MD Perhaps the most unusual post on this site

[Atlas1]

I am throwing my questions out to the universe in the hope that I will receive a thoughtful and helpful response. Before I begin, I am completely serious, and I have given long and serious contemplation to becoming a physician.

Please read what I have written below, and le let me know what you think I should do to maximize my chances of attending medical school, and achieving my goals.

Age 49, little or no science/math background. Although one of my minors was in Psychology (all A's in PSYCH).

My first undergraduate degree was a BS with an overall 3.15 GPA, and a 3.85 GPA on the last 160 hours. The reason why my overall GPA was so low was my very poor academic performance when I first attended college, many years earlier. Over the last 4 years (160 hours) I earned almost all A's and rarely earned B's.

I want to pursue medicine, and I have particular interest in research/academic medicine. For some, the goal of becoming a physician may be wealth or social prestige. My goal would be to pursue a much larger goal, one thay has stirred in me for many years now. It has long been my belief that the elimination of death as an "inevitably" is within our grasp if only we posses the will to do the hard work required. There are others, such as, Dr. Cynthia Kenyon who share my belief and comment to this goal. Google has even budgeted billions of dollars to fund similar research. To achieve my goal I know it will require me to graduate from a top medical school program.

I would love to attend a Strong post-baccalaureate program, like the one offered by Goucher. Goucher has an excellent track record of thier graduates being accepted into top medical schools. However, I am concerned that I will not be admitted into the post-baccalaureate program at Goucher because of my low GPA, and because I did not earn my degree at an ivy league university.

Is there any hope of my being admitted to a top medical school program? For that matter a reputable medical program?

Is there any realistic hope of my being admitted to Goucher or any other respected post-baccalaureate program?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I look forward to reading your resposses. If you have any questions, just ask and I will do my best to answer.

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[gyngyn]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/nontraditional-students.110/

You will find more help in the non-trad forum.
Any post bac will suffice (I've never actually heard of Goucher!) but your current gpa will need a lot of work to get into MD territory.
You can go DO with an MCAT over 500 and re-taking any low science courses. With grade replacement it could be done in a year or so. It sounds like you may need at least that long to cover the content for the MCAT anyway.

You can become an academician from any medical school.
Your commitment to the elimination of death is probably not the best way to frame your rationale for a career in medicine, though. Is it possible that a PhD might suit your goals better? The woman you mentioned is not a physician, but a PhD. Most of the four years spent in a medical education are devoted to an understanding of the science and clinical skills necessary to begin residency. It will have nothing to do with the topic that interests you. Likewise, residency will have nothing to do with the elimination of death. Thus, you would be devoting much of the rest of your life to a goal that is poorly aligned with your stated purpose.

 

[pulmoblast]

The best thing I do in my day is actually let someone die peacefully...

 

[Atlas1]

Gyngyn, thank you for your kind response, and you are correct Dr. Kenyon is indeed a PhD, and I believe still associated with UCSF. As the science progress, I believe that MD's will be needed, especially if the research is expected to move into human studies. Also, having physicians on board will add legitimacy to the research and help to bring the larger medical community onboard.

I know that what I propose may strike some as a bit unusual and provoke song emotions in others. I am OK with others feeling threatened, and reacting negatively, that is what you get when you challenge long standing cultural assumptions. Another researcher/entrepreneur for whom I hold a great deal of respect is Elizabeth Holmes. Her company Theranos is revolutionizing medical testing, and making the test far less expensive. Thus will help bring down cost, and expand access.

 

[jaxon]

I want to pursue medicine, and I have particular interest in research/academic medicine. For some, the goal of becoming a physician may be wealth or social prestige. My goal would be to pursue a much larger goal, one thay has stirred in me for many years now. It has long been my belief that the elimination of death as an "inevitably" is within our grasp if only we posses the will to do the hard work required. There are others, such as, Dr. Cynthia Kenyon who share my belief and comment to this goal. Google has even budgeted billions of dollars to fund similar research. To achieve my goal I know it will require me to graduate from a top medical school program.

Call me crazy but I don't think our species will be able to cheat death anytime soon. This sounds rather Darth Sidiousy. Kidding aside, I'm not sure I understand your aspirations; I'm not seeing any reason for the clinical aspect of medicine to be in your crosshairs as you want to focus on research... so maybe PhD?

