Osteopathic Urology Programs

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This forum is for DO students interested in urology to share about the + and - of the different programs that you rotate at. Note that there are currently programs in Philly, Chicago, Charleston WV, NJ, Michigan x4, and Olympia Fields IL. There is very little online info out there for DO students pursuing Urology so this forum could be helpful for everyone.
 
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Hey there,
Well I do know that one of the Chicago DO Urology programs is NOT accepting new applicants this year. The other one is, however, they accept only one student. You should go take a visit, and the Chief was very helpful and friendly when I spoke to him on the phone.

The Pontiac MI program is stellar. It is basically Wayne State's old Urology Program. The directors at Wayne had some difference of opinions and they went to one of the community hospitals leaving DMC. Pontiac was then contacted and they went in with Dr Santucci and others and now run this. You work at DMC (Detroit Medical Center) which encompasses 6 different hospitals, you also rotate at Gardens, Pontiac, Huron Vally and Sinia Hospitals. All of which are actually pretty nice. You are split up one resident per hospital so all the cases at that hospital are yours. No chief comes in or higher rank and takes a good case from you. If it is at your hospital the month you are there, its yours. You have a lot of autonomy as far as surgical cases- which is great. If they see you are good and you take initiative, you can gain a lot of experience in surgery. You switch around to a lot of diff hospitals, so you get a lot of exposure to different environments/communities, case loads, and pathology. They have weekly grand rounds, journal club once a month and M&M once a month. You get experience with the Robot, Lap, Endo, and they just went in and found someone at Detroit Childrens so you'll get a good Peds experience as well. You also train with Dr Santucci who is well known in the field of ureter reconstruction and trauma. I really really enjoyed my rotation there and felt it was a GREAT program. The residents are really nice and friendly as well. The only CONS I have is 1. The weather in MI.....and 2. the amount you have to drive between different hospitals. This is a pro and con---you get the experience of all these busy large hospitals but most of them are like 45 min apart. But then again....you get to train at large city hospitals with tons of volume and lots of crazy pathology. Hope this helps for some of you applying. I know I wished there was more info out there. Please post if you have been to a program. thanks....
 
Thanks for the info. Lets keep this forum going! Which program in Chicago won't have any spots next year?
 
As a side note, I spoke with the outgoing chief at Olympia Fields and he had all good things to say about the program there.

I've heard from the MD world that PCOM's program has the best reputation of the DO programs. I worked with one grad of that program and he was very well trained and respected amongst his MD colleagues.
 
UrologyBound said:
As a side note, I spoke with the outgoing chief at Olympia Fields and he had all good things to say about the program there.

I've heard from the MD world that PCOM's program has the best reputation of the DO programs. I worked with one grad of that program and he was very well trained and respected amongst his MD colleagues.
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Thats the Chicago program that I talked with as well. Its the other one that does not take new residents for next yr. :) I think its St. James something??? In any case Olympia Fields is the only open Chicago program that I spoke to. Who has been to PCOM's program?
 
There are 2 Urology programs in the Chicago area. Both are affiliated with Midwestern but have seperate applications.

1. Cook County/John Stroger Hospital
This is the hospital that the show ER was supposedly based on. I believe it's a new hospital. I haven't heard much about it yet.

2. Olympia Fields/St James Hospital
This is a community hospital outside of the city. I've heard one downside is that you have to drive all over the place during your residency here. Otherwise I've heard all good things. There is a rumor that they're not accepting new applicants this year. Is this true? I emailed the Program Director but haven't heard back yet.
 
DO programs to the best of my knowledge:
PCOM
?UMDNJ
West Virginia
Detroit (two programs i believe)
East Lansing, MI
Grand Rapids, MI
Chicago (two programs)
 
PCOM - used to interview very early, take a few people yearly i believe
UMDNJ - i heard there is a program there, not sure though
Cook County - inner city, crazy cases, lacked technology when i was there, nice staff
olympia fields - don't know much, main hospital is a trauma center i have heard
WVU - newer program, just graduated first chief in past few years
detroit - now two programs, one a consortium i believe, residents cover a few hospitals, spend time at detroit receiving as well, nice residents
east lansing - expanding program, private and university staff, PD is peds uro
grand rapids - private attendings, high volume, outgoing chief landed cleveland clinic fellowship
 
I just got emails from the 2 Chicago programs. Both Olympia Fields and Cook County have just 1 spot for the incoming year. Bummer.
 
