in an accredited program of graduate medical education or training that is affiliated with a medical school, and provide a statement of need from the Ministry of Health of the country of last legal permanent residence (LPR) regardless of country of citizenship.

Two-Year Home Country Physical Presence Requirement
Upon completion of training, they must return to their home country for a period of two years to transmit the knowledge they gained in the U.S. An individual must fulfill (or obtain a waiver of) this obligation before being eligible for a change or adjustment of visa status to certain types of US visas. These visa types include H, temporary worker; L, intra-company transferee; and US permanent resident.

J-1 Visa Waivers

The only exception to the two-year home residence requirement of the J-1 visa program is receipt of a waiver. Under the law, the following three circumstances are the only ones that provide for waiver of the two-year residency requirement:

1. If the waiver applicant can demonstrate that he or she will suffer from persecution in his or her home country or country of last permanent residence;

2. If fulfillment of the residency requirement would bring proven exceptional hardship to the applicant's spouse and/or children who are U.S. citizens or permanent residents;

3. If the applicant is sponsored by an interested governmental agency (IGA) which is interested in the physicianÆs continued employment in the U.S.

Since waivers based on expected persecution or hardship are very rare, most IMGs receive waivers by finding an IGA to sponsor them. Traditionally, the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS), the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and the Appalachian Regional Commission (ARC) were the agencies that sponsored IMGs for J-1 waivers. Recently, the Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) began to sponsor IMGs for waivers. In addition, through the Conrad-30 program sponsored by Senator Kent Conrad of North Dakota, state departments of public health may sponsor up to 30 J-1 physicians per year for waivers to provide care in underserved communities.

On December 3, 2004, President Bush signed into law an AHA-backed bill (S. 2302) that extends the State 30/J-1 Visa Waiver Program for two years. The program, which expired in June, allows state health agencies to annual hire up to 30 J-1 foreign physicians to practice in rural and inner-city communities with physician shortages. It waives the requirement that foreign physicians who have completed their residencies in this country return home for two years before they can apply for an immigrant visa. Physicians selected for the waivers can apply for an immigrant visa. Physicians selected for the waivers can practice in primary care or specialty medicine, if a local shortage in the requested specialty can be demonstrated, and are exempt from caps on H1-B visas. Up to five doctors selected in each state can work in regions not specifically designated as underserved by the Department of Health and Human Services.

To enter and remain in the U.S. as a non-immigrant or immigrant requires several steps. First, a foreign citizen or his or her employer or relative must file an application with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to be classified in one of the non-immigrant or immigrant visa categories. If the DHS approves the application, the foreign applicant may need to go to a U.S. embassy or consulate overseas to have a visa stamped in his or her passport. This stamp indicates the visa category and the dates of issuance and expiration. At the U.S. border, an immigration inspector will review the visa stamp and issue an admission card. The inspector can authorize admission for any length of time up to the expiration date on the visa stamp. The INS also issues permanent resident alien cards to immigrants in the U.S.

Most of the approximately 50% of IMGs who are not U.S. citizens or permanent residents enter the U.S. on a J-1 Exchange Visitor visa or an H-1B visa.

Temporary Worker H-1B
The H-1B visa is for temporary workers in speciality occupations who hold professional-level degrees. The Immigration Act of 1990, and subsequent technical amendments, made the H-1B available to graduates of foreign medical shools who have passed FLEX or the equivalent, have passed an English language exam, and hold a license appropriate to the activity. The advantage of the H-1B visa is that it has no two-year home residence requirement, as does the J-1. The H-1B allows a foreign national to enter the U.S. for professional level employment for up to six years.

H-1B employment authorization is employer specific. The GME program must file an H-1B petition on behalf of the IMG; the law does not permit prospective trainees to file for themselves. To qualify for an H-1B, an IMG must be in possession of a full, unrestricted state medical license or the appropriate authorization for the position, an MD or full unrestricted foreign medical license, English language competence as established by passage of the ECFMG English language examination and passage of the USMLE Steps 1, 2 and 3.

