PA interested in med school (3 year accelerated NYU program)

[AudreyH]

I am a physician assistant who has been practicing in dermatology for 5 years. I thought I would be happy working as a PA, but I keep going back to the thought of med school. That was my original plan, but I sort of settled for PA since I did not do well on my MCAT 10 years ago (24) and withdrew my med school application. I really regret that. I really want to learn more, which of course I can do on my own…but it’s not the same as a residency.

I feel like my only option would be NYU’s 3 year accelerated program since they have a derm residency and I do not want to spend the rest of my life paying off student loans. I still haven’t paid mine off from PA school. Does anyone know if you still have to do an intern year? Their program appealed to me since I already know I want derm and I don’t want to have to rotate through a bunch of areas I’m not interested in since I already did that in PA school.

I know NYU is very competitive, so I would have to do extremely well on the MCAT. I’m nervous about that because it has been a long time since I have taken those science classes. I have done volunteering in the past, but not since PA school since I work full time and have a long commute. I have 2 publications in the past. My undergrad GPA was 3.8 and PA school was 3.88. I have 2 dermatologists who I’ve worked with who can write letters of recommendation for me. Is there anything I should do to make my application more competitive?

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[Mr.Smile12]

Obligatory question: so you are not interested in the LECOM APAP.

Accelerated Physician Assistant Pathway | (LECOM)

The Accelerated Physician Assistant Pathway (APAP) is a fast-tracked, three-year medical school curriculum leading to the Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree.

lecom.edu

APAP currently has 12 slots for this pathway. Six slots are designated as “undeclared” meaning students enrolled may take a residency of their choice. The other six slots are “primary care” requiring the student to commit to undertake a residency and practice for five years in family practice, general internal medicine, pediatrics or OB/GYN. The APAP pathway is currently available at the LECOM at Seton Hill campus exclusively.

 

[AudreyH]

Obligatory question: so you are not interested in the LECOM APAP.

Accelerated Physician Assistant Pathway | (LECOM)

The Accelerated Physician Assistant Pathway (APAP) is a fast-tracked, three-year medical school curriculum leading to the Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree.

lecom.edu

APAP currently has 12 slots for this pathway. Six slots are designated as “undeclared” meaning students enrolled may take a residency of their choice. The other six slots are “primary care” requiring the student to commit to undertake a residency and practice for five years in family practice, general internal medicine, pediatrics or OB/GYN. The APAP pathway is currently available at the LECOM at Seton Hill campus exclusively.

I looked into that, but I’ve heard bad things about it. Also, I would prefer to be closer to family and NYC would be a lot closer.

 

[HMtoMD2023]

My only contribution is that it is hard, if not impossible, to place all of your eggs in the single school basket.

 

[AudreyH]

My only contribution is that it is hard, if not impossible, to place all of your eggs in the single school basket.

I know….if it was only me, I could, but I have my fiancé to think about.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Well there is always doing it the usual 4 year of medical school way. Plus the extra time in residency. And the debt. In the end, what is your endgame? Why do you have regrets on being a PA?

Add: You haven't paid off your PA school.debt, but you are thinking about adding more? I don't they will waive an intern year in a regular 4Y or accelerated program.

Can you not get advanced training as a PA? Go through medical school, and there's no guarantee you'll get placed in dermatology.

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appap.org

 

[AudreyH]

Well there is always doing it the usual 4 year of medical school way. Plus the extra time in residency. And the debt. In the end, what is your endgame? Why do you have regrets on being a PA?

Add: You haven't paid off your PA school.debt, but you are thinking about adding more? I don't they will waive an intern year in a regular 4Y or accelerated program.

Can you not get advanced training as a PA? Go through medical school, and there's no guarantee you'll get placed in dermatology.

Association of Postgraduate Physician Assistants Programs | My PA Network

Follow Association of Postgraduate Physician Assistants Programs to automatically receive news, announcements and priority invites to upcoming events.

appap.org

I have regrets because my dream since high school was always to go to med school and become a dermatologist. I thought I would be ok with being a PA, but it bothers me that we get reimbursed less even though I do the same exact thing as a derm. In other specialities, this isn’t always the case, but in derm I do everything the physicians do. It is also difficult to find other positions as a derm PA since it is so saturated. I’m also tired of patients not wanting to see me or don’t trust me since I’m a PA. I want to know everything a dermatologist knows. There isn’t really advanced training for derm PAs. I did a fellowship through the company I work for and I’ve done multiple other programs for derm PAs, but it’s obviously not the same as a residency. I just feel so stuck where I am.

