Pediatric Anesthesiology Fellowship Advice

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Stone Cold

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2020
Messages
108
Reaction score
16
For those of you who pursued a fellowship in pediatric anesthesiology,

  • What was your thought process and motivation to go the peds route?
  • CT is relatively in high demand from what I heard (I maybe wrong) but what is the job market like for peds and are there enough PP groups/positions compared to academic/hospital employed positions?
  • How is the pay difference between General vs Peds?
  • With midlevel encroachment, how differently can peds be affected compared to the others and what does the job security look like in the long run?
  • What are the potential differences in lifestyle, call, schedules etc?
  • Are there any other economic/political/social factors to consider when applying for Peds?
Happy to hear your thoughts, advice and any other discussion related to pursuing this route

Members don't see this ad.
 
Bottom line, only do peds if you are interested to do another year of subspecialty and like doing the cases not for any other reason. You are giving up roughly 500k of income to do the extra year. But let’s go through your questions.

- my favorite attendings were peds trained. I thought they were also more competent and personable than the other attendings. This may not be the case where you are training. L Pediatric Surgeons know your value and you work closely with them during these cases (ie if you say stop, they actually stop). Sure difficult personalities still exist but much fewer in peds surgery world. I enjoyed the patient interactions with parents and kids. Nurses are more collaborative as well. I genuinely had a good time doing peds cases. At the time I was making the decision the job market was not like todays and I worried about Crna encroachment so I decided it was better to be subspecialized.

- peds also has high demand but not as high as CT for the simple reason that true pediatric surgery is only done at a few hospital centers typically in major cities. Peds is not profitable for community hospitals and takes a large amount of infrastructure and staff (ie picu, peds floor, peds ER) so most medium to smaller hospitals don’t even bother. A lot of kids are on Medicaid so not big money makers for anyone. The flip side to that is with the peds anesthesia board certification implementer a lot of hospitals that do occasional peds cases require that there be 24 hour peds beeper coverage by a fellowship trained anesthesiologist. This has increased the demand somewhat but not necessarily because hospitals are doing more peds cases. I’ll add that demand will likely increase because supply will falter. For the last few years only about 50% of peds fellowship spots have filled so we are training less peds anesthesiologists. You may start to see an effect in the next decade or so.

- this depends a lot. I would say that you can likely get a stipend over generalists for peds and taking peds beeper call. Depending on the group you may still grind away doing adult call and still hold onto the beeper on occasion. If employed by a peds academic center (where real peds cases are done mostly) you’ll get paid the academic rate which tends to be less than private. I would say… you could potentially make a slight bit more but overall it’s about the same. CT definitely has a higher premium on income.

- nothing is immune from mid level encroachment including peds and CT and pain. Your training does not determine this, hospital admins and politicians determine this. You will have rural CRNAs taking care of small neonates as well if there is a neonatal emergency and they can’t transfer. City peds hospitals will always be lead by anesthesiologists but most big children’s hospitals do the care time model with residents/fellows/CRNAs. Personally I think this is moot in todays market because even if all CRNAs were independent today there still wouldn’t be enough anesthesia providers relative to growing demand for anesthesia services. A lot of people would disagree with me on that though.

- lifestyle again depends on the group/job. Most peds call is home call unless you work at a peds hospital, so if you take 100% peds call it may get you out of taking overnight call but it depends on the job. Most private groups will not let you get out of overnight adult call but give you an extra stipend for holding the peds pager and perhaps give you less call. This varies so much it’s difficult to make a generalization. If you work outside of a children’s hospital you will likely be taking care of adults ( mostly adults) and taking care of the occassional kid that gets scheduled.

- if you want to do 100% peds you likely need to stay at a pediatric teaching hospital. So you need to be ok with being in academics and all of the upsides and downsides that go along with that. If you want to go private you should be prepared to have a hybrid practice as 100% private practice peds is not common. The one political thing I’ll say is that for better or worse America is run by really really really old people, so older people’s health care is better funded than pediatric health care. Children’s hospitals thrive on donations but a peds hernia repair is paid a fraction of a hip replacement. This does have some affect on your salary as well as contribute to the lack of hospitals that take care of children outside of major cities. This can limit your options if you want to fully utilize a peds fellowship.

In summary only do the fellowship if you enjoy the work and not for any other reason.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Most general jobs won't hire a FT peds fellow versus a general or regional fellow unless they have a reasonable amount of peds cases. They would be worried that you would leave once a peds job opened somewhere else.

So it can limit your potential practice locations.
 
I've been out of training for about five years now, and am transitioning from academic to private practice within the year, so will put in my two cents.

Like dizzy21 says above, the most important point factor about this decision should not be about the money. You should ask yourself whether you enjoy taking care of pediatric patients enough to spend an extra year in training, while *possibly* making less than a classmate that goes straight out into practice, or completes another fellowship like cardiac.

  • What was your thought process and motivation to go the peds route? - I was actually considering pursuing an adult cardiothoracic fellowship, but changed my mind after the first month of my CA-2 pediatric rotation. I enjoyed being around perioperative staff, and even surgeons, that were overall just more pleasant to be around. Work was both rewarding and FUN (most of the time)

  • CT is relatively in high demand from what I heard (I maybe wrong) but what is the job market like for peds and are there enough PP groups/positions compared to academic/hospital employed positions? - There are plenty of academic pediatric positions available now. In my limited geographic search for pediatric-trained folks, those willing to be in a mixed adult-peds job have a lot of options, it will just depend on your ideal ratio that will determine whether a particular job is a fit for you.

  • How is the pay difference between General vs Peds? - In an academic setting, I would say the difference is not that large, and it is difficult to quantify because you will likely be taking more pager call from home, while also not doing 4 simultaneous endo rooms in adult GI all the time. Being fellowship trained will give you a variable bump up in salary (mine is only $10K more than a generalist, so that shouldn't be a factor in your decision). These kinds of things are really hard to compare and quantify. In my upcoming job (50-50 adult-peds), peds trained folks' make over $50K more than someone without fellowship training, including regional, but less than adult cardiac.

  • With midlevel encroachment, how differently can peds be affected compared to the others and what does the job security look like in the long run? - Really hard to say here and everyone will tell you something different. I'd like to think that at the VERY worst, working in a large, academic Children's hospital, the role of a physician pediatric anesthesiologist is not something that administrators/surgeons will be able to dilute to materially impact your career in a life changing way, at least for the next 10 years.

  • What are the potential differences in lifestyle, call, schedules etc? Pediatric call will most likely be from home, so it will depend on the acuity/type of cases of whichever facility you work in. Depending on the department/group/practice, you will participate in the adult call pool, and will either do the same number of calls, or fewer because of your peds responsibilities. Do consider than your division will likely be smaller than the adult division, so the number of holiday calls you will be taking will probably be more frequent.

  • Are there any other economic/political/social factors to consider when applying for Peds? Consider the region of the country you want to work in, down to the region or state, and research what that healthcare landscape is like. (Who does the most peds, who are their competitors, etc?) I personally did not really consider political or other social factors because at the end of the day, I just like taking care of pediatric patients more. I look at the late night cases of some of my cardiac colleagues and am sometimes just horrified, and this is coming from someone that considered a cardiac fellowship.
Good luck and happy to answer via DM.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top