OB/Gyn Salary?

[UMMS FMD]

I've seen conflicting data on this and am wondering what you've all seen as far as salaries for generalist OB/Gyn docs. I know it varies depending on the region but I'm just trying for the gestalt. Thanks!

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[THP]

Most of the salary surveys I've seen show the average to be somewhere between 220-250. As a future OB/GYN I would also be interested in hearing some anecdotes.

 

[bkpa2med]

Is that salary after malpractice?

 

[manleyjb]

Yes salaries are usually posted in terms of what you will make after all expenses are paid (i.e. staff, facility, malpractice).

 

[Trillgirl]

You are NOT going to make 220-250 as a generalist just coming out of residency. Period. That number is probably for someone out in a mature practice. The recruitment companies might try to seduce you with numbers like that, but that would be a hospital-supported (proabably solo) practice for the first year or two. Realistically your salary just coming out joining a group practice would be about 130-180 a year.

You will make more if you are willing to practice in a rural or less desirable location. If you want to be in the bigger metro areas, you will definitely make less money.

Trillgirl - who is starting as a generalist Aug 1

 

[nykka3]

so how many years does it take to get to the 200-250 a year salary?

 

[Coastie]

Not true.

Have a buddy straight out of res (no fellowship) who made 280k starting plus benefits in a generalist group practice in central florida last year. Typical OB schedule, but nothing overwhelming. More to come as partner.

Why make 130-180k when you can start at 250k? Look around at practices.

You are NOT going to make 220-250 as a generalist just coming out of residency. Period. That number is probably for someone out in a mature practice. The recruitment companies might try to seduce you with numbers like that, but that would be a hospital-supported (proabably solo) practice for the first year or two. Realistically your salary just coming out joining a group practice would be about 130-180 a year.

You will make more if you are willing to practice in a rural or less desirable location. If you want to be in the bigger metro areas, you will definitely make less money.

Trillgirl - who is starting as a generalist Aug 1

 

[Coastie]

BTW, said buddy is in a *highly* desirable location in florida.

Highly.

 

[Trillgirl]

You'd have to pay me that much to practice in Florida too. It's one of the worst states in terms of malpractice. Many OBs choose to go bare there because of the costs and risks of litigation. Florida is also a state with a three strikes (three suits) and you lose your license permanently rule. I'm glad your friend is doing so well, but that is the exception, not the rule.

I looked at jobs in the Midwest including Chicago, the Southeast (NOT Florida) and the MidAtlantic regions, and had several job offers. For the larger metro areas, that sort of money is not there. There were offers of hospital supported practices, but the hospital would only pay you these big salaries for 2-3 years, theoretically long enough for you to establish your own practice. But once the time was up, you were on your own financially.

 

[manleyjb]

Friend of mine just signed straight out of residency for 250K plus bonus and relocation. It IS possible, you just have to look around.

 

[JulianCrane]

What are currently the worst states for malpractice?

 

[Coastie]

Florida.

What are currently the worst states for malpractice?

 

[nykka3]

any other states?

 

[LADoc00]

even 250 sounds low considering your call schedule. Must be love of the game and all that.

 

[jdogg]

I just started my 3rd year. We had 3 graduate, one went to Florida $230, one went to Washington stat $220, one went to Michigan $180.

 

[Cobragirl]

As a Florida native, who went to undergrad & med school in Florida, I am sad to say that I probably will NOT be returning (anytime soon) to Florida to practice after residency. The malpractice is bad enough, but the "3 strikes" law that went into effect the year I graduated from med school sealed the deal.

Considering the ever escalating population of my home state (I get a perverse pleasure from being a Southerner invading the North now) I hope lawmakers can get their heads on straight soon and fix this...I'd like to come home someday.

 

[djsmooth]

What states are the grads going? It's hard to believe that a newly minted ob making FP money with something so procedural; maybe that's naive. Are these guranteed salaries rather than production??

 

[greenfeild]

200 US dollar

 

[obmom80]

Here is some salary info from the AAMC site

Clinical Practice
Low(25th Percentile) Median High(75th Percentile)

1 - 2 Yrs in Specialty N/A $205,080 N/A
All Physicians $208,732 N/A $322,608

Source: MGMA Physician Compensation and Production Survey: 2006 Report Based on 2005 Data. Reprinted with permission from the Medical Group Management Association, 104 Inverness Terrace East, Englewood, Colorado 80112-5306; 303.799.1111. www.mgma.com. Copyright 2006.
Understanding Physician Compensation

Academic Medicine
Low (25th Percentile) Median High(75th Percentile)

Early Career $163,000 $191,000 $228,000
Mid to late Career $184,000 $225,000 $280,000

Source: Faculty Salary Survey, 2006. Association of American Medical Colleges.
Understanding Physician Compensation

 

[Trillgirl]

The basic income including base plus bonuses for a new Ob/Gyn in the US ranges from $120k to $185k. This relates to a larger hospital or clinic facility as well as a private practice opportunity.

