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How many of you guys know of a pharmacist who insists on being called Dr. XYZ? In my opinion, that just screams tool.
Out of curiosity...
- Thread starter orthomyxo
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It screams tool until you get disrespected. I was counseling a lady and refused to take my advice. She said that "my sister is a nurse and she will tell me what to do." I spent a good 25 minutes trying to help this ungrateful woman out and just flat out got disrespected. I asked, would you rather listen to someone with a doctorate level education or an LPN? She went on about her way. It wasted my time and pissed me off. In certain situations the title is appropriate to use. Pharmacists are the most accessible healthcare professionals and should seem easily approachable. I don't know of any pharmacists outside of academia that insist on people calling them doctor all of the time. But if they did they would certainly be douchebags. Those with undergraduate pharmacy degrees paved the way for us and I think it disrespects them to throw around the "doctor" title all of the time. After all, pharmacists are pharmacists, whether you have a BS or a PharmD.
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That's because it does.
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At first I thought we are doctors and we should be called doctor. But my friend made a good point saying that "we dont call a lawyer Dr." And they have a JD (juris doctor). Now I am in my last rotation, its in a hospital. Calling a pharmacist a doctor just confuses people. My first day I came in the pharmacy and asked the volunteer if Dr. XY (a pharmacist) was there and he said "there are no doctors here just pharmacist." And when I found who I was looking for, I found out that they new each other and just putting the word "Dr." made him not think of the pharmacist. And I am going to be in the air force in January and I like captain better anyways.
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The "confusion" aspect to me doesn't hold water...
If someone insists on being called Doctor XY, that's fine with me. I won't do it, but I don't mind if someone does.
And Mikey, don't be hypocritical, you know the first thing you did was start putting "Dr" on all those correspondences you'd get so you'd start seeing "Dr. Mikey" on stuff.
If someone insists on being called Doctor XY, that's fine with me. I won't do it, but I don't mind if someone does.
And Mikey, don't be hypocritical, you know the first thing you did was start putting "Dr" on all those correspondences you'd get so you'd start seeing "Dr. Mikey" on stuff.
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I think that it is important that pharmacists are called Dr., in any setting, I think it adds value to the degree and to the profession, we are counseling patients on medications and health issues so it is important that the public begin to realize that pharmacists have obtained the highest level of education in their field and deserve to be called Dr.
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I think someone who has started the millionth thread on weather a pharmacist should be called Doctor screams tool.
hmmm...maybe i should edit my screen name? lol...I go by my first name at the pharmacy...i have never used "Dr" in my 6 years as a pharmacist...It's too formal...We are a laid back type of people here and when we were at the evil empire! No "Dr" for me...ever...
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dude... were doctors, period.
confusing or not. People should know that a physician is just a type of doctor. Same as a pharmacist, a dentist, etc... we're all types of doctors.
physicians dont have "Dr." copy written or something.
confusing or not. People should know that a physician is just a type of doctor. Same as a pharmacist, a dentist, etc... we're all types of doctors.
physicians dont have "Dr." copy written or something.
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Outside of an academic setting, I think it's inappropriate. Yes, I will earn my title and should be called doctor, but there are other things at play.
When someone hears "doctor" in a healthcare setting, they think of a physician. I will not be a physician, nor will I pretend to be. I understand the entire "doctor is from the Latin for teach, so we all can be called doctor!" argument, and its stupid. Yes, etymologically it might be correct, but in practice its misleading and possibly harmful. So while I may wish that I could use the title I'm earning, its in everyone's best interest to drop it.
And don't get me started on "Doctors of Nursing Practice"...
When someone hears "doctor" in a healthcare setting, they think of a physician. I will not be a physician, nor will I pretend to be. I understand the entire "doctor is from the Latin for teach, so we all can be called doctor!" argument, and its stupid. Yes, etymologically it might be correct, but in practice its misleading and possibly harmful. So while I may wish that I could use the title I'm earning, its in everyone's best interest to drop it.
And don't get me started on "Doctors of Nursing Practice"...
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I think that pharmacists devalue their own degree at times.