Regarding the debt, that’s why NYU would be a top choice for me due to the full tuition scholarship. I know there isn’t a guarantee to get into derm, which is another concern since I only want derm. I

 

[SooConfused]

I have regrets because my dream since high school was always to go to med school and become a dermatologist. I thought I would be ok with being a PA, but it bothers me that we get reimbursed less even though I do the same exact thing as a derm. In other specialities, this isn’t always the case, but in derm I do everything the physicians do. It is also difficult to find other positions as a derm PA since it is so saturated. I’m also tired of patients not wanting to see me or don’t trust me since I’m a PA. I want to know everything a dermatologist knows. There isn’t really advanced training for derm PAs. I did a fellowship through the company I work for and I’ve done multiple other programs for derm PAs, but it’s obviously not the same as a residency. I just feel so stuck where I am.

Regarding the debt, that’s why NYU would be a top choice for me due to the full tuition scholarship. I know there isn’t a guarantee to get into derm, which is another concern since I only want derm. I

Here's the thing -- everyone has regrets because everyone has a path they didn't take, and the grass is always greener.

I checked out your posts from 10 years ago, and it totally sucks that you got derailed from your dream due to a bad MCAT score. For the record, that would be a 499 equivalent today, which probably wouldn't get you into any MD school in the country, and would be borderline for DO.

Your GPA was great, but that was 10 years ago. Have you given any thought to how difficult it will be, after all this time, working full time, to put in the work to achieve the kind of MCAT improvement you will need to get into any MD program at all (510ish)?

Also, after all this time, it is very possible that schools will want to see some recent upper level science post-bacc work (30 credits or so) to show you can handle the academic rigor of medical school after all these years away from a classroom. Most non-trads this many years out from school are career changers who need to go back to pick up the prereqs. Hopefully @Goro @gonnif @gyngyn @GoSpursGo etc. can weigh in on whether this would be necessary for you.

If so, it will literally take you several years, while continuing to work full time, just to do the post-bacc work and take the MCAT to put yourself in a position to apply. Then, if you are limiting yourself to NYC, or NYU-LI, you are significantly narrowing your window for success.

In any event, then you will have to deal with the fact that you picked one of the most competitive residencies, due to the money and lifestyle you are observing. Anyone's chances of matching into it, coming from anywhere, are extremely low. 42,549 applicants participated in the 2022 Match, 21,602 of which were US MDs and 8017 of which were DOs. Guess how many derm spots there were? 544.

Bottom line -- you made the right decision for yourself 10 years ago, and you are now practicing in an extremely competitive, highly desirable specialty The grass is not greener.

If you want to devote the years of your life that you were unwilling to sacrifice 10 years ago chasing this, you are certainly free to go ahead. But there are no shortcuts, and you will have the same low probability of transforming from a premed to a dermatologist that everyone else has. Except you are now 10 years older, 10 years further removed from an academic routine, with a life, career and a fiance, and it will be that much more difficult for you than for people a year or two out of UG.

What will you do in 2030, assuming you beat all the odds and get into a med school in NYC, even NYU, if you then don't match derm, like 290 of the self selected 834 people who applied for derm last cycle? If the answer is anything other than be thrilled that you are going to be a doctor, potentially with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, then my advice would be to be grateful for the career you have carved out for yourself, rather than tossing it away to explore the path not followed. JMHO.

 

[candbgirl]

When do you plan to retake the MCAT?
You’re only going to apply to the 3 year program at NYULI?
Do residencies allow you to skip PGY1 frequently or ever?

It sounds like you have a lot of autonomy where you are now. But to say you do “everything the Physicians do” is really surprising.

Good luck as you move forward.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

If you can keep your job and do the premed stuff, go ahead. Worst is that you don’t get in at NYU. Then you can move on with your life.

 

[AudreyH]

Here's the thing -- everyone has regrets because everyone has a path they didn't take, and the grass is always greener.

I checked out your posts from 10 years ago, and it totally sucks that you got derailed from your dream due to a bad MCAT score. For the record, that would be a 499 equivalent today, which probably wouldn't get you into any MD school in the country, and would be borderline for DO.

Your GPA was great, but that was 10 years ago. Have you given any thought to how difficult it will be, after all this time, working full time, to put in the work to achieve the kind of MCAT improvement to get into any MD program at all (510ish)?

Also, after all this time, it is very possible that schools will want to see some recent upper level science post-bacc work (30 credits or so) to show you can handle the academic rigor of medical school after all these years away from a classroom. Most non-trads this many years out from school are career changers who need to go back to pick up the prereqs. Hopefully @Goro @gonnif @gyngyn @GoSpursGo etc. can weigh in on whether this would be necessary for you.

The thing is that MCAT score was with me not really studying that much. I feel like my GPA from PA school should be more telling if I would do well in med school than undergrad. Undergrad is easier than PA school, and what I learned in PA school is more like med school than undergrad. I know I probably would have to retake some classes because a lot of schools have time limits on the pre-reqs.

Bottom line -- you made the right decision for yourself 10 years ago, and you are now practicing in an extremely competitive, highly desirable specialty The grass is not greener.

