Obamacare: So much for 'bending the cost curve'

[BLADEMDA]

The ACA begins to take hold and drive up costs.


Obamacare turned out to be sicker and more costly to cover than they anticipated.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/102811876

"But if you think these developments are teaching universal coverage advocates and socialists an important lesson, think again. Many Obamacare supporters are using these cost increases to either publicly or privately say that this will help achieve what they really wanted all along: single payer government healthcare. And that brings us back to our "Smarter than a 5th grader" question about whether increasing access to and demand for a product or service will lower or increase costs. Because while single payer might change the sticker price on health care to as low as zero, the realcosts of providing care will only go up unless access is somehow regulated, controlled, and rationed. And all of those things only slow the inevitable rise in real costs anyway."

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[Hyde]

The ACA begins to take hold and drive up costs.


Obamacare turned out to be sicker and more costly to cover than they anticipated.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/102811876

"But if you think these developments are teaching universal coverage advocates and socialists an important lesson, think again. Many Obamacare supporters are using these cost increases to either publicly or privately say that this will help achieve what they really wanted all along: single payer government healthcare. And that brings us back to our "Smarter than a 5th grader" question about whether increasing access to and demand for a product or service will lower or increase costs. Because while single payer might change the sticker price on health care to as low as zero, the realcosts of providing care will only go up unless access is somehow regulated, controlled, and rationed. And all of those things only slow the inevitable rise in real costs anyway."

I've done some precursory research on this subject - imho, single payer only works ( for a limited time) with 1. rationing care through primary care gate keepers 2. with an acquiescent population 3. a homogeneous population 4. with the majority under age 65 and 5. no ambulance chasing lawyers - tort reform in place 6. limited middle men - i.e. private insurers. In America #2, #3 #5 #6 are major problems. Also #4 if you consider the # of middle income middle age taxpayers we have vs the over 65 baby boomer middle class retired taxpayers with age related illnesses who have paid into "the system" and will demand care. Honestly I can't see single payer working here - too many special interests ( lawyers, insurers, etc) and too few taxpayers who can support the system as compared to the demands of the retired and unemployed and under employed and a United Nations population with every potential disease under the sun either thru heredity or thru int'l travel.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

The real issue that no one really wants to admit is that the citizens of this country have become so uninformed and polarized politically no one can objectively look at things like the ACA and make a decision about it based on merit. Everyone gets swept up into what their political party talking points are and genuine debate doesn't happen. The result is we get crap for a government and currently their is no end in sight.

Some are smart enough to see through the bull**** but they are few and far between.

If you are a fan if history it's scary and kinda awesome how similar the U.S. is following the same path the Roman Empire did.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Two tiered healthcare (probably 3 tiers) is already here in the USA. The far left denies its existence in order to keep the false concept of equal healthcare for everyone alive.

Once the breaking point is reached in 5-10 years the left will either allow the 3 tier system to continue by rationing care for those on the government dole or deny access to care to all 3 tiers forcing another Supreme Court showdown on the constitutionality of market based healthcare.

 

[Man o War]

Exactly Blade. It's really astounding how many doctors across specialties don't take Medicaid, don't accept new Medicare patients, and accept a select few of the exchange insurance plans. I think the majority of Americans equate single payer with being able to get care when they want it, how they want it, which is not the way it works. The second tier will get care when they want it, everyone else will wait on the list.

 

[el_duderino]

So rates are going up because more sick people are able to access health care now?

It's kinda hard to get upset about that. More, sicker people are now getting medical treatment.

Long term, we simply can't afford to give everyone the kind of health care those with good insurance enjoy, and it doesn't make sense to stratify health care quality based on income. There aren't many options unless you're a monster who is fine with letting fellow countrymen suffer and die because they don't have enough money.

 

[BLADEMDA]

So rates are going up because more sick people are able to access health care now?

It's kinda hard to get upset about that. More, sicker people are now getting medical treatment.

Long term, we simply can't afford to give everyone the kind of health care those with good insurance enjoy, and it doesn't make sense to stratify health care quality based on income. There aren't many options unless you're a monster who is fine with letting fellow countrymen suffer and die because they don't have enough money.