Told ya so...

 

[rahulazcom]

I used to be a recruiter before I went to medical school. I would like to respond to provide some relief to the concerned people reading the recruiter's response above. I will also provide advice to those completing residency to improve their odds of acquiring a job. I recently helped my wife(who is a physician) land a job 2 years ago. My response is really long so I apologize for that but I wanted to be thorough so that this can be of some use to those reading it.

First, the salaries he is discussing are first year base salaries or associate salaries. Associate salaries are always lower than their partner counterparts regardless of the field of medicine. This is why many cardiologists will start at 260-300 when some of their partners are earning well over 500K. So this principle is not limited to OB/GYN's. Therefore, the 120-200K associate salary for most OB/GYN's is not unusual. Partners in any specialty generally earn two to three times the associate salary. Groups offer this lower salary for several reasons. The lower salary is used as an incentive to entice the associate to become a partner and help share in the expenses and reduce overhead of the group. Also, it is financially disadvantageous to offer an associate a salary on the same level of the partners since they don't incur any of the expenses and have the freedom to leave at any time since they have nothing invested in the practice. The real salary and the one you should be interested in is what the partners earn. If you notice, the recruiter above never mentioned partnership pay and that's because recruiters are paid on a percentage of the candidate's first year base salary. So often times, the recruiter is unaware of the partnership compensation package because it doesn't affect his commission or the partners will not reveal that to the recruiter for confidential reasons. Most ethical groups will have a partnership tracks between 1-3 years with a variable buy-in depending upon how much equity the partner receives in regards to the practice.

The reason this has become such a hot issue recently is that certain primary care fields namely general internal medicine and family practice have provided more competitive offers recently and can be in excess of 200K starting in many areas. So many fellows and other specialists beg the question why they are receiving less intially when they have more training. The answer is that while primary care specialists might receive a higher offer initially, their income potential is less than that of specialists and other fields. For example, these general IM might start at 200K but will likely not have the potential to exceed 300K whereas an OB/GYN could very realistically earn 300-500K as partner in a big group. Keep in mind, these lower starting salaries or associate salaries also skew the salary survery information that is published which is why you hear anecdotal stories of how someone knows a physican who earns 3 times what they read on some salary survery.

Finally, I would advise you to not use recruiters at all. Recruiters are like Real Estate Agents. They provide the impression that they have certain resources or skills that you don't possess until you see what they actually do and realize you can do that on your own. This is what they do. They cold call groups and hospitals to see if they are interested in their services. Then these recruiters pay a large fee to Monsterboard or some other major search engine to post job descriptions. No, they don't have secret sources in high positions like you think. That's what they want you to think. Candidates will usually respond through e-mail and then they forward their resumes (with their names blacked out) to the hiring person. Recruiters will also send flyers or e-mails to program directors or specific departments "fishing" for applicants.

Be aware that the best companies are not actively looking for people. The companies that are willing to shell out 30-60K in recruiting fees are those that are desperate to find someone or are really struggling to find someone. This is not alway true but it's true most of the time.So if a recruiter is discussing a job opportunity, please keep that in mind. Ask yourself why is that job open and why have they contracted a recruiter? Also, see if you can assess the experience of the recruiter. The bad leads are dumped on the new guys to see if they can close them; the senior guys will not want to work those bad leads. Also, if a recruiter calls you and starts rehashing information from a database, that's usually the newbie that is calling old leads that is stored in a database which is an ominous sign.

Back to my original point...., by applying directly to hospitals and groups, you will actually increase your chances of landing a job because the group/hospital doesn't have to pay a larger recruiting fee (30K to 50K) to hire you. Also, do not randomly place your resume on-line or give it to a recruiter. Recruiters don't charge the candidate anything to find a job so you might think it's a great deal to just give them your resume to see what they can dig up for you. The problem is that the recruiters mass e-mail resumes or fish resumes without your knowledge to see who will bite. That can hurt you. For example, let's say you put your resume on some random free job site. The next day you apply directly to a group. If the recruiter sent that group your resume before you did, the group is obligated to pay the recruiter first should they decide to hire you due to the "contingency agreement" the recruiter has with the group/hospital. The group may then not want to hire you considering they would have to pay 30-50K to the recruiting agency for your services. Please understand that the contingency agreement is not used to trap the hospital but rather it's designed to protect the recruiters. An unethical hospital or group could just as easily hire a candidate a recruiter sends them and not be obligated to pay because they never had a written agreement in place. And whatever you do, don't use several recruiters at once because these multiple recruiters could send your resume to the same hospital/group. And most hospitals/groups would rather not deal with a legal issue of deciding who to pay so they will just not hire the individual at all.