They are quick to say "im just a pharmacists" and do not really let people know they are doctors of pharmacy.
most people assume pharmacists are just a guy who did community college.
i think when seeing patients and saying "hello i am dr so and so, a clinical pharmacist" is perfectly fine.
maybe a lot of pharmacy students here disagree but i know med students who told pharmacists to not let anyone take your degree away from you.
i have seen plenty of attending physicians introduce pharmacists as "Dr. So and So, a pharmacists here to help with the medications"
a lot of this has to do with advancing the profession and it will not advance unless you take steps do that.
EDIT:
not sure if OP was talking about with co-workers. I think that just sets up a bad scenario. A lot of physicians go by first names but when with patients they go by Dr. I think if the pharmacist is insisting on being called Dr. with coworkers and nurses, that is just not the best way to form good relationships with each other. if the pharmacist is giving lectures and CME, then I think introduction as Dr. XYZ is appropriate.
Patients may think you are there to fill their prescriptions a lot of the time. If you represent your profession correctly then over time it will be translated to the public that you are more than just a guy who counts by 5, throws some M&Ms in a bottle and slaps a label on it. There is more to pharmacy than that.
They are quick to say "im just a pharmacists" and do not really let people know they are doctors of pharmacy.
most people assume pharmacists are just a guy who did community college.
i think when seeing patients and saying "hello i am dr so and so, a clinical pharmacist" is perfectly fine.
maybe a lot of pharmacy students here disagree but i know med students who told pharmacists to not let anyone take your degree away from you.
i have seen plenty of attending physicians introduce pharmacists as "Dr. So and So, a pharmacists here to help with the medications"
a lot of this has to do with advancing the profession and it will not advance unless you take steps do that.
EDIT:
not sure if OP was talking about with co-workers. I think that just sets up a bad scenario. A lot of physicians go by first names but when with patients they go by Dr. I think if the pharmacist is insisting on being called Dr. with coworkers and nurses, that is just not the best way to form good relationships with each other. if the pharmacist is giving lectures and CME, then I think introduction as Dr. XYZ is appropriate.
Patients may think you are there to fill their prescriptions a lot of the time. If you represent your profession correctly then over time it will be translated to the public that you are more than just a guy who counts by 5, throws some M&Ms in a bottle and slaps a label on it. There is more to pharmacy than that.
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I agree with advancing the profession, most people I talk to (outside of the profession) say " Oh I didnt know a pharmacist was a doctor." It just goes to show the level of ignorance so people need to be willing to educate others!
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As long as we serve at drive-thru locations and in the same place people by toilet paper, we will never be advanced.
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That's where you are wrong, imho - change starts on the small scale. It's unreasonable to expect some sort of grand change happening all at once, I think we have to start small. Plus, I see small sort of like "drive thourgh" or "stop by" physician clinics and even dental clinics being set up, so I don't think that speaks for anything.
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I'm not picking on you specifically but I see the bolded red argument being thrown around in every "dr-title" thread like there is no tomorrow. For once, I'd like to see ONE, just one, article ( link here would be fine) where introduction of a pharmacist by a doctor title led to a severe ADE or a negative outcome for a patient.
I don't see how anyone can be confused if you introduce yourself: " Hi, I'm Dr. Jones, I am THE pharmacist", emphasis on the pharmacist in the latter sentence. I've seen it done during my IPPEs, and this is how I'm going to practice.
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You're right. There are dentists and podiatrists and even optometrists running around multidisciplinary clinics - and they sure as hell insist on being called "Doctor". It's a bull**** argument. Not that it matters to me, because I don't care.
Exactly. Besides which, so what if someone thinks you're a physician because they're easily confused? As long as YOU do not practice outside your scope, there is NO harm. It's not like NPs and PAs who have similar roles in hospitals as physicians.
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I doubt there's an article like that, so I'm not going to even bother trying to defend my position on that. I agree with you on the second point, and I've also seen that used (successfully). However, you and I both know that some patients either aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, have serious issues with selective hearing, or some combination thereof. It's not that there's going to be an adverse outcome; just that however much we try to prevent it, people WILL hear what they want to hear.