If you want to devote the years of your life that you were unwilling to sacrifice 10 years ago chasing this, you are certainly free to go ahead. But there are no shortcuts, and you will have the same low probability of transforming from a premed to a dermatologist that everyone else has. Except you are now 10 years older, 10 years further removed from an academic routine, with a life, career and a fiance, and it will be that much more difficult for you than for people a year or two out of UG.

What will you do in 2030, assuming you beat all the odds and get into a med school in NYC, even NYU, if you then don't match derm, like 290 of the self selected 834 people who applied for derm last cycle? If the answer is anything other than be thrilled that you are going to be a doctor, potentially with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, then my advice would be to be grateful for the career you have carved out for yourself, rather than tossing it away to explore the path not followed. JMHO.

You are probably right...it's not realistic. I know some people do it, but they have to sacrifice a lot or might be in a different situation than I am. I would definitely be upset if I didn't get into derm because that is the entire reason I would be going to med school. I think part of the reason I want to do this is because I am very unhappy with where I work. I am overworked and underpaid. The physicians have more control over their schedules and the PAs do not. I am basically stuck because of my non-compete and the limited job openings for derm PAs in my area. I see a lot of job opportunities for dermatologists, but not derm PAs.

 

[AudreyH]

When do you plan to retake the MCAT?
You’re only going to apply to the 3 year program at NYULI?
Do residencies allow you to skip PGY1 frequently or ever?

It sounds like you have a lot of autonomy where you are now. But to say you do “everything the Physicians do” is really surprising.

Good luck as you move forward.

Thanks!

I haven't even planned when I would take the MCAT yet. That's what I was thinking and if I didn't get in, just keep trying. Maybe eventually they would accept me lol. I have no idea about the intern year..I was just wondering since their website said you go straight into the residency, but I guess that is considered part of the residency?

I have a good amount of autonomy. My supervising physician doesn't even work at the office I work at. But he does have to sign off on some of my notes. Yes, I do everything the physicians (obviously not the mohs surgeons) do (diagnose and treat patients, skin cancer screenings, biopsies, laser, Botox, excisions, etc.)

 

[GoSpursGo]

To answer the most obvious questions--there is no way that you would be able to skip intern year. With the exception of the accelerated programs listed above, there is no shortcut through the 4 years of med school/3-7 years of residency training. Furthermore derm is exceedingly competitive, and you need to be certain that you would be OK with doing some other non-derm specialty in case you wind up not getting derm.

And on top of that, as you highlight, you need to consider your fiance and are geographically limited to a region with especially competitive medical schools.

If after all of that you want to take the MCAT and do all the other things you need to apply to med school, then best of luck to you. I am not saying it is a good idea or a bad idea--clearly it is financially suboptimal, but if you're going to be a self-loathing PA for the rest of your life then maybe it is worth it to you. It ultimately comes down to your values.

 

[Doctoscope]

There are 4.0 520+ students who don't get into NYU. It would be extremely risky, borderline impossible, to bank on a single, extremely competitive school that's also a huge stats w**re.

 

[FalconSlice]

I am a physician assistant who has been practicing in dermatology for 5 years. I thought I would be happy working as a PA, but I keep going back to the thought of med school. That was my original plan, but I sort of settled for PA since I did not do well on my MCAT 10 years ago (24) and withdrew my med school application. I really regret that. I really want to learn more, which of course I can do on my own…but it’s not the same as a residency.

I feel like my only option would be NYU’s 3 year accelerated program since they have a derm residency and I do not want to spend the rest of my life paying off student loans. I still haven’t paid mine off from PA school. Does anyone know if you still have to do an intern year? Their program appealed to me since I already know I want derm and I don’t want to have to rotate through a bunch of areas I’m not interested in since I already did that in PA school.

I know NYU is very competitive, so I would have to do extremely well on the MCAT. I’m nervous about that because it has been a long time since I have taken those science classes. I have done volunteering in the past, but not since PA school since I work full time and have a long commute. I have 2 publications in the past. My undergrad GPA was 3.8 and PA school was 3.88. I have 2 dermatologists who I’ve worked with who can write letters of recommendation for me. Is there anything I should do to make my application more competitive?

100% agree with @SooConfused post earlier in the thread. Couple of things:

1. I'll outline the "best" case scenario: you're 34 now I'm guessing from your post? You'll be 36 or 37 (after a postbacc, MCAT, etc.?) when you get into medical school, 40-41 when you graduate, 44-45 when you finish derm residency. At 45, you'll likely have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and only then become an attending (considering you're not doing a fellowship). I assume you'll want to have children by then which will have to happen during training too. You'll be paying off your debts well into your 50s or later (added cost of children, house, taxes, etc.).

2. "I do the same exact thing as a derm. In other specialities, this isn’t always the case, but in derm I do everything the physicians do."... I can't tell you how cringe this is...and I'm gonna call you out on it. Albeit, I don't know the specific practice you're in, your day-to-day life compared with the attending's, etc. I highly doubt that statement, and, in fact, working with derm PAs, I know this isn't the case for any PAs I've met.

