Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Center Fellowship

[dpmgrad]

I thought that this would be interesting to share. My residency program received a mailing from the Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Fellowship in Columbus, OH earlier this week. The purpose of the letter was to inform the residency programs that the Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Center Fellowship in Columbus, OH is officially open to DPMs. In addition to the 2 MD/DO fellowship positions, they will also have a 3rd position for DPM only each year. In the past, this Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Fellowship have taken a few DPMs if there are positions unfilled. You can read more about the Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Center Fellowship in Columbus, OH at http://www.orthofootankle.com/sections/Default/FellowshipInformation.asp

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[Dr_Feelgood]

I thought that this would be interesting to share. My residency program received a mailing from the Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Fellowship in Columbus, OH earlier this week. The purpose of the letter was to inform the residency programs that the Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Center Fellowship in Columbus, OH is officially open to DPMs. In addition to the 2 MD/DO fellowship positions, they will also have a 3rd position for DPM only each year. In the past, this Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Fellowship have taken a few DPMs if there are positions unfilled. You can read more about the Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Center Fellowship in Columbus, OH at http://www.orthofootankle.com/sections/Default/FellowshipInformation.asp

That is great this is the third ortho fellowsip that I know of that is for DPMs.

 

[dpmgrad]

That is great this is the third ortho fellowsip that I know of that is for DPMs.

Besides the Foot and Ankle Fellowship in Columbus, OH and UPMC, which is the third Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Fellowship that is open to DPMs?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Besides the Foot and Ankle Fellowship in Columbus, OH and UPMC, which is the third Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Fellowship that is open to DPMs?

They are not all foot and ankle fellowhips:

University of Pittsburgh - Foot and Ankle
University of Louisville - Trauma

 

[cool_vkb]

Besides the Foot and Ankle Fellowship in Columbus, OH and UPMC, which is the third Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Fellowship that is open to DPMs?

Just for my knowledge and motivation. What are the benefits of doing an ortho F & A fellowship compared to regular DPM-Fellowships.

 

[Feli]

They are not all foot and ankle fellowhips:

University of Pittsburgh - Foot and Ankle
University of Louisville - Trauma

I'm pretty certain that Dr. Paley's fellowship in Baltimore has also taken qualified DPMs before.
That might be only when it goes unfilled, though...?

This news of OSU's ortho F&A slot for a DPM is great. That sounds like a very nice opportunity for additional training after residency.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I'm pretty certain that Dr. Paley's fellowship in Baltimore has also taken qualified DPMs before.
That might be only when it goes unfilled, though...?

This news of OSU's ortho F&A slot for a DPM is great. That sounds like a very nice opportunity for additional training after residency.

You are correct. That is all due to the hardwork of Dr. Lamm.

 

[krabmas]

You are correct. That is all due to the hardwork of Dr. Lamm.

I know a graduate of NYCPM did the Rubin Institute of Advanced Orthopedics (Paley and Lamm's program in Baltimore) fellowship. I think they will take DPMs along side MDs.

At least one of the PA programs rotates thru for a few months during residency.

 

[PODonny]

In light of the fact that there are only a handful of ortho foot and ankle fellowships, would it be safe to assume that there is serious competition for these positions?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

In light of the fact that there are only a handful of ortho foot and ankle fellowships, would it be safe to assume that there is serious competition for these positions?

Many of the programs promote from within first.

 

[dpmgrad]

I know a graduate of NYCPM did the Rubin Institute of Advanced Orthopedics (Paley and Lamm's program in Baltimore) fellowship. I think they will take DPMs along side MDs.

At least one of the PA programs rotates thru for a few months during residency.

Here are some of the residency programs that have residents rotating through Rubin Institute of Advanced Orthopedics:

Western Pennsylvania Hospital, Pittsburgh, PA
Crozer-Chester Medical Center, Springfield, PA
Community Medical Center, Scranton, PA
St. Rita's Medical Center, Lima, OH

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Here are some of the residency programs that have residents rotating through Rubin Institute of Advanced Orthopedics:

Western Pennsylvania Hospital, Pittsburgh, PA
Crozer-Chester Medical Center, Springfield, PA
Community Medical Center, Scranton, PA
St. Rita's Medical Center, Lima, OH

Opportunity also exists for a few other programs. At NWPRP in Seattle, third years get to choose some of their external rotations: some go to Europe to do a fellowships, others to Paley, if you get get the money ($10K) you can even scrub with Myerson, and the list goes on and on.

