OSTEOPATHIC EM Residencies

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Dyerseve30

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What DO EM residencies have a history of accepting students without doing a rotation there? I literally can only rotate at two places. And are SLOE's required for DO programs?

I'm not looking for top programs. And I'm only talking about DO and not MD.

I've been trying to find threads on here but I only keep finding "some require rotations while others don't".

If there are other threads that I have not found please feel free to direct me there.

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SLOEs are not required in the same way as they are at ACGME programs, but it is becoming more common. Why aren't you looking at ACGME programs?

Your best bet, to avoid misinformation or wasted tme, is to contact programs directly. I don't know what year you are, but you could also go to the ACOEP Scientific Assembly - they usually have a residency fair. There, you could ask the programs face to face.
 
Your best bet, to avoid misinformation or wasted tme, is to contact programs directly. I don't know what year you are, but you could also go to the ACOEP Scientific Assembly - they usually have a residency fair. There, you could ask the programs face to face.

Racer, is there a list of programs that attend the Scientific Assembly? I've tried to find one but have had no luck
 
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Racer, is there a list of programs that attend the Scientific Assembly? I've tried to find one but have had no luck

Usually, the ACOEP will publish a list of programs that plan on attending. When I went waaay back in the day (2013), it seemed as though the majority of programs were there. Sorry I can't provide any better detail than that.
 
What DO EM residencies have a history of accepting students without doing a rotation there? I literally can only rotate at two places. And are SLOE's required for DO programs?

I get students tell me all the time in the interview process that someone at their school told them "SLOEs aren't required" for the DO match. While this is probably technically true, I can tell you it puts the candidate at a significant disadvantage. I review and score about 80 interviewee applications a year, and I can tell you that most of the non-SLOE letters people get are very generic. Many of them are copied and pasted. I've found several letters on the same interview day, with different candidates, where the PD at one institution just changed the name of the student.

Seeing a LOR that just says someone shows up on time, works well with others, works hard, etc is meaningless. All the letters say the same thing no matter if the student is truly oustanding or terrible. Institutions are doing students a great disservice when they write these generic letters.

SLOEs, although not perfect, at least allow programs to stratify students and allow you to get an idea of how other programs truly thought the student performed. We put a ton of time and information in our SLOEs we write.

As for programs accepting students that don't rotate, I think thats very individualized to the program. We rank students very highly every year that didn't rotate here, but most of our match class yearly comes from students that rotated here. Our rotation is pretty popular, and I think it sells our program. I think its a little harder to do that in a 4 hour interview period. So even though we highly consider people who didn't rotate at our institution, I think they are more likely to rank us lower than a known quantity. Obviously, this is a generalization, everyone has different priorties.
 
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I agree with the above.

Our program has several residents in it who only interviewed and did not do a rotation, but the vast majority rotated in the ED before matching.

Most of our high rank list consists of people we know well, and have matched with us.
 
Our high rank list always has a bunch of candidates that didn't rotate with us, we don't hold it against them. Unfortunately, they almost always go elsewhere because I think students generally prefer to go to a place they rotated at, and if they are high on our list, then they are high on others lists too. So in the end, most of our residents come from people that rotated with us. Which then gives the impression that you need to rotate at a place in order to match there. Its the other way around really, at least at our place. We NEED you to rotate here in order to impress you to rank us #1 on your list, because otherwise you as a student will just rank #1 and match at a program that you did rotate at above ours.
 
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Our high rank list always has a bunch of candidates that didn't rotate with us, we don't hold it against them. Unfortunately, they almost always go elsewhere because I think students generally prefer to go to a place they rotated at, and if they are high on our list, then they are high on others lists too. So in the end, most of our residents come from people that rotated with us. Which then gives the impression that you need to rotate at a place in order to match there. Its the other way around really, at least at our place. We NEED you to rotate here in order to impress you to rank us #1 on your list, because otherwise you as a student will just rank #1 and match at a program that you did rotate at above ours.

