PCOM vs Howard College of Medicine

[Instatewaiter]

So you think attending any LCME accredited school (in that case a low tier one) is better than attending one of the top DO schools...

Yes. Your possibilities in the match are better.

Too many people are hating OMM. While I have no experience with it...

See this is where you should just stop...

ACGME PDs don't know the requirements or rigors of being accredited by COCA, which are lower than LCME's. But I see a lot of people here saying "Some of the best DO schools > low tier MD schools" with nothing to back them up but "feelings". When I compare the residency list of PCOM and Howard, I would attend Howard any day.

This is one of the concerns PDs have- that the education is so variable, even within a single school. So a PD doesn't know whether he/she is getting someone who has tons of experience and exposure to the things an intern needs to know or not.

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[reapplicanthelpme2014]

Yes. Your possibilities in the match are better.




See this is where you should just stop...



This is one of the concerns PDs have- that the education is so variable, even within a single school. So a PD doesn't know whether he/she is getting someone who has tons of experience and exposure to the things an intern needs to know or not.

But PCOM is one of the oldest, most reputable programs, and they have a history of producing physicians that perform just as good or better than the neighboring MD schools. Does that not help to ease The minds of the PDs?

 

[DrEnderW]

But PCOM is one of the oldest, most reputable programs, and they have a history of producing physicians that perform just as good or better than the neighboring MD schools. Does that not help to ease The minds of the PDs?

Many people, most often in academia, see DOs in a program as a sign of weakness and that their program is not prestigious. Same with IMGs. It doesn't matter what the education was like at that point. Having the letters DO is the roadblock, not your board scores or ability to take a history and write up a note. When applying ACGME as a DO, your school name is of limited value - all DO schools are unranked/lowest tier. I'm not saying it's right but it's a fact for many programs.

This isn't really a matter of anyone's opinion. Look at the program director survey for % of programs that rank DOs for proof. If you're not interested in academic medicine/ big university centers in competitive specialties it is of no concern.

 

[user3]

Based on what? The student body of JHU may not be the same but you're learning the same material as someone attending JHU if you attend an LCME accredited school no matter how low the school is ranked. The only difference is research opportunities and name recognition/prestige (which means a lot, but we're talking education here). JHU doesn't learn anything that mid and lower tier schools aren't taught. However, for DO schools they're mixed since you have some great schools but then you have schools that have people thinking how they can possible be a school and ACGME PDs don't know the requirements or rigors of being accredited by COCA, which are lower than LCME's. But I see a lot of people here saying "Some of the best DO schools > low tier MD schools" with nothing to back them up but "feelings". When I compare the residency list of PCOM and Howard, I would attend Howard any day.

Darklabel- you attend one of these low tier MD schools that hallow man refers to. Are hit/miss/garbage (ie, unevenness in quality) rotations a common issue for your school's 3rd/4th year like with DO schools?

 

[user3]

Yes. Your possibilities in the match are better.




See this is where you should just stop...



This is one of the concerns PDs have- that the education is so variable, even within a single school. So a PD doesn't know whether he/she is getting someone who has tons of experience and exposure to the things an intern needs to know or not.

I'm not sure I fully buy the "uncertain quality" argument for DO bias. For example, there are apparently plenty of lower tier MD programs with similar clinical education quality control issues as DO schools- and they don't face the degree of bias that DO students do.

Do you think that if our schools were brought up to LCME standards, DO bias would be greatly reduced?

 

[hallowmann]

I clearly said "for DO schools they're mixed since you have some great schools but then you have schools that have people thinking how they can possible be a school and ACGME PDs don't know the requirements or rigors of being accredited by COCA, which are lower than LCME's."


I am very well aware that some DO schools are great, but from what data do people extrapolate that some DO schools are better than low tier MD schools? You also don't know how Howard handles their education there or what their clinical rotations are like so how can you make an assertion of how much better a DO school is over it? Maybe the education can be similar, but I wouldn't go as far as saying better like I see some people saying here spouting sometimes without any facts except "It just seems like it".

You missed my point. I was not disagreeing with that point or saying X DO schools are better than X MD schools. Look over my post history. Have I EVER said that? I'm sure that could be the case, but I didn't say that.