One criticism that I have heard about the DO Urology residencies is that there are fewer fellowship trained attendings on staff at these programs.

What this means is that during your residency you won't have the opportunity to learn bread and butter procedures from people with advanced training. It also means that you would have a tougher time landing a fellowship after your residency if so desired.

I'm in the military so I've heard some feedback from the Military Urologists saying that they are a bit wary of sending their residents to the DO programs because they aren't certain about the quality of training the residents will receive. The DO Urology websites don't tell the military folks much information about accredidation, hospital affiliations, or board pass rates. Having said that, there are a few military residents in DO Urology programs so they must be making some exceptions.
 
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I'm wondering if I can get a consensus of what a good Level II score would be?
 
Rotated at PCOM's program...haven't rotated at the other DO Uro programs so don't have anything to compare it to. But it definitely is a busy service, interesting cases, robotic training, good opportunity to interact with attendings during office hours, lots of teaching. Residents are cool to work with and teach a good amount. Their interviews are late this year (Dec) for some reason.

Anyone get any interviews yet?
Does anyone know WHEN the DO programs match (dunno how I'm STILL confused about this- its not during the AUA or Osteopathic match...are they all private??)
 
Cook County in Chicago is interviewing on Friday, October 16th. Emailed this morning.

Have heard that other programs will give you a call if they haven't seen you rotate through their program and invite you out for a week or two to work with the staff (even as late as Dec/Jan).

Good question about the 'when' of the DO urosurg match. All I know is that it happens sometime after Jan 26th (allo-uro match).

Keep the faith my uro-bound friends!

-DK
 
Can any of you guys comment on any of the Osteopathic urology programs that you did sub-I's at or have really any information on. I'm interested urology but having a difficult time finding any useful info on the DO residencies.

Please help!
 
I matched AOA Urology this year. My advice would be to rotate through as many of these programs as you can. My understanding is that DMC, WVSOM, and Olympia fields only interview people that have rotated there. I also heard rumors that PCOM only interviewed people that rotated with them. Urology is competitive but it is a great specialty. Work hard, hopefully you have good step I scores, do well on step II and do as many aways as your school will allow. That would be my advice. As far as having only 19 spots this year that is actually pretty good because the previous years have had fewer spots. This year there is a new program in Michigan and DMC took 3 instead of 2.
 
Can anyone that matched into a urology program comment on what their stats were? I wonder if these programs look at high usmle scores as a plus
 
Like the poster above, I am newly interested in Urology as a residency option and as a DO student, I know that I have much better chance with the AOA match. I still don't know what type of stats and experiences the DO Urology programs require. Can anyone help me with this?
 
Also very interested... How does a COMLEX1 547 stack up?
 