F-1 Student Optional Practical Training



The INS grants H-1B visas to temporary professional workers who are required to have a prearranged job, either temporary or permanent, in a professional field before they receive a visa. There is an initial admissions period of three years, with the possibility of extending oneÆs stay for a second three-year period. After staying in the U.S. for the maximum six-year period, a foreign citizen is required to live abroad for one year before re-entering the U.S. in an H or L visa category.

An H-3 visa is granted to a trainee who is a foreign citizen coming to the U.S. temporarily to receive training not obtainable in his or her home country. After receiving this training in the U.S., those on an H-3 visa must use the skills gained in the U.S. in a foreign country.
 
Immigrant Visas

An immigrant visa (also known as a green card or permanent resident status) permits a foreign citizen to permanently remain in the U.S. A lawful permanent resident (LPR) has the right to become a naturalized U.S. citizen after living in the U.S. for three to five years. To obtain immigrant status, an applicant must meet the requirements of the law. One must qualify as a specified immediate relative of a U.S. citizen or another LPR, as an employee of a sponsoring employer or prospective employer, or as a "diversity immigrant" under a visa lottery program. Moreover, the applicant must not fall into any of the categories of aliens deemed inadmissible by law, including criminality, mental defect, Communist party affiliation, drug trafficking, or terrorism. Generally, IMGs only qualify for permanent resident status based on an existing employment position.

Once an IMG receives a J-1 waiver and a state medical license, he or she may obtain a new work authorized status for U.S. employment, which in most cases will be an H-1B visa or an immigrant visa. Often, the H-1B or immigrant visa process may be concurrent with the J-1 waiver process. The H-1B visa and some types of immigrant visa petitions require a filing with the Department of Labor in addition to the INS. Normally, IMGs may not change from J-1 to H-1 status in the U.S., but must travel abroad to a U.S. consulate to obtain visa issuance. In contrast, IMGs can move directly from J-1 status to immigrant status without leaving the U.S.

There are several different options for IMGs wishing to become permanent residents in the U.S. In previous years, many IMGs qualified for permanent residence based on the national interest waiver classification. That is, IMGs whose continued residence and employment in the U.S. benefited the national interest, for example by working in an underserved community, qualified for an expedited permanent residency process. However, many physicians do not qualify for residency based on a national interest waiver for a variety of reasons including location of practice and medical specialty practice.

In these cases, obtaining permanent resident status becomes a much more arduous process. The most prevalent of the other available options is for the IMGÆs employer to go through the labor certification process, which requires the employer to certify that employment of the IMG will not be detrimental to the U.S. labor market and that he or she is the only fully qualified candidate for the position. The Department of Labor (DOL) conducts this process, which tends to very complex and time-consuming. Due to a number of factors, processing of Labor Certification Applications can take from one to two years. However, on October 1, 1997, the DOL announced revisions to the application process, which have the possibility of streamlining the process for IMGs by requiring less stringent documentation of the recruitment process for a U.S. candidate for the position and by requiring expedited treatment of cases for which there are few or no U.S. applicants. Once the Labor Certification Application is completed and approved by the DOL, the employer must submit an Immigrant Visa Petition to the INS. Upon approval of this Petition, the IMG may finally apply for permanent residence through the INS or a U.S. consulate abroad.

The final option available to IMGs who wish to obtain permanent residence is available to physicians of extremely high professional capacity who qualify for an accelerated process established for Aliens of Extraordinary Ability or for Outstanding Professors or Researchers.

The national interest waiver pathway to permanent residence is the least complex and most time-efficient for IMGs. Applications under the national interest waiver program can be processed in a 60-90 day period, representing a significant reduction of time spent in the immigration process. Two other major advantages are the ability of the physician, in addition to the employer, to file the request and increased freedom to change employers. However, this waiver program does impose other restrictions which applicants should explore before proceeding.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
Last updated: Jan 23, 2006
Content provided by: IMG Section
IMG Section
 
Just noticed in one of the paragraphs that, "The J-1 program allows physicians to obtain a waiver of the "home return" requirement if they agree to provide primary care services in an underserved area."

So dumb question but the phrase "primary care services"? ...if we train under an orthopaedic program can we practice orthopaedics in underserved area....is that providing the aforementioned service? Or how would that work?

