Out of curiosity how do PD's view foreign doctors applying to match?

[IMG69]

Since step 1 is pass fail or will be soon (Idk exactly when) I could potentially look at applying to the US later on. How do PD's view foreign doctors? E.g I could apply to the US as what is the equivalent of a PGY-X Resident or what if I completed my specialty training and then applied to the US?

To be extremely specific, i'm going to be doing NSGY in Germany and how would this look if I applied to the US say midway through training or once I was an attending Neurosurgeon? Would they overlook the need for 900 publications etc?

This is currently just theoretical, I do potentially have reasons to go to the US but still it's highly unlikely that I would bother but you never know.

I know there's a few PD's here and I was just curious on how you view this kind of applicant?

I do have a US passport by the way.

Thanks.

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[Dr. Doctor MD]

Since step 1 is pass fail or will be soon (Idk exactly when) I could potentially look at applying to the US later on. How do PD's view foreign doctors? E.g I could apply to the US as what is the equivalent of a PGY-X Resident or what if I completed my specialty training and then applied to the US?

To be extremely specific, i'm going to be doing NSGY in Germany and how would this look if I applied to the US say midway through training or once I was an attending Neurosurgeon? Would they overlook the need for 900 publications etc?

This is currently just theoretical, I do potentially have reasons to go to the US but still it's highly unlikely that I would bother but you never know.

I know there's a few PD's here and I was just curious on how you view this kind of applicant?

I do have a US passport by the way.

Thanks.

PDs generally view IMGs and FMGs unfavorably compared to their USMD counterparts. You will need much better scores and activities than a USMD and generally will still match poorly in comparison. Most IMGs and FMGs are concentrated in noncompetitive specialties and rural/undesirable locations. Maybe some programs would appreciate the skill of a fully trained neurosurgeon from another country starting as a PGY-1, but that's a big maybe. So to answer your questions: no, they wouldn't view you favorably. They would hold you to a higher (not lower) standard compared to all the graduating 4th years you'd be applying against. Unlikely to match neurosurgery in the US as an IMG/FMG.

 

[IMG69]

Interesting, thanks for your response.

 

[NickNaylor]

You would do well to get specific guidance/advice on this as there are many challenges with being an IMG/FMG and coming to the US for residency training. You will very likely after to repeat any residency-level training that you completed when you come to the US. If you plan to practice in the US long-term - which you really should, because US training is often not accepted in other countries, thus you would have to repeat the training in whatever country you decide to go to - foreign training can make obtaining a license and privileges more complicated, depending on your specific circumstances. There are many other issues that you would need to consider.

As noted, though, IMGs/FMGs are generally viewed negatively when it comes to US training programs. There are a lot of things "behind the scenes" that can make hiring IMGs/FMGs as residents more complicated, and absent a compelling reason to take an IMG/FMG it's simply easier for the hospital system to hire a US medical graduate. If you are serious about trying to come to the US for residency training as an IMG/FMG, you should get specific mentoring early because it may be quite challenging, especially in neurosurgery which is a relatively competitive specialty to match in.

 

[IMG69]

You would do well to get specific guidance/advice on this as there are many challenges with being an IMG/FMG and coming to the US for residency training. You will very likely after to repeat any residency-level training that you completed when you come to the US. If you plan to practice in the US long-term - which you really should, because US training is often not accepted in other countries, thus you would have to repeat the training in whatever country you decide to go to - foreign training can make obtaining a license and privileges more complicated, depending on your specific circumstances. There are many other issues that you would need to consider.

As noted, though, IMGs/FMGs are generally viewed negatively when it comes to US training programs. There are a lot of things "behind the scenes" that can make hiring IMGs/FMGs as residents more complicated, and absent a compelling reason to take an IMG/FMG it's simply easier for the hospital system to hire a US medical graduate. If you are serious about trying to come to the US for residency training as an IMG/FMG, you should get specific mentoring early because it may be quite challenging, especially in neurosurgery which is a relatively competitive specialty to match in.

