Pain Fellowship Reviews

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madcye said:
If you want top tier i think with ERAS they cut off by the step scores. My coresident went to 20+ interviews at big name programs with 240-250 step scores and 98-99% ITEs. Mine were average scores for both and i got 7 interviews at good programs but not BWH/BID etc. I think the places I went to went to liked my personal statement and research because they said so during the interview.
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In the grand scheme of things, ITE's are not very important. Few will really look at it, some will ask for it, most won't care. That being said, a person with high step scores and high ITE's is also likely (but not always) to be motivated enough to have good research projects, LOR's, experience, EC's, etc. Personal statements are nice icing on the cake and great for a nice conversation during interviews. At big-time programs like BWH, your LOR's and your presence in the pain world (research, publications, committees, presentations, etc.) will be most impressive. The interview will be to make sure you're not a psychopath.
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paintrain said:
In the grand scheme of things, ITE's are not very important. Few will really look at it, some will ask for it, most won't care. That being said, a person with high step scores and high ITE's is also likely (but not always) to be motivated enough to have good research projects, LOR's, experience, EC's, etc. Personal statements are nice icing on the cake and great for a nice conversation during interviews. At big-time programs like BWH, your LOR's and your presence in the pain world (research, publications, committees, presentations, etc.) will be most impressive. The interview will be to make sure you're not a psychopath.
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Thanks, good advice.
 
I'd like to give a quick review of Scott and White's Pain program. I see a lot of talk on the forum about the big name places in the country and which ones are considered to be the best and I believe Scott and White deserves consideration in that discussion. I'm currently a fellow there and being 4 months into the fellowship, I know very well the strengths and weaknesses. The fellowship is relatively new, first opening in 2012 and because of this we have flown under the radar for the first few years. Currently, there are 2 spots per year with plans to expand in the future. The fellowship is based out of Temple, TX, 45 minutes north of Austin, and there are 5 other clinics that fellows can rotate through in surrounding towns.

Regarding procedure volume we're probably second to none from what I can tell. I base this off of talking with friends across the country at other programs as well as comparing numbers to other fellows I've met at cadaver courses. On the forums here there are a lot of programs described as "very interventional" and "high volume" but often there are no specifics given to quantify these claims. Fellows here have performed 90 stims during the year on the low end up to 120 on the high end, pump cases have been 14-30+, vertebroplasty and kyphoplasty have been 25-40. In addition to those major procedures there are hundreds of the bread and butter injections, RFAs, peripheral blocks, alcohol and botox injections, etc. Currently, I personally have performed 39 stim cases, 11 pump cases, 4 vertebroplasty (very slow compared to previous fellows), 4 discograms, 47 RFAs, and numbers are in the hundreds for ESIs, major joints, MBBs, etc. There is a wide range of procedures performed and all procedures currently performed by pain docs in practice are performed here in high volume.

Lifestyle is superb. Work hours are excellent with fellows home by 4pm almost always and often home earlier. No call whatsoever, not even pager call. There is in-house moonlighting available doing anesthesia in the surgery center, working Saturday pain clinic shifts, and doing overnight shifts in a local long term acute care hospital.

The attendings are great with great backgrounds, many of which trained at Texas Tech when it was in it's prime, several who stuck around after finishing their fellowship here.

The main clinic is busy, with roughly 70% of patients getting interventions, 30% medication management. There are two fluouro suites with all procedures being done the same day as office visit. Clinic runs like a private practice model with high volume and efficiency. Fellows learn billing/coding in addition to the medicine side of pain management. Recent graduates I've talked to have said they performed in the 90th percentile MGMA their first year out of fellowship in terms of production which they attributed to them having done such a high volume during fellowship and having already learned the billing and coding.

Fellows rotate with the Palliative Care service where the focus is cancer pain and medication management. They also rotate with the headache clinic, a tertiary referral center for difficult to manage headache patients.

Weaknesses - Scott and White has a great regional reputation but the name doesn't carry the weight that MAYO, Brigham, MGH etc does. There isn't much research either. With time, word will spread and the reputation will certainly grow.

gaspain said:
Long-time lurker, first time poster. Followed this thread for awhile so thought I'd contribute.

