Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery vs Orthopedic Surgery

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Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery vs Orthopedic Surgery

  • Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery

    Votes: 44 64.7%
  • Orthopedic Surgery

    Votes: 24 35.3%

  • Total voters
    68
D

deleted662474

Which is the harder specialty to match into? I have shadowed an oral surgeon and an orthopedic surgeon and really enjoyed both. I'm still in undergrad and will most likely graduate with a 3.4-3.5 gpa. This is the average of my cc and university gpa. I know it's low for MD schools, but I don't mind going to a DO school if I can still specialize in orthopedic surgery in the end. If I had the choice, I would pick orthopedic surgery over oral surgery. I know these two specialties are very competitive and there is a good chance I won't get into either of them. This is why I took the time to decide between general dentistry and primary care. I know for a fact that I would much rather be a general dentist than a primary care doc. This is where I'm stuck. I don't know if I should go to medical school and hopefully match into an orthopedic surgery residency or go to dental school and try match into an omfs residency, but if I don't, I would still be satisfied with general dentistry. What do you folks recommend I do? Thank you for your time.

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If you're going into med school with the sole purpose of going into ortho, I'd have to recommend dentistry. I'm not saying you can't match into ortho but medicine is far more complicated than simply choosing a specialty and working towards it especially since the road is long and tiring and you haven't experienced what a real doctor does (no matter how much time you spent shadowing).
You being satisfied with general dentistry is a strong reason for you to NOT go into med school. This is said a lot but really you should only do medicine if you can't see yourself doing anything else.
 
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So its...

medical school ---> fail to match Ortho ---> unhappy doing anything else
dental school ---> fail to match OMFS ---> happy doing general dentistry?

Sounds like the second option is best. Ortho is not an easy match and if you'd be unhappy doing anything else in medicine, then it sounds like a miserable option.
 
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OTH, chances are you'll find something else in medicine that you enjoy if you aren't competitive for ortho, but if you go to dentistry as a "safe" choice you'll be unhappy with the what-ifs - especially given your screen-name.

Other thing to consider: do you do better at grades or standardized exams (e.g. MCAT)? Because to get OMFS as a dental student you'll typically have to be ~top 5% in your grades in dental school. On the other hand, in med school the standardized exam (USMLE) is the main quantitative factor in what residency you can obtain.

*or so I've read. research it if you want.
 
OMF's are 'double doctors' just be prepared for a long ass haul to practice.

Also, I know people get their crap together in grad school sometimes even with lackluster undergrad performance, but people need to realize that matching into competitive specialties is... competitive. You're competing with some of the smartest people that go to medical school when you're on the pointy end of that stick.

I don't think it's a smart idea going into an experience like this deciding that's what you're going to do especially if everything else in your application thus far doesn't trend that way.

I wonder if there's data on college gpa and match stuff.

It's like everyone wants to match all the sexy fields and it doesn't seem realistic if your performance hasn't been at that caliber...
 
OTH, chances are you'll find something else in medicine that you enjoy if you aren't competitive for ortho,

Uhh...no. That is not the mentality one should have going into med school.

OP said he would rather be a general dentist compared to being a PCP. Also a lot of dental specialties (endo, perio, etc) do procedures, so if it's the procedural aspect of surgery that he likes, there's plenty to do in dentistry that would satisfy that (even general dentistry).
 
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Uhh...no. That is not the mentality one should have going into med school.

OP said he would rather be a general dentist compared to being a PCP. Also a lot of dental specialties (endo, perio, etc) do procedures, so if it's the procedural aspect of surgery that he likes, there's plenty to do in dentistry that would satisfy that (even general dentistry).
I agree.
 
If you're actually happy with the prospect of doing general dentistry, seriously go be a dentist and never look back. It's a pretty sweet gig.

My situation was the complete opposite of yours. I couldn't stand the idea of general dentistry for 40 years and only would've been happy as an OMFS. I'd like to specialize in a surgical field in medicine as well, but I'm fine with some of the less competitive specialties and even IM because I can subspecialize.
 