 

[jays2cool4u]

What are the benefits of doing an ortho F & A fellowship compared to regular DPM-Fellowships?

DPMGrad,

Can you answer the question above?

 

[krabmas]

DPMGrad,

Can you answer the question above?

If you want to work with an ortho group sometimes the residency that you pick might not lead in that direction. TO get in with ortho groups they may want you to be trained like they were and with what they know and trust. If you were trained by orthos the ortho group may be more comfortable taking you on as an associate.

 

[cool_vkb]

If you want to work with an ortho group sometimes the residency that you pick might not lead in that direction. TO get in with ortho groups they may want you to be trained like they were and with what they know and trust. If you were trained by orthos the ortho group may be more comfortable taking you on as an associate.

So when we are applying for residencies. Do some residencies have reputation for being hired by orthos or something like that. i know from SDN discussions that some residencies are more reputed for trauma while other is famous for something else. But like undergrad engineering colleges, do residencies also have repuatations associated with them in terms of job placements,etc?

And can you plzzz name some residency programs which are fav among ortho grps. The way my biochemistry class is going. i need all the motivation i can get . by the way how much GPA is considered as decent by residency programs?

 

[Feli]

So when we are applying for residencies. Do some residencies have reputation for being hired by orthos or something like that. i know from SDN discussions that some residencies are more reputed for trauma while other is famous for something else. But like undergrad engineering colleges, do residencies also have repuatations associated with them in terms of job placements,etc?

And can you plzzz name some residency programs which are fav among ortho grps. The way my biochemistry class is going. i need all the motivation i can get . by the way how much GPA is considered as decent by residency programs?

The grads of higher powered residency programs will always have more job offers simply due to rep and the attendings' connections in the field. Those programs have a good rep due to good alumni, and those alumni have paved the road for you. If a 3rd year resident from UPMC and a 2nd year from a PMS-24 no-name residency applied for the same job, it'd be no contest. Then again, the guy from UPMC would probably wouldn't be applying for jobs in the first place; he'd more likely be sorting through 10 offers and finding the one he liked best.

GPA is important but not the only thing; clerkship and interview are probably more important. You just want a GPA high enough to get your foot in the door and get the clerkships you want. In terms of what GPA that is, I don't really know, and it depends on which pod program you attend and which residencies you are trying for. At the more well regarded pod schools, you might need a 3.0+ to get all of the clerkships you want, and at lower rep pod schools, you might need more like a 3.3 or 3.5? Again, there are exceptions to every rule. There are probably 3.8gpa people who do virtually nothing but study and will have a dry personality that'll kill them on clerkships. Also, there are probably 3.1gpa people who are very involved, good at teamwork, and great with patients and co-workers. There might even be the occasional 3.5gpa person who used old tests as a crutch and fails boards; you never know.

Just do the best you can in classes right now and build good study habits and motivation to read extra above and beyond; you will learn more about residencies as you go. The only way you can cripple your residency options is if your GPA is really low or you don't pass the boards; that's pretty much game over at a lot of good programs and you will probably find yourself scrambling for the residencies nobody else wanted now that the student : residency position ratio is heading towards 1:1...

 

[cool_vkb]

The only way you can cripple your residency options is if your GPA is really low or you don't pass the boards; that's pretty much game over at a lot of good programs and you will probably find yourself scrambling for the residencies nobody else wanted now that the student : residency position ratio is heading towards 1:1...

Oh my god, even in Podiatry we have the great Scramble process. Do people regularly do this or its very rare. Many of my IMG cousins went thru Scramble process and it was so horrible, they had like 8 faxes and 3 computers in home on that day and were behaving as if they are professional call center workers calling each and every program.

Is Podiatry scramble process also like this or different?

 

[dpmgrad]

DPMGrad,

Can you answer the question above?

Krabmas answered the question.

