Pediatrics Anesthesia and CCM?

[FattySlug]

I am an MS3 who is really interested in the anesthesia and ccm route. Everyday I come in to read this forum and every time I die a little inside hearing about the gloom and doom predictions of the field but I am going to do it anyway. I love the ICU and honestly can't see myself stomach 3 years of IM or even 1 of gen surg so here it is. I am starting anesthesia elective soon but I want to hear from other sources as well so please help me with my questions:

1) CCM is unlikely to be taken over by mid-level but what about pediatrics anesthesia? I am thinking about even doing 2 fellowship, ccm and pediatrics, so I can practice half and half. Would that help my job prospect if I do both of those fellowships?

2) After asking around a little bit it seems like that ccm makes less money than OR work. Does that mean to practice ccm you basically have to take a pay cut to do it? I go to one of the most expensive school in the country and will have about $300k in loan so it is hard not to think about salary. I know salary depends on where you work etc. But what is the reasonable range for new grads who does both OR and ccm? I know the figures on aamc won't apply to me but that is all I have seen so far.

Thank you very much.

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[anbuitachi]

pretty sure more fellowships help w/ jobs.

and it's hard to predict your starting salary cause thats in 8 years... by then it'll probably be like 150k

 

[Triple AAA]

I appreciate your enthusiasm, OP. I thought similarly when I was a young, vibrant medical student. Post this again after being beaten down by 4 years of residency, bankruptcy, and the ravages of old age. More fellowships = less time spent in practice, earning real money.

With that said, do what you love doing. You're right, there's no way in hell a nurse will ever practice CCM unsupervised. For liability reasons, I doubt they will ever be able to practice Peds unsupervised either (except MAYBE very basic bread and butter peds). I think either fellowship would help you be more marketable, so I'm not sure if doing both is necessary. But again, if it's what you love, then go for it.

Starting salaries are harder and harder to predict. Too many variables.

 

[deleted171991]

I am an MS3 who is really interested in the anesthesia and ccm route. Everyday I come in to read this forum and every time I die a little inside hearing about the gloom and doom predictions of the field but I am going to do it anyway. I love the ICU and honestly can't see myself stomach 3 years of IM or even 1 of gen surg so here it is. I am starting anesthesia elective soon but I want to hear from other sources as well so please help me with my questions:

1) CCM is unlikely to be taken over by mid-level but what about pediatrics anesthesia? I am thinking about even doing 2 fellowship, ccm and pediatrics, so I can practice half and half. Would that help my job prospect if I do both of those fellowships?

2) After asking around a little bit it seems like that ccm makes less money than OR work. Does that mean to practice ccm you basically have to take a pay cut to do it? I go to one of the most expensive school in the country and will have about $300k in loan so it is hard not to think about salary. I know salary depends on where you work etc. But what is the reasonable range for new grads who does both OR and ccm? I know the figures on aamc won't apply to me but that is all I have seen so far.

Thank you very much.

To answer your questions:
1. Probably not. To me, the combination seems like a waste of time; choose either, but not both. Too many fellowships and you sound like a singer-dancer who doesn't excel at either.

Also, don't expect any (sub)specialty to not be taken over by midlevels, in the future, up to a certain level of complexity (especially healthy peds, which is the fun part, in your case).

2. CCM makes less money for now (it still makes 300+ full-time, I would expect the same if CCM+anesthesia). In less than 5 years it will be the other way round. If you are 100% sure you want CCM, anesthesia is a good route to it. I wouldn't worry that much about CCM salaries, but about a second fellowship which would make me lose another 250 in salary.

But who knows, by the time you get out of the trainee slave camp, the difference might not be that big anymore.

 

[urge]

I am an MS3 who is really interested in the anesthesia and ccm route. Everyday I come in to read this forum and every time I die a little inside hearing about the gloom and doom predictions of the field but I am going to do it anyway. I love the ICU and honestly can't see myself stomach 3 years of IM or even 1 of gen surg so here it is. I am starting anesthesia elective soon but I want to hear from other sources as well so please help me with my questions:

1) CCM is unlikely to be taken over by mid-level but what about pediatrics anesthesia? I am thinking about even doing 2 fellowship, ccm and pediatrics, so I can practice half and half. Would that help my job prospect if I do both of those fellowships?

2) After asking around a little bit it seems like that ccm makes less money than OR work. Does that mean to practice ccm you basically have to take a pay cut to do it? I go to one of the most expensive school in the country and will have about $300k in loan so it is hard not to think about salary. I know salary depends on where you work etc. But what is the reasonable range for new grads who does both OR and ccm? I know the figures on aamc won't apply to me but that is all I have seen so far.

Thank you very much.

Peds CCM means very large academic center. There are some out there. Salary will most likely be marginally better than what a general anesthesiologist at the same institution.

 

[IlDestriero]

I work less and get paid significantly more than my fellow faculty at the adult hospital. We are financially separate, and profitable.
I'm not sure why you would want to do adult CCM and Peds anesthesia. If you want Peds CCM, to work in a PICU you need to do a peds residency and a peds CC fellowship (3 years), in addition to anesthesia and peds anesthesia. Few take that long path now.

 

[FattySlug]

I work less and get paid significantly more than my fellow faculty at the adult hospital. We are financially separate, and profitable.
I'm not sure why you would want to do adult CCM and Peds anesthesia. If you want Peds CCM, to work in a PICU you need to do a peds residency and a peds CC fellowship (3 years), in addition to anesthesia and peds anesthesia. Few take that long path now.

The reason why I am thinking that way is because I want to protect myself from the mid-level providers so I thought those 2 fellowships would help. I was not planning on working in the PICU. I was thinking doing part CCM adults and part peds anesthesia. However as you guys point out it does not make sense to do both. Are you doing peds anesthesia?

 

[urge]

The reason why I am thinking that way is because I want to protect myself from the mid-level providers so I thought those 2 fellowships would help. I was not planning on working in the PICU. I was thinking doing part CCM adults and part peds anesthesia. However as you guys point out it does not make sense to do both. Are you doing peds anesthesia?

I thought you wanted to do Peds and Ped CCM. Adult CCM and Peds makes no sense.

I think you are worrying too much about the mid levels. Pick one and be good at it. Do what you are most happy doing. You will be doing it for 40 years most likely.

 

[michigangirl]

It's hard enough doing peds CCM and peds anesthesia-- adult CCM and peds anesthesia is a no go in my book (and others as you see).