3. You seem to have buyer's remorse after having made the decision to go PA about 10 years ago. It may be harsh, but perhaps it's best to get over it at this point and enjoy your life as it is. Getting reimbursed more for the "same work dermatologists do" is a terrible idea to go down this path. As it has been said ad nauseam: it is not guaranteed that you'll even get into medical school without severe overhaul of your MCAT and future postbac schooling and it is not guaranteed you'll match into derm (there are scores and scores of rockstar applicants every year with 260+ Step scores and multiple pubs that don't match from great schools...).

4. You must have known this would and could be the case when you made the decision 10 years ago. I also read your previous posts and you say it was because (even back then) you thought you could do the same thing as dermatologists and you couldn't study for MCAT well. If that small hurdle changed your course, you surely must have known what the two training paths and outcomes would've been like?

At the end of the day, you can do what you want and these are just my honest opinions/thoughts. I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, but if I were you, I'd stay a PA and forget medical school. It doesn't help you now, but for almost all things: things are best done right the first time around...

FS

 

[AudreyH]

100% agree with @SooConfused post earlier in the thread. Couple of things:

1. I'll outline the "best" case scenario: you're 34 now I'm guessing from your post? You'll be 36 or 37 (after a postbacc, MCAT, etc.?) when you get into medical school, 40-41 when you graduate, 44-45 when you finish derm residency. At 45, you'll likely have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and only then become an attending (considering you're not doing a fellowship). I assume you'll want to have children by then which will have to happen during training too. You'll be paying off your debts well into your 50s or later (added cost of children, house, taxes, etc.).

2. "I do the same exact thing as a derm. In other specialities, this isn’t always the case, but in derm I do everything the physicians do."... I can't tell you how cringe this is...and I'm gonna call you out on it. Albeit, I don't know the specific practice you're in, your day-to-day life compared with the attending's, etc. I highly doubt that statement, and, in fact, working with derm PAs, I know this isn't the case for any PAs I've met.

3. You seem to have buyer's remorse after having made the decision to go PA about 10 years ago. It may be harsh, but perhaps it's best to get over it at this point and enjoy your life as it is. Getting reimbursed more for the "same work dermatologists do" is a terrible idea to go down this path. As it has been said ad nauseam: it is not guaranteed that you'll even get into medical school without severe overhaul of your MCAT and future postbac schooling and it is not guaranteed you'll match into derm (there are scores and scores of rockstar applicants every year with 260+ Step scores and multiple pubs that don't match from great schools...).

4. You must have known this would and could be the case when you made the decision 10 years ago. I also read your previous posts and you say it was because (even back then) you thought you could do the same thing as dermatologists and you couldn't study for MCAT well. If that small hurdle changed your course, you surely must have known what the two training paths and outcomes would've been like?

At the end of the day, you can do what you want and these are just my honest opinions/thoughts. I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, but if I were you, I'd stay a PA and forget medical school. It doesn't help you now, but for almost all things: things are best done right the first time around...

FS

Thanks. I guess it just isn't realistic. I thought it would be helpful that I worked in derm to be able to get into a derm residency. Honestly, I was in a bad place at that point and in an emotionally/verbally abusive relationship and that's why I couldn't concentrate on studying on the MCAT. I think that's also what upsets me about this situation.

 

[SooConfused]

Thanks. I guess it just isn't realistic. I thought it would be helpful that I worked in derm to be able to get into a derm residency. Honestly, I was in a bad place at that point and in an emotionally/verbally abusive relationship and that's why I couldn't concentrate on studying on the MCAT. I think that's also what upsets me about this situation.

It will, along with having a super high Step 2 score, tons of productive research, and doing extremely well in med school, preclinical if it's graded, and especially clinical. ALL the rotations, not just derm.

You cannot possibly know that you will be able to check all of those boxes before you even start. 10 years experience as a PA is simply not going to substitute for the other things. It will merely give you a leg up assuming you also have the other stuff.

You also have no guarantee of even being accepted to med school. THAT is what you are facing as you contemplate beginning the journey.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thanks. I guess it just isn't realistic. I thought it would be helpful that I worked in derm to be able to get into a derm residency. Honestly, I was in a bad place at that point and in an emotionally/verbally abusive relationship and that's why I couldn't concentrate on studying on the MCAT. I think that's also what upsets me about this situation.

For what it is worth, I do really empathize with you--there are a lot of us who look back at who we were in our early 20s and wonder what the hell we were thinking at the time. Who we were then and any mistakes that we may have made do not define who we are as people.