 

[dpmgrad]

If you want to work with an ortho group sometimes the residency that you pick might not lead in that direction. TO get in with ortho groups they may want you to be trained like they were and with what they know and trust. If you were trained by orthos the ortho group may be more comfortable taking you on as an associate.

Thanks Sam for answering the question.

 

[Feli]

Oh my god, even in Podiatry we have the great Scramble process. Do people regularly do this or its very rare. Many of my IMG cousins went thru Scramble process and it was so horrible, they had like 8 faxes and 3 computers in home on that day and were behaving as if they are professional call center workers calling each and every program.

Is Podiatry scramble process also like this or different?

Residency programs and graduating pod students scramble every year. How many and what programs and students all depends on the applicant:residency ratio and which programs students are interested in.

In podiatry, I don't think scrambling is the end of the world, but your program choices will be limited to only a small fraction of what they were initially. Everyone gets a PMS-24 or PMS-36 right now to learn pod med and a variable amount of surgery. It's not like times past where residency programs were markedly different with surgical and non-surgical programs, pyramid programs, etc. This class of 2007 was a bit of an exception since the national graduating class size was so small, but a lot of quality programs went unfilled I'm sure a lot of people are quite satisfied with the programs they found in scramble. I know a couple Barry 07 grads who didn't even go to CRIPS because they knew the app:residency ratio was rediculously low and that there would be so many programs to scramble for after match. In a few years, that might not be the case, though, and scramblers could be very limited as has happened in the past...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=419918

Not passing boards can really hurt any pod student, though. Most programs require passage of pt1 and pt2 before matriculating in. There are a few people every year who can't start the residency they matched with or found in scramble because they couldn't pass boards. Those people probably shouldn't have graduated in the first place if they didn't pass even upon re-taking, but still, they did graduate, and that's a lot of stress and missed income to take a year or more off to try and re-study for board exams.

 

[krabmas]

Thanks Sam for answering the question.

No problem.

 

[krabmas]

The grads of higher powered residency programs will always have more job offers simply due to rep and the attendings' connections in the field. Those programs have a good rep due to good alumni, and those alumni have paved the road for you. If a 3rd year resident from UPMC and a 2nd year from a PMS-24 no-name residency applied for the same job, it'd be no contest. Then again, the guy from UPMC would probably wouldn't be applying for jobs in the first place; he'd more likely be sorting through 10 offers and finding the one he liked best.

GPA is important but not the only thing; clerkship and interview are probably more important. You just want a GPA high enough to get your foot in the door and get the clerkships you want. In terms of what GPA that is, I don't really know, and it depends on which pod program you attend and which residencies you are trying for. At the more well regarded pod schools, you might need a 3.0+ to get all of the clerkships you want, and at lower rep pod schools, you might need more like a 3.3 or 3.5? Again, there are exceptions to every rule. There are probably 3.8gpa people who do virtually nothing but study and will have a dry personality that'll kill them on clerkships. Also, there are probably 3.1gpa people who are very involved, good at teamwork, and great with patients and co-workers. There might even be the occasional 3.5gpa person who used old tests as a crutch and fails boards; you never know.

Just do the best you can in classes right now and build good study habits and motivation to read extra above and beyond; you will learn more about residencies as you go. The only way you can cripple your residency options is if your GPA is really low or you don't pass the boards; that's pretty much game over at a lot of good programs and you will probably find yourself scrambling for the residencies nobody else wanted now that the student : residency position ratio is heading towards 1:1...

This is very well stated.

Really you want to be in the top 10% of your class. THe top programs will pick from the top 20% or less. You will not know how other people in your class do, so it is up to you to do your best. If your grades/rank are not high enough you will not get the externships that you want, which will preclude your from interviewing with those programs.

The residency directors have been thru school and know what you learn in school vs what you should have read on your own. There are things that you'll need to know as an extern that are not taught in school. This is what will set you apart. You'll need to know what was taught in school plus this extra info. It is important to start reading journal articles and learning on your own. I'd suggest concentrating mostly on school until after Lower Extremity anatomy. After learning LEAN then you can start reading anatomical articles. These are usually about the distance of structures from other structures, such as nerves from boney prominences and ligaments from boney prominences. And depths of certain joints, or contures and spacing of joints. This advice is mostly for the schools that do not teach by way of articles.