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Uhh...no. That is not the mentality one should have going into med school.

OP said he would rather be a general dentist compared to being a PCP. Also a lot of dental specialties (endo, perio, etc) do procedures, so if it's the procedural aspect of surgery that he likes, there's plenty to do in dentistry that would satisfy that (even general dentistry).

Isn't it though?

Everyone seems to want to do something uber competitive. Sure, it's good to set your sights high but come on people should be realistic.

I guess step 1 scores serve that function.

There's a Ronnie Coleman quote I really like:

"Errybody wanna to be a body builder but nobody wanna lift no heavy ass weights."
 
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Uhh...no. That is not the mentality one should have going into med school.

OP said he would rather be a general dentist compared to being a PCP. Also a lot of dental specialties (endo, perio, etc) do procedures, so if it's the procedural aspect of surgery that he likes, there's plenty to do in dentistry that would satisfy that (even general dentistry).

I'm convinced you're correct for the general case and I get where you're coming from and it's an idea expounded often here. But if he was my brother I would still give him my earlier advice. He chose the two most high paid jobs in medicine and dentistry, respectively. He doesn't know what he wants but has this vague dream of being a surgeon "BornToBeASurgeon" and he's considering general densistry AFTER realizing how difficult OMFS/Ortho is to obtain. So it comes down to (A) telling someone to do his backup because it's "safer" and (B) I think he has a higher chance of getting ortho than OMFS considering how grade-obsessed OMFS residency admissions are. Maybe if he can tell us how sure he is that he would like dentistry over family medicine, rehab medicine, psychiatry, pediatrics, internal, etc it would change my opinion. Even community general surgery residency is attainable to the upper third of med students I should think (a guess).
 
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Maybe if he can tell us how sure he is that he would like dentistry over family medicine, rehab medicine, psychiatry, pediatrics, internal, etc it would change my opinion. Even community general surgery residency is attainable to the upper third of med students I should think

Even if he could be sure he can get into general surgery, it might not suit his needs.

I think that the fact that he is interested in these two fields shows an excellent appreciation of what both of these fields are like. They are more similar than some might assume at first glance.

There is no overlap between ortho and oral surgery anatomically, but an almost complete conceptual overlap, in that both reconstruct bone and soft tissue in order to achieve functional improvement. Oral surgery also includes an aesthetic component, as does dentistry. Dentistry similarly reconstructs hard and soft tissues, although it's limited to the teeth and gums. So if the reconstructive element is what is attracting you to those fields, OP, I agree with your choices. If you were to go to medical school, you could also consider going into plastic surgery, which almost completely overlaps oral surgery, although you wouldn't deal with teeth and you would need an additional fellowship. Plastics also completely overlaps Ortho in the hand. You could similarly do the facial surgery via the ENT route. Both, however, are just about as competitive as ortho, so neither would be a practical alternative if you don't have the grades for ortho.

medical school ---> fail to match Ortho ---> unhappy doing anything else
dental school ---> fail to match OMFS ---> happy doing general dentistry?
Sounds like the second option is best. Ortho is not an easy match and if you'd be unhappy doing anything else in medicine, then it sounds like a miserable option.


OP, I agree with this completey. BUT you have to be absolutely sure that you will prefer dentistry to a non-surgical field.

However, since you have only shadowed for what I assume is a relatively brief time, and you haven't been to either medical school or dental school, I would be careful about making lifetime decisions based on limited information.

If you do go to dental school, and try for oral surgery , you will need to take the medical Step 1 exam, in addition to the dental boards, so if you do go to dental school, study for and take the step 1 exam after your second year of dental school, at the same time that you take the dental exams. Otherwise you will have to study again and take Step 1 years later.

How hard are the specialties to get into?

Oral surgery : I don't know exactly, but apparently very difficult, although I was told orthodontics is even harder to get into.

Orthopedics: Almost the hardest to get into ( pretty much tied with derm and plastics for most difficult). You will need to score in the top 5-10% to be competitive, and do research. ENT is just as competitive, and the other surgical specialties are not so far behind.