It's the real world slim. That means those who have money get to drive a nicer car than you, Fly First Class and dine out at the best restaurants. If you want free handouts or govt supplied services then expect to fly coach and be happy you have a seat on the plane at all.

And your fine meal will be Fast food that's an hour old.

 

[el_duderino]

It's the real world slim. That means those who have money get to drive a nicer car than you, Fly First Class and dine out at the best restaurants. If you want free handouts or govt supplied services then expect to fly coach and be happy you have a seat on the plane at all.

And your fine meal will be Fast food that's an hour old.

I'd rather eat Taco Bell than Commander's Palace if it means a few other people can eat McDonald's instead of dumpster diving.

We are a rich, productive, prosperous nation. We can afford to make sure everyone has halfway decent health care. It might mean a lot of us will have to get used to not being able to get MRIs every time our backs hurt, but I can't really get upset about that.

Also, coach is fine with me. I don't have such a big sense of entitlement to think that I magically deserve to fly everywhere first class.

Humility is a virtue.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I'd rather eat Taco Bell than Commander's Palace if it means a few other people can eat McDonald's instead of dumpster diving.

We are a rich, productive, prosperous nation. We can afford to make sure everyone has halfway decent health care. It might mean a lot of us will have to get used to not being able to get MRIs every time our backs hurt, but I can't really get upset about that.

Also, coach is fine with me. I don't have such a big sense of entitlement to think that I magically deserve to fly everywhere first class.

Humility is a virtue.

You haven't dealt with a lot of baby boomers who will expect, no demand, first class treatment when they turn 65. The reality is we don't have the money for unlimited care on demand for much longer. Access to life and death care (sans the futile $300k ICU stay before death) will be there for all CMS patients.

On July 30, 1965, President Lyndon Johnson signed Medicare into law and enrolled former President Harry Truman as its first beneficiary. But today, federal unfunded liabilities are catastrophic for future taxpayers and economic growth. The US Debt Clock lists federal unfunded liabilities at $97 trillion. That equals about $818 thousand per taxpayer; about three times average U.S. net worth; and 131 percent of world GDP.

 

[BLADEMDA]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...are-hits-50-years-old-and-is-broke-as-a-joke/


Entitlements are always sold as somehow controlling costs and creating a “Great Society.” But as Medicare and now Obamacare are proving, there is nothing great about unfunded entitlement liabilities that have made the vast majority of Americans “broke as a joke.”

 

[el_duderino]

You haven't dealt with a lot of baby boomers who will expect, no demand, first class treatment when they turn 65. The reality is we don't have the money for unlimited care on demand for much longer. Access to life and death care (sans the futile $300k ICU stay before death) will be there for all CMS patients.

They can demand it, but it seems like we won't be able to afford to give it to them. They, as well as the rest of us, will eventually have to figure out how to deal with less health care than we've gotten used to.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I'd rather eat Taco Bell than Commander's Palace if it means a few other people can eat McDonald's instead of dumpster diving.

We are a rich, productive, prosperous nation. We can afford to make sure everyone has halfway decent health care. It might mean a lot of us will have to get used to not being able to get MRIs every time our backs hurt, but I can't really get upset about that.

Also, coach is fine with me. I don't have such a big sense of entitlement to think that I magically deserve to fly everywhere first class.

Humility is a virtue.

You think by the time you are in the middle of your career that healthcare and other entitlements will be the same as today?

 

[el_duderino]

You think by the time you are in the middle of your career that healthcare and other entitlements will be the same as today?

I'm 34. I had an 11-year career in another industry before doing this, BTW.

But no, they won't be the same as today. Today we still have millions of people who don't have access to health care, and costs are sky-high and still rising. It's not sustainable. We can't afford to keep doing what we've been doing. It's going to be hard, and there's going to be a new normal.

 

[BLADEMDA]

They can demand it, but it seems like we won't be able to afford to give it to them. They, as well as the rest of us, will eventually have to figure out how to deal with less health care than we've gotten used to.

4 tier system:

1. Those with insurance (real private insurance or cash)
2. Those with CMS (limited access, rationed care)
3. Those with VA insurance (huge organization)
4. Obamacare (subsidized by taxpayers)


The best baby boomers can hope for is a voucher so they can buy into real insurance plans.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I'm 34. I had an 11-year career in another industry before doing this, BTW.