I was disagreeing with the ridiculous idea that DO schools on a whole don't offer solid education to the point its justified for PDs to question the entire profession. You were the one that made the statement that some DO schools you wonder how they can even be schools. That's ridiculous. Its not like there's no standards. My point was that you can't make an assertion like that, because the truth is that there isn't a big difference education-wise between a DO school and a low-tier MD school. I may not be 100% familiar with Howard, but I have many friends and relatives that have gone to different low-tier MD schools. I also have a bunch of friends at a top-20. I've seen the curricula. I've seen the clinical sites (I've worked at some of them as well).

 

[ChrisGriffen]

bolding the only important part in this statement.

Lol. Coming from the dude who posted in residency forums as a pre med

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Lol. Coming from the dude who posted in residency forums as a pre med

Wow! Posting!

 

[Instatewaiter]

But PCOM is one of the oldest, most reputable programs, and they have a history of producing physicians that perform just as good or better than the neighboring MD schools. Does that not help to ease The minds of the PDs?

First it doesn't have the same history of producing the same quality as say, Penn or even Jeff. I can't think of a single clinical leader that has come from PCOM but I can think of a handful from penn or Jeff. I have met a ton of very impressive, very good clinicians from Penn and Drexel. The docs from PCOM I have met weren't anything special. This isn't to say that they don't produce reasonable physicians but to act like they produce the best physicians in Philadelphia is a lie.

This sentiment is borne out in the matches to say HUP right down the street from PCOM. In the last decade or so, they have not taken a PCOM graduate for their IM program... and that's just while I have been following. And it's in the same city. Could this be stigma... perhaps.

Even were we to assume the product was the same, there are a handful of hastles you have to deal with including time spent learning OMM, extra board exams, more difficulty getting ACGME positions, the stigma and the ocassional patient who doesn't know what a DO is.

Look if you don't get into an MD it's a moot point. But, if you get into a low tier MD that you think you could be happy with, it's a no brainer.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Lol. Coming from the dude who posted in residency forums as a pre med

Coming from the dude who lied about having "inside" friends in the AOA claiming that the merger would never happen, 4 days before the surprise announcement.

And then cursing me out when I called him out on it.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I'm not sure I fully buy the "uncertain quality" argument for DO bias. For example, there are apparently plenty of lower tier MD programs with similar clinical education quality control issues as DO schools- and they don't face the degree of bias that DO students do.

Do you think that if our schools were brought up to LCME standards, DO bias would be greatly reduced?

Is it all of it? No. Is it some of it? yes.

The problems with clinical education aren't as endemic with the low tier MD programs with problems like: like no central site, having to travel literally all over the country for different "rotations", unestablished rotations, teaching at primarily non-teaching centers. Don't get me wrong, places like RFU and FSU have multiple rotation sites but these are exceptions rather than the rule.

I think if all med schools were under accredited by the same group and all residencies were under the same accrediting body it would go a long way toward improving education and reducing the DO stigma

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Coming from the dude who lied about having "inside" friends in the AOA claiming that the merger would never happen, 4 days before the surprise announcement.

And then cursing me out when I called him out on it.

Yea I looked pretty dumb in that thread. I can own that.

In my defense, i never said the merger wouldn't ever happen...I said that they weren't still having discussions. Thats because the discussions were happening under a nondisclosure agreement and this person was protecting him/herself

Never cursed you out though. Good try.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

First it doesn't have the same history of producing the same quality as say, Penn or even Jeff. I can't think of a single clinical leader that has come from PCOM but I can think of a handful from penn or Jeff. I have met a ton of very impressive, very good clinicians from Penn and Drexel. The docs from PCOM I have met weren't anything special. This isn't to say that they don't produce reasonable physicians but to act like they produce the best physicians in Philadelphia is a lie.

This sentiment is borne out in the matches to say HUP right down the street from PCOM. In the last decade or so, they have not taken a PCOM graduate for their IM program... and that's just while I have been following. And it's in the same city. Could this be stigma... perhaps.

Even were we to assume the product was the same, there are a handful of hastles you have to deal with including time spent learning OMM, extra board exams, more difficulty getting ACGME positions, the stigma and the ocassional patient who doesn't know what a DO is.

Look if you don't get into an MD it's a moot point. But, if you get into a low tier MD that you think you could be happy with, it's a no brainer.

