Osteopathic Neurology Programs

[aubreytex]

Anyone care to chime in on the quality of these programs? I've searched this forum but couldn't find anything substantial. Scutwork.com doesn't have any reviews on any of these programs either. All I know is that all of them are located on the east coast, and that osteopathic programs in general are considered to be subpar when compared to allopathic training. Is this true regarding osteopathic neurology programs? Would completing one of these programs prevent me from completing an allopathic neurology fellowship?

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[neurodo721]

Why would you consider osteopathic to be subpar? Is it because D.O.'s learn all that MD's do except for a couple of hundred MORE hours in hands on manipulative medicine? The neurology programs for DO's are fewer than MD's but they are just as good and can prepare you for any fellowship you wish to take on.

 

[aubreytex]

Thank you for responding. Sorry if it sounded like I was bashing osteopathic residencies. It was certainly not my intent. I'm pretty sure that there are osteopathic programs out there that are great, but allopathic program directors don't know anything about them, which can put one at a disadvantage. Are you in a osteopathic neuro program right now? If you are, will you be pursuing a fellowship down the road?

 

[mcfreak]

Thank you for responding. Sorry if it sounded like I was bashing osteopathic residencies. It was certainly not my intent. I'm pretty sure that there are osteopathic programs out there that are great, but allopathic program directors don't know anything about them, which can put one at a disadvantage. Are you in a osteopathic neuro program right now? If you are, will you be pursuing a fellowship down the road?

It's not an unreasonable question. DO primary care residencies are wonderful, but some of the DO specialties programs are not as good. From what I have heard, they lack good didactics and because a lot are at smaller hospitals, the variety of cases may not be as good. But it is a valid question, and I would like to hear from people who know these residencies.

 

[bigdreamer#1]

It's not an unreasonable question. DO primary care residencies are wonderful, but some of the DO specialties programs are not as good. From what I have heard, they lack good didactics and because a lot are at smaller hospitals, the variety of cases may not be as good. But it is a valid question, and I would like to hear from people who know these residencies.

Those are my concerns as well. I don't know how valid they are either, but I do wonder how much variety of cases you see, how strong the didactics, and also, I'd like to learn and do some research, do they strongly guide residents in that regard as well.

 

[tranzformer]

I am also an osteopathic student planning on neurology, and there are only 1-2 programs out of the 7 that I would even consider when I am going to apply. The way it stands I probably won't even enter into the DO match due to the weakness of training imho. My neurology professor, who is a DO, said that if I wanted a solid training that I should go the allopathic route since the DO training was questionable.

A few things that bother me about the DO programs is that most of them are at community hospitals. Most of the hospitals are smallish in size (300-400 beds) with a few exceptions. Also, DO programs have very little to no research going on. Since I am interested in academic medicine, this is something that I feel is very important. The other thing is the number of faculty. Many of the DO programs have small faculty (5-~10 faculty) and the question to ask is how many of these are paid faculty vs. community based volunteer faculty. I think that is worth knowing. I'm not sure how big this plays into things, but a lot of the DO spots go unfilled meaning that a lot more work will be required per resident to cover the work load as well as call . I also have problems with many DO programs not having the facilities to support training during the residency and having to ship students to outside institutions (many times they are out of state). Most MD schools that use other training facilities use an affiliated VA system, county hospital...etc. that are always in the same city. I don't know of any MD program that will send you out of town/state for a required rotation.

Since you are interested in neurology, one of the more DO friendly residencies out there, I'm not sure the benefit of going the DO route over an ACGME program? If you are dead set on a DO residency, I would recommend looking at the MSU- Sparrow Health which looks like a very strong program. Also I think the St. John program in Detroit looks decent. Don't take my word for it. Do your own research and compare programs and see what you want out of your training. Ultimately you only do residency once (or at least I hope so) so you might as well make the best of it and get the best training you can.

 

[bigdreamer#1]

Yeah, your are correct about MSU (sparrow) and I did apply to the program too. That one is duel accredited.

 

[tranzformer]

Yeah, your are correct about MSU (sparrow) and I did apply to the program too. That one is duel accredited.

Yeah I think that is a great choice. Largest faculty, largest hospital, most admits, largest class size, fellowship programs (only DO program?), lab based research possibilities at the MSU campus + extensive clinical studies..etc. I think it is clear when looking at the objective data which program stands out.

 

[KeepJumping]

I am also an osteopathic student planning on neurology, and there are only 1-2 programs out of the 7 that I would even consider when I am going to apply.

What are the 7 programs?

 

[FutureDO2016]

Can someone please tell me about the osteopathic neuro programs especially the ones in Michigan and Illinois-Normal!

 

[bustbones26]

Okay, being an osteopathic neurologist, here is my take on this. I had a military scholarship, so I was forced to do residency with the military. Thus, my residency was an ACGME residency and the AOA pretty much gave me a "free pass" because of the military obligation.

My school started up their own neurology residency while I was an MSII, and one of our better clinical instructors was a neurologist, thus, neuro was pretty popular in my graduating class.

Here is the skinny from my colleagues. Applying to the osteopathic programs is more competitive than you think. Yeah, these are not the Mayo clinic or anything, but the problem is, supply versus demand.