Brigham & Women's Hospital (BWH) - 10/10
No doubt in my mind that BWH is the TOP program in the country. This forum has always stated Brigham as the best and after my interviews and speaking to many other people, I think I agree. The most interventional of the programs, good cancer experience at Dana Farber Cancer Institute. Alumni network is big just like MGH and the Harvard name doesn't hurt either. Speaking with all the fellows, the Brigham Pain name travels far when looking for a job as practices and recruiters nationwide would love a Harvard-trained physician on their staff. They work hard but decent hours. Nice people. Their interview day seemed kind of rushed though. This program wins a ton of awards. Overall outstanding training. I've heard that if you receive an interview here, you can consider yourself top of the recruiting class for that year. 8 spots.

Best of luck.
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I see reviews like this and wonder how Scott and White compares. While I didn't interview at BWH myself, more than one of our applicants this year did and according to our applicant survey feedback, all who interviewed there ranked Scott and White number one. The same can be said about MAYO, Beth Isreal, UCSD, MD Anderson, and a number of other top notch programs. I'm not here to say Scott and White is better than these programs, I just want to let others know that if they're interested in those programs, Scott and White may be another place they should look in to.
 
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Thank gdub for that excellent review. Sounds like a great program.
 
Seems that not much is written about Stanford University's (Palo Alto, CA) pain program, and I am strongly interested in their fellowship. My understanding from talking to those in the pain management field is that is that they have strong leadership, research, and are building up their procedure areas as their interventional volumes are on way on the rise. Thanks in advanced for your perspectives...
 
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Stanford's program is strong. People on this board routinely mention the Excellence Award in Pain Management as if that is something special, and Stanford won it in 2008, 2012, and will likely win it next year when it is eligible for it again.
 
Any comment on Columbia? I know Cornell has a solid program with their tri institution rotations but haven't heard much about Columbia. Interesting to note that almost all their graduates leave for pain while for all the other fellowships like cards, peds, critical care they all stay.
 
secants said:
Any comment on Columbia? I know Cornell has a solid program with their tri institution rotations but haven't heard much about Columbia. Interesting to note that almost all their graduates leave for pain while for all the other fellowships like cards, peds, critical care they all stay.
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I wouldn't necessarily consider leaving your home program as a sign that your program is bad. My home program is excellent and highly coveted but many of the residents leave because they have ample exposure to our pain center and want to see how things are done at a different program. That being said, I haven't heard a lot of great things about Columbia. It is an ivy league and that always looks like on your CV. If you primary goal is to stay in NYC, then it's a must to check out.
 
Green Grass said:
When people state "Mayo" is one of the best programs, is that Rochester, Jacksonville, or Phoenix?
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Rochester, but Jacksonville and Scottsdale are also excellent programs and the fellows do interact a couple times during the year.
 
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Green Grass said:
What's the word on MCW's program?
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In the past few years MCW has become an excellent pain program. The fellows receive lots of procedural training from dedicated faculty at the pain center and from instructors at the private practice right next door. Leadership is down to earth and passionate about pain training, and treat you like respected colleagues. Dr. Hurley is a leader in the field along with Dr. Adams. Fellows were happy there. They are one of the few programs that incorporates peds pain training as well. I ranked it quite high last cycle.
 
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gaspain said:
Brigham & Women's Hospital (BWH) - 10/10
No doubt in my mind that BWH is the TOP program in the country. This forum has always stated Brigham as the best and after my interviews and speaking to many other people, I think I agree. The most interventional of the programs, good cancer experience at Dana Farber Cancer Institute. Alumni network is big just like MGH and the Harvard name doesn't hurt either. Speaking with all the fellows, the Brigham Pain name travels far when looking for a job as practices and recruiters nationwide would love a Harvard-trained physician on their staff. They work hard but decent hours. Nice people. Their interview day seemed kind of rushed though. This program wins a ton of awards. Overall outstanding training. I've heard that if you receive an interview here, you can consider yourself top of the recruiting class for that year. 8 spots.

Best of luck.
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:thumbup: Agreed. I interviewed at several programs including Brigham, Mayo, MGH, BID, Stanford, UCLA, UW, UCSF, CCF. While they all have their own different flavors and definite strengths, I thought BWH really had the complete package.
 
