Overcoming the feeling of failure...

[TylerJ]

Well, I did it, I withdrew from Calculus II today--big fat "W". I took my second exam, the first exam was a paltry 81, and this exam, was probably 60-70 range. As a result, I feel like a complete failure.

My reasons behind my dropping the class are:

1.) Health.
I was averaging 4-5 hours of sleep a night during the week, 2 hours during exam weeks. I felt physically ill and my brain did not seem to work too well after 1AM. I feel burnt out, even residually. I didn't go to school today, because I felt I would have just been a zombie sitting in a chair lamenting over my failure.

2.) Rusty in math.
It had been awhile since my calculus I course and I was just beginning to relearn what I unlearned overtime. The calculus II material was easy, but my ability to do the trig and algebra fast enough to do the calculus part was rusty and slow, which negatively affected my ability to perform during a test.

I wanted to commit more time to relearning and performing operations faster, but with my other classes I just could not play catch up like I presumed I could. Which leads to...


3.) Not enough time.

The rule of thumb is what? 3 hours of time to study for every hour of the course, right? Tell that to my chem lab professor, the lab calculations take that alone, typing them all out onto word is hellacious.

My wife works shift work, so I am a "single-dad" 4x out of the weekdays. So, from 3PM to 7PM each night, my life isn't really my life.

I have a 30-minute, one-way commute to school to boot.

Concurrently, I took chemistry, arabic and accounting. All of which I literally maintain a perfect 100% through two examinations. But, they take up a lot of time. I allocated a majority of my study time to calculus, but it wasn't yielding positive results fast enough.

Overall, for my first full-time semester in school, I think I was overly ambitious about what I could accomplish with the time I have.

Are these excuses at all legitimate or am I trying to validate underlying laziness or lack of ability to perform under intense academic stress?

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[badb100d]

FWIW, I've heard from many of my peers that Calc II is, well, beastly. In fact plenty of people who go into undergrad w/ AP credit elect to skip calc II altogether and jump ahead to calc III.

Seeing as you are taking a full course load, have family obligations, and it is your first full-time semester back in school, I think it is a bit harsh to consider yourself a failure or lazy. In fact, you haven't even failed an exam yet! Although you may have to explain this W later down the line, it's good that you had the sense to recognize when you were in over your head. Continue doing well in your other classes, use this semester to get back into the school groove and you should be ready to take on even more next semester. Good luck!

 

[Chevy Chase Fan]

I imagine its pretty hard to go to school with kids, but I found the excuses to be very weak. It sounds like you weren't getting enough sleep because you didn't plan your time right. As for being rusty at math, it sounds like you underestimated the class. As for commuting 30 minutes to school...that can't be a real excuse. My commute is 3xs that long.

This post is good for you to identify the things you need to improve on, but if I were an adcom and heard excuses like these, I would find it a big turn off. The fact is these aren't real excuses.

Medical emergencies, family dying, things like that are real excuses. What I see here isn't even close. The stuff you listed is simply part of life.

Good luck, hope everything works out. I'm sure you'll do well considering your grades in your other classes.

 

[katiemaude]

While I agree with ChevyChase that I wouldn't use those excuses with an adcom, I don't think you were being lazy by dropping the class. It sounds as if you took on too much your first semester (?) and you recognized that before it overwhelmed you. If you had simply realized you hadn't spent enough time on calc, and you had more hours in the day to spare, you wouldn't have dropped the class, I presume?

Don't beat yourself up over one W. One W is not going to mar your transcript. (Or so I've been told.)

 

[TylerJ]

Yes Katie, I think I said,"I wish there were 36 hours in a day", a few times a day.

I am just thankful that it is not a science class, I imagine those are given more weight than Calc II. Science and labs are sooooo easy, probably because I enjoy them. This does not push back my application date.

And, a 30-minute commute is an hour a day lost... that is a lot of time. That's 5 hours a week. 5 hours IS a lot of time.

As for the supposition about not using my time wisely resulting in my lack of sleep? Wrong. Most of my free time, I spent studying. I would even carry around flashcards with me everywhere, to study if I had to wait in traffic or in a line, etc...

Over the summer, I think I will retake Calc II, and take Orgo Chem I and nothing else--dunno if that will raise a flag to adcoms only taking two classes, but I used to work at a hospital and many docs took Orgo Chem over the summer solitarily, so I am not too concerned. Plus, It gives me time to tutor people in Calc I to refresh my skills.

From what I've gathered about adcoms from this SDN forums so far... seems that adcoms are inhuman and machine like people who pickout any weakness and prey upon it. But, you know what? When my 4-year old daughter asks, "Why you do not play with me anymore?", I realized things were not meshing and decided to give my life balance again, because it was not balanced--at all. "All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy", has merit.

