Opinions on NBPAS Board Certification?

[mgdsh]

Glad to see there's been a fight against all the specialty boards, including against the ABPN.

I'm almost willing to join just to help them support their cause even if this isn't necessarily viewed as an equivalent to the ABPN certification.

Curious to what peoples thoughts are on if this will eventually get accepted as an equivalent to ABPN's recertification or eventually put pressure on the ABPN to drop the MOC junk?

Links:
Newsweek Article making its way around
National Board of Physicians And Surgeons

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[PikminOC]

Physicians sure are stupid.
We do so much education and CME.
And yet we keep jumping this BC hoop too.
No reason for that.
MD is more than enough.
Dance monkey dance.

 

[F0nzie]

This is a nice back scratching game. We scratch the board's back, the board then scratches our back by making us more attractive to insurance companies and hospitals.

They should make different tiers of board certification to bump their profit. Platinum test is super hard and only 10% pass. 10k entrance fee. I would flaunt that cert all day.

"Those other psychiatrists are bronze. Platinum right here."

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

They should make different tiers of board certification to bump their profit. Platinum test is super hard and only 10% pass. 10k entrance fee. I would flaunt that cert all day.

"Those other psychiatrists are bronze. Platinum right here."

APA member
APA fellow
APA distinguished fellow…..

 

[Shikima]

APA member
APA fellow
APA distinguished fellow…..

Does the application for distinguished fellow come with or without knee pads?

 

[F0nzie]

APA member
APA fellow
APA distinguished fellow…..

Step ahead of me. Personally I prefer the medal system bronze, silver, gold, platinum, etc. And an actual test that advertises the pass rates.

 

[barzan]

How about DLFAPA?

 

[F0nzie]

Maybe even a badge I can wear around at the clinic or a certificate with actual gold so that everybody knows that I am the real deal.

 

[wolfvgang22]

So is there anything preventing a psychiatrist from having both ABPN certification and NBPAS? I'm already ABPN bored and certified but I may like to support an alternative to the ABPN. Competition is good for the market place.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Step ahead of me. Personally I prefer the medal system bronze, silver, gold, platinum, etc.

You mean like your credit cards?

 

[Shikima]

So is there anything preventing a psychiatrist from having both ABPN certification and NBPAS? I'm already ABPN bored and certified but I may like to support an alternative to the ABPN. Competition is good for the market place.

I'm curious to see how this movement evolves.... I'm for competition in the market too.
I think an alternative society, like the AMA, would be good too.....

 

[PikminOC]

APA member
APA fellow
APA distinguished fellow…..

All that means is that you helped grandfather yourself in..
and screwed the rest of us..
with cmoc

 

[jettavr6]

So is there anything preventing a psychiatrist from having both ABPN certification and NBPAS? I'm already ABPN bored and certified but I may like to support an alternative to the ABPN. Competition is good for the market place.

This is an important topic, and I would encourage all current ABPN members to enroll in the NBPAS. Ask yourself how relevant the current MOC requirements are for your practice. Add in the expense. Lastly, take a look at the last few years of tax returns for the ABPN and the NBMS. The boards have lost their way, and are bankrolling their salaries/lifestyle off of our hard work. Enough is enough.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

This is an important topic, and I would encourage all current ABPN members to enroll in the NBPAS. Ask yourself how relevant the current MOC requirements are for your practice. Add in the expense. Lastly, take a look at the last few years of tax returns for the ABPN and the NBMS. The boards have lost their way, and are bankrolling their salaries/lifestyle off of our hard work. Enough is enough.

Do we have information on ABPN finances? Also, does the ABPN have a shadow organization like the ABIM that is mentioned in this article? It would be interesting to expand coverage of these issues beyond ABIM, although ABIM is probably a good representation of these groups as a whole.

Have you joined NBPAS? I'm curious to know who else has joined. I'm considering it, although I'm also not giving up my ABPN membership anytime soon as I just spent a ton of money to take their test.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Adding ABIM's response --

http://www.abim.org/news/statement-...icle-from-abim-board-chair-david-johnson.aspx

What do you all think? The mention that the author's wife is an internist seems a bit creepy to me. Also if the information about the finances is incorrect, why not correct it? Their 96% statistic seems odd as well -- they're just saying that 96% of people who are board certified through them passed a test to be board certified through them (so the other 4% were grandfathered?). It doesn't say anything about failure rates for non-members or repeat test taking rates.

Admittedly I dislike MOC and am a bit of an anti-authority type of person, so I'm disinclined to like these types of organizations.

 

[jettavr6]

Do we have information on ABPN finances? Also, does the ABPN have a shadow organization like the ABIM that is mentioned in this article? It would be interesting to expand coverage of these issues beyond ABIM, although ABIM is probably a good representation of these groups as a whole.

Have you joined NBPAS? I'm curious to know who else has joined. I'm considering it, although I'm also not giving up my ABPN membership anytime soon as I just spent a ton of money to take their test.

Yes, I have. No one should give up their ABPN membership until it is time for renewal. You worked for it and earned it. And you can't even joint NBPAS until you've been initially certified by a primary organization like the ABPN. The main point of contention are the MOC's, and one should consider just letting their ABPN lapse. Joining the NBPAS would be done concurrently, and then when it's time for recertification, it's adios ABPN.


