Obama open to reigning medical lawsuits

[womp]

6/15/2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/health/policy/15health.html?_r=1&hp

"On Capitol Hill, Democrats drafting health legislation have so far shown little appetite for tackling the liability issue. But one Republican who met with Mr. Obama in April recalled that the president said he was willing to go against his party to get medical malpractice reforms into a health bill — but that he would expect Republican support for the legislation if he did so."

"But to deliver a deal with doctors, Mr. Obama would probably have to defy senior members of his party in both houses of Congress. Many Democrats oppose putting limits on medical lawsuits because they believe it is ineffective and unfair to patients.

"Senator Max Baucus of Montana, the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, is expected to outline his proposal for a health care overhaul this week, and aides said liability protection for doctors is not part of the plan.

"Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic leader, resisted medical malpractice legislation when it was pushed by Republicans in the past. “The whole premise of a medical malpractice ‘crisis’ is unfounded,” Mr. Reid said on the Senate floor in 2006, in a speech that quoted extensively from a book titled 'The Medical Malpractice Myth.'"

"And any effort to restrict patients’ legal rights to sue will face tough opposition from the American Association for Justice, which represents trial lawyers and has met with Nancy-Ann DeParle, Mr. Obama’s point person for health reform, to express its concerns. Linda Lipsen, the association’s chief lobbyist, said practice guidelines were established by unregulated medical societies and “should not be conclusive” in a court of law.

"The association may have an ally in Mr. Obama’s health secretary, Kathleen Sebelius, who is a former director of the Kansas Trial Lawyers Association."

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[Paddington]

I just saw him on TV right now, lecturing the AMA no less (in a room filled with what must have been pre-picked Chicago Democratic partisan shills based on them clapping at every idiot statement he made "I will make doctors use evidence based medicine")... Anyway, he categorically said that he opposes any limits on lawsuits because this may infringe upon patient's rights to get what they deserve, or some other such nonsense. This was also met with applause.

Anyway, there goes your idea.

 

[strv04]

Don't forget about the part when he said he's gonna rein in defensive medicine practices.

No caps on lawsuits and less defensive medicine, less fee per services and more payment based on "good outcomes" (how do you measure that? what happens to specialties based on terminal diseases?), more taxes on those making lots of money (doctors), less payments to hospitals treating those without insurance, all adds up to screwing over doctors for the next couple decades until the system collapses.

 

[MOHS_01]

That is what I, and many others, have been screaming for the past several months. Medical students, prepare to be ****ed. Residents, prepare to be ****ed. Old docs, well... they can retire. Young guys like me, prepare to be ****ed. He is neither the friend of medicine or the people. There is nothing to be hopeful about in this speech.

 

[Miami_med]

The speach, for which the transcript has now been published on this forum (Thank you for that by the way) is a bunch of feel good substanceless garbage. It would be like if I said, "if we just all come together, everyone can live to 200 years old and we'll simply make room for everyone by colonizing the moon." He makes all sorts of cognitive leaps with no evidence and states that things will do things that there is no real evidence that they would do. Apparently, we can generate $1 trillion by correcting lost productivity and using money we've already agreed to spend (as though already agreeing to spend it somehow makes us not have to pay for it). He also numerous times brings up the obvious counter-argument to his claim and then dismisses it as simply not true without any obvious proof that it is not true..

 

[AznTrojan]

i can't believe people are still drinking the hope/change kool-aid

 

[tibor75]

I gotta laugh at doctors who think wasteful spending is all in the name of preventing lawsuits. Get real. Most patients have no knowledge of medicine. Most patients don't sue despite study after study that shows countless deaths caused by medical errors.

Physician sees patient ---> refers for procedure ---> does procedure himself/herself ---> physician gets money

Oh no, it's not the physicians problem that health care spending is through the roof...it's the lousy patients fault!

"Damn it! I deserve the right to earn $500,000 even if it means putting my patients through unnecessary procedures"

pathetic.

 

[LADoc00]

Obama...LMAO..America RIP: 1776-2009.

"Started off decently enough, then slid completely into the crapper."

 

[RabbMD]

I gotta laugh at doctors who think wasteful spending is all in the name of preventing lawsuits. Get real. Most patients have no knowledge of medicine. Most patients don't sue despite study after study that shows countless deaths caused by medical errors.

Physician sees patient ---> refers for procedure ---> does procedure himself/herself ---> physician gets money

Oh no, it's not the physicians problem that health care spending is through the roof...it's the lousy patients fault!

"Damn it! I deserve the right to earn $500,000 even if it means putting my patients through unnecessary procedures"

pathetic.

I am not sure what specialty you are talking about, but as an anesthesiologist I have to order numerous tests to cover for possible lawsuits. Elective intermediate risk procedure, patient has vague probably noncardiac chest pain and is not on a beta blocker. There are some subtle EKG changes (say no specific ST changes and some poor R wave progression).