Okay, so here is what I would advise all of you to do if you are in the job hunting stage.
1. Have an idea where you want to settle down. Narrow your search to one or two cities
2. Create a porfolio by having your CV, photo and LORs photocopied and placed inside a large envelope.
3 Mail the packages directly to groups and hospitals and make certain to let them know you are not being represented by a recruiter and that you are representing yourself. Make sure to address your portfolio to one of the physicians. Don't address it to the title of the practice or the hospital department because it could end up in the HR/Office manager's hands and they could just dump it in the trash.
4. Follow up with them to see if they received your portfolio.
5. Be aware that the best groups are not actively looking to hire someone, but if the right candidate lands on on their desk and they don't have to pay a large recruiting fee to hire him or her, they will strongly consider hiring that individual.
6. AVOID the HR! That's a recruiter basic! Talk to the decision-maker or one of the partners. You can talk to the HR later in regards to benefits etc. but the physicians/partners are much easier to deal with.

 

[THP]

Thanks Rahulazcom,
This is the sort of thing they should teach us in residency or at least medical school.

 

[nykka3]

moderator- can we sticky this ....very helpful!!!

 

[Coastie]

120k-185k?

Not true.

"Recruiting agencies" generally take a 25k and upward cut of a new trainee's salary for "placement". Avoid these like the plague!

 

[Coastie]

It's not. My Ob buds laughed when they saw this. I know what those from my alma mater signed for, and it wasn't harvard, mayo, or USCF!

HOLY ****. 120? Thats 120,000 US DOLLARS NOT POUND STERLING??

That is insanely low. Shockingly low. That cant possibly be for full time.......

OUCH.

 

[UMMS FMD]

It's not. My Ob buds laughed when they saw this. I know what those from my alma mater signed for, and it wasn't harvard, mayo, or USCF!

Meaning?

 

[TheJayBee]

Told ya so...

FWIW- Many states have sigificantly better business environment for OB/Gyn and offer far better starting salaries as a result.

East Coast is currently hurting (eg malpractice premiums are sky high) and salaries may be accurate as $150k as Trillgirl mentioned . Suck

In contrast, California has malpractice award limits and thus lower premiums costs for the MD's employer (lower overhead). Economy is good and many folks are on PPO and good HMO plans (higher revenue).

Result: Starting salary for OB/GYn at Kaiser in San Francisco area (a beautiful area) is about $200-220k with call Q 5-7 noc. Secure and dependable employer, great benefits even if long term earnings top out lower than other options (like small group practice). Other centers in this area are comparable.

So look Nationally to benchmark.

 

[LADoc00]

moderator- can we sticky this ....very helpful!!!

this thread is filled with massive disinformation. There is no way an OB is paid 120K for full time services. Maybe in Cuba.

I wouldnt sticky this.

 

[Coastie]

Meaning LA Doc is right on. The money is far greater than stated by the "recruiter". Remember what I said above: NEVER USE A RECRUITER. Their job is to fill crappy jobs with YOU, and take a decent chunk of your salary to do so. You get doubly screwed.

Meaning?

 

[rainbowman]

I don't get the three suits rule in Florida? What if the suits aren't legitimate or you win all them? I'm gonna rethink med school if doctors keep getting the shaft

 

[obgynthoughts]

who knows? the harder and smarter you work and the more patients you see and surgeries you do, the faster you get there. And the better your contract is. If you work for one of those abusive doctors that thinks you have to "put in your dues" for 5 years you will not get there anytime fast. If you have a good contract where your payment is directly related to your collections, then it is worth working hard and making a lot. Or consider becoming independent, in your own practice. Then the profit (collections minus overhead) is all yours.

 

[obgynthoughts]

you do not have to get the rule. The only thing to understand is that it was pushed on us by lawyers in an attempt to intimidate doctors and make them settle lawsuits before going to court, so that the lawyers would make more money. Rethink your decision to become a doctor if this scares you.