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greelatin said:
I see some programs but when i call them they say they are ACGME certified
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I am basically a FMG , ECFMG certified and completed my anesthesia residency in my home country with good clinical experience
 
When is every1 submitting ? I noticed a lot of programs look like they r participating in eras this year and others have "incomplete registration" whatever that means
 
greelatin said:
I am basically a FMG , ECFMG certified and completed my anesthesia residency in my home country with good clinical experience
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Unfortunately for you, if you want to practice anesthesia here you'll have to redo residency training all over again and then pass all the standard boards both oral and written. You might be able to do a non ACGME accredited fellowship but it's unlikely as you didn't do your residency training here.
 
Does anyone have any input about University of Rochester's program? Strong is a great hospital and many of the surgery and medicine programs are well regarded, but I can't seem to find a review on the pain fellowship. Has anyone trained there or interviewed there recently who can shed some light on the quality of the pain training?

Thanks.
 
These message boards connected me with people who gave me useful information and advice, and it's only fair I do the same. I am grateful to have interviewed at the programs I did, and I met wonderful people throughout the process (attendings, fellows, and applicants). With that said, the following places were at the top of my ROL:

Scott & White -- Temple, TX
Vanderbilt -- Nashville, TN
Carolina Pain Institute/Wake Forest -- Winston-Salem, NC
MD Anderson -- Houston, TX
Brigham & Women’s -- Boston, MA

PM with specific questions.
 
Those of you applying now - are you finding that Step scores are more important than ITE scores? Seems that all programs want Steps but not everyone is wanting or seeing your ITEs.
 
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Historically, a significant amount of fellowship program invitations are sent out during the summer months. This trend may continue this year with many faculty present at the first annual NANS mid year meeting. More information and networking opportunities can be found here: <link deleted by mod>
Best wishes to those seeking a career in pain medicine
 
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I'm applying currently and would like to point out the University of Kansas pain program. It's currently in its first year, with one fellow, and going forward there will be 2 (2 matched for the coming year, one in-house, one from outside). It's a private practice-paced program in an academic medical center. I've read above that Scott and White has extraordinary procedure numbers, and KU is similar if not higher. I don't know the exact number but the current fellow did about 10 pain pumps within his first month (implants, not trials), and there are typically several radiofrequency ablations per day. We have a tremendous volume of intrathecal pumps and SCS. Our program director is highly interventional and does a lot of cutting edge stuff like dorsal root ganglion stims and spinal radiofrequency ablations for tumors. The Kansas City area is a nice place to live - low cost of living, moderate weather, great schools, and big enough to have all the big city cultural and sports attractions.
 
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callmeanesthesia said:
I'm applying currently and would like to point out the University of Kansas pain program. It's currently in its first year, with one fellow, and going forward there will be 2 (2 matched for the coming year, one in-house, one from outside). It's a private practice-paced program in an academic medical center. I've read above that Scott and White has extraordinary procedure numbers, and KU is similar if not higher. I don't know the exact number but the current fellow did about 10 pain pumps within his first month (implants, not trials), and there are typically several radiofrequency ablations per day. We have a tremendous volume of intrathecal pumps and SCS. Our program director is highly interventional and does a lot of cutting edge stuff like dorsal root ganglion stims and spinal radiofrequency ablations for tumors. The Kansas City area is a nice place to live - low cost of living, moderate weather, great schools, and big enough to have all the big city cultural and sports attractions.
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Kansas is going to be one of the best programs in the country in a few years. They just need some name recognition and to let their fellows grow a reputation. Sayed is an extraordinarily talented Pain guy and seems like a wonderful PD. He's doing things nobody else is doing and the lifestyle for the fellows is actually manageable. Unfortunately they take one in house guy so basically everyone is interviewing for single spot but definitely worth the trip if you're lucky enough to get an invite. This place was high on my rank list..

ex 61N
 
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61November said:
Kansas is going to be one of the best programs in the country in a few years. They just need some name recognition and to let their fellows grow a reputation. Sayed is an extraordinarily talented Pain guy and seems like a wonderful PD. He's doing things nobody else is doing and the lifestyle for the fellows is actually manageable. Unfortunately they take one in house guy so basically everyone is interviewing for single spot but definitely worth the trip if you're lucky enough to get an invite. This place was high on my rank list..

ex 61N
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I agree that Kansas was an excellent program and I felt very lucky to get an interview there this year. Can anyone comment on UCSD, UC Davis, UIC, Dartmouth and University of Toledo? I am interested to know procedure volume, diversity of procedures, and acute pain responsibilities. I've seen posts on here about some of these programs from years past but would love an update with current information. Thank you!
 