Second, thanks so much for all the info everyone. Just wondering if anyone could also post specific schools that have in the past, or say over the phone that they would sponsor anyone's H1B visa status here? Again, thanks a bunch!
 
sdn4em said:
Just noticed in one of the paragraphs that, "The J-1 program allows physicians to obtain a waiver of the "home return" requirement if they agree to provide primary care services in an underserved area."

So dumb question but the phrase "primary care services"? ...if we train under an orthopaedic program can we practice orthopaedics in underserved area....is that providing the aforementioned service? Or how would that work?

Second, thanks so much for all the info everyone. Just wondering if anyone could also post specific schools that have in the past, or say over the phone that they would sponsor anyone's H1B visa status here? Again, thanks a bunch!

Hmmm GOOD QUESTION. Crap. I don't know what happens if we train in a tertiary care speciality. Can anyone answer that?? I didn't even catch that when I read the info.

And yeah, if anyone can post specific schools, we will reallllllllllllllllly appreciate it.

sdn4em, are you an IMG? Or are you in a US med school?
 
hey Chocolateshake, I'm a third year student attending a US medical school....but unfortunately on F1 visa and not a US citizen.....which is the root of all my troubles I guess lol :)

btw, is anyone from this thread on H1B already? and if so, which program are you at?
 
- You can get a waiver from the foreign residency requirement in ANY specialty through the state30 program.
- 5 slots per state are available to physicians who work in a census tract that is itself not underserved but at a facility serving a hpsa population.
- appalachian regional comission waivers are limited to primary care specialties.
- some states limit access to primary care specialties.
- obtaining permanent residency through work in a underserved area is limited to primary care (at least for now, the goverment just lost a lawsuit on appeal that included this issue, congress didn't say 'primary care' in the law)
 
So since there is such a thing as being licensed (ie. passed all USMLEs) but not certified, would it be possible to train in orthopaedics, but do the 3 years in primary care, ie. family medicine, since one I guess, would be licensed but just not board certified in family med? Did I get that right?
 
Why would you want to do THAT ?

No. You do an ortho residency, you get a waiver job as an orthopedic surgeon, you work 3 years in that job and you are free to work wherever you care.
 
f_w said:
Why would you want to do THAT ?

No. You do an ortho residency, you get a waiver job as an orthopedic surgeon, you work 3 years in that job and you are free to work wherever you care.


what is a "waiver job"?
 
It is a physician job in either a 'healthcare personel shortage area' (HPSA) or in a 'medically underserved area (MUA).

If the state health department (or the appalachian regional commission or the Delta regional authority) issues a recommendation to the department of state to waive the 'foreign residency requirement' for a physician to fill this job, DOS will typically direct the immigration service to waive the requirement and issue a work visa. This allows a physician who trained on a J1 to remain in the US while working this job and to pursue permanent residency afterwards.
 
f_w said:
Why would you want to do THAT ?

No. You do an ortho residency, you get a waiver job as an orthopedic surgeon, you work 3 years in that job and you are free to work wherever you care.

Well, I thought you mentioned that there were only 5 slots per state slotted for use, the other waivers seem to be all primary care in the list you suggested? I must've misunderstood then. So it's not so difficult to get a waiver and serve in an underserved area doing orthopaedics then? ....and the 5 slots per state, that's not shared between all the other non-primary care specialists on visas too, so that it's likely if we apply for a waiver, we'd get it?

thanks again.
 
It is difficult to impossible to get an ortho residency as a FMG.

The 5 slots are for physicians who are not in a HPSA. If you practice orthopedic surgery or any other subspecialty in a HPSA/MUA, a good number of states will sponsor you.
 
Hello again,

thanks f_w for all your useful information so far!

btw, I found the link for hpsa (for anyone who is interested in checking it out too) : http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/shortage/hpsacritpcm.htm

btw,I noticed that there were only designations on the links for 1. primary care 2. dental 3. mental health professionals. primary care being defined as internists, Fammed, peds, ob/gyn.....but if you search by googling orthopaedics and hpsa there are opportunities available.

My question this time is: would you only contact hpsa after residency, or upon getting J1 visa to sign some contract...or is that all done after completion of residency?

thanks again!
 
after completion of residency

hpsa is defined for primary care but state health departments will sponsor anyway
 
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