By the way, from what I hear, oral surgeons can make way more money than most MDs, and that includes ortho and plastics.
 
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Isn't it though?

Everyone seems to want to do something uber competitive. Sure, it's good to set your sights high but come on people should be realistic.

I guess step 1 scores serve that function.

There's a Ronnie Coleman quote I really like:

"Everyone wants to be a body builder but nobody wanna lift no heavy ass weights."

There's a big difference between "I want to be an orthopedic surgeon and I think I'd be miserable in any other medical field" vs "I want to be an orthopedic surgeon but I'm open to other things as well." The latter seems to be OP's mentality towards dentistry/OMFS. The former is OP's mentality towards medicine/ortho.

And yes, it's entirely possible that OP could get into medical school and find something else that he/she likes. But telling someone who is "ortho or bust" from the get-go to go $300,000 in debt with all his eggs in one basket for matching one of the most competitive specialties is not the way one should decide to go to medical school.

Not everyone wants to do something competitive. Nothing competitive has ever been on my mind. And while my class has a fair share of people going for neurosurgery, ortho, ophtho, rads, etc, we have a larger share of people wanting peds and IM. And everything in between.
 
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Right, but I'm always skeptical of someone with the xyz specialty or bust mentality because ummm how much of medicine has the person really experienced.

I've had some really enlightening surgery vs medicine conversations with attendings I've worked with and how they decided. It's very different than someone with next to no experience and still in college talking in such bogus absolutes.
 
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Right, but I'm always skeptical of someone with the xyz specialty or bust mentality because ummm how much of medicine has the person really experienced.

I am too. It's pretty rare to see an applicant (at my school at least) who has only shadowed/volunteered in one specialty, but it would raise an eyebrow. It's not good to be so one-dimensional. An exception might be the couple times I've seen an applicant who had a parent in the field they're interested in (that they would continue the practice), has done research in the field and extensive exposure to the field...that person is pretty likely to stay on course. I still think that person should show openness, as they're going to med school to be a doctor, not to be an ophthalmologist or ENT or some sub-specialist.
 
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It's pretty rare to see an applicant (at my school at least) who has only shadowed/volunteered in one specialty, but it would raise an eyebrow. .
Is it necessary to get exposure to different fields as a premed? What if you volunteer for a year in a cancer hospital?
 
Is it necessary to get exposure to different fields as a premed? What if you volunteer for a year in a cancer hospital?

Nothing is "necessary," but you should get as much exposure as you can. Shadow people in different fields. Shadow surgery, shadow outpatient primary care, shadow inpatient medicine. Most people change their minds about what they want to do, so it's good to show that you are open to different things. And it's harder to show that if your only exposure is with oncology.
 
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Is it necessary to get exposure to different fields as a premed? What if you volunteer for a year in a cancer hospital?
Cancer is a multidisciplinary set of diseases. At your Center you will have the opportunity to see physicians practicing in just about every field with only modest effort (including primary care specialties!).
 
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I am too. It's pretty rare to see an applicant (at my school at least) who has only shadowed/volunteered in one specialty, but it would raise an eyebrow. It's not good to be so one-dimensional. An exception might be the couple times I've seen an applicant who had a parent in the field they're interested in (that they would continue the practice), has done research in the field and extensive exposure to the field...that person is pretty likely to stay on course. I still think that person should show openness, as they're going to med school to be a doctor, not to be an ophthalmologist or ENT or some sub-specialist.

Yeah, my background is pretty different than the average person applying straight from undergrad, but the only thing I know for certain is that the more I experience the more questions I have and the more I realize that I know next to nothing and it's kind of funny because even the attendings talk about the limits of their knowledge pretty often, mostly since the field doesn't have all the answers.

I'm much more interested in surgical specialties and have research, pubs, etc etc etc. Still no idea which one though. I'm going to try to shadow a few other specialties while I'm still at this hospital since I have OR access and just need the surgeons permission. Might try to get into OR's for: Gensurg, neuro, cardiothoracic, and maybe cardiac.