But no, they won't be the same as today. Today we still have millions of people who don't have access to health care, and costs are sky-high and still rising. It's not sustainable. We can't afford to keep doing what we've been doing. It's going to be hard, and there's going to be a new normal.

Middle of your career would be age 54-55 assuming you work until age 70. That's 20 years from now and the country will be broke.

 

[el_duderino]

4 tier system:

1. Those with insurance (real private insurance or cash)
2. Those with CMS (limited access, rationed care)
3. Those with VA insurance (huge organization)
4. Obamacare (subsidized by taxpayers)


The best baby boomers can hope for is a voucher so they can buy into real insurance plans.

How is "Obamacare" its own tier? Obamacare includes an individual mandate but not its own insurance programs. It expanded "tier 2" and pushed some people into "tier 1." It didn't create a "tier 4."

But yeah, there are tiers, and there always will be. Even in places like the UK with nationalized health care, wealthy people can afford to pay for things that most people don't have access to. That's never going to change.

 

[anbuitachi]

I'm 34. I had an 11-year career in another industry before doing this, BTW.

But no, they won't be the same as today. Today we still have millions of people who don't have access to health care, and costs are sky-high and still rising. It's not sustainable. We can't afford to keep doing what we've been doing. It's going to be hard, and there's going to be a new normal.

that's b/c health care is a luxury. you are having people who went thru 10 years of post college education to take care of you. Saying that health care is a right is just politicians being politically correct. One day we will have a society of people who will do nothing and just demand for their 'rights' (food, a house, a car, health insurance.. etc) and a government that will have to figure out how to stop these costs from ballooning out of control

 

[el_duderino]

that's b/c health care is a luxury.

Not in my book. This is the US in the 21st century.

We can afford to make sure everyone has decent health care.

 

[anbuitachi]

Not in my book. This is the US in the 21st century.

We can afford to make sure everyone has decent health care.

yep, decent.
that's why the government is trying to use mid levels to fill peoples needs. that is decent enough

 

[el_duderino]

yep, decent.
that's why the government is trying to use mid levels to fill peoples needs. that is decent enough

That's the point I've been trying to make. We can't afford to keep doing what we've been doing, so we will need to find ways to spend less on health care per person. More midlevels is potentially one of those ways (though I understand there's some argument as to whether they actually save money).

 

[anbuitachi]

That's the point I've been trying to make. We can't afford to keep doing what we've been doing, so we will need to find ways to spend less on health care per person. More midlevels is potentially one of those ways (though I understand there's some argument as to whether they actually save money).

it's much easier to train mid levels.. their trainings are short, and some dont need a 4 yr bachelor degree if im not mistaken. just build more programs so they wont cost as much later on lol

 

[el_duderino]

it's much easier to train mid levels.. their trainings are short, and some dont need a 4 yr bachelor degree if im not mistaken. just build more programs so they wont cost as much later on lol

I mean in practice. I hear some people say that they tend to order more diagnostic testing, and their higher rates of misdiagnosis create more costs later on, etc.

 

[anbuitachi]

I mean in practice. I hear some people say that they tend to order more diagnostic testing, and their higher rates of misdiagnosis create more costs later on, etc.

Oh i see. Yea i heard about that as well. Not sure how you study that though. The mid lvls can always just fund a study that shows no significant difference lol

 

[Hyde]

One day we will have a society of people who will do nothing and just demand for their 'rights' (food, a house, a car, health insurance.. etc) and a government that will have to figure out how to stop these costs from ballooning out of control

We have reached the first part but all that means is we are at a point of no return - i.e. we'll never get a government that will try to stop these costs from accelerating because if they tried, they'd get deselected at the voting booth.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." unsourced attribution to Alexander Fraser Tytler

 

[BLADEMDA]

How is "Obamacare" its own tier? Obamacare includes an individual mandate but not its own insurance programs. It expanded "tier 2" and pushed some people into "tier 1." It didn't create a "tier 4."

But yeah, there are tiers, and there always will be. Even in places like the UK with nationalized health care, wealthy people can afford to pay for things that most people don't have access to. That's never going to change.