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Can anyone provide an updated opinion on a few NYC, California, Chicago, and Boston programs.

NYC: Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Mt. Sinai

Boston: MGH, Brigham, BIDMC

Chicago: NW, U Chicago

California: UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, Cedars
 
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Can anyone comment on average STEP exam scores to be competitive for pain fellowship? Is there a cut off score?
 
Stringbean938 said:
FREIDA does not give specific USMLE data for pain fellowship.
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Actually, many programs are listed with an * on the list. Click on these, then on the General Information tab, and the minimum USMLE scores are there. Voila!
 
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If the AAPM excellence award is an important distinction, why aren't more people talking about the four 2016 winners? Those programs are rarely discussed in the reviews.


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Green Grass said:
If the AAPM excellence award is an important distinction, why aren't more people talking about the four 2016 winners? Those programs are rarely discussed in the reviews.
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The reviews are very anecdotal, and most of them quite stale. Just a few pages back is 5 years old and not particularly relevant. Something to keep in mind.
 
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Mikado8 said:
Actually, many programs are listed with an * on the list. Click on these, then on the General Information tab, and the minimum USMLE scores are there. Voila!
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Thanks! I wonder how reliable this data is. A lot of these average step scores seem awfully low. Also nice to see some programs have opened additional positions over last year.
 
Dawkter said:
Can anyone provide an updated opinion on a few NYC, Chicago, and Boston programs.

NYC: Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Mt. Sinai

Boston: MGH, Brigham, BIDMC

Chicago: NW, U Chicago
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NYC: Cornell has traditionally been lauded as the best program in New York, based on the cancer experience at MSK (Memorial-Sloan Kettering) and the regional experience at HSS (Hospital for Special Surgery). But I think the reputation of those names outweigh the actual benefit from them to the pain fellowship training itself. I was pleasantly surprised with Mt. Sinai. They are comprehensive and have a decent ultrasound program.

Boston: Brigham & Women's is far and away the best program in Boston (and likely the country). They are highly interventional and provide a lot of freedom for their fellows. Excellent teaching, Harvard name, great post-fellowship jobs, highly regarded across the country, and they stole big wig Rathmell away from MGH recently. Search "BWH" or "Brigham" throughout this forum and you'll see what all the talk is about. MGH is also a highly regarded program in the country. They recently won the Clinical Center of Excellence award from APS so they must be doing something right. BIDMC is again, a great program but unfortunately, the geographical vicinity of the program to BWH/MGH causes a shadow effect. Boston is a pain powerhouse. Cannot go wrong with any of these programs.

Chicago: NW has a moderately interventional program in a beautiful part of the city. If you've ever thought about living in Chicago, this is the program to attend. Beautiful facilities. Small program and (I think) one is reserved for PM&R. Much of the staff also worked in the OR too, if you're interested in getting advice about that. They mentioned that sometimes they are scutted out to do preop epidurals for surgery (although rare, I had enough of these during residency). Also big wig Benzon is there. I wouldn't consider applying to UChicago unless you really needed to be in Chicago or are from UChicago. It's a 2 person program and they historically take in-house candidates.
 
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paintrain said:
NYC: Cornell has traditionally been lauded as the best program in New York, based on the cancer experience at MSK (Memorial-Sloan Kettering) and the regional experience at HSS (Hospital for Special Surgery). But I think the reputation of those names outweigh the actual benefit from them to the pain fellowship training itself. I was pleasantly surprised with Mt. Sinai. They are comprehensive and have a decent ultrasound program.

Boston: Brigham & Women's is far and away the best program in Boston (and likely the country). They are highly interventional and provide a lot of freedom for their fellows. Excellent teaching, Harvard name, great post-fellowship jobs, highly regarded across the country, and they stole big wig Rathmell away from MGH recently. Search "BWH" or "Brigham" throughout this forum and you'll see what all the talk is about. MGH is also a highly regarded program in the country. They recently won the Clinical Center of Excellence award from APS so they must be doing something right. BIDMC is again, a great program but unfortunately, the geographical vicinity of the program to BWH/MGH causes a shadow effect. Boston is a pain powerhouse. Cannot go wrong with any of these programs.