I should probably make it a point to go into a trauma case or two while I'm still here.
 
Even if he could be sure he can get into general surgery, it might not suit his needs.

I think that the fact that he is interested in these two fields shows an excellent appreciation of what both of these fields are like. They are more similar than some might assume at first glance.

There is no overlap between ortho and oral surgery anatomically, but an almost complete conceptual overlap, in that both reconstruct bone and soft tissue in order to achieve functional improvement. Oral surgery also includes an aesthetic component, as does dentistry. Dentistry similarly reconstructs hard and soft tissues, although it's limited to the teeth and gums. So if the reconstructive element is what is attracting you to those fields, OP, I agree with your choices. If you were to go to medical school, you could also consider going into plastic surgery, which almost completely overlaps oral surgery, although you wouldn't deal with teeth and you would need an additional fellowship. Plastics also completely overlaps Ortho in the hand. You could similarly do the facial surgery via the ENT route. Both, however, are just about as competitive as ortho, so neither would be a practical alternative if you don't have the grades for ortho.




OP, I agree with this completey. BUT you have to be absolutely sure that you will prefer dentistry to a non-surgical field.

However, since you have only shadowed for what I assume is a relatively brief time, and you haven't been to either medical school or dental school, I would be careful about making lifetime decisions based on limited information.

If you do go to dental school, and try for oral surgery , you will need to take the medical Step 1 exam, in addition to the dental boards, so if you do go to dental school, study for and take the step 1 exam after your second year of dental school, at the same time that you take the dental exams. Otherwise you will have to study again and take Step 1 years later.

How hard are the specialties to get into?

Oral surgery : I don't know exactly, but apparently very difficult, although I was told orthodontics is even harder to get into.

Orthopedics: Almost the hardest to get into ( pretty much tied with derm and plastics for most difficult). You will need to score in the top 5-10% to be competitive, and do research. ENT is just as competitive, and the other surgical specialties are not so far behind.

By the way, from what I hear, oral surgeons can make way more money than most MDs, and that includes ortho and plastics.
This is a great post, thank you. You have listed the exact reasons why I'm considering both of these specialties. I haven't given plastic surgery much thought, but I have been interested in orthopedic surgery for a very long time because my favorite hobbies are bodybuilding and powerlifting, and I have been injured many times. I want to work in a surgical field because I know I'm a perfectionist, want to work with my hands and also because I want to find the problem someone is having and fix it right away. I'm particularly interested in the reconstruction of bones and soft tissue. I'm considering oral surgery and orthopedic surgery because, like you said, both reconstruct bone and soft tissue in order to achieve functional improvement. I'll try my best to get into either one, but if it doesn't work out, I'll still be satisfied with general dentistry because it allows me to do everything that I enjoy, which is again, be a perfectionist, work with my hands and see the problem and fix it right away. The only downside with general dentistry is that it's limited to the teeth and gums.
 
This is a great post. You listed the exact reasons why I'm considering both of these specialties. I haven't given plastic surgery much thought, but I have been interested in orthopedic surgery for a very long time because my favorite hobbies are bodybuilding and powerlifting, and I have been injured many times. I want to work in a surgical field because I know I'm a perfectionist, want to work with my hands and also because I want to find the problem someone is having and fix it right away. I'm particularly interested in the reconstruction of bones and soft tissue. I'm considering oral surgery and orthopedic surgery because, like you said, both reconstruct bone and soft tissue in order to achieve functional improvement. I'll try my best to get into either one, but if it doesn't work out, I'll still be satisfied with general dentistry because it allows me to do everything that I enjoy, which is again, be a perfectionist, work with my hands and see the problem and fix it right away. The only downside with general dentistry is that it's limited to the teeth and gums.
Surgery is hard on perfectionists.
 