Many Obamacare plans have huge deductibles of $2-$3,000 in addition to the monthly payment. This makes the utilization of healthcare expensive at the least and restrictive at the most for those people owning that plan. What those people need are an inexpensive, low deductible plans with rationed care which is very different than the ACA plans.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Yep, Obamacare Costs a Fortune

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-02-11/yep-obamacare-costs-a-fortune

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[el_duderino]

I didn't realize the ACA invented deductibles.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

I didn't realize the ACA invented deductibles.

For many people using the federal exchanges (ACA) to get insurance a deductible of 5K+ or even 3K might as well be like not having insurance b/c they don't have that sort of money readily available. If that's better then OK you win.

I know for ME personally my insurance was canceled and the new insurance I had to buy was more expensive, had a much higher deductible and overall wasn't as good as the insurance I previously had. I suspect I'm in the same boat as many Americans.

I get it, something had to change with healthcare. I don't disagree. What we got is now is crap and its hard for me to see how its better. Their had to be a better way but our politicians are very good at playing to peoples emotions and charging issues so that we the people don't vote on based on merit or substance but rather on emotion. Result = we all lose.

Yes the ACA is a loser for us all as it currently stands. Some people can't get past emotion/ideology to see that.

 

[el_duderino]

Yes the ACA is a loser for us all as it currently stands. Some people can't get past emotion/ideology to see that.

I guess that depends on how you define "us"....

 

[NOsaintsfan]

I guess that depends on how you define "us"....

"us" the way I used it is meant to be the citizens of the United States. All the citizens.

I'm not sure what you are trying to imply but I suspect you are accusing me of referring to "us" as the top income class or what some call the elite.

If that's the case then you are doing (possibly unknowingly) what the USA politicians make a living doing which is divide and conquer. They charge an issue by targeting a specific group of people and play to the masses to focus contempt against them. By doing that everyone is fueled by emotion and not focusing on the actual issue.

To their credit (the politicians) it works well, most of "us" are to superficially invested in our government to notice this even happens.

 

[el_duderino]

"us" the way I used it is meant to be the citizens of the United States. All the citizens.

Are you forgetting about the people who now have health care who didn't before?

 

[NOsaintsfan]

Are you forgetting about the people who now have health care who didn't before?

Never mind, your right healthcare in this country is way better now than before the ACA and the future of our healthcare system is finally stable and financially viable. We should all be proud of what has happened here and should serve as a model for the rest of the world to follow. At least all the poor and destitute in this country now have healthcare. Problem solved! [Sarcasm]

 

[pgg]

I didn't realize the ACA invented deductibles.

Do you not recognize the difference between a $20 copay "deductible" and a $3000 annual "deductible" and how that may affect a poor family's willingness and ability to seek care?

 

[Pooh & Annie]

Never mind, your right healthcare in this country is way better now than before the ACA and the future of our healthcare system is finally stable and financially viable. We should all be proud of what has happened here and should serve as a model for the rest of the world to follow. At least all the poor and destitute in this country now have healthcare. Problem solved! [Sarcasm]

Not all of them. Just in the neighborhood of 10-12 million. We still have a way to go to make sure everyone has access to adequate care.

 

[el_duderino]

Do you not recognize the difference between a $20 copay "deductible" and a $3000 annual "deductible" and how that may affect a poor family's willingness and ability to seek care?

A copay is not a deductible, and plans with deductibles predate the ACA.

 

[el_duderino]

Never mind, your right healthcare in this country is way better now than before the ACA and the future of our healthcare system is finally stable and financially viable. We should all be proud of what has happened here and should serve as a model for the rest of the world to follow. At least all the poor and destitute in this country now have healthcare. Problem solved! [Sarcasm]

It's a hell of a lot better for the millions of people who now have coverage who didn't before. I'm sorry you have to share a little bit more now. I know that's hard.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

We have reached the first part but all that means is we are at a point of no return - i.e. we'll never get a government that will try to stop these costs from accelerating because if they tried, they'd get deselected at the voting booth.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." unsourced attribution to Alexander Fraser Tytler

Absolutely right! Corporate welfare in the form of tax breaks and subsidies is costing individual middle income taxpayers THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of dollars a year. I would disagree, though, that they "vote" them in. It's more of a paying for campaigns and fiscal quid pro-quo deal. Also, they definitely aren't a majority.