Then after each topic in surgery you can start looking up info about procedures to read articles. Also knowing what is in McGlamry is important.

Work hard, do your best. No matter what you will look back and think you could have done better and studied more.

 

[cool_vkb]

I'd suggest concentrating mostly on school until after Lower Extremity anatomy. After learning LEAN then you can start reading anatomical articles. These are usually about the distance of structures from other structures, such as nerves from boney prominences and ligaments from boney prominences. And depths of certain joints, or contures and spacing of joints. This advice is mostly for the schools that do not teach by way of articles.

Then after each topic in surgery you can start looking up info about procedures to read articles. Also knowing what is in McGlamry is important.

Work hard, do your best. No matter what you will look back and think you could have done better and studied more.

Godbless you! thanks for the advice

 

[gustydoc]

This is very well stated.

Really you want to be in the top 10% of your class. THe top programs will pick from the top 20% or less. You will not know how other people in your class do, so it is up to you to do your best. If your grades/rank are not high enough you will not get the externships that you want, which will preclude your from interviewing with those programs.

The residency directors have been thru school and know what you learn in school vs what you should have read on your own. There are things that you'll need to know as an extern that are not taught in school. This is what will set you apart. You'll need to know what was taught in school plus this extra info. It is important to start reading journal articles and learning on your own. I'd suggest concentrating mostly on school until after Lower Extremity anatomy. After learning LEAN then you can start reading anatomical articles. These are usually about the distance of structures from other structures, such as nerves from boney prominences and ligaments from boney prominences. And depths of certain joints, or contures and spacing of joints. This advice is mostly for the schools that do not teach by way of articles.

Then after each topic in surgery you can start looking up info about procedures to read articles. Also knowing what is in McGlamry is important.

Work hard, do your best. No matter what you will look back and think you could have done better and studied more.

I agree with Sam to an extent, but I beleive the single most important factor in getting a good program is being able to spend a decent amount of time at that program. Being in the top 10% of your class is really not a prereq for getting a good program, but you should strive to make the top 50% so that you can get the externship spot you want at that program. Clearly if you didn't pay attention in school spending time at a program won't do you any good sine they will realize you don't know anything, but if you know your stuff the time you spend externing is priceless. The longer I am out on rotations, the more it becomes clear to me that you are constantly being sized up as the potential next resident whether you realize it or not. Most programs have their choices narrowed to a couple students before heading to CRIP and if you are trying to get a spot based on a 20 min interview alone you had better be one hell of a salesperson.

 

[cool_vkb]

I agree with Sam to an extent, but I beleive the single most important factor in getting a good program is being able to spend a decent amount of time at that program. Being in the top 10% of your class is really not a prereq for getting a good program, but you should strive to make the top 50% so that you can get the externship spot you want at that program. Clearly if you didn't pay attention in school spending time at a program won't do you any good sine they will realize you don't know anything, but if you know your stuff the time you spend externing is priceless. The longer I am out on rotations, the more it becomes clear to me that you are constantly being sized up as the potential next resident whether you realize it or not. Most programs have their choices narrowed to a couple students before heading to CRIP and if you are trying to get a spot based on a 20 min interview alone you had better be one hell of a salesperson.

Hey! Do Pod residency programs also offer Pre-matches like some Medical Residency programs? That will be cool right! getting offer directly in 4th yr.

 

[Feli]

Hey! Do Pod residency programs also offer Pre-matches like some Medical Residency programs? That will be cool right! getting offer directly in 4th yr.

I don't think anyone's gonna touch that question with a 10ft pole... you'll see/hear when you get to 3rd/4th year how it works.

 

[krabmas]

I agree with Sam to an extent, but I beleive the single most important factor in getting a good program is being able to spend a decent amount of time at that program. Being in the top 10% of your class is really not a prereq for getting a good program, but you should strive to make the top 50% so that you can get the externship spot you want at that program. Clearly if you didn't pay attention in school spending time at a program won't do you any good sine they will realize you don't know anything, but if you know your stuff the time you spend externing is priceless. The longer I am out on rotations, the more it becomes clear to me that you are constantly being sized up as the potential next resident whether you realize it or not. Most programs have their choices narrowed to a couple students before heading to CRIP and if you are trying to get a spot based on a 20 min interview alone you had better be one hell of a salesperson.