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I'm convinced you're correct for the general case and I get where you're coming from and it's an idea expounded often here. But if he was my brother I would still give him my earlier advice. He chose the two most high paid jobs in medicine and dentistry, respectively. He doesn't know what he wants but has this vague dream of being a surgeon "BornToBeASurgeon" and he's considering general densistry AFTER realizing how difficult OMFS/Ortho is to obtain. So it comes down to (A) telling someone to do his backup because it's "safer" and (B) I think he has a higher chance of getting ortho than OMFS considering how grade-obsessed OMFS residency admissions are. Maybe if he can tell us how sure he is that he would like dentistry over family medicine, rehab medicine, psychiatry, pediatrics, internal, etc it would change my opinion. Even community general surgery residency is attainable to the upper third of med students I should think (a guess).
Check my post above to see why I'll like dentistry over all the options you mentioned. I never really cared too much about general surgery, not sure why.
 
Why is that?
Perfectionists often have trouble managing time and prioritizing the relative importance of each aspect of the case.
Their internal experience of perfection seems to supersede the actual reason for the surgery.
Everything else being equal, shorter OR times are associated with fewer problems. I think you can see the difficulty.
Perfect is the enemy of the good.
 
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I have been interested in orthopedic surgery for a very long time because my favorite hobbies are bodybuilding ........... The only downside with general dentistry is that it's limited to the teeth and gums.

The cliches are true, lots of jocks in ortho, but not all orthopods are jocks and that's not really a good reason to go into ortho.

Yes, dentistry is limited to teeth but in the end, all fields are limited. The problem with dentistry is that you're choosing your specialty ( teeth) when you start, so it seems more limited. An oral surgeon told me once that if dentistry were a subspecialty of medicine it wold be the most desirable specialty. He's probably right. But you need to be sure before you start.
 
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Perfectionists often have trouble managing time and prioritizing the relative importance of each aspect of the case.
Their internal experience of perfection seems to supersede the actual reason for the surgery.
Everything else being equal, shorter OR times are associated with fewer problems. I think you can see the difficulty.
Perfect is the enemy of the good.
With a 5 year residency for training, I'm sure I can learn to be as productive as I need to be during surgeries, no? I agree that being too much of a perfectionist is bad for the reasons you listed, but I also think that doing a bad job because you rushed through a surgery isn't good either.
 
With a 5 year residency for training, I'm sure I can learn to be as productive as I need to be during surgeries, no? I agree that being too much of a perfectionist is bad for the reasons you listed, but I also think that doing a bad job because you rushed through a surgery isn't good either.
No, you'd be surprised at the surgeons who maintain those tendencies despite the training.

These are the guys doing 3 hour routine lap choles, 7 hour melanoma excisions, 12 hour esophagectomies. I had the displeasure of doing the last during training with a surgical oncologist who simply could not be satisfied with each step of the operation before moving on. Its not good for the patient (or the junior resident; fortunately as a Chief resident I had the support I needed to refuse to cover his cases).
 
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No, you'd be surprised at the surgeons who maintain those tendencies despite the training.

These are the guys doing 3 hour routine lap choles, 7 hour melanoma excisions, 12 hour esophagectomies. I had the displeasure of doing the last during training with a surgical oncologist who simply could not be satisfied with each step of the operation before moving on. Its not good for the patient (or the junior resident; fortunately as a Chief resident I had the support I needed to refuse to cover his cases).
So I won't be able to do surgery because of my perfectionist tendencies and there is no way of changing them? Then what would you recommend I do?
 
So I won't be able to do surgery because of my perfectionist tendencies and there is no way of changing them? Then what would you recommend I do?
We never said that.

Being detail oriented is good and essentially a requirement for a physician. Being a perfectionist is not.

A perfectionist is someone who refuses to accept anything less than perfect. You run into trouble because its impossible to be perfect all or even some of the time. Patient's physiology isn't perfect. You aren't perfect. When you set unrealistic goals, maladaptive behaviors set in which can harm the patient and you. Perfectionists are difficult to work with because their unattainable standards are extrapolated to others. You need to realize when "good enough" is "good enough". As @gyngyn noted, a common phrase in surgery is, "the enemy of good is better".

Contemporary psychology teaches us a fair bit about these tendencies and both the positive and negative aspects of perfectionism. Any basic psych text will introduce you to these concepts and what you can do.
 