This can't possibly refer to people who receive social welfare, who: 1)receive a pittance in comparison 2) have no money to influence elections or those in power 3) don't tend to vote.
That would be an absolutely RIDICULOUS assertion.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

As far as the ACA, maybe you're right. Maybe the economy will collapse and the Visigoths will sack New York.

Or maybe we'll see a decline in chronic illness related morbidity and mortality with more people seeing primary care docs. Maybe this will actually improve costs.

I don't know. Neither do you. My guess is our national health will improve, and necessary changes will be made to ensure that people can afford their premiums and the system won't implode. This is my guess. I really hope that in ten years we see great improvements in national health indicators. If so, I'll be proud to say that as a doctor, I favored the legislation. You'll have to say you were against it. Maybe the opposite will happen.

We'll see.

 

[BLADEMDA]

As far as the ACA, maybe you're right. Maybe the economy will collapse and the Visigoths will sack New York.

Or maybe we'll see a decline in chronic illness related morbidity and mortality with more people seeing primary care docs. Maybe this will actually improve costs.

I don't know. Neither do you. My guess is our national health will improve, and necessary changes will be made to ensure that people can afford their premiums and the system won't implode. This is my guess. I really hope that in ten years we see great improvements in national health indicators. If so, I'll be proud to say that as a doctor, I favored the legislation. You'll have to say you were against it. Maybe the opposite will happen.

We'll see.

Please don't confuse the expansion of Medicaid (which is part of the ACA) vs the Obamacare Exchanges. The former will help tens of thousands, if not a 100,000 plus, US Citizens get some basic health care very cheaply. The latter, on the other hand, is bad deal for the US taxpayer and those forced onto the exchanges.

 

[el_duderino]

The latter, on the other hand, is bad deal for the US taxpayer and those forced onto the exchanges.

Is it? Did you ever shop for personal insurance for yourself on the open market beforehand?

 

[teeva]

Or maybe we'll see a decline in chronic illness related morbidity and mortality with more people seeing primary care docs. Maybe this will actually improve costs.

Joke of the day! Thanks for the lol.

Is it? Did you ever shop for personal insurance for yourself on the open market beforehand?

Yes. The premiums are higher. The coverage is ****. At least I'm young, healthy, and have no kids. The only thing I can count on with having health insurance is catastrophe (like a car accident) or pancreatic cancer so I can die fast and not need healthcare anyway.

And not only am I paying more for **** insurance, I have to pay Obamacare tax on top. That means the lowest tier, highest deductible, one free physical exam per year bronze plan costs me about $620/month on my average California attending salary. It used to cost $100/month with a $2000 deductible prior to residency/ACA compared to becoming an attending four years later.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

Is it? Did you ever shop for personal insurance for yourself on the open market beforehand?

I did. Try to step back from political ideology and see this for what it is. Its all about the details.

If you want to focus on cost to the consumer then its a sham at best. Sure if you get a subsidy then the ACA is great because now you can afford insurance. What that insurance covers doesn't matter to many even if it is basically worthless. At least everyone is "covered".

If you do not get a subsidy then the insurance available to you is on the whole much more expensive and inferior to what was available for purchase prior to the ACA. Sure "Cadillac" plans are still available but they are much more expensive than before. As I said in another post the insurance I was FORCED to buy due to the ACA (because my previous insurance no longer exists) is inferior and with a higher deductible. I didn't get to keep my policy or my doctor. To get a policy with a similar deductible and coverage as before is simply out of my price range.

I get it, change is never easy. As I have stated before the status quo wasn't sustainable and needed to be changed. What we have now is a scam. If you take the 10,000 foot view of the situation it's not hard to see it for what it is. This whole debacle is a way to get us to a single payer system. This current "improved" system we now have will collapse very soon. (As was the plan from the onset) Private insurance will be too expensive for everyone except the despised 1% of income earners. The way is being paved for a catastrophe in 10-15 years so that uncle sam can swoop in and save us with a single payer system. The bonus is that the sheeple of this country will be so thankful to their political party that "saves them" not realizing they were scammed the whole time.