 

[mdjobexchange]

Each procedure you do is worth so many RVUs. An RVU is a relative value unit. Each case is worth so many RVUs. A hysterectomy is worth 34 RVUs. Average reimbursement for ob/gyn is about $43 per RVU, so you would get paid 34 x $43 = $1462. Practice overhead is 50% usually, so the doc would see about $700. How does this translate to salary? The average ob/gyn bills about 14000 RVUs per year. Average RVU is worth $43. 14000 x $43 = $602,000. Take 50% overhead and that leaves $300,000. That is the about the average partner OB/gyn compensation package nationwide. That is typically after malpractice.

Some practices are run better than others. If you can decrease overhead, more money ends up in your pocket. If you can negotiate better RVU/reimbursement from insurers, you make more money. If you can do more cases in a day, you make more money.


Salaries for any specialty, including ob/gyn vary greatly by location. My wife is an ob/gyn and when she was in San Francisco doing her fellowship, there were many jobs that were only paying people $100k straight out of residency. That is supply and demand. Everybody wants to live there and there are many residents who want to stay there because their spouse/lover has x years left in whatever program they are in. Same deal for me when I finished anesthesia residency in Chapel Hill, NC. They could pay way under market for people because there were 3 training programs within 60 miles and people would work for nothing.

Average OB/Gyn salaries vary by region. People in the south make the most, while other areas make less. Range of $150-$200 out of residency is about right. Partners can make an average of $300k, while partners in really well run practices can make much more. That is a key issue today. How well is the practice run? If the group has a poor manager and doesn't aggressively negotiate rates, they will not make as much money. I do know ob/gyns in Nevada that are making over $400k and working about 60 hrs a week. They run their practice well.

 

[drivesmecraazee]

I don't know about the salary in the States but here in Costa Rica Ob/Gyn is one of the most JUICY specialities in medicine, along with Plastics and Derm, I also heard that from a Rusian doctor who is in Critical Care so I guess it could be a standard in all the countries or at least lots of them.

So you shouldn't worry about $$$ so much if you're going for Ob/Gyn.

 

[smq123]

I don't know about the salary in the States but here in Costa Rica Ob/Gyn is one of the most JUICY specialities in medicine, along with Plastics and Derm, I also heard that from a Rusian doctor who is in Critical Care so I guess it could be a standard in all the countries or at least lots of them.

So you shouldn't worry about $$$ so much if you're going for Ob/Gyn.

In Costa Rica, maybe. In the US, with a huge problem with unreasonably high malpractice insurance rates, salary becomes a big deal. I mean - in Costa Rica, are hospitals closing down their OB units because it's too expensive to run them? This is becoming a concern in the US.

 

[drivesmecraazee]

Hospitals closing their OB units??? Wow! I don't think there is A HOSPITAL here doing it, actually there are lots of clinics specialized in OB/Gyn BESIDE the hospitals, but this special clinics focus mostly on the Gyn part, obstetrics are the hospitals field, both public and private.

 

[MDwannaBe81]

smq123 is right. There are some U.S. hospitals that are closing their ob units. It all depends on the area and the demand for the service. The city I did my Administrative Residency had 3 hospitals + a military hospital + a new hospital across the river. All of them had ob services, but some were not making money off of the service (the demand just wasn't there to support 5 ob programs in that particular city).

Takeaway - research the area before you move or apply to a program. If you can, go visit the area.

 

[nykka3]

smq123 is right. There are some U.S. hospitals that are closing their ob units. It all depends on the area and the demand for the service. The city I did my Administrative Residency had 3 hospitals + a military hospital + a new hospital across the river. All of them had ob services, but some were not making money off of the service (the demand just wasn't there to support 5 ob programs in that particular city).

Takeaway - research the area before you move or apply to a program. If you can, go visit the area.

ok name the cities/hospitals or general location please?

 

[smq123]

ok name the cities/hospitals or general location please?

Pennsylvania (in general) is a fairly bad state to be in, in terms of malpractice insurance rates. Several of the Philadelphia area community hospitals no longer do any OB, and send their cases to Penn/Temple/Jeff/Drexel. There are some community hospitals that still do some OB, but others have closed relatively recently.

 

[jocg27]

not sure of the right way to word this question, and it might be a dumb question anyway...but I guess I'm just wondering what makes different states handle this so differently?

I mean, what have doctors done wrong or lawyers done right in Pennsylvania or Florida that they haven't in, I don't know, California or Wisconsin or something? In what ways are 'good' states to practice ob in different from the 'bad' ones? (ie, how did they get that way?)