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Is it necessary to get exposure to different fields as a premed? What if you volunteer for a year in a cancer hospital?
No you don't have to do it, but you should want to. Seeing many different specialties can show you how different careers in medicine can be and might expose you to a few specialties of interest you wouldn't have been exposed to before. Even in medical school, often times you will only get exposure to specialties you really seek out so it helps to have at least a general idea of what you want to look into prior to starting. For example, my school gives you a grand total of 2 electives third year. That's only 2 fields to get involved in outside the core fields (surgery, ob/gyn, peds, IM, psych, neuro, etc), and then you're a fourth year applying to residencies. Multiple shadowing experiences help you pick those fields that you want further exposure in (of course you can shadow as an M1/M2 as well, but you have less time than you did as a premed).
 
"The enemy of good is better". True, but the other enemy of good is "not good enough".

This is primarily a semantic distinction, of no real consequence, but I'm going to speak in defense of perfectionism here, and take the liberty of speaking on behalf of OP.

Too perfect depends on the case. If you're closing the abdomen on an unstable trauma case, you shouldn't waste time on a doing a perfect cosmetic skin closure. But if you're doing a cardiac bypass, or a microsurgery anastamosis, or a cosmetic case ( whether plastic surgery or dental ) perfection is essential to the case and goes with the territory.

These are the guys doing 3 hour routine lap choles, 7 hour melanoma excisions, 12 hour esophagectomies. I had the displeasure of doing the last during training with a surgical oncologist who simply could not be satisfied with each step of the operation before moving on. Its not good for the patient (or the junior resident; fortunately as a Chief resident I had the support I needed to refuse to cover his cases).

Oh, yeah, I trained under some guys like that. I could tell you some great stories, but I'll be typing all day. I will say that the worst surgeon I worked with wasn't the slow, bumbling one. It was the super fast excellent technician who did his cases just a little faster than he was capable of doing them. But I digress..

Someone who takes 3 hours for a gallbladder every time is not a perfectionist, although that may be what he thinks. He's just not a good surgeon, most likely because he lacks the confidence to move on. He's just not cut out for surgery.

Perfection doesn't require more time, it just takes the proper amount of time. Doing it perfectly can be done fast, it just needs to be done right. All surgeons are perfectionists. I don't think that any one surgical specialty requires more perfection than any other. Hemostasis always has to be perfect, or you'll be back. The bowel anastamosis has to be perfect. Not pretty, necessarily, but perfect, i.e. sealed. No leak.

Perhaps it's that some surgeons want the challenge of having to be perfect on a finer scale: No just a perfect bowel anstamosis with 4-0 silk ( yes, I know , you staple. I'm taking some poetic license ) but maybe a perfect fem-pop with 6-0 prolene, or a finger replant with 10-0 nylon, or a cornea repair with 11-0.

In dentistry, or oral surgery, there's a functional component as well, and that is a poor bite. If the filling isn't perfect, or the mandible fracture reduction isn't perfect, the patient will know it. They will be miserable. If the color on a veneer is off, everyone sees it. The reward, though, as the dentist, is that when it's right, you get to admire it. (My dentist loves admiring the chip he repaired on my front upper incisor,every time I come in for a cleaning ) That's another feature, I think, of some "perfectionist" specialties. You get to admire your work. In ortho, you get to admire the fracture reduction. Orthopods love to show off their xrays, just like plastic surgeons enjoy their before-and-after pictures. But in ortho, if a fracture is slightly off, sometimes the consequences are insignificant. Not so in dentistry or oral surgery. The patient will be miserable if the bite isn't perfect, every single time. On the other hand, general surgeons don't get to admire their bowel anastamoses, except to the extent that their patients aren't septic. Barium enemas just aren't as pretty to look at.

I trained under one guy, a great surgeon, but a bit prickly. He would leave me to close, and when he came back in to check , he would ask how it was going. The first few times I made the mistake of saying "pretty good". He would say"take out all the sutures and start over. We're not "pretty good surgeons. We're better than that". He did that to all the residents. But he was right. We always did it better the second time around. And you know, when it really was perfect, we didn't say it was "pretty good". We said, "it's great".
 