IMO, making the choice to spend more time with your family and reduce the feeling of being overwhelmed isn't weak, but a choice any compassionate parent/person would make. I can always retake a class, but I cannot redo the 4th year of my daughter's life. As for the typical rebuke, "you will have to make sacrifices as a doctor, sometimes that will involving missing out on family time... blah blah"... well, it is significantly different to miss family time because you are saving a life, or ensuring quality medical care than figuring out if a series converges or not. Plus, by that time, my daughter won't want to spend time with me anymore-haha. Win/win.

 

[Luv2Cut]

In my former life I was a CS/EE major and pretty decent in math. However, Calc II kicked my butt 2x.

I aced Calc I. After I flunked Calc II the first time I took it, I went on to Calc III and made a "C". I should have had an "A" but I jacked around, which I attribute to being young and immature, the whole semester and had a bonified "F" going into the final. Fortunately the final was worth 50% of the grade and I made an "A" on the final!

When I retook Calc II the best I could muster was a "C". Its just a tough class IMO.

 

[TylerJ]

Yea, Calc II is WAY more involved than Calc I which was a breeze IMO. Though, I must contest that all the practice problems and reviewing I did was futile come test time, because no matter how many I did, they did not seem to adequately prepare me for what was on the test.

I'm not too concerned, this opens up my schedule immensely; now I can join the chemistry club again. Plus, I will take this again, no way I would walk away and not make a triumphant return to showcase my uncapped ability to do math.

 

[glamqueen]

It sounds like you have never taken a summer class, which is fine, but your post just caught my eye. Two classes like Orgo 2 and Calc 2 in the summer = overwhelming. I wouldn't do it, especially since you have a family and volunteering etc. The labs alone take forever for Orgo. Especially since you had problems in Calc before - don't do it. Summer classes are very intense, because they are crammed in such a short time period. I never took more than two at a time, and the summer I took Chem 2 and Bio 2 was one of the busiest summers of my academic history (plus volunteering etc.).

I don't think anyone would judge you for just taking one class with lab like that during the summer. Heck - many people don't even take summer classes. And to be honest, it really doesn't flipping matter how many you take at a time. In my opinion, at least. Get A's, get done, and do it at your speed. And don't let people "judge" you on how you spend your time or what you consider "enough." Especially when it comes to YOUR comfort level with your family time. You have plenty of times ahead if you make it down this path to miss time with them. Don't do it in pre-med. Seriously. And don't let another pre-med tell you otherwise. They don't know what they are talking about.

Best of luck!

 

[glamqueen]

PS - I got into medical school with more than one W. I was never even asked about them either. A bad GPA is worse than a few W's. You can't make that up, but sometimes they DON'T ask about the W's. As long as it isn't a whole bunch.

Sorry for the sort of rant. I get sick of seeing pre-meds tell other pre-meds about what matters when it comes to scheduling pre-med for getting into medical school! Don't worry about the naysayers!

 

[Chevy Chase Fan]

No one said this guy can't spend time with his kids.

Did you really NEED to stay up until midnight studying every night when you only had 4 classes, Tyler? Do you have a job?

As for the 30 minute commute, stop it. Just stop it Tyler. The majority of the people on this forum are commuting longer than that to jobs while they go to school. Get a bus pass and you can spend that extra hour a day cuddling up with your flashcards on the bus. You might even get to sleep at a reasonable hour.

I'm tired of seeing nothing but excuses around here. No one wants to own up to anything. No one ever says, "I tried my best but just didn't pull it off." Its always, "My professor is crazy and can't teach, I got mono, I had to work." Unless there's a medical or family emergency, there's no excuse. This dropping the class thing is such a small thing, its not gonna bury you, but the excuses drive me nuts. Saying this was "me learning how to allocate my time better" is one thing, but going through a laundry list of things like you did is nauseating.

 

[Chevy Chase Fan]

sorry, was in a bad mood when I wrote this.

 

[MCAT guy]

Let's encourage each other yo.

 

[glamqueen]

Let's encourage each other yo.

Agreed. There is no reason to get nasty on the OP. Life is different for all of us, and in pre-med where you have control over your schedule and the rate you cram things into your schedule - have control and enjoy it. That will go away in medical school and especially in your 80-hrs-week residency.

For the love of Pete, if the OP is exhausted and wants more family time - TAKE IT - before it is gone as a choice YOU can make for yourself. Slow and steady will still get you there, and if you feel that is what you need for now - that's fine. There is no "proving." Your grades and determination will still show, and adcoms aren't going to make a chart based on who spent the most hours isolated from society/family in class and in volunteering. They just want to see well-roundedness, MCAT, and grades.

Seriously.

OP - again, do what's best for you and don't worry about others' opinions.

 

[Luv2Cut]

By the way, what is your major? Unless you need it for your major why are you even taking Calc II? You don't need it for med school.