Most of the programs are solid. No you would never be able to say that you trained at Barrow or Columbia, but the training is solid. My colleagues all feel that they received good training and were ready to go out on their own after residency graduation. MANY of my collegues were accepted to world class fellowship programs after their DO residencies!!!

Remember the beauty of some osteopathic residencies. They fill in their gaps by farming you out to affiliated and sister allopathic institutions. This hybrid residency leads to fairly good traning.

 

[FutureDO2016]

Is there an AOA program in neurology in Normal, IL because their website says Neuro surgery but the AOA site says there is?

 

[FutureDO2016]

Anyone? Bump...

 

[NeuroLAX]

Looks like it is neurosurgery.

 

[FutureDO2016]

So here are the current Osteopathic Neurology programs...can anyone review or share thoughts about them if you rotated, interviewed or currently train there...

36422
NSUCOM/Larkin Community Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
South Miami
FL

349359
KCOM/Advocate BroMenn Med Ctr - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Bloomington
IL

131404
Botsford General Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Farmington Hills
MI

128407
Garden City Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Garden City
MI

139195
EW Sparrow Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Lansing
MI

182010
St John Providence Health System-Osteo Div - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Warren
MI

183215
TUCOM/Valley Hospital Medical Center - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Las Vegas
NV

126152
OUCOM/Grandview Hosp & Med Ctr - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Dayton
OH

166589
LECOM/UPMCME Hamot - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Erie
PA

 

[bustbones26]

So here are the current Osteopathic Neurology programs...can anyone review or share thoughts about them if you rotated, interviewed or currently train there...

36422
NSUCOM/Larkin Community Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
South Miami
FL

349359
KCOM/Advocate BroMenn Med Ctr - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Bloomington
IL

131404
Botsford General Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Farmington Hills
MI

128407
Garden City Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Garden City
MI

139195
EW Sparrow Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Lansing
MI

182010
St John Providence Health System-Osteo Div - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Warren
MI

183215
TUCOM/Valley Hospital Medical Center - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Las Vegas
NV

126152
OUCOM/Grandview Hosp & Med Ctr - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Dayton
OH

166589
LECOM/UPMCME Hamot - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Erie
PA

Per usual, many osteopathic programs are in the suburbs of Detroit.

I have heard great things about Sparrow, a classmate of mine really wanted to go there but ended up at Garden City. That being stated, whenever I ran into them years later at an AAN meeting, they were pleased with their experience there.

I was a former LECOM student, we all thought Dr. Jeff Esper was a great lecturer and made the clinical part of learning neurology interesting; hence, he was responsible for a high interest of neurology from our school. That being stated, I had heard not too long ago that the program was somewhat malignant? Perhaps there are some malignant faculty, I really do not know? Another one of my classmates went through the program and enjoyed it. Two of my wife's former classmates also graduated from this program and despite going to a "Crappy" little osteopathic residency, they landed nice fellowship spots.

What I would recommend looking for in a program:

1) Intership year!!! Some osteopathic hospitals are set on having an army of Osteopathic Interns and this means you being virtually the only doctor in a small hospital at night cross covering every single patient!! I'd steer clear from any of those programs. For example, back in my day, HAMOT used to have you do your internship year at Millcreek in Erie and if you were the intern at Millcreek, it was you and an attending in the ER, who usually was sitting in a room on recliner smoking a cigarette.

2) If a program does not have resources, then how will they fill in the gaps? For example, if you go to one of those Detroit based programs and have to do a month of Neurocritical care at Henry Ford, that would be quite an experience. Are you allowed to do any electives at sister institutions if your programs does not have something that might interest you?

3) Don't exclude those ACGME programs just yet. You listed nine programs above. I can count off at least six graduates from my class that wanted neuro. Now there are new schools popping up everywhere and I bet that there are nearly double the number of grads today than there was in my day. It is possible that you might not match into an osteopathic program.

 

[FutureDO2016]

Yeah obviously I would apply to ACGME and AOA residencies, but I heard matching into neuro isn't that hard unless you want a ultra competitive program. For example, in this article it said:

Yet in the osteopathic medical profession, neurology remains less popular than a number of other specialties. While a few are competitive, not all of the nine AOA-approved neurology residencies fill. - See more at: http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/?p=141431#sthash.1Xuja69e.dpuf

 

[FutureDO2016]

does anyone have info on the following Neuro programs or feedback if you rotated or are doing residency here?

336422
NSUCOM/Larkin Community Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
South Miami
FL
349359
KCOM/Advocate BroMenn Med Ctr - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Bloomington
IL
131404
Botsford General Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Farmington Hills
MI
128407
Garden City Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Garden City
MI
139195
EW Sparrow Hospital - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Lansing
MI
182010
St John Providence Health System-Osteo Div - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Warren
MI
183215
TUCOM/Valley Hospital Medical Center - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Las Vegas
NV
126152
OUCOM/Grandview Hosp & Med Ctr - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Dayton
OH
166589
LECOM/UPMC Hamot - Neurology Residency
Neurology
Erie
PA

 

[FutureDO2016]

bump

 

[as90]

I'd like to know about the Neurology program at Touro if anyone is there or has interviewed there?

 

[as90]

bump