Oh okay. So because you haven't met any "impressive, very good clinicians" from PCOM, they don't exist? Noted. I get that you're pro-MD, but that doesn't mean you have to knock an entire school that's been around for hundreds of years. For the record, I've encountered Drexel and Temple grads who speak highly of PCOM. We can continue throwing around "I know this person" stories all day, but I'm not sure because you met a couple PCOM grads, that means that they're obviously all the same. Thanks for the info though.

 

[user3]

Is it all of it? No. Is it some of it? yes.

The problems with clinical education aren't as endemic with the low tier MD programs with problems like: like no central site, having to travel literally all over the country for different "rotations", unestablished rotations, teaching at primarily non-teaching centers. Don't get me wrong, places like RFU and FSU have multiple rotation sites but these are exceptions rather than the rule.

I think if all med schools were under accredited by the same group and all residencies were under the same accrediting body it would go a long way toward improving education and reducing the DO stigma

I have to echo an earlier poster who wishes AOA/COCA would read posts like these.

Sadly for whatever reason, AOA/COCA seem to show no interest in attempting to bring greater respectability to the DO degree-- they would rather degrade it by expanding irresponsibly, refusing to discard questionable aspects of OMM, and other things. In the end, students suffer for it.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Yea I looked pretty dumb in that thread. I can own that.

In my defense, i never said the merger wouldn't ever happen...I said that they weren't still having discussions. Thats because the discussions were happening under a nondisclosure agreement and this person was protecting him/herself

Never cursed you out though. Good try.

 

[darklabel]

You missed my point. I was not disagreeing with that point or saying X DO schools are better than X MD schools. Look over my post history. Have I EVER said that? I'm sure that could be the case, but I didn't say that.

I was disagreeing with the ridiculous idea that DO schools on a whole don't offer solid education to the point its justified for PDs to question the entire profession. You were the one that made the statement that some DO schools you wonder how they can even be schools. That's ridiculous. Its not like there's no standards. My point was that you can't make an assertion like that, because the truth is that there isn't a big difference education-wise between a DO school and a low-tier MD school. I may not be 100% familiar with Howard, but I have many friends and relatives that have gone to different low-tier MD schools. I also have a bunch of friends at a top-20. I've seen the curricula. I've seen the clinical sites (I've worked at some of them as well).

Meh, I didn't intend this to be an MD vs. DO debate. I don't see any proof of how a DO school and a low-tier MD school are comparable except anecdotes and he said/she said. The only thing I see that are comparable are match lists and the low tier MD school usually wins. If you think the curriculum of a low tier MD and DO are comparable then it's your call and up to the individual. But declaring it truth without proof is just silly.

Darklabel- you attend one of these low tier MD schools that hallow man refers to. Are hit/miss/garbage (ie, unevenness in quality) rotations a common issue for your school's 3rd/4th year like with DO schools?

Not really, but I got lucky since location can play a part. For instance, NSU has some great rotations thanks to it's location. However, I cannot comment on it since I'm just a first year. The 3rd years are content with it and fourth years are usually doing aways so I don't see them frequently enough to interact in a meaningful way.

 

[user3]

Meh, I didn't intend this to be an MD vs. DO debate. I don't see any proof of how a DO school and a low-tier MD school are comparable except anecdotes and he said/she said. The only thing I see that are comparable are match lists and the low tier MD school usually wins. If you think the curriculum of a low tier MD and DO are comparable then it's your call and up to the individual. But declaring it truth without proof is just silly.

correct. whoever argues "low tier MD is comparable to established DO" has the burden of proof to justify their statement.

 

[razor]

Too many people are hating OMM. While I have no experience with it I would at least think that osteopathic schools are based on this fundamental hands on manipulation which sets them apart from allopathic schools. For those that think it is a waste of time, are you saying this because you could not get into a MD school (and you are thinking of allopathic residency) and henceforth your expectation/usage of OMM are substandard or do you think there is a way to improve OMM? I feel like this needs to be addressed before people start hating on OMM.

Allow me to finish your sentence:
I would at least think that osteopathic schools are based on this fundamental ...
...idea of a consolation prize after an unsuccessful MD interview.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

These posts are getting very irrelevant.

The curricula are different between every single school, so that is a dumb argument.