If there were no lawyers looking over the shoulder of every doctor looking for any possible error I would likely just talk with the patient myself and gauge the likelihood the chest pain is cardiac. If I was convinced it was not, I would proceed with intraoperative beta blockade if I noticed any St changes intraoperatively.

However, since I am not a cardiologist and lawyers know that I feel obligated to get a cardiology consult for this 300 lber's knee replacement surgery. I see none of that extra money, so what are you talking about again? Do you think this is a rare occurence? Oh and because he has medicare we get paid 33% of what private insurance companies pay for the exact same procedure...

If payments go down and liability is not changed through some form of tort reform, then I am only going to be more likely to order more cardiology consults because if you are barely scrapping by financially, and there is no way to distinguish yourself in a universal payer system (no incentives in socialism/communism remember) then why should I accept any liability myself?

 

[Instatewaiter]

I gotta laugh at doctors who think wasteful spending is all in the name of preventing lawsuits. Get real. Most patients have no knowledge of medicine. Most patients don't sue despite study after study that shows countless deaths caused by medical errors.

Physician sees patient ---> refers for procedure ---> does procedure himself/herself ---> physician gets money

Oh no, it's not the physicians problem that health care spending is through the roof...it's the lousy patients fault!

"Damn it! I deserve the right to earn $500,000 even if it means putting my patients through unnecessary procedures"

pathetic.

Considering physician yearly incomes are steadily decreasing yet medical costs are skyrocketing exactly how are you going to prove the claim that doctors are getting rich off of ordering more tests and procedures?

 

[DO2Be2013]

Physician sees patient ---> refers for procedure ---> does procedure himself/herself ---> physician gets money

Is this really how it usually works? Come on, most referring/ordering physicians do not perform whatever consult or procedure they are referring for themselves. A family doctor doesn't get paid for ordering an MRI or referring someone for a specialist consult. Examples of self-referral are probably very minimal in comparison to the type of defensive practices for which the ordering physician has no financial incentive. Given that physician salaries, adjusted for inflation, have fallen in the last decade while average weekly work hours have increased, and the fact that physician fees make up a single-digit percentage of total healthcare spending, I don't see how anyone can pin growing healthcare costs on greedy physician self-referrals...

 

[docB]

I Physician sees patient ---> refers for procedure ---> does procedure himself/herself ---> physician gets money

Yeah, I don't see this happening either. Most surgical/procedural specialties get patients referred to them. They might be too liberal in recommending a procedure but someone else thought they needed the consult. I do my own minor procedures like LPs but I would make a lot more money if I didn't do the LP and spent that time seeing other patients.

Now I do think that the defensive medicine behind many referrals (and lots of LPs) could be addressed and could cut costs if it was eliminated.

 

[Paddington]

This "Tibor" guy wears the badge of "Attending" under his name, but I really have to wonder if he has any exposure whatsover to the healthcare field. The stuff that he posts here is so God damned clueless, it's as if it comes from BHO's own talking points, intended to smear the healthcare system. Is he a plant by the White House?

 

[RGMSU]

Considering physician yearly incomes are steadily decreasing yet medical costs are skyrocketing exactly how are you going to prove the claim that doctors are getting rich off of ordering more tests and procedures?

Yeah, I've wondered how the math on that one works too. Doctors are responsible for the increased costs, yet doctors are making less than they have for most of the past century? To the ones griping about doc profits - INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE THE ONES MAKING THE PROFITS FOLKS! THE BIG FAT CAT CEOS OF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES. LOOK AND SEE WHAT THEIR HOUSE LOOKS LIKE COMPARED TO THE AVERAGE DOC'S HOUSE. Can I give any clearer illustration than that? OH, AND IT'S ALSO THE LAWYERS WHO SPEND ALL THEIR TIME SUING DOCTORS MAKING SOME BIG PROFITS WHILE OUR SYSTEM FALLS APART. When he talks about malpractice, all Obama is doing is throwing a bone to docs so he can trick them into getting screwed over - apparently they're mostly dumb enough that it seems to be working. Apparently something that they don't teach in medical school is that POLITICIANS AND LAWYERS ARE GREAT AT LYING TO PEOPLE TO INCREASE THEIR OWN WEALTH AND KEEP THEMSELVES IN POWER, WHILE SUBJECTING EVERYBODY ELSE. That's what the greedy, narcissistic bastards do professionally. The only time a businessman, politician, or lawyer will represent anybody's interest but their own is when they're getting PAID to do it. I don't know when the medical profession will realize that they must fight for their own interests, rather than trusting everybody else to protect their interests. Plainly put, docs need to get world-wise before they lose their asses.

 

[MOHS_01]

prediction -- tibor will soon say:

"blah, blah, blah.... doctors expect the right to earn 500k doing totally needless, useless, and harmful procedures... blah, blah, blah.... yeah, right. Give me a break. Pathetic."