Addendum --- “National Board of Physicians and Surgeons.” It will only consider doctors for recertification who have passed the initial certification exam that has been required for decades. Doctors must also log a set number of hours with programs that qualify under guidelines as continuing medical education. The group’s fees are much, much lower than those charged by the ABIM. And its board and management—all top names in medicine—work for free."

 

[Shikima]

Time to sign up.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Got this from the ABPN today. Seems things must have been getting kind of hot for them. Basically, they are blaming the ABMS for MOC.

The ABPN included this letter from the ABMS. Basically, the ABMS is saying: "Don't like MOC? Tough." However, they do direct diplomates to a web site where you can email them a complaint. This will help them compile a list of trouble makers and assist them in intimidating and defusing one diplomate at a time rather than deal with a group of disgruntled physicians all at once.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Got this from the ABPN today. Seems things must have been getting kind of hot for them. Basically, they are blaming the ABMS for MOC.

The ABPN included this letter from the ABMS. Basically, the ABMS is saying: "Don't like MOC? Tough." However, they do direct diplomates to a web site where you can email them a complaint. This will help them compile a list of trouble makers and assist them in intimidating and defusing one diplomate at a time rather than deal with a group of disgruntled physicians all at once.

This is fascinating stuff. So who is the ABMS? Anybody know anything about them? I keep on getting up my hopes up that I won't have to do this stupid MOC business, and alas, it never sticks. Kind of a lame response by ABPN, though, and interesting that they've waited this long to pull that card. I'm guessing it's a little stressful there right now after the ABIM scandal.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

OK, looked up the ABMS -- apparently its board is made up of representatives from all the specialty boards, so it's not so easy for individual boards to totally pass the buck on this to ABMS. They are ABMS. Also, ABMS has a lot of products that are tied up in the MOC system and in verification of participation in MOC and board certification. So, duh, they don't want to change things. They also have a big foundation, which I'm guessing involves a lot of money.

 

[Ceke2002]

Why on earth do you guys have so many different boards? One's not enough?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Why on earth do you guys have so many different boards? One's not enough?

Each medical specialty has their own board. ABMS is the combination of all these medical specialty boards. NBPAS is the new rebel board that was formed in protest to the boards, which are essentially a monopoly. Board certification used to be this extra totally optional thing that is now becoming almost a default to practice (well, to get clinical privileges, lots of jobs, etc). So we essentially feel as if we need to be licensed by our state medical board and board certified to practice -- two governing bodies, lots of paperwork, lots of hassles, lots of increasing requirements.

How is it done in Australia?

 

[Ceke2002]

Each medical specialty has their own board. ABMS is the combination of all these medical specialty boards. NBPAS is the new rebel board that was formed in protest to the boards, which are essentially a monopoly. Board certification used to be this extra totally optional thing that is now becoming almost a default to practice (well, to get clinical privileges, lots of jobs, etc). So we essentially feel as if we need to be licensed by our state medical board and board certified to practice -- two governing bodies, lots of paperwork, lots of hassles, lots of increasing requirements.

How is it done in Australia?

Wow, that sounds...complicated.

Here you're a Fellow of whatever the appropriate 'Royal' college is - so my Psychiatrist is a Fellow of The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists (FRANZCP), my GP is a Fellow of The Royal Australian College of General Practitioners (FRACGP), and so on.

Edited to add: I forgot to include that we do also have a medical board and a regulation agency here as well, that you have to be registered with in order to practice. At the top you have AHPRA (Australian Health Practitioners Regulation Agency) which overseas all boards (medical board, nursing, psychology, etc etc). Then in terms of Doctors (those with an MBBS or more recently an MD title) they have to register with the Australian Medical Board (again which is regulated/overseen by AHPRA) in order to be allowed to legally practice medicine and have a medicare provider number. Specialists, such as Psychiatrists are required to undergo the required training from their specific college, and to be accepted as a Fellow of that college, before they can be listed as a specialist on their registration with the Australian Medical Board.

For example, my Psychiatrist is registered something similar to this:

Dr _______

Profession: Medical Practitioner
Registration number: xxxxxxxxx
Status: Registered
Registration expiry date: xx/xx/xxxx
Principal place of practice: Somewhere in South Australia
Registration Type: General
Registration Type: Specialist
Specialty: Psychiatrist
Qualifications: MB BS Adelaide, FRANZCP

 

[masterofmonkeys]

As I get older and more infirm, my already thin amount of patience for bureaucratic helminths is flagging steadily. It wouldn't take much for me to do the two finger salute and skedaddle on out.

 

[jettavr6]

http://www.newsweek.com/certified-medical-controversy-320495?piano_t=1

We need to take the same stance with regards to the ABPN. If not, the requirements thrust upon us, will only get worse

 

[Shikima]

It's not getting any better folks!

http://www.newsweek.com/certified-medical-controversy-320495

 

[F0nzie]

It's not getting any better folks!

http://www.newsweek.com/certified-medical-controversy-320495

This writer failed to mention anything about lifelong learning

 

[Shikima]

I think he's writing it as a non-practitioner as his wife is one. I'll give him a pass.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

It's not getting any better folks!

http://www.newsweek.com/certified-medical-controversy-320495

Wow. I thought ABIM's statement about his wife being a doctor was a low blow. Doctors and people involved with doctors have no right to comment on these things?

 

[peppy]

Anyone know off hand how this compares to the expectations of CME for NPs and PAs? If it's not safe for a physician to practice without hours upon hours of CME, then surely it is even more dangerous for someone with less training to practice without having at least as much or more CME.