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Check my post above to see why I'll like dentistry over all the options you mentioned. I never really cared too much about general surgery, not sure why.

My opinion is just "you don't know what you don't know." (Thing is, I can understand pre-meds having a general field in mind: e.g. medicine vs. surgery vs. dentistry, but not being convinced of what sub-specialties they want.) But if you're so sure, than I'll change my "vote" and suggest dentistry as well.
 
This perfectionist conversation is so freaking spot on. I know a surgeon that is incredibly high ranking but has OCD tendencies.... He dies a thousand deaths every case and is freaking out and doesn't let residents or fellows touch his patients. Another attending threatened to hit him during a case because he came over to the other side of the table to 'help' (aka do his part of the procedure).

He's one of the best technical surgeons in the field and a research powerhouse.

It's way more stressful on him than it needs to be... I mean.... It's already spine surgery...

Perfect really is the enemy of good. You have to know that your outcomes won't always be perfect and that complications occur sometimes. Being able to roll with the punches is better than trying to control every single little detail that you have no control over.
 
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Worry about getting into dental or medical school first, then worry about specialty. By the end of year III, most of my students only know what they DON'T want to do!


Which is the harder specialty to match into? I have shadowed an oral surgeon and an orthopedic surgeon and really enjoyed both. I'm still in undergrad and will most likely graduate with a 3.4-3.5 gpa. This is the average of my cc and university gpa. I know it's low for MD schools, but I don't mind going to a DO school if I can still specialize in orthopedic surgery in the end. If I had the choice, I would pick orthopedic surgery over oral surgery. I know these two specialties are very competitive and there is a good chance I won't get into either of them. This is why I took the time to decide between general dentistry and primary care. I know for a fact that I would much rather be a general dentist than a primary care doc. This is where I'm stuck. I don't know if I should go to medical school and hopefully match into an orthopedic surgery residency or go to dental school and try match into an omfs residency, but if I don't, I would still be satisfied with general dentistry. What do you folks recommend I do? Thank you for your time.
 
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Being a perfectionist is also not conducive to being a good medical student. If you try to learn everything, you end up learning nothing.


We never said that.

Being detail oriented is good and essentially a requirement for a physician. Being a perfectionist is not.

A perfectionist is someone who refuses to accept anything less than perfect. You run into trouble because its impossible to be perfect all or even some of the time. Patient's physiology isn't perfect. You aren't perfect. When you set unrealistic goals, maladaptive behaviors set in which can harm the patient and you. Perfectionists are difficult to work with because their unattainable standards are extrapolated to others. You need to realize when "good enough" is "good enough". As @gyngyn noted, a common phrase in surgery is, "the enemy of good is better".

Contemporary psychology teaches us a fair bit about these tendencies and both the positive and negative aspects of perfectionism. Any basic psych text will introduce you to these concepts and what you can do.
 
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Actually, that story about the two surgeons almost getting into a fight in the OR is pretty hilarious because they're really good friends in real life (i.e. ortho breaux), but one of them was legitimately pissed at the other for trying to do his portion of the procedure. Many choice words were shared. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall. I bet it was hilarious.
 
My vote is for dentistry. I, too, struggled between medicine and dentistry, albeit I made my decision while still in high school. I knew that I would enjoy the surgical aspect of both professions, but dentistry seemed like such a natural choice for me. All dentists are trained as surgeons, whereas only a small percentage of doctors go into a surgical specialty, and after many years of training. Plus dentists get Fridays off for golf!

I want to point out that while OMFS is a highly competitive field, you only "need" to be in the top 1/3 to march into a good residency program. That being said, it's true that these programs tend to be obsessed with numbers. If you're good with standardized tests and think that you can pull off stellar boards scores (the dental boards are pass/fail but OMFS applicants take the CBSE as well), then you have a decent shot at matching. By the way, I could also see you being happy with other highly-surgical dental specialties (mainly perio).
 