 

[TylerJ]

My major is chemical engineering and a minor in arabic, though I think this could begin to prove difficult to maintain my GPA where it is at; particularly, if I do not schedule well.

Thanks glamqueen for all the advice, and yea, it is probably not a great idea for summer time schedule, now that I break it down. Orgo chem and a less demanding course should sufficiently keep me occupied, but not overwhelmed. I've taken summer courses for every summer for the past 3 years, worst of all being a 2-week speech course--awful.

And, Chevy, I am sorry if I ranted too much for your tastes. I was having a bad day myself, because I am not used to putting in so much effort and coming up short. I will not go into further detail than I already have surrounding my reasons for requiring late-night study hours, but yes, it was required.

As for a job? Not technically, I was in the military working as a medic for 6 years, working full-time and going to school part-time; I saved up enough money to attend school without a job and have the MGI Bill to use at my discretion as well. However, I have other obligations such as parenting and volunteerism.

 

[n3xa]

I minored in math and hands-down that whole shells/washer method crap was the most borrrrrring subject ever and I always managed to mix things up.

Hang in there.

*hug*

Calc III was much more interesting and fun, imo. But you don't even need all of that for medical school.

 

[drimpossible]

By the way, what is your major? Unless you need it for your major why are you even taking Calc II? You don't need it for med school.

HMS requires two semesters of calculus.

 

[hello3angel]

While it's not good making excuses, I think many of your concerns are legitimate. Spending time with your daughter when she's growing up... that, to me, is a priority. She will never be that age ever again. You'll never have the chance to see her grow up ever again. Calculus will always be there.

I have contemplated switching my grading status to P/N for one of my classes, since I don't believe my current grade is representative of my potential. Working full-time really is a time-soaker, more than I ever thought it would be; plus it has been very taxing, sometimes requiring late nights which end up eating into study time at bad times of the month (e.g. right before exams, labs, etc.). I have often had to miss study groups and review/help sessions because of late assessments at work. Also, having no background in chemistry is really starting to take its toll--I'm falling really behind despite spending entire weekends studying. I want to really learn chemistry and have my grade reflect how solid my foundation is in the subject. Fleetingly cramming information in my head due to lack of time might work for geniuses, but I'm just average in that regard.

While it's not good to make excuses, it is definitely good to make note of your weak areas so that you can do whatever it is you need to do in order to put yourself in the best position for learning... and for med school apps... and for med school... and for being a doc. People seem to assume that having weak areas is inherent. They might be sometimes, but they certainly aren't always! Many times, weak areas can be fixed with good planning, time, and effort. Just do what's best for you.

Well, I did it, I withdrew from Calculus II today--big fat "W". I took my second exam, the first exam was a paltry 81, and this exam, was probably 60-70 range. As a result, I feel like a complete failure.

My reasons behind my dropping the class are:

1.) Health.
I was averaging 4-5 hours of sleep a night during the week, 2 hours during exam weeks. I felt physically ill and my brain did not seem to work too well after 1AM. I feel burnt out, even residually. I didn't go to school today, because I felt I would have just been a zombie sitting in a chair lamenting over my failure.

2.) Rusty in math.
It had been awhile since my calculus I course and I was just beginning to relearn what I unlearned overtime. The calculus II material was easy, but my ability to do the trig and algebra fast enough to do the calculus part was rusty and slow, which negatively affected my ability to perform during a test.

I wanted to commit more time to relearning and performing operations faster, but with my other classes I just could not play catch up like I presumed I could. Which leads to...


3.) Not enough time.

The rule of thumb is what? 3 hours of time to study for every hour of the course, right? Tell that to my chem lab professor, the lab calculations take that alone, typing them all out onto word is hellacious.

My wife works shift work, so I am a "single-dad" 4x out of the weekdays. So, from 3PM to 7PM each night, my life isn't really my life.

I have a 30-minute, one-way commute to school to boot.

Concurrently, I took chemistry, arabic and accounting. All of which I literally maintain a perfect 100% through two examinations. But, they take up a lot of time. I allocated a majority of my study time to calculus, but it wasn't yielding positive results fast enough.

Overall, for my first full-time semester in school, I think I was overly ambitious about what I could accomplish with the time I have.

Are these excuses at all legitimate or am I trying to validate underlying laziness or lack of ability to perform under intense academic stress?

 

[sunshinevet]

Well, I did it, I withdrew from Calculus II today--big fat "W". I took my second exam, the first exam was a paltry 81, and this exam, was probably 60-70 range. As a result, I feel like a complete failure.

My reasons behind my dropping the class are:

1.) Health.
I was averaging 4-5 hours of sleep a night during the week, 2 hours during exam weeks. I felt physically ill and my brain did not seem to work too well after 1AM. I feel burnt out, even residually. I didn't go to school today, because I felt I would have just been a zombie sitting in a chair lamenting over my failure.