Hopefully this answers some questions about Urology for osteopathic students. Urologymatch.com is an excellent source for info on Urology. I'll probably post this there also. Please understand that some of this is my own opinion, some is what I've heard on the interview trail, and some is from a conversing with a current resident in uro. Hopefully some others from this year's cycle will post their experience/advice.
1. Chicago – Extremely busy program, mostly open procedures but now doing rotations at Christ hospital with fellowship trained robotic surgeons, cysto room running all day with junior residents, autonomy, pathology like NO other program, seriously crazy number of cases, trauma, program expanding, full time peds and urogyn on staff, well known hospital, all that goes with county hospital, funding for 6 residents. Program Director has great vision for residents and program. Chief resident will do fellowship at NYU in Onc.
2. DMC – Have Dr. Santucci. Don't know much more, didn't spend any time there. Grand rounds combined with other Detroit programs. Heard program director is a foodie and will take you out to eat, super nice guy. Take 2-3 residents/year.
3. MSU – Lansing – Two services, one is private practice which is extremely busy, one is academic including program director who is peds. 80% of time at Sparrow, 20% at Ingham. Expanding OR at Sparrow and da Vinci Si coming to BOTH hospitals, recent grad became robotics chairman at hospital in Seattle fresh out of residency, unified residents, plentiful research opportunities, funding for 6 residents, roll model attendings. Tons of robotics - chief resident this year was doing skin to skin robotic prostates last year.
4. Einstein – Largest program, application in for dual accreditation, most attendings trained at Penn or Einstein. Only program with 2 years in general surgery. Residents are extremely intelligent, onc at Sloan Kettering, Peds at CHOP, 4 residents/year. Considered most "allopathic" DO program, have Dr. Metro, fellowship trained robotic surgeons, grads do well.
5. Charleston, WV – program growing and adding fellowship trained attendings, Cleveland Clinic transplant attending, hospitals 7 minutes apart, busy program, chill intern year, Peds in Columbus, residents are very close, PD is down to earth, 2 residents/year.
6. UNDMJ – Don't know much, program director is younger, sharp, heard very busy program, connections to MD Anderson (PD did fellowship there), heard lots of positives. 6 spots.
7. Mount Clemens – base hospitals, TONS of attendings, grand rounds with DMC, can't remember if they are getting 1 or 2 da Vinci Si robots, only 1-2 residents/hospital so you stay busy, 2 residents/year, have done very well in Urology Jeopardy and other competitions.
8. St. John's – newer program, old program director from Mount Clemens program… has been doing it for 20+ years, program takes 2 residents/year, this upcoming year most senior residents will be in 3rd year, fellowship trained robotic surgeon w/ da Vinci Si.
9. Grand Rapids – Very new hospital (4 yrs old), adding staff, possibly expanding to cover downtown hospital in Grand Rapids since no other urology program is there, PD has ties to Cleveland Clinic and previous resident there for fellowship, Peds rotation for 2 months at CHOP, 1 resident/year
10. Olympia Fields – Didn't spend any time there.
From an email Q/A with a current resident, my comments are in parenthesis:

1. Boards: Depends if you're applying DO or MD. Honestly, unless you're at the top of the class, have publications, and scored > 245 give or take on USMLE, I wouldn't waste time applying MD. As for comlex, if you're < 500, definitely take step 2 early, aim for minimum > 550, preferably closer or above 600. If on step 1 you got 550 +/- 10, your score is equivocal and if you're confident you can go up on step 2, take it early. But you'll land interviews with this score probably. If you got 590+ on step 1, I'd wait to take step 2 until after ERAS is sent out. That's the beauty of being DO, it's really about more than just boards. (A program director told me this year he won't consider people less than ~550.)

2. The best DO programs are Einstein, Cook County Chicago, MSU Lansing, and Detroit Medical Center in my opinion. As for programs that are DO friendly, NEOUCOM, Rochester, LIJ I know of people matching. Take a look at other posts to see what others have said.

3. Regarding two week audition rotations: Two weeks is generally enough for them to assess if you'll fit in and show them your knowledge base. If you're in the area of the programs, go to their journal clubs or weekly meetings if you can. You can get this info from a resident.

4. Books: Penn clinical manual is great b/c it reads like a text book and is thorough. It's a bit difficult to use from the quick 5 minutes in between cases aspect but for preparing for a rotation is great. Secrets is out of date, don't use it. Pocket guide to urology by Jeff Weider is the bible of urology that all residents use, however, it's pretty advanced. I used it on my second sub-I after I had a good foundation. I mainly used a small book called Urology for the house officer which was great as I was learning. First half of the book is on key presentations like what to do when you're called for acute urinary retention, hematuria, etc. Second half is selected topics like all the cancers, stones, bph, etc etc. It's more introductory, but concise and if you know everything in it to the best of your ability, you'll be great.