I'll be a pharmacist, and I'm proud of that. I would rather people know that I'm a pharmacist instead of what salutation I have. People will remember the first title they hear (I'm almost certain there are studies on that), so I'll make sure that's the important one.
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You reside in the fantasy world of acedemia so it will be hard to get you to understand something in the real world.
Your average Joe Blow member of the general public is an idiot. When you are in any healthcare setting referring to someone as a Doctor, in 99.9% of the general publics mind, is referring to a Doctor of Medicine. No, I cannot not find an article or study that proves this nor do I care to try. It comes from my experience as an actual practicing pharmacist.
I doubt anyone will die if you call your self Dr. XYZ but it could create unnecessary confusion in the patients mind. True story. The pharmacists at the VA hospital where I am from insist everyone address them as Doctor. After an exam a veteran is told that Dr. Xyz will be right with them. The veteran is confused because he just saw a Doctor but waits patiently. A few minutes later a Pharmacist comes in to counsel the patient on thier medications. The pharmacist leaves and the Veteran sits in the room for 2 hours waiting for a Doctor becuase someone said a Doctor would be right with him not a pharmacist.
We are Pharmacists. Having a title doesn't make us any better or anymore professional. Almost every damn healthcare professional has a Doctorate in their respective field anyway. There are Doctorates of Audiology, Optometry, Physical Therapy, Occupational Therapy, Pharmacy, Podiatry, Nursing and on and on and on. The technical term for it is called degree creep. A nice way for schools to make more moneyby extending their programs and calling them Doctorates. Hell, before long the goddamn janitor in a hospital with have a Doctorate in sanitation engineering and will demand everyone call him a Doctor.
Once you graduate and pass your boards be proud to be a Pharmacist. I want people to know I am a Pharmacist. I introduce myself as John Doe, the Pharmacist. I do not want someone confusing me those damn Doctors!
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Well writ, sir.
Thanks. I am sure I will have 50 naive little students come along and try and blast me with regurgitated BS they hear from their professors in school. Crap like "We need to demand people respect us by using the title Doctor." Blah, blag, blah whatever. Calling myself Doctor would make me feel so much more professional as I am getting yelled at by someone in the drive through who is mad I won't let her use five $25 transfer coupons on her new prescriptions.
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I may be living in the demented world of academia, but I am also doing my IPPES and working out in the "real world" as you call, so that's what my reponse is based on - seeing how things are done in practice here in the great state of CA - at a local community pharmacy and the hospital my IPPEs are at, not in the demented world of academia as you put it.
As for finding the article, I didn't want an article about "you are in any healthcare setting referring to someone as a Doctor, in 99.9% of the general publics mind, is referring to a Doctor of Medicine". I want a goddamn article about how calling oneself a doctor caused a severe ADE on patient's part. Show me the harm of which you speak of. Of course you can't find anything about a patient going into anaphylactic shock over "dr's suggestions" because the total argument is BS and we both know it.
As for calling general public idiots - I don't go that far. I have faith in people and don't tend to just discount or brush them off because "they are general public". They may be health illetrate for the most part, but we aren't asking them to perform neurosurgery over here, we simply want respect we deserve after spending 10 + years dedicated to schooling and training for those of us going to reputable schools.
As for shouting out I'm proud of being a pharmacist - it's nice that you both throw it in there making it sound like others aren't. We are. We don't need to shout it. We are proud as it gets of being pharmacists. We are also not embarassed of our doctorate degrees - perhaps Joe the pharmacist is a good way to go, but Dr. Joe is not a bad way either.
Quite frankly, I'm not suprised about all the opposition here - anything new and different often faces opposition.
Well, I had no idea that pharmacists are doctors before college. Though to be fair i had never been to a pharmacy before college, or even considered what goes on there...
I think it's perfectly fine to use the title Doctor, but obviously you should be clear so everyone understands you're not a physician. Obviously it isn't very appropriate to demand to be called doctor in a retail setting though.
I think the only times I have heard someone refer to a pharmacist as doctor was from hispanic patients.