2.) Rusty in math.
It had been awhile since my calculus I course and I was just beginning to relearn what I unlearned overtime. The calculus II material was easy, but my ability to do the trig and algebra fast enough to do the calculus part was rusty and slow, which negatively affected my ability to perform during a test.

I wanted to commit more time to relearning and performing operations faster, but with my other classes I just could not play catch up like I presumed I could. Which leads to...


3.) Not enough time.

The rule of thumb is what? 3 hours of time to study for every hour of the course, right? Tell that to my chem lab professor, the lab calculations take that alone, typing them all out onto word is hellacious.

My wife works shift work, so I am a "single-dad" 4x out of the weekdays. So, from 3PM to 7PM each night, my life isn't really my life.

I have a 30-minute, one-way commute to school to boot.

Concurrently, I took chemistry, arabic and accounting. All of which I literally maintain a perfect 100% through two examinations. But, they take up a lot of time. I allocated a majority of my study time to calculus, but it wasn't yielding positive results fast enough.

Overall, for my first full-time semester in school, I think I was overly ambitious about what I could accomplish with the time I have.

Are these excuses at all legitimate or am I trying to validate underlying laziness or lack of ability to perform under intense academic stress?

And, a 30-minute commute is an hour a day lost... that is a lot of time. That's 5 hours a week. 5 hours IS a lot of time.

As for the supposition about not using my time wisely resulting in my lack of sleep? Wrong. Most of my free time, I spent studying. I would even carry around flashcards with me everywhere, to study if I had to wait in traffic or in a line, etc...

Over the summer, I think I will retake Calc II, and take Orgo Chem I and nothing else--dunno if that will raise a flag to adcoms only taking two classes, but I used to work at a hospital and many docs took Orgo Chem over the summer solitarily, so I am not too concerned. Plus, It gives me time to tutor people in Calc I to refresh my skills.

From what I've gathered about adcoms from this SDN forums so far... seems that adcoms are inhuman and machine like people who pickout any weakness and prey upon it. But, you know what? When my 4-year old daughter asks, "Why you do not play with me anymore?", I realized things were not meshing and decided to give my life balance again, because it was not balanced--at all. "All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy", has merit.

IMO, making the choice to spend more time with your family and reduce the feeling of being overwhelmed isn't weak, but a choice any compassionate parent/person would make. I can always retake a class, but I cannot redo the 4th year of my daughter's life. As for the typical rebuke, "you will have to make sacrifices as a doctor, sometimes that will involving missing out on family time... blah blah"... well, it is significantly different to miss family time because you are saving a life, or ensuring quality medical care than figuring out if a series converges or not. Plus, by that time, my daughter won't want to spend time with me anymore-haha. Win/win.

My major is chemical engineering and a minor in arabic, though I think this could begin to prove difficult to maintain my GPA where it is at; particularly, if I do not schedule well.

Thanks glamqueen for all the advice, and yea, it is probably not a great idea for summer time schedule, now that I break it down. Orgo chem and a less demanding course should sufficiently keep me occupied, but not overwhelmed. I've taken summer courses for every summer for the past 3 years, worst of all being a 2-week speech course--awful.

And, Chevy, I am sorry if I ranted too much for your tastes. I was having a bad day myself, because I am not used to putting in so much effort and coming up short. I will not go into further detail than I already have surrounding my reasons for requiring late-night study hours, but yes, it was required.

As for a job? Not technically, I was in the military working as a medic for 6 years, working full-time and going to school part-time; I saved up enough money to attend school without a job and have the MGI Bill to use at my discretion as well. However, I have other obligations such as parenting and volunteerism.

Ok, everything I've bolded in these quotes all tell me one thing - you're working hard, not smart. If you can't study to stay on top of this coursework, its not going to work for med school. That bull**** about 3hrs study for every hour course work is just that - bull****. In medschool you'll just feel thankful if you get to skim all of the coursework once, and go over the important bits twice!!!

Basically, every post of yours tells me that you are not studying effectively. Not getting enough sleep to actually function is not effective - there is no point staying up to all hours "studying" if none of it is going in, and you wont be able to study tomorrow! It's counterproductive. And I think you need to sit down and go through your study habits - something is not working. You need to figure out what actually works, and then do that. Because by the sounds of things, your study habits are not functional.

I applaud your desicion to prioritize family time. Family is the most important thing in the world for me, and if it came down to family or vet school, it would be family, no contest. So sit down and work some study stuff out - most schools have study help centres that can help you with this. And good luck.

 

[sharmi]

HMS requires two semesters of calculus.

Actually, this is what the HMS website says:
One year of Calculus. A semester course in calculus that covers derivatives and integration plus a semester course in statistics (preferably biostatistics) may meet this requirement.

So technically, you take one semester of Calculus and a semester of Statistics or Biostatistics to meet the HMS math requirement.