The actual practicality of this i'm not too worried about, i'm well aware of all the hoops etc i'd need to go through as well as the consequences. I'm just genuinely curious about how much being an experienced resident of specialty X would boost my application, I mean it should make the interviews very easy/straightforward. When you mean mentoring you basically mean cold email a ton of Dr's in the USA? I do have potential with my GF's program etc, I'd also imagine my current consultants have American contacts seeing as a lot of them have done visits etc there (I mean how else does any IMG match something competitive).

I know a lot of the year group above me are applying to the US while being PGY1, so I was also curious about whether they'd be looked upon more favourably but apparently not which is rather interesting.

I'm going to assume that American LOR's would still reign supreme? Even if I got actual LOR's from me working/functioning as a resident?

P.s We do publish a ton of papers, one of my consultants does indeed have 50+ pubs the majority he did while he was a resident and we are actually encouraged to do a so technically I would actually have that aspect covered (currently have 4 neuro-related) and only scoring well in step 2 would matter but i've already been using that material for the last 2 years anyway for my exams.

 

[gyngyn]

Previous surgical training might seem to be a plus, but re-training someone who has already developed ingrained (undesired) behaviors is not.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Since step 1 is pass fail or will be soon (Idk exactly when) I could potentially look at applying to the US later on. How do PD's view foreign doctors? E.g I could apply to the US as what is the equivalent of a PGY-X Resident or what if I completed my specialty training and then applied to the US?

To be extremely specific, i'm going to be doing NSGY in Germany and how would this look if I applied to the US say midway through training or once I was an attending Neurosurgeon? Would they overlook the need for 900 publications etc?

This is currently just theoretical, I do potentially have reasons to go to the US but still it's highly unlikely that I would bother but you never know.

I know there's a few PD's here and I was just curious on how you view this kind of applicant?

I do have a US passport by the way.

Thanks.

It’s an uphill battle. You’d have to be the exception to the rule. I wouldn’t bank on it, but hey someone has to be the exception(just don’t be heart broken if it doesn’t work).

neurosurgery is a very self-selected field. I’m no expert but I imagine there’s some retention and thus open spots here and there. Your best chance is going to be getting lucky by hearing about an opening and being ready to start. Yes, luck is a bad plan but that’s gonna be a big part of it.

An alternative way of becoming a US neurosurgeon is if you become specialized in a certain skill set that is not very common and being brought to the US and given privileges to work as an attending without redoing training. I don’t know what that would be for neurosurgery, and this will likely be different ten years from now as something novel today might be standard of care and widely available in ten years.

 

[ACSurgeon]

The actual practicality of this i'm not too worried about, i'm well aware of all the hoops etc i'd need to go through as well as the consequences. I'm just genuinely curious about how much being an experienced resident of specialty X would boost my application, I mean it should make the interviews very easy/straightforward. When you mean mentoring you basically mean cold email a ton of Dr's in the USA? I do have potential with my GF's program etc, I'd also imagine my current consultants have American contacts seeing as a lot of them have done visits etc there (I mean how else does any IMG match something competitive).

I know a lot of the year group above me are applying to the US while being PGY1, so I was also curious about whether they'd be looked upon more favourably but apparently not which is rather interesting.

I'm going to assume that American LOR's would still reign supreme? Even if I got actual LOR's from me working/functioning as a resident?

P.s We do publish a ton of papers, one of my consultants does indeed have 50+ pubs the majority he did while he was a resident and we are actually encouraged to do a so technically I would actually have that aspect covered (currently have 4 neuro-related) and only scoring well in step 2 would matter but i've already been using that material for the last 2 years anyway for my exams.

There might be a boost given your experience. There might also be trepidation out of fear that your new program will have to “unteach” you bad habits. Surgeons have a very specific way of doing things. Within a residency program you’ll hear one surgeon say you should never do this while another surgeon says you should always do it. So, there very well could be concern that you’re gonna come with your own way of doing things and be difficult to train as a result.

 

[IMG69]

You all make great points. What about other specialties? Like rads or gas?