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A little defensive, no? Debbie and I both admitted that it was likely that no physical harm, ADE, etc. would be caused by a pharmacist introducing himself as "doctor" (I misspoke in my first post, I apologize). The "harm" may be a patient thinking we are something that we are not - a physician.
Neither of us called the public idiots (in this context, at least). However, the reality is that centuries worth of history, popular culture and practices throughout the rest of the world have taught the public that in the context of the healthcare system, "doctor = physician". Try as we might, psychology and sociology will prevent this perception from being changed. Why fight a losing battle when all it will do is needlessly confuse the patients you're trying to help, all in the name of your personal satisfaction?
I never said I would be embarrassed by my doctorate, and I plan on using it in appropriate situations that won't involve the potential to confuse a patient.
By the way, you really should stop wearing the "I go to UCSF" badge on your sleeve. This isn't the pre-pharmacy forum - the vast majority of us attend or have attended other *excellent* schools of pharmacy. It doesn't impress us.
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why is it okay for a pharmacist to demand to be called "doctor" in a hospital setting but not a retail setting? no need to alienate retail pharmacists here...
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wow, couldn't have said it better myself. i think it's safe to say this entire debate stems from personal insecurities. i for one do not care about my title or if i should be called "doctor" or not. i will do what is best for the patient and my colleagues regardless of what people call me.
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I think the real issue here is that the title of "Dr." for PharmD's (when presenting themselves) is used depending on where the individual is working. Regionally for you, it might be common for Pharm.D's to present themselves as "Dr. Smith, Pharmacist/PharmD", but you also have to take into account that CA is probably one of the most progressive states when it comes to pharmacy as profession. Also the issue of whether these pharmacists work in an academic/university/teaching hospital or a small community hospital in the middle of no where, where physician's prefer to hold onto their "god's of health care" status . NJ seems the polar opposite in terms of how progressive pharmacy is compared to CA, (actually NJ lacks progression in almost everything except corruption), but anyway a pharmacist trying to present themselves to patients along the lines of "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, Pharmacist" around here just isn't practical or common. Maybe it's an institutional thing around here because there are an ample amount of old school B.S. Pharm's still around who've never presented themselves in such a way and possibly the growing generation PharmD''s never took the initiative?...
I will admit that I have seen inter-departmental mail addressed to the PharmD's as "Dr.", its just that I've never heard them introduce themselves in such a way verbally.
Anyway, as a personal choice I will most likely forgo the Dr. title when presenting myself.
I will admit that I have seen inter-departmental mail addressed to the PharmD's as "Dr.", its just that I've never heard them introduce themselves in such a way verbally.
Anyway, as a personal choice I will most likely forgo the Dr. title when presenting myself.
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I had faith in people at one time too. But when people don't know to take the tin foil off of a suppository before they stick it up their ass they are idiots. Common sense really isn't that common. Another example is when you tell someone their prescription will be ready in 30 minutes and they insist on chilling in your drive thru eating a bag of Cheetos. That happened to me today. I had to explain to them to please come back in 30 minutes so I may help the next person. People are dumb.
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Is a simple bow at the waist acceptable or should we full on get down on the floor and do the we're not worhty ala Wanye's World?
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It takes about two weeks of retail to lose all faith in humanity. The stupidity of the American public never ceases to amaze me. I am reminded of it everyday. The first thought that comes to mind, and has almost slipped out of my mouth, is what plant are you from that acting or talking that way is acceptable?
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Yeah! way to go Pre-Health dude. You managed to troll everyone into another pointless inane discussion on what we should call ourselves.
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You lost all credibility right there by suggesting anything done in the f'd-up State of Kalifornia is an example of the right way to do things.
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In 2003 CA couldn't pass the budget and ran out of Medi-Cal funds. My hospital didn't get a payment for a while and ran out of money. So we had to borrow money from a local bank to make Payroll. We also couldn't pay the drug wholesaler and were promptly put on a credit hold. I had to run an inpatient pharmacy with no drug deliveries.... oh man good ole days.
It's taught me valuable lessons... how to run a pharmacy on a lean budget and also find the fast ticket the hell out of CA the first change I got.