The only true difference between DO and low MD are match lists, which MD always wins, and our stupid ass OMT/AOA/COMLEX burdens.

 

[NontradCA]

Go to Howard.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Oh okay. So because you haven't met any "impressive, very good clinicians" from PCOM, they don't exist? Noted. I get that you're pro-MD, but that doesn't mean you have to knock an entire school that's been around for hundreds of years. For the record, I've encountered Drexel and Temple grads who speak highly of PCOM. We can continue throwing around "I know this person" stories all day, but I'm not sure because you met a couple PCOM grads, that means that they're obviously all the same. Thanks for the info though.

Nah, he's right, bro. Once you enter a DO school, you get that dirty osteopath ooze on you and not even ACGME residency washing can clean you. Prepare to be a ****ty clinician all your life.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

Nah, he's right, bro. Once you enter a DO school, you get that dirty osteopath ooze on you and not even ACGME residency washing can clean you. Prepare to be a ****ty clinician all your life.

Is this for serious or am I just slow with sarcasm?

 

[costales]

He's serious. The penis-measurement fetishists will stalk you for the rest of your life if you're a DO.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

He's serious. The penis-measurement fetishists will stalk you for the rest of your life if you're a DO.

Well...sh*it. Lol

 

[hallowmann]

Meh, I didn't intend this to be an MD vs. DO debate. I don't see any proof of how a DO school and a low-tier MD school are comparable except anecdotes and he said/she said. The only thing I see that are comparable are match lists and the low tier MD school usually wins. If you think the curriculum of a low tier MD and DO are comparable then it's your call and up to the individual. But declaring it truth without proof is just silly.
...

As I said in my first response in this thread, OP should always pick US MD, unless location and cost are huge issues. Low-tier US MD will give more opportunities for ACGME placement. That said, again my disagreement wasn't with that concept, it was with the idea that this is the case because of the quality of education at DO schools and not simply because of (outdated) DO stigma.

Also, a match list isn't an indicator of quality of education. It's barely possible to truly compare match lists from different schools as a whole, but that's a conversation for another day.

 

[darklabel]

As I said in my first response in this thread, OP should always pick US MD, unless location and cost are huge issues. Low-tier US MD will give more opportunities for ACGME placement. That said, again my disagreement wasn't with that concept, it was with the idea that this is the case because of the quality of education at DO schools and not simply because of (outdated) DO stigma.

Also, a match list isn't an indicator of quality of education. It's barely possible to truly compare match lists from different schools as a whole, but that's a conversation for another day.

Maybe it's all a misunderstanding since I'm not against what you're saying. My comments on "some schools make me scratch my head" was more meant on the rapid expansion of DO schools with large starting classes and the growth of satellite campuses. I'm just sick of the pre-DO crowd **** talking low tier MD schools and saying "Oh my DO school is so much better than that school" without any proof. My comments weren't directed at anyone in specific.

As for match lists, I didn't look at the competitive specialities like most SDNers rather I looked at which had more matches in university programs (especially when it came to IM and Peds for fellowships) and while IM university programs aren't out of reach for DOs, there were a lot more MDs matching into university programs and such. But this was a personal choice when I was comparing schools and not necessarily the best way to go about choosing schools.

 

[hallowmann]

Maybe it's all a misunderstanding since I'm not against what you're saying. My comments on "some schools make me scratch my head" was more meant on the rapid expansion of DO schools with large starting classes and the growth of satellite campuses. I'm just sick of the pre-DO crowd **** talking low tier MD schools and saying "Oh my DO school is so much better than that school" without any proof. My comments weren't directed at anyone in specific.

As for match lists, I didn't look at the competitive specialities like most SDNers rather I looked at which had more matches in university programs (especially when it came to IM and Peds for fellowships) and while IM university programs aren't out of reach for DOs, there were a lot more MDs matching into university programs and such. But this was a personal choice when I was comparing schools and not necessarily the best way to go about choosing schools.

Probably.

The thing about match lists that bothers me is it doesn't take into account a difference in population, # that matched 1st choice/1st choice field, etc. They also tend to be a snapshot of the interests of one class. The only thing that I think they are useful for might be to compare how interests or matching for an individual school has changed over time, or maybe for seeing if grads match into a specific region/program that you are interested in (PDs may like certain grads, so that may be useful if you are looking at a specific program).