From the PDs in other current/former AOA residencies you have spoken with, would you say they also rank applicants who haven't rotated with them highly?
 
I get students tell me all the time in the interview process that someone at their school told them "SLOEs aren't required" for the DO match. While this is probably technically true, I can tell you it puts the candidate at a significant disadvantage. I review and score about 80 interviewee applications a year, and I can tell you that most of the non-SLOE letters people get are very generic. Many of them are copied and pasted. I've found several letters on the same interview day, with different candidates, where the PD at one institution just changed the name of the student.

Seeing a LOR that just says someone shows up on time, works well with others, works hard, etc is meaningless. All the letters say the same thing no matter if the student is truly oustanding or terrible. Institutions are doing students a great disservice when they write these generic letters.

SLOEs, although not perfect, at least allow programs to stratify students and allow you to get an idea of how other programs truly thought the student performed. We put a ton of time and information in our SLOEs we write.

As for programs accepting students that don't rotate, I think thats very individualized to the program. We rank students very highly every year that didn't rotate here, but most of our match class yearly comes from students that rotated here. Our rotation is pretty popular, and I think it sells our program. I think its a little harder to do that in a 4 hour interview period. So even though we highly consider people who didn't rotate at our institution, I think they are more likely to rank us lower than a known quantity. Obviously, this is a generalization, everyone has different priorties.

Out of curiousity, why does EM persist in this SLOE process when no other specialty does anything like this? If regular LORs are good enough for every other specialty, why aren't they good enough for EM?
 
Out of curiousity, why does EM persist in this SLOE process when no other specialty does anything like this? If regular LORs are good enough for every other specialty, why aren't they good enough for EM?
The real question is why have other specialties not adopted this clearly superior methodology.
 
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Out of curiousity, why does EM persist in this SLOE process when no other specialty does anything like this? If regular LORs are good enough for every other specialty, why aren't they good enough for EM?

Because we are a progressive field, led by alot of fairly young and innovating physicians. The SLOE is a far superior way to evaluate students and share that evaluation with other residencies. How this has not caught on in other fields is beyond me.

Also remember that other core fields have standardized exams required in med schools (shelf exams) that guide a more standardized evaluation and grading process in their field. EM does not (yet) have this standardized luxury, and so the sloe serves as a way to standardize the evaluation process amongst students.
 
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The real question is why have other specialties not adopted this clearly superior methodology.

Other specialties can do a more personalized method of evaluation. Students can spend a whole week (or more) rotating with a single attending. In the ED, students often spend a month on a rotation and may work with 15 different attendings. The SLOE is a way to have someone (who may not have worked with the student, but nonetheless evaluates them the same as every other potential applicant) give a consensus statement from the program to other programs.
 
Other specialties can do a more personalized method of evaluation. Students can spend a whole week (or more) rotating with a single attending. In the ED, students often spend a month on a rotation and may work with 15 different attendings. The SLOE is a way to have someone (who may not have worked with the student, but nonetheless evaluates them the same as every other potential applicant) give a consensus statement from the program to other programs.
I only wish this were true!
The letters we get in our specialty are almost as useless as physician letters for medical school.
A standardized methodology that actually addresses personal competency is sorely lacking in other specialties.
 
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What DO EM residencies have a history of accepting students without doing a rotation there? I literally can only rotate at two places. And are SLOE's required for DO programs?

I'm not looking for top programs. And I'm only talking about DO and not MD.

I've been trying to find threads on here but I only keep finding "some require rotations while others don't".

If there are other threads that I have not found please feel free to direct me there.


To answer the OP,

The programs that I interviewed at that had interns and residents that did not do an audition included: Adena health in Chillicothe Ohio, Botsford Hospital, Henry Ford Macomb, St. John's in Westlake Ohio, st. Mary Mercy and Livonia Michigan.
 
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