Chicago: NW has a moderately interventional program in a beautiful part of the city. If you've ever thought about living in Chicago, this is the program to attend. Beautiful facilities. Small program and (I think) one is reserved for PM&R. Much of the staff also worked in the OR too, if you're interested in getting advice about that. They mentioned that sometimes they are scutted out to do preop epidurals for surgery (although rare, I had enough of these during residency). Also big wig Benzon is there. I wouldn't consider applying to UChicago unless you really needed to be in Chicago or are from UChicago. It's a 2 person program and they historically take in-house candidates.
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Thanks for the excellent and informative post!

Any information on Columbia? Seem to hear a lot about Cornell.

Also, how do the California programs rank in terms of national reputation/procedural volume?
 
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paintrain said:
NYC: Cornell has traditionally been lauded as the best program in New York, based on the cancer experience at MSK (Memorial-Sloan Kettering) and the regional experience at HSS (Hospital for Special Surgery). But I think the reputation of those names outweigh the actual benefit from them to the pain fellowship training itself. I was pleasantly surprised with Mt. Sinai. They are comprehensive and have a decent ultrasound program.

Boston: Brigham & Women's is far and away the best program in Boston (and likely the country). They are highly interventional and provide a lot of freedom for their fellows. Excellent teaching, Harvard name, great post-fellowship jobs, highly regarded across the country, and they stole big wig Rathmell away from MGH recently. Search "BWH" or "Brigham" throughout this forum and you'll see what all the talk is about. MGH is also a highly regarded program in the country. They recently won the Clinical Center of Excellence award from APS so they must be doing something right. BIDMC is again, a great program but unfortunately, the geographical vicinity of the program to BWH/MGH causes a shadow effect. Boston is a pain powerhouse. Cannot go wrong with any of these programs.

Chicago: NW has a moderately interventional program in a beautiful part of the city. If you've ever thought about living in Chicago, this is the program to attend. Beautiful facilities. Small program and (I think) one is reserved for PM&R. Much of the staff also worked in the OR too, if you're interested in getting advice about that. They mentioned that sometimes they are scutted out to do preop epidurals for surgery (although rare, I had enough of these during residency). Also big wig Benzon is there. I wouldn't consider applying to UChicago unless you really needed to be in Chicago or are from UChicago. It's a 2 person program and they historically take in-house candidates.
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Thanks for the info.
Any info on Mt. Sinai, St. Luke's, and NYU?
How do you feel about Cleveland programs?
 
Just starting my California program interviews (only 1 so far), and wanting to know how everyone feels about the fellowships on the west-coast (Stanford, UCLA, UC-Davis, UCSF, USC, etc..)

Had Stanford last week and it was great-- tons of research and programmatic awards. Also they are increasing their procedure volume vastly with some pretty hardcore interventions, its even posted on their website:

http://med.stanford.edu/content/dam/sm/pain/documents/Pain_Procedures_7-2016.pdf

feedback anyone? thoughts?
 
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Trying to gather more opinions about BIDMC, Northwestern, and Cornell. Any thoughts on which order you would rank these 3 programs with no real preference regarding location.
 
Dawkter said:
Trying to gather more opinions about BIDMC, Northwestern, and Cornell. Any thoughts on which order you would rank these 3 programs with no real preference regarding location.
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BID > Cornell > NW

all 3 great cities to live for a year
 
Am inquiring about potential serious drawbacks of the following programs, beyond the obvious considerations of interventional vs research vs med management focus and geographical location.

Any hidden red flags here, such as current inordinate load of uncomplicated postop pain, scut, disruptive attendings or malignant culture?

Feel free to PM me if you are hesitant to share here.

Dartmouth
Penn
Stanford
U of Washington
U of Virginia
BWH
Cleveland Clinic
UAB
U of Maryland
 
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Heard from former co-fellows of mine that Stanford had very low interventional experience, UW doesn't have adequate volume to support the number of fellows it has, and BWH inpatient service can be absolutely brutal. Also, BWH fellows don't get trained how to do lumbar TFESI which seemed odd to me.


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