Beyond that, there are just too many variables. I can tell at my school that a lot of people really have no interest in academia, and the school really pushes AOA programs, and students buy it hook, line and sinker. I'm sure that skews match data, because board score-wise we do consistently well. Despite that, our AOA:ACGME placement ratio is fairly high (there's also a ton of AOA programs in my state, so I guess there's that too).

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Is this for serious or am I just slow with sarcasm?

It's like super-cereal, but don't worry. We have this ability to summon the spirit of AT Still through Cranial Osteopathy, which will cause any brain tumor to instantly disappear.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

It's like super-cereal, but don't worry. We have this ability to summon the spirit of AT Still through Cranial Osteopathy, which will cause any brain tumor to instantly disappear.

So do you regret going DO?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

So do you regret going DO?

No, I don't regret it. There are many frustrating aspects of my school, the education and some of the quacks associated with us, but I'm still going to get to be a physician and got to stay in my home state and be relatively close to my family.

 

[AlteredScale]

No, I don't regret it. There are many frustrating aspects of my school, the education and some of the quacks associated with us, but I'm still going to get to be a physician and got to stay in my home state and be relatively close to my family.

+1

 

[NurWollen]

Probably.

The thing about match lists that bothers me is it doesn't take into account a difference in population, # that matched 1st choice/1st choice field, etc. They also tend to be a snapshot of the interests of one class. The only thing that I think they are useful for might be to compare how interests or matching for an individual school has changed over time, or maybe for seeing if grads match into a specific region/program that you are interested in (PDs may like certain grads, so that may be useful if you are looking at a specific program).

Beyond that, there are just too many variables. I can tell at my school that a lot of people really have no interest in academia, and the school really pushes AOA programs, and students buy it hook, line and sinker. I'm sure that skews match data, because board score-wise we do consistently well. Despite that, our AOA:ACGME placement ratio is fairly high (there's also a ton of AOA programs in my state, so I guess there's that too).

Out of curiosity, how do they "push" AOA programs? I don't feel like my school pushes AOA programs much, althoug they do (understandibly) talk up the residencies of their own OPTI quite a bit.

 

[hallowmann]

Out of curiosity, how do they "push" AOA programs? I don't feel like my school pushes AOA programs much, althoug they do (understandibly) talk up the residencies of their own OPTI quite a bit.

Its only really when prompted. My curriculum has very few lectures (PBL), so it's not like we are repeatedly lectured about this stuff, but whenever students talk to faculty, they always get a response that is basically like "You're a DO, you should go to an AOA program". They also make claims that AOA programs are the same or better than ACGME programs. It honestly wouldn't be a terrible thing, if it weren't for the fact that there are only half as many AOA spots as there are DO graduates.

On top of that they limit students, by convincing them in the first couple of years that "almost all ACGME programs 'accept' the COMLEX", so there's no point taking the USMLE. Plus they only give us like 10 days off before we're expected to take boards. The only way to get more time is to opt in for a 4 wk long summer program that takes up our only 3rd yr vacation time, and requires us to show up every weekday and log a certain number of hours of study time a day and board questions a day.

To be fair, my state has one of the biggest DO populations, has a ton of AOA programs, many of which are very solid, and most ACGME programs here do "accept" the COMLEX. I put accept in quotes because we have no idea how they're comparing those scores. If they're using the outdated formula from like 10 yrs ago that devalues the equivalent USMLE score by ~10 points, that's not really helpful.

 

[Tirian]

Yes...i think.... (Assuming LCME doesnt accredit carib schools)

This little thing
"US MD>US DO>IMG MD"
Is extremely on point.
All US MD schools are better than all DO schools, which are better than all Carib schools.

You have to find the right fit for yourself.

If you're going to be miserable at an MD school, you won't learn as much as you would if you're at a DO school where you're happy.

Blanket statements like always MD over DO are like saying that private schools are always better than public schools, or same-sex schools are always better than coed schools, or that only mediocre doctors go into primary care.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

You have to find the right fit for yourself.

If you're going to be miserable at an MD school, you won't learn as much as you would if you're at a DO school where you're happy.

Blanket statements like always MD over DO are like saying that private schools are always better than public schools, or same-sex schools are always better than coed schools, or that only mediocre doctors go into primary care.