Thankfully, it sounds like you landed on your feet. You didn't achieve exactly the goal that you set out to, but you are earning a very good, stable living doing something meaningful. *And* despite the long road ahead... I really want to emphasize that it isn't TOTALLY crazy to consider going back to med school. People figure out how to get there later in life all of the time. I just really would ensure that if you do that, that you are truly open to *any* field of medicine, because chances are that you won't wind up in derm.

Best of luck in whatever you choose to do going forward.

 

[AudreyH]

For what it is worth, I do really empathize with you--there are a lot of us who look back at who we were in our early 20s and wonder what the hell we were thinking at the time. Who we were then and any mistakes that we may have made do not define who we are as people.

Thankfully, it sounds like you landed on your feet. You didn't achieve exactly the goal that you set out to, but you are earning a very good, stable living doing something meaningful. *And* despite the long road ahead... I really want to emphasize that it isn't TOTALLY crazy to consider going back to med school. People figure out how to get there later in life all of the time. I just really would ensure that if you do that, that you are truly open to *any* field of medicine, because chances are that you won't wind up in derm.

Best of luck in whatever you choose to do going forward.

Thanks! Maybe it isn’t a good idea since I don’t think I would be happy in another specialty.

 

[EArlyBirdGetsTheWorm]

Not only do you want to go into one of the most competitive specialties, but you want to go to a school that is next to impossible to get in without having ties to the school?
I would say that if you really want to be a doctor, you should go to any MD that takes you. Getting into Derm will obviously be difficult wherever you go, but im assuming you have built some connections as a PA. I would hope that your fiancee is supportive and would move wherever you go.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

When do you plan to retake the MCAT?
You’re only going to apply to the 3 year program at NYULI?
Do residencies allow you to skip PGY1 frequently or ever?

It sounds like you have a lot of autonomy where you are now. But to say you do “everything the Physicians do” is really surprising.

Good luck as you move forward.

It is my understanding that these programs shorten the clinical years in med school. They make them do clinical between 1st and 2nd yr, which actually shortens the trad 4yr program by 9 months, or 1 yr of school. I don't think Acgme loosens a yr of training for PAs in residency, but I could be wrong.

 

[mlfpprf]

I know….if it was only me, I could, but I have my fiancé to think about.

This is the point where you really need to decide between medicine and another path. Would you regret not being a physician in 2032? If the answer is yes, then you can't put your eggs in one basket. If no, then medicine might not be the right path for you. Chase your dreams, and everyone who supports you will follow.

 

[mlfpprf]

If you're thinking about the NYU LI program that is 3 years and only has 24 students, then you should know that the preclinical phase is 1 year and the clinical phase is 2 years. They do guarantee residency placement but you must declare which type of residency you want to go to on your med school application.

 

[DPTtoMD23]

I will chime in as someone who is coming from another healthcare position, I am in my 30s and a current physical therapist.
I don't really hear any passion in your posts regarding medicine in a way I would recommend going on this journey to apply to medical school. It has been SO taxing to even get to the application stage.

Some major differences I see,

• I am absolutely interested in and OK with matching into IM or FM residency and am not set on one specific route. IM and FM are by far the most common specialties for med students to match in. Don’t do this if you are NOT ok with the possibility of becoming someone’s PCP.
• My spouse and child are 100% OK with moving to any area of the country to pursue my education and I have cast a wide net to improve my chances of acceptance.
• I have no debt from undergrad or PT school, making this financially easier for my family.
• I actually make fairly good money as a clinical manager and am not interested in medicine to get a pay bump
• I would not be here if it wasn’t for the passion I have for my patients, my longitudinal relationships with them, and my hunger for learning medical problem-solving

It sounds simply like you want a higher salary and larger flexibility in derm (specifically) and at this point going through this entire, hellish process just on the VERY SMALL chance you will get into a program for derm seems rash.

I would recommend looking at options within your career that would make you happier or more fulfilled.

/2cents

 

[candbgirl]

I will chime in as someone who is coming from another healthcare position, I am in my 30s and a current physical therapist.
I don't really hear any passion in your posts regarding medicine in a way I would recommend going on this journey to apply to medical school. It has been SO taxing to even get to the application stage.

Some major differences I see,

• I am absolutely interested in and OK with matching into IM or FM residency and am not set on one specific route. IM and FM are by far the most common specialties for med students to match in. Don’t do this if you are NOT ok with the possibility of becoming someone’s PCP.
• My spouse and child are 100% OK with moving to any area of the country to pursue my education and I have cast a wide net to improve my chances of acceptance.
• I have no debt from undergrad or PT school, making this financially easier for my family.
• I actually make fairly good money as a clinical manager and am not interested in medicine to get a pay bump
• I would not be here if it wasn’t for the passion I have for my patients, my longitudinal relationships with them, and my hunger for learning medical problem-solving

It sounds simply like you want a higher salary and larger flexibility in derm (specifically) and at this point going through this entire, hellish process just on the VERY SMALL chance you will get into a program for derm seems rash.

I would recommend looking at options within your career that would make you happier or more fulfilled.