5. Research: Becoming very important for DO programs and has always been important for MD programs. Try to get a case report at least, or an actual project of course is better. Though a uro related project is ideal, any publication helps as they mainly want you to be able to publish during residency. Uro is a small community, knowing people helps with everything. Your audition rotation is by far the most important; it'll be rough because you constantly have to be "on." It's only one month though.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
 
Maybe this is a good place to ask this.

I want to apply to either olympia fields or cook county chicago for a rotation and for the life of me I cannot figure out how to do this. It was really easy to figure out DMC and the Kennedy system (UMDNJ). PCOM was even pretty straight forward, though the contact woman isn't getting back to me. but I cant find anything on either MWU/CCOM's website nor a google search on how to apply to these programs in IL.

Anyone care to enlighten me on how to get this done?
 
DocEspana said:
Maybe this is a good place to ask this.

I want to apply to either olympia fields or cook county chicago for a rotation and for the life of me I cannot figure out how to do this. It was really easy to figure out DMC and the Kennedy system (UMDNJ). PCOM was even pretty straight forward, though the contact woman isn't getting back to me. but I cant find anything on either MWU/CCOM's website nor a google search on how to apply to these programs in IL.

Anyone care to enlighten me on how to get this done?
Click to expand...


When I was a medical student, I contacted Barbara Jackson (630) 515-7480
([email protected]). She was the clinical coordinator for surgical rotations, specifically for CCOM/St James - Olympia Fields rotations.
 
I was just told UMDNJ-SOM is not planning on taking urology residents this upcoming academic year. Does anybody know why? They told me they just found out before ERAS opened up but did not give me a reason. I'm not sure if the program is closing or they just took too many applicants last year.
 
ChasingLancelot said:
I was just told UMDNJ-SOM is not planning on taking urology residents this upcoming academic year. Does anybody know why? They told me they just found out before ERAS opened up but did not give me a reason. I'm not sure if the program is closing or they just took too many applicants last year.
Click to expand...

You heard this from UMDNJ directly? How many applicants did they take last year. Obviously with the limited number of spots for Uro, this would be pretty unfortunate.
 
jfellings said:
You heard this from UMDNJ directly? How many applicants did they take last year. Obviously with the limited number of spots for Uro, this would be pretty unfortunate.
Click to expand...

Yes, they e-mailed me after asking them why they were unavailable on ERAS. It is pretty unfortunate. They also said that they did not plan on reversing their decision. I don't know if this has anything to do with the Rowan buyout, but I don't know why that would affect the residencies.
 
is this just for DO or for MD too?
 
UMDNJ SOM may secure funding for 1-2 spots for next year.

The program is growing and is strong. The Rowan change will have no effect on the program.

Qualified applicants should apply by emailing application to Maritza Rodriguez <[email protected]>
 
MDANDERSON'SBOY said:
UMDNJ SOM may secure funding for 1-2 spots for next year.

The program is growing and is strong. The Rowan change will have no effect on the program.

Qualified applicants should apply by emailing application to Maritza Rodriguez <[email protected]>
Click to expand...

To clarify, are you referring this current cycle for residency beginning 7/1/2013? Thank you
 
Looking at the uromatch spreadsheet, it seems like there are only 16 spots this year ... is that true? Where did the other 3 from 2011 go?
 
D0CYAN said:
Looking at the uromatch spreadsheet, it seems like there are only 16 spots this year ... is that true? Where did the other 3 from 2011 go?
Click to expand...

Well last year UMDNJSOM matched 4, rather than 2. So those 2 are gone this year (and depending on how you do math, a 6 spot swing). There is actually more to it than just taking 4 people last year, but that sufficient to explain why there is zero from there this year.

Also IIRC Cook County is taking zero this year. But that may be rumor rather than fact, idk.
 
DocEspana said:
Well last year UMDNJSOM matched 4, rather than 2. So those 2 are gone this year (and depending on how you do math, a 6 spot swing). There is actually more to it than just taking 4 people last year, but that sufficient to explain why there is zero from there this year.