I realize that many want a single payer system and WHEN the above happens they will be happy because that's what they wanted the whole time. Is that how you REALLY want your government to operate though. To make things so obscure and confusing that no one can understand it and then force things via underhanded agendas? (If you don't recall the ACA was so lengthy and complex that the supporters of the bill openly admitted that they hadn't read it and didn't know what was in it).

If a single payer system is so great and the answer to our health care issues then why wasn't it openly debated? Why force it on us by underhanded means? Maybe it IS what is best, I'm open to that idea but the way its being brought about is frightening. Forget your political leanings and your opinions about healthcare. Try to block out your emotions on this particular issue and ask yourself, is this the kind of government you really want?

I don't.

 

[Consigliere]

Also, coach is fine with me. I don't have such a big sense of entitlement to think that I magically deserve to fly everywhere first class.

Humility is a virtue.

Not me. First class or I don't fly. No sense of entitlement here but life is too short to not enjoy the finer things. I sacrificed and worked hard - I deserve to reap the benefits of my labor and I do. Leaving for my beachfront house next week - peace out!

Oh yeah....the whole "humility is a virtue" thing may work for you Mother Theresa types but it ain't for me. I think it's an excuse/rationalization for accepting mediocrity and being okay with it. Not for this guy.

 

[Hyde]

The former will help tens of thousands, if not a 100,000 plus, US Citizens get some basic health care very cheaply.

"US citizens?" I don't think that US citizens are the main beneficiaries of expanded Medicaid.

http://cis.org/immigrant-families-accounted-for-42-percent-of-medicaid-growth-since-2011

 

[deleted171991]

"US citizens?" I don't think that US citizens are the main beneficiaries of expanded Medicaid.

http://cis.org/immigrant-families-accounted-for-42-percent-of-medicaid-growth-since-2011

To be more precise (and politically incorrect): illegal immigrants, not immigrants in general.

One cannot immigrate into this country without having either personal financial resources well beyond Medicaid levels, or a sponsor (who swears) to provide them.

 

[el_duderino]

To be more precise (and politically incorrect): illegal immigrants.

One cannot immigrate into this country without having either personal financial resources well beyond Medicaid levels, or a sponsor (who swears) to provide them.

"Immigrants (legal and illegal) are referred to by the Census Bureau as the foreign-born. The foreign-born are individuals who were not U.S. citizens at birth. This includes naturalized citizens, permanent residents (green card holders), illegal immigrants, and some long-term visitors such as foreign students and guest workers who respond to the survey. Of immigrants in the ASEC, slightly more than a quarter are estimated to be in the country illegally.8Figures reported for immigrants and their U.S.-born children include children under age 18 born in the United States who have two immigrant parents or an immigrant father. Those with an immigrant mother and a native-born father are counted with the figures for natives.

"While some number of illegal immigrants may be enrolled in Medicaid due to fraud or administrative errors, these numbers should be small. A modest number of illegal immigrant women who are pregnant also are enrolled in the program. In addition, a significant share of the U.S.-born children of immigrants have illegal immigrant parents. But overall the growth in Medicaid use associated with immigrants reflects the fact that a large share of immigrants allowed into the country legally are unable to provide health insurance for themselves or their children. As a result, taxpayers step in and provide Medicaid."

 

[deleted171991]

I don't buy that. Very few legal immigrants would legally qualify for Medicaid. These people are here mostly sponsored by their families. The affidavit of support from the sponsor says specifically that these people will not qualify for federal programs, and should they accept any federal money the government will come after the sponsor. So I guess the federal government is not doing their homework, because again it would be politically incorrect and would hurt their electoral image (to go and ask for the money back, as they are supposed to).

Just read the sponsor's responsibilities here: http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-processes-and-procedures/affidavit-support

 

[el_duderino]

I don't buy that. Very few legal immigrants would legally qualify for Medicaid.

Why? "Immigrants" includes recent immigrants as well as people who have been here for decades. It's simply everyone who wasn't born here. Immigrants don't have permanent sponsorship deals. Family visa income requirements aren't all that high, either, generally. Plus situations change... you bring your spouse and her daughter into the country, and lose your job ten years later.... that's still two immigrants, and now it's two immigrants on Medicaid. There are tons of such scenarios.