/2cents

This. You are so correct. There is no passion expressed. It seems OP is only applying for the prestige and pay increase. OP seems mad that docs make more and get more credit for their work. And OP if you get interviews be very careful in how you express your obvious frustrations in your job. And for heavens sake stop saying you do everything that docs do (even if you do). There is a great debate about mid level encroachment . No sense in turning off the readers/reviewers/interviewers . The whole process is fraught with mini bombs and hard enough without opening up something you don’t need to open. People will learn soon enough .

 

[Staphbreak]

just be sure that this is what you want to do . its a big change

 

[Pshalt]

You should allow for the possibility that exposure to all other clinical medicine may inspire you to pursue a different medical path than derm. Don't do it for derm. It's a wide world of medicine.

 

[fd25]

NYULI only offers applicants the options of: IM, general surgery, OBGYN, and peds.

I’m sorry that you’re in this predicament, OP, and I hope that you’re able to make peace and find happiness with whatever decision you make.

 

[fogo]

Yeah I'm sorry, but the cards are stacked against you. You could still do cosmetic/derm-ish medicine coming out of something like FM. Wanting something like 3 year accelerated NYU program is like a college ball player wanting a mega NBA contract so I'd honestly brush that thought aside.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Trying for any one program, much less NYU, is simply not feasible given the current competitiveness of MD admissions.

 

[never-too-late]

What do you have to lose by applying (other than a few thousand in test prep, test fees and application fees)? You have set a near impossible bar for yourself, especially considering you have struggled with the MCAT in the past. It’s 1 application. If you make it in then you know it was meant to be. Personally, I’m skeptical, but if you make it in, what does anyone else’s opinion matter??

Personally, I believed I wouldn’t be satisfied being anything but a physician (after trying out another career), so I submitted like 20-30 MD and DO applications and took the best offer I got: which felt like a more realistic strategy. My family (which I also had to consider) and I figured out how to manage the fact that I didn’t get into the highly competitive school closest to home.

 

[niko327]

I am a physician assistant who has been practicing in dermatology for 5 years. I thought I would be happy working as a PA, but I keep going back to the thought of med school. That was my original plan, but I sort of settled for PA since I did not do well on my MCAT 10 years ago (24) and withdrew my med school application. I really regret that. I really want to learn more, which of course I can do on my own…but it’s not the same as a residency.

I feel like my only option would be NYU’s 3 year accelerated program since they have a derm residency and I do not want to spend the rest of my life paying off student loans. I still haven’t paid mine off from PA school. Does anyone know if you still have to do an intern year? Their program appealed to me since I already know I want derm and I don’t want to have to rotate through a bunch of areas I’m not interested in since I already did that in PA school.

I know NYU is very competitive, so I would have to do extremely well on the MCAT. I’m nervous about that because it has been a long time since I have taken those science classes. I have done volunteering in the past, but not since PA school since I work full time and have a long commute. I have 2 publications in the past. My undergrad GPA was 3.8 and PA school was 3.88. I have 2 dermatologists who I’ve worked with who can write letters of recommendation for me. Is there anything I should do to make my application more competitive?

Hey AudreyH,
I've been in your boat and I've given advice to others in your position. I was a PA in IM, Cardiology and Critical care for a lot of years, and was encouraged to become a physician by my physician colleagues. So I did. I did a traditional 4 year program, no bridge program. I have heard similar concern from other PAs I've worked with over the years, some asking for advice about going to medical school. The single best advice I can offer you is to get yourself in touch with someone at the admissions office of a prospective school. Try and get in and talk with them, transcripts in hand and ask them about what they'd need to see from you to make yourself a viable candidate. It's something that can be done with a little bit of persistence. Then be prepared to spend a year or two getting yourself to a place where your coursework is acceptable and you can succeed on the MCAT. I Please keep in mind that the MCAT is a formidable challenge and not something that you can really knock out quickly. You need to perform well on that test, if you don't they will not consider you much further. The med school adcoms want to know if you're going to hack it during didactics. My PA credential on its own did not really reassure the adcoms that I could succeed in medical school, despite my excellent performance in that program. It was my recent coursework and MCAT score were the things that gave them the reassurance they needed to accept me. Certainly, they liked the fact that I was a bit of a novelty, bringing years of experience to the table. At the same time, they wanted to make sure that I was trainable in light of all my experience (it truly is a double edged sword) because you have to put aside what you only think you know. In the end, my PA degree was only useful in so far as it made me stand out a bit from the other prospective applicants as someone who understands what its like to work as a professional. Your PA degree will likely be treated similarly. As a PA, I too "did everything that my physician supervisors did" but trust me, there's so much more to know, I can't even begin to tell you. It's so deeply humbling. Be prepared to work for this goal if you really want it. Med school will make you work so much harder than you ever have and you and you will sacrifice quite a lot with respect to family relationships. You will go in to significant debt, PSLF helps but you have to do your research. Med school will be orders of magnitude more difficult than anything you've done before, academically, but if you love it, you CAN do it.