Also IIRC Cook County is taking zero this year. But that may be rumor rather than fact, idk.
Click to expand...
I see ... The Opportunities website makes it seem like some programs are very consistent with the number of residents they take in a given year, and some vary quite a bit. Is there any way of gauging ahead of time how many spots are going to be offered in a given year by the programs that vary? Or do you just have to wait and see what they say each year?
 
D0CYAN said:
I see ... The Opportunities website makes it seem like some programs are very consistent with the number of residents they take in a given year, and some vary quite a bit. Is there any way of gauging ahead of time how many spots are going to be offered in a given year by the programs that vary? Or do you just have to wait and see what they say each year?
Click to expand...

Wait and see. The UMDNJSOM one is a bit complicated as they figured they were all set forever and ever amen and decided to take extra students. Then they lost a major hospital and suddenly were not only "behind" on the number of students they could take, but unexpectedly had to decrease their total resident number anyway due to the loss of a hospital. That can't be predicted.

Cooke County is also one of the unexpected things. I think it was supposed to take 1, and still might, but the word on the street is that its entire GME office (so not urology specifically) is under review and as such they dont want to put someone into a uro spot if there may be an accreditation loss, despite the uro program probably being the second strongest thing at that hospital (behind emergency med)
 
D0CYAN said:
Looking at the uromatch spreadsheet, it seems like there are only 16 spots this year ... is that true? Where did the other 3 from 2011 go?
Click to expand...

Is there a link you could share for this spreadsheet?
 
has anyone heard back from any of the programs?
 
urome1234 said:
has anyone heard back from any of the programs?
Click to expand...

I know that St. John's notified their top 2 on their rank list (as well as the few they will rank after #1/2)
Also, PCOM has a history of notifying their top 4 around Christmas...and I am sure it was the same this year (only place I didn't interview...but have friends who did interview that can confirm this)
Lansing--sent out a letter that gives you a broad idea of where you stand on their rank list.
DMC, Mt. Clemens--Silent, PD's are very to the letter on the rules, so everyone will find out on Monday who is going there.
WV --they have a "top 5" they rank (and the hospital GME makes them rank 7 total), so they narrow their rank list down considerably. Typically notify you if you make the top 5.
Olympia Fields--the person they are taking knows they are going there. Dr. Grimaldi let's his intentions well known.
Cook County--as far as I know, they do NOT contact anyone...I guess I hadn't heard what DocEspana heard about them not taking anyone this year? I interviewed there and the last I was told by Dr. Vidal was that they were approved to take 2 residents this year...but things can and often do change quick without notice.
Grand Rapids--no idea...wouldn't be surprised if the one going there already knows...but I can't confirm this one.

DocEspana said:
So stressed out over this. 5 more days.
Click to expand...

3.5 days left! Monday at noon can't come soon enough! Any good vibes about where you will end up?! :luck:
 
Thanks for the reply. I assumed PCOM would call, I obv didnt hear back and the few kids I do talk to still have not as well. Oh well. I guess we will find out in < 24 hrs. Best of luck everyone.
 
urome1234 said:
Thanks for the reply. I assumed PCOM would call, I obv didnt hear back and the few kids I do talk to still have not as well. Oh well. I guess we will find out in < 24 hrs. Best of luck everyone.
Click to expand...

Glad someone finally posted something!
Sorry to hear that you didn't hear back from PCOM...but, never say never. They had someone "commit" in recent years to be in their top 4, then changed their minds...so, :xf: :luck:
I'm sure we probably met on the interview trail...You'll have to PM me & let me know!
Here's some good vibes for tomorrow!:woot:
 
Best of luck to you as well. Yeah I am hoping PCOM did not call this year. I know unlikely. Like you said you know a few people who got a call. Best of luck tomorrow. I am pretty sure we met, just based off your SDN screename. Cheers!
 
Any DO's get ACGME love? I heard the match was brutal this year.
 
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