You have a lot of learning to do.

All i have the energy to say right now is, you are a pre-med. You think that whatever school accepts you is the best school there is.

I am here to tell you that as soon as you step foot in a DO school, there are residency programs that you are no longer welcome in. Thats the truth.

 

[meliora27]

I am here to tell you that as soon as you step foot in a DO school, there are residency programs that you are no longer welcome in. Thats the truth.

If only the AOA/AACOM would issue a statement on this hard fact...

 

[Tirian]

You have a lot of learning to do. /QUOTE]

All i have the energy to say right now is, you are a pre-med. You think that whatever school accepts you is the best school there is.

I am here to tell you that as soon as you step foot in a DO school, there are residency programs that you are no longer welcome in. Thats the truth.

We all have much to learn.

A residency program that wouldn't consider a DO student wouldn't interest me in the first place.

There were once schools & residencies that wouldn't take students of color because "those people aren't [whatever unfounded reason]."

There are plenty that actively practice age discrimination. Those don't interest me, either.

I imagine that there are some residencies who wouldn't consider an applicant from a different region of the U.S. because "those people are all liberal" or "those people are all conservative."

Every decision will create limitations. One should find the right fit for oneself, and accept the consequences, both good and bad, for that decision.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

If only the AOA/AACOM would issue a statement on this hard fact...

I was talking to a dude who is on the AOA board actually a while back, and he said that the ACGME/AOA have tried actually a few times to eliminate the straight up anti-DO stuff that happens around match season

There are two major reasons that they have been / always will be unsuccessful.

1 is, there IS a "ranking" of schools so to speak. PDs are fully allowed to choose applicants based on school prestige. They can choose to not interview anyone from 'xcom', not BECAUSE they are DOs, but because they got enough applicants from cornell/duke/hopkins. They can never say "you must interview DOs" because the PDs can just reply "I would have, I just got better applicants this year".

Secondly.

Us in the DO world are pretty naive to the fact that the ACGME governs a body that is enormous. We are in the hundreds, they are in the tens of thousands. It is almost impossible for them to "police" their PDs and programs in a way that would actually matter.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

We all have much to learn.

A residency program that wouldn't consider a DO student wouldn't interest me in the first place.

There were once schools & residencies that wouldn't take students of color because "those people aren't [whatever unfounded reason]."

There are plenty that actively practice age discrimination. Those don't interest me, either.

I imagine that there are some residencies who wouldn't consider an applicant from a different region of the U.S. because "those people are all liberal" or "those people are all conservative."

Every decision will create limitations. One should find the right fit for oneself, and accept the consequences, both good and bad, for that decision.

You have more to learn than I originally thought.

 

[W19]

You have a lot of learning to do.

All i have the energy to say right now is, you are a pre-med. You think that whatever school accepts you is the best school there is.

I am here to tell you that as soon as you step foot in a DO school, there are residency programs that you are no longer welcome in. Thats the truth.

You certainly don't believe that the low tier MD such as HBCU and PR schools are better than all DO schools... I am not even sure they are in better position than all DO in term of residency....

 

[Tirian]

You have more to learn than I originally thought.

I have so much to learn, I can hardly start.

Where did you learn all the things you know? You're clearly the smartest person here; it would be lovely if you would take time to address the question at hand.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

You certainly don't believe that the low tier MD such as HBCU and PR schools are better than all DO schools... I am not even they are in better position than all DO in term of residency....

I cant speak to the quality of those types of schools, because I don't go to them. The only metric I really pay attention to is residency placement potential.

 

[Tirian]

The only metric I really pay attention to is residency placement potential.

I understand our difference completely. If that were the only metric I was using, our comments would be much more closely aligned.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I understand our difference completely. If that were the only metric I was using, our comments would be much more closely aligned.

I dont mean to sound like an ass here, but our other difference is that you are a pre-med.

I really dont feel like doing this right now, but age does not equal experience here.

 

[Tirian]

I dont mean to sound like an ass here, but our other difference is that you are a pre-med.

I really dont feel like doing this right now, but age does not equal experience here.

I'm certain we have many differences.

As far as this thread, I understand why you said what you said.

 

[W19]

I dont mean to sound like an ass here, but our other difference is that you are a pre-med.

I really dont feel like doing this right now, but age does not equal experience here.