It's taught me valuable lessons... how to run a pharmacy on a lean budget and also find the fast ticket the hell out of CA the first change I got.
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So how did you manage it? Trading/borrowing from nearby hospitals?
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Therapeutic substitutions with drugs in stock. And yes, borrowing and trading drugs with neighboring hospitals. Most importantly communicating with hospital staff and prescribers of the situation. Working together.
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I completely agree. I am proud of getting a doctorate but I honestly could care less if anyone calls me "Dr." as long as they are respectful to me as a pharmacist. I've always felt that people who insist on being called a doctor who are pharmacists have their head stuck up their ass. If I wanted to be called a doctor, I would've gone to med school. But in the academic setting, I always call my professors Dr. so-and-so as a sign of respect. But respect from the public doesn't come from them calling you a doctor; it comes from them realizing the knowledge you possess and how you help them find medication to cure their colds or from saving them from enduring an ADRxn. Once they realize how valuable you are to their life, then you gain respect from your work, not the title of 'Dr.' itself. Not to mention, most people don't even like doctors because they don't take (nor do they have) much time to spend with patients.
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This is all opinion, agree to disagree stuff.
Person A likes Dr, wants to be called it
Person B doesn't.
Etc etc.
neither side is likely to convince the other.
Person A likes Dr, wants to be called it
Person B doesn't.
Etc etc.
neither side is likely to convince the other.
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Yea, I really pidgeon-holed you guys. It's not like you could've just dismissed it as a thread made by a "tool," as you so eloquently phrased it, and ignored it. I guess you couldn't resist perpetuating the thread to make it into something you yourself disagreed with.
I kinda meant between workers but didn't elaborate on that. But I still think it is more descriptive to be called a pharmacist in retail.
Anyways, when do you get a chance in a retail setting to introduce yourself as "Dr. John Smith the Pharmacist"?
When do you even get the chance to introduce yourself in retail anyways lol?
Generally you answer the phone like "This is *insert retail chain name here* how can I help you?" or something along those lines.
Whenever someone has a question for the pharmacist it's always "Hold on and I will get the pharmacist for you." not "Hold on and I will get Dr. John Smith the pharmacist for you."
I guess the big thing is what everyone else has been saying, that a lot of people don't know pharmacists are doctors or would be confused by calling them doctors. If I you had to explain why the pharmacist is a doctor at a retail pharmacy every 5 minutes you'd go crazy. Hell, I've met pre-pharmacy and students going for med school that don't know pharmacists are doctors...
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Uh, I take that sentence to mean "I didn't know a pharmacist was an MD" and not "I didn't know a pharmacist has a doctorate."
You wouldn't say "I didn't know an economist was a doctor" even though the majority has a PhD in economics. It's the wrong usage. You would say "I didn't know an economist had a doctorate."
Seems pretty damn misleading if you ask me.
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I agree, doctorate = Dr only in academia. Only people who have dealt with Doctorates in academia are familiar with the idea of DR =/= MD. Using it with the public is unnecessary and confusing. But if it gives you a thrill then by all means go for it. I for one plan on making my family call me Dr. Newgrad and I may use it with friends/colleagues at first (until the novelty wares off) but not with patients. Nothing wrong with good ole "Hi I'm Humble Downtoearth, the pharmacist. How can I help you?". Beats "Hi, I'm Dr. Conceited O' Tool, the pharmacist. I spent 6+ years earning my Doctor of Pharmacy degree. Dr does not mean MD, it is an academic title that relates to educational level. How can I help you?".
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actually, when I was working at pfizer, colleagues greet teach others on a first name basis, but people who comes from the out-side should and do greet Ph.D level scientists as "nice to meet your, Dr. xyz". Not doing so is considered disrespectful.
In any formal setting, people who hold doctorate level degrees deserves to be called such. If you are doing casual chit chat or talking to what's-his-face-patient, then trying to be formal is being stuck-up.
In any formal setting, people who hold doctorate level degrees deserves to be called such. If you are doing casual chit chat or talking to what's-his-face-patient, then trying to be formal is being stuck-up.
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