For DMU the top 50% is OK but for most of the other schools you need to be in th etop 10-20%. I heard this from residency program directors.

 

[krabmas]

Hey! Do Pod residency programs also offer Pre-matches like some Medical Residency programs? That will be cool right! getting offer directly in 4th yr.

I'll touch this question.

There is this thing called CRIPS - it is the Central Residency Interview Process that is put on by CASPR - Cental Application Service for Podiatric Residencies.

At some point in the 2nd or 3rd year 2 women from CASPR will come talk to you about applying to Residency programs. There will be packets of paper and deadlines to be met for applying and paying to CASPR then designating programs that you'd like to interview with. You will pick programs before even visiting most places on your list. Pick more programs than you think you'll need - about 10-15 that you think you'd like to try to visit. YOu will not visit this many most likely. But if you try to add programs later for designation it costs more money. Later, about a month before interviews you'll bet cards in the mail telling you whether you have been accepted to interview. Then you will call CASPR and set up interview appointments. Then you fly to CRIPs - the interview location and have your interviews.

The rule is that any program that does not participate in CRIPs cannot interview before CRIPs and cannot offer spots to candidates before CRIPs. Programs that participate in CRIPs cannot ask you what you will rank them, but they can tell you where they will rank you. Some programs change their rankings, some do not, some flat out lie. Some programs will call you and ask for you to sign a contract and drop out of CRIPs/Match - also illegal.

Every year there are programs that do not play be the rules. You will start to hear about these programs throughout the years of school. Sometimes the programs get put on probation.

 

[cool_vkb]

I'll touch this question.

There is this thing called CRIPS - it is the Central Residency Interview Process that is put on by CASPR - Cental Application Service for Podiatric Residencies.

At some point in the 2nd or 3rd year 2 women from CASPR will come talk to you about applying to Residency programs. There will be packets of paper and deadlines to be met for applying and paying to CASPR then designating programs that you'd like to interview with. You will pick programs before even visiting most places on your list. Pick more programs than you think you'll need - about 10-15 that you think you'd like to try to visit. YOu will not visit this many most likely. But if you try to add programs later for designation it costs more money. Later, about a month before interviews you'll bet cards in the mail telling you whether you have been accepted to interview. Then you will call CASPR and set up interview appointments. Then you fly to CRIPs - the interview location and have your interviews.

The rule is that any program that does not participate in CRIPs cannot interview before CRIPs and cannot offer spots to candidates before CRIPs. Programs that participate in CRIPs cannot ask you what you will rank them, but they can tell you where they will rank you. Some programs change their rankings, some do not, some flat out lie. Some programs will call you and ask for you to sign a contract and drop out of CRIPs/Match - also illegal.

Every year there are programs that do not play be the rules. You will start to hear about these programs throughout the years of school. Sometimes the programs get put on probation.

Thank you very much. Your answers are always very informative and readers benefit a lot. god bless you!

 

[whiskers]

For DMU the top 50% is OK but for most of the other schools you need to be in th etop 10-20%. I heard this from residency program directors.

They really want the top 10-20% from Moon Boot P U????

Then they really do deserve what they'll get!!!

 

[Stafocker]

****Edited*****

 

[Stafocker]

For DMU the top 50% is OK but for most of the other schools you need to be in th etop 10-20%. I heard this from residency program directors.

Is this because of DMU (Iowa) small class sizes?

 

[Stafocker]

In light of the fact that there are only a handful of ortho foot and ankle fellowships, would it be safe to assume that there is serious competition for these positions?

Here is a list of the "Unfilled" positions of AOFAS approved Ortho Foot & Ankle Fellowships. As you can see, there are a LOT of positions. Whether your residency prepares you for them is another question.

 

[krabmas]

Is this because of DMU (Iowa) small class sizes?

it is partly the class size and partly the programs strength.