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My vote is for dentistry. I, too, struggled between medicine and dentistry, albeit I made my decision while still in high school. I knew that I would enjoy the surgical aspect of both professions, but dentistry seemed like such a natural choice for me. All dentists are trained as surgeons, whereas only a small percentage of doctors go into a surgical specialty, and after many years of training. Plus dentists get Fridays off for golf!

I want to point out that while OMFS is a highly competitive field, you only "need" to be in the top 1/3 to march into a good residency program. That being said, it's true that these programs tend to be obsessed with numbers. If you're good with standardized tests and think that you can pull off stellar boards scores (the dental boards are pass/fail but OMFS applicants take the CBSE as well), then you have a decent shot at matching. By the way, I could also see you being happy with other highly-surgical dental specialties (mainly perio).

Lol at getting Friday off for golf :D
 
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Simple: OMFS requires a dental degree before you can be admitted (with one or two exceptions that are EXTREMELY competitive). If you get in to OMFS, continue to medical school. If not, be a dental surgeon.

Ortho is among the most difficult medical specialties to match.
 
Ortho is among the most difficult medical specialties to match.
I shadowed my ortho surgeon last week and he made it sound like it was so easy to match into ortho. I gave him the famous Bert stare
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My vote is for dentistry. I, too, struggled between medicine and dentistry, albeit I made my decision while still in high school. I knew that I would enjoy the surgical aspect of both professions, but dentistry seemed like such a natural choice for me. All dentists are trained as surgeons, whereas only a small percentage of doctors go into a surgical specialty, and after many years of training. Plus dentists get Fridays off for golf!

I want to point out that while OMFS is a highly competitive field, you only "need" to be in the top 1/3 to march into a good residency program. That being said, it's true that these programs tend to be obsessed with numbers. If you're good with standardized tests and think that you can pull off stellar boards scores (the dental boards are pass/fail but OMFS applicants take the CBSE as well), then you have a decent shot at matching. By the way, I could also see you being happy with other highly-surgical dental specialties (mainly perio).
What if I want to play golf on Mondays? Should I still become a dentist?
 
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What if I want to play golf on Mondays? Should I still become a dentist?


Golf is boring as ****, I only go to the club with my dad when he plays if I want to 1)drink myself into a stupor during the day or 2) talk to the cute caddys- more when I was single, but whatever. Ha
 
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When asked why you wanted to be a dentist, did you respond by saying:

"Well, my dad is a dentist so I think that I know what the profession is like."
 
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I don't think it is as difficult to go OMFS as Ortho. There are a handful of elite programs that are tough to break into...but there are ton of mediocre to bad ones that one can get into with determination and patience. Having said that...

Go medicine. OMFS is way different than the other dental specialties...way different...and if you don't end up matching OMFS you will be doing something completely non surgical... I almost fell into this trap, i destroyed undergrad but simply loathed dental school and couldn't bring myself to excel...i almost got stuck doing something i couldn't stand, but then fate created the nbme...at least in medicine you still have multiple surgery options even if ortho doesn't work out
 
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I don't think it is as difficult to go OMFS as Ortho. There are a handful of elite programs that are tough to break into...but there are ton of mediocre to bad ones that one can get into with determination and patience. Having said that...

Go medicine. OMFS is way different than the other dental specialties...way different...and if you don't end up matching OMFS you will be doing something completely non surgical... I almost fell into this trap, i destroyed undergrad but simply loathed dental school and couldn't bring myself to excel...i almost got stuck doing something i couldn't stand, but then fate created the nbme...at least in medicine you still have multiple surgery options even if ortho doesn't work out
I've recently been toying around with the idea of doing PA school and specializing in ortho surgery. This way I can be sure that I'll be able to work in the specialty I want. I would want to go to med school, but I'm not sure how well I'll do compared to others and I don't want to be forced to do something else I'm not interested in. My passion is in ortho, so if I'm going to be in school for many years, I would much rather be learning something I'm passionate about.
 
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