 

[Splenda88]

I am glad I listened to the better part of myself reading this thread.

I was debating NP vs. MD/DO after being a RN for ~8 yrs. At the end, I said f... it. I am gonna take the prereqs and MCAT. Fast forward 10 yrs later I am glad I did instead of taking a short cut. I know that I am better prepared to practice medicine. Also, I don't want anyone to co-sign anything I do. NP/PA cant practice independently in my state.

As an aside note: Last week, some surgeons where I work made the hospital administration took away physician dinning room privilege from all midlevels. No more midlevels in the physician dinning room... only physicians are allowed.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

As an aside note: Last week, the entitled surgeons where I work made the hospital administration took away physician dinning room privilege from all midlevels. No more midlevels in the physician dinning room... only MD/DO.

Interesting. Does this happen to be in the Midwest or South? I’ve noticed that midlevels tend to have more privileges in the coasts which is strange because these are the areas with the lowest need for MLs

 

[Splenda88]

Interesting. Does this happen to be in the Midwest or South? I’ve noticed that midlevels tend to have more privileges in the coasts which is strange because these are the areas with the lowest need for MLs

Southeast.

Many weren't happy, but administration is firm and said they are not going back to the old policy... Surgeons are semi GOD here.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I’m firmly against autonomous practice and what not but don’t really see why the dining lounge is that big of a deal. Must be a symbolic type thing

 

[Splenda88]

I’m firmly against autonomous practice and what not but don’t really see why the dining lounge is that big of a deal. Must be a symbolic type thing

I agree.

I kind of feel bad for them. It's just food that I think ALL employees should get for free...not only physicians.

PA/NP are not autonomous here. I have been in this job for only 1 year and I have caught RN badmouthing NP multiple times... saying things of that sort "they get an easy online degree but they think they are doctors".

 

[Splenda88]

I will chime in as someone who is coming from another healthcare position, I am in my 30s and a current physical therapist.
I don't really hear any passion in your posts regarding medicine in a way I would recommend going on this journey to apply to medical school. It has been SO taxing to even get to the application stage.

Some major differences I see,

• I am absolutely interested in and OK with matching into IM or FM residency and am not set on one specific route. IM and FM are by far the most common specialties for med students to match in. Don’t do this if you are NOT ok with the possibility of becoming someone’s PCP.
• My spouse and child are 100% OK with moving to any area of the country to pursue my education and I have cast a wide net to improve my chances of acceptance.
• I have no debt from undergrad or PT school, making this financially easier for my family.
• I actually make fairly good money as a clinical manager and am not interested in medicine to get a pay bump
• I would not be here if it wasn’t for the passion I have for my patients, my longitudinal relationships with them, and my hunger for learning medical problem-solving

It sounds simply like you want a higher salary and larger flexibility in derm (specifically) and at this point going through this entire, hellish process just on the VERY SMALL chance you will get into a program for derm seems rash.

I would recommend looking at options within your career that would make you happier or more fulfilled.

/2cents

If OP is driven by money and prestige, I dont see any wrong with that as along as he will be a good physician.

I would not become a doctor if salary was 100-150k. Most of my colleagues wouldn't based on my conversation with them.

 

[PikminOC]

There are 4.0 520+ students who don't get into NYU. It would be extremely risky, borderline impossible, to bank on a single, extremely competitive school that's also a huge stats w**re.

And nyu is very competitive as everyone wants the free med school tuition

 

[PikminOC]

I am glad I listened to the better part of myself reading this thread.

I was debating NP vs. MD/DO after being a RN for ~8 yrs. At the end, I said f... it. I am gonna take the prereqs and MCAT. Fast forward 10 yrs later I am glad I did instead of taking a short cut. I know that I am better prepared to practice medicine. Also, I don't want anyone to co-sign anything I do. NP/PA cant practice independently in my state.

As an aside note: Last week, some surgeons where I work made the hospital administration took away physician dinning room privilege from all midlevels. No more midlevels in the physician dinning room... only physicians are allowed.

Even in the states that are "autonomous" I see collaboration with physicians

 

[nimbus]

I am a physician assistant who has been practicing in dermatology for 5 years. I thought I would be happy working as a PA, but I keep going back to the thought of med school. That was my original plan, but I sort of settled for PA since I did not do well on my MCAT 10 years ago (24) and withdrew my med school application. I really regret that. I really want to learn more, which of course I can do on my own…but it’s not the same as a residency.

I feel like my only option would be NYU’s 3 year accelerated program since they have a derm residency and I do not want to spend the rest of my life paying off student loans. I still haven’t paid mine off from PA school. Does anyone know if you still have to do an intern year? Their program appealed to me since I already know I want derm and I don’t want to have to rotate through a bunch of areas I’m not interested in since I already did that in PA school.

