% of collections for associate specialists?

[56101991]

What kinds of %'s are new grads vs. experienced specialists getting these days?

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[Wax n Relax]

35%, as a pediatric associate

 

[Localnative]

What kinds of %'s are new grads vs. experienced specialists getting these days?

In my 7th yr of OS practice
Most places 50 % collections
A few 45%
OS new grads shouldn't accept less than 45% as an independent contractor.

 

[Munks]

Anyone for ortho? Avg for Flat rate vs Production vs Collections? CA land of sunshine and saturation if possible

 

[510586]

In my 7th yr of OS practice
Most places 50 % collections
A few 45%
OS new grads shouldn't accept less than 45% as an independent contractor.

Would you still recommend going into OS for private practice? How do you think it will change in the next 10+ years?

 

[Localnative]

Would you still recommend going into OS for private practice? How do you think it will change in the next 10+ years?

not sure what the future brings... insurance issues, national policy/ADA/AMA stuff, reimbursements, blurring of lines in clinical practice
only way to tell for sure is by doing some externships, shadowing private practice and academic guys, etc
I dig the job, but it has its daily highs and lows probably like anything else in dentistry and medicine.

 

[Tooth]

Not on collections yet, but my contract is slated for 28%

 

[MaxAnn]

Getting paid by collections is nonsense in my opinion. Why should an associate's pay be based on how skilled the front office staff is at collecting? No matter what, the associate dentist provided at service at the time of treatment. I've told more than one owner, no thank you when they only want to pay on collection.

 

[2TH MVR]

Getting paid by collections is nonsense in my opinion. Why should an associate's pay be based on how skilled the front office staff is at collecting? No matter what, the associate dentist provided at service at the time of treatment. I've told more than one owner, no thank you when they only want to pay on collection.

I totally agree with you, but lets look at reality. A GP practice only makes money on the collections. Not production. Production numbers can always look good, but are nothing if not collected. Collecting money owed costs money. If I were an Associate looking for a position .... I would want to know what the collection % of all production is. This % needs to be considered in your negotiations for employment.

The problem is that you would want to see this % clearly stated in the practice financials. Itemized for dental, hygeine, FFS, insruance, etc. etc. Many employers may not want to divulge their practice numbers. That's when you walk.

 

[DocJL]

I totally agree with you, but lets look at reality. A GP practice only makes money on the collections. Not production. Production numbers can always look good, but are nothing if not collected. Collecting money owed costs money. If I were an Associate looking for a position .... I would want to know what the collection % of all production is. This % needs to be considered in your negotiations for employment.

The problem is that you would want to see this % clearly stated in the practice financials. Itemized for dental, hygeine, FFS, insruance, etc. etc. Many employers may not want to divulge their practice numbers. That's when you walk.

I am not a specialist, but I can speak to the percentage of production, vs percentage of collections.

When I was looking for my first associate job, I was wined and dined by a dentist who owned 5 or 6 locations, and had several associates. He offered 28% of collections, and claimed his collections were "over 98%". I had been warned that collections are very difficult to track as an associate, as often payment for procedures is not received for several months. I countered with, "that's fine, but since your collections rate is 98%, we stipulate that I will never receive less than 25% of (adjusted) production". He balked at this and I found a position elsewhere. Later met several of his prior associates and found out that he was known for cheating his associates, especially when they left his group, as he would then claim "no more collections came in", essentially stiffing them out of their last several weeks of pay.

The fairest way for all parties, IMO, is to be paid a percentage of adjusted production - adjusted meaning what is actually expected to be collected, counting discount fees for insurance plans, cash discounts given, etc etc (too often I see practices for sale listing some wild "Production" number, that is just counting all procedures at full UCR, which the majority of practices almost never get). This can be easily tracked by both parties, and on any given day the associate knows at the end of each day, how much they have produced, and how much they will be paid. When figuring out what amount to settle on, the owner can figure in what he knows, historically, his practice collects as a percentage of adjusted production, so that he knows to a very close degree what he is offering in compensation.

 

[TheDarkSSC]

45-50% as independent contractor as a pedo doc. 30-35% as associate is more the norm. My percentage is more of an outlier though. I do sedation dentistry (IV/GA) with MD anesth managing patient for private practices. I only do cases for pediatric dentists(better handling of post-op issues if they arise) who do not carry sedation permit.

 

[MaxAnn]

I am not a specialist, but I can speak to the percentage of production, vs percentage of collections.

When I was looking for my first associate job, I was wined and dined by a dentist who owned 5 or 6 locations, and had several associates. He offered 28% of collections, and claimed his collections were "over 98%". I had been warned that collections are very difficult to track as an associate, as often payment for procedures is not received for several months. I countered with, "that's fine, but since your collections rate is 98%, we stipulate that I will never receive less than 25% of (adjusted) production". He balked at this and I found a position elsewhere. Later met several of his prior associates and found out that he was known for cheating his associates, especially when they left his group, as he would then claim "no more collections came in", essentially stiffing them out of their last several weeks of pay.

The fairest way for all parties, IMO, is to be paid a percentage of adjusted production - adjusted meaning what is actually expected to be collected, counting discount fees for insurance plans, cash discounts given, etc etc (too often I see practices for sale listing some wild "Production" number, that is just counting all procedures at full UCR, which the majority of practices almost never get). This can be easily tracked by both parties, and on any given day the associate knows at the end of each day, how much they have produced, and how much they will be paid. When figuring out what amount to settle on, the owner can figure in what he knows, historically, his practice collects as a percentage of adjusted production, so that he knows to a very close degree what he is offering in compensation.

And that's the problem with working for collections. "It's simply too difficult to track" Also, there's no guarantee the staff is going to push to get your claims collected as thoroughly as the owner's collections. I honestly believe working as an associate makes no sense unless you're

1) an associate with a written contract stating you can buy into the office as a partner after a specified period
2) an associate with a written contract stating you can buy out the owner completely after a specified period
3) an associate that once owned an office and is looking to "slow down" as you work towards retirement.

Outside of that, working as associate long term is just setting yourself up to be taken advantage of in my humble opinion.

 

[Localnative]

as an os , currently-

working with a close colleague GP , small office- 50% collections (staff prints out day sheet before you leave for the day. painful to track but totally doable. not so much in a big practice/DSO/etc- see below)

large multi specialty practice - 45 - 50% ADJUSTED production (i.e., minus care credit/credit card fees )