I know NYU is very competitive, so I would have to do extremely well on the MCAT. I’m nervous about that because it has been a long time since I have taken those science classes. I have done volunteering in the past, but not since PA school since I work full time and have a long commute. I have 2 publications in the past. My undergrad GPA was 3.8 and PA school was 3.88. I have 2 dermatologists who I’ve worked with who can write letters of recommendation for me. Is there anything I should do to make my application more competitive?

NYU med is among the most competitive medical schools in the country. NYU derm is an order of magnitude more competitive than than NYU med. As mentioned above, NYU med is a complete stat *****. It is full of people who are standardized test savants. If you did poorly in MCAT the first time, it is unlikely you’ll do well enough on the retake 10 years later. I wouldn’t count on NYU derm because most medical students shouldn’t count in NYU derm.

 

[PikminOC]

I think you should take the MCAT and then apply. Don't let everyone here get you down. Trying is better than not trying

 

[mlfpprf]

I think you should take the MCAT and then apply. Don't let everyone here get you down. Trying is better than not trying

I think the problem with her is that she is going into medicine because she wants a pay raise because she believes she already does 90%+ of what physicians do in her current practice. And her post history indicates that she doesn't do particularly well on stuff that really matters to med schools. Not trying to put her down, but I'm just citing evidence.

 

[PikminOC]

I think the problem with her is that she is going into medicine because she wants a pay raise because she believes she already does 90%+ of what physicians do in her current practice. And her post history indicates that she doesn't do particularly well on stuff that really matters to med schools. Not trying to put her down, but I'm just citing evidence.

Who doesn't want to make more money? She can apply like anyone else.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The problem isn’t the pay raise, I think it’s more of the effort of taking prereqs and MCAT for something that is highly unlikely to manifest itself. If OP said she was willing to apply more broadly and or be happy in a non-derm specialty, there would’ve been more broad support on here

Most derm applicants also need research year OP

 

[candbgirl]

The problem isn’t the pay raise, I think it’s more of the effort of taking prereqs and MCAT for something that is highly unlikely to manifest itself. If OP said she was willing to apply more broadly and or be happy in a non-derm specialty, there would’ve been more broad support on here

Most derm applicants also need research year OP

^^^THIS exactly. I’m not sure she wants to be a doctor unless it’s on her terms only.

 

[PikminOC]

^^^THIS exactly. I’m not sure she wants to be a doctor unless it’s on her terms only.

We can't read her mind.

 

[candbgirl]

We can't read her mind.

That’s why I said “I’m not sure…”. Interesting she hasn’t been back in 2 weeks.

 

[PikminOC]

That’s why I said “I’m not sure…”. Interesting she hasn’t been back in 2 weeks.

She may be lurking.

 

[AudreyH]

Hey AudreyH,
I've been in your boat and I've given advice to others in your position. I was a PA in IM, Cardiology and Critical care for a lot of years, and was encouraged to become a physician by my physician colleagues. So I did. I did a traditional 4 year program, no bridge program. I have heard similar concern from other PAs I've worked with over the years, some asking for advice about going to medical school. The single best advice I can offer you is to get yourself in touch with someone at the admissions office of a prospective school. Try and get in and talk with them, transcripts in hand and ask them about what they'd need to see from you to make yourself a viable candidate. It's something that can be done with a little bit of persistence. Then be prepared to spend a year or two getting yourself to a place where your coursework is acceptable and you can succeed on the MCAT. I Please keep in mind that the MCAT is a formidable challenge and not something that you can really knock out quickly. You need to perform well on that test, if you don't they will not consider you much further. The med school adcoms want to know if you're going to hack it during didactics. My PA credential on its own did not really reassure the adcoms that I could succeed in medical school, despite my excellent performance in that program. It was my recent coursework and MCAT score were the things that gave them the reassurance they needed to accept me. Certainly, they liked the fact that I was a bit of a novelty, bringing years of experience to the table. At the same time, they wanted to make sure that I was trainable in light of all my experience (it truly is a double edged sword) because you have to put aside what you only think you know. In the end, my PA degree was only useful in so far as it made me stand out a bit from the other prospective applicants as someone who understands what its like to work as a professional. Your PA degree will likely be treated similarly. As a PA, I too "did everything that my physician supervisors did" but trust me, there's so much more to know, I can't even begin to tell you. It's so deeply humbling. Be prepared to work for this goal if you really want it. Med school will make you work so much harder than you ever have and you and you will sacrifice quite a lot with respect to family relationships. You will go in to significant debt, PSLF helps but you have to do your research. Med school will be orders of magnitude more difficult than anything you've done before, academically, but if you love it, you CAN do it.

Thank you for your advice. It’s tough because I really want to learn more medicine, but at the same time, I don’t want to be paying off student loans for the rest of my life.