Also, do you have any experience in science? How do you know you will like any of it? I only ask because I know plenty of people with fascinations of biology or astrophysics (ya know, Cosmos/TedTalk science) etc etc, but as soon as they have to take a class in biochemistry or calculus it's a completely different story. Perhaps it would be prudent to take a few individual classes to test the waters before dropping $60K on a postbacc like Goucher (even though I've heard Goucher is a great program). I'm all for encouraging people to go all in, just so long as they know what they're getting into.

I know that what I propose may strike some as a bit unusual and provoke song emotions in others. I am OK with others feeling threatened, and reacting negatively, that is what you get when you challenge long standing cultural assumptions.

Don't know what this is referring to.

 

[janeteyre]

Someone with an interest in a particular field of biology should consider doing a Ph.D. in that field. There will be very little opportunity to study aging at a molecular level for an M.D. You should consider taking a few classes in genetics/biochemistry to get a better idea on how life operates mechanistically, and look into laboratories that studying molecular aging if your goal is to do research in this field.

 

[Goro]

Get the pre-reqs out of the way and DO is definitely possible.

As someone who is at an age where I am more and more aware of my own mortality, I appreciate the starry-eyed interest in eliminating death, but it's more important that you be practical.

Post-bac programs are a dime-a dozen, and you can do one DIY as well. Just pick some and go for it.

Is there any hope of my being admitted to a top medical school program? For that matter a reputable medical program?

 

[skrolls]

Well a couple of years ago the medical school at my university accepted a 51 year old so it's extremely difficult, but if you can show them that you're the right person it's entirely possible. You've really got to be sure it's the path you want to take, though. At your age you'd really be risking your security with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and by the time you'd be done with a residency you'd be around 60. That doesn't leave you much time to practice. In my opinion an MS or PhD might be a better choice for what you want to do.

 

[Atlas1]

One possibility I an considering is to pursue an MD/phd program at a school where I might have an opportunity to do research with research in my particular area of interest. MD/phd programs are usually highly competive, even more than some specialties. This is why I was asking about Goucher and other respected, well established post-baccalaureate programs.
To my knowledge an MD/phd program generally requires 6 years to complete. After completing the MD/phd program you can then undertake a 1 year internship (psy1) and become eligible to sit for the state medical license exam. Also, I have been told that there is something known as a "short track" that operates as a shortened residency program just for MD/phd graduates. I would enjoy hearing more about the MD/phd option, and what I can do to make myself competive for these programs, given my lower (3.15) GPA from my 1st degree. I am not able to actually raise my GPA since, as I understand it, medical schools look most closely at the GPA from ones 1st awarded baccalaureate. Therefore, I am hoping a 1st rate post-baccalaureate program with very high grades (thus high science GPA) and a very strong MCAT score might be helpful. What should I do?

 

[Petrichor1]

hold up, doesn't amcas count grades within 10 years of your most recent application? So if you are 49, I'm guessing your first degree was a long time ago and so would medical schools even consider that gpa and transcript? Like technically, you can begin anew with a fresh new gpa at the postbacca and that will be your cumulative.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Pretty sure this is false information.

Only example of this I can think of actually occurring is in Texas with the grade forgiveness policy where after 10 years you get a completely clean slate. However, this also means all your A's are erased as well so you are truly starting from scratch. I think AMCAS will still force you to send old transcripts but if I'm not mistaken(and I easily could be) TMCAS system accepts grade forgiveness(which is what's going to matter to Texans).

 

[gyngyn]

One possibility I an considering is to pursue an MD/phd program at a school where I might have an opportunity to do research with research in my particular area of interest. MD/phd programs are usually highly competive, even more than some specialties. This is why I was asking about Goucher and other respected, well established post-baccalaureate programs.
To my knowledge an MD/phd program generally requires 6 years to complete. After completing the MD/phd program you can then undertake a 1 year internship (psy1) and become eligible to sit for the state medical license exam. Also, I have been told that there is something known as a "short track" that operates as a shortened residency program just for MD/phd graduates. I would enjoy hearing more about the MD/phd option, and what I can do to make myself competive for these programs, given my lower (3.15) GPA from my 1st degree. I am not able to actually raise my GPA since, as I understand it, medical schools look most closely at the GPA from ones 1st awarded baccalaureate. Therefore, I am hoping a 1st rate post-baccalaureate program with very high grades (thus high science GPA) and a very strong MCAT score might be helpful. What should I do?

Yes, MSTP positions are even more competitive than MD (with higher gpa's and MCAT's).
They expect a significant body of work at the time of an application, as well.
The average time to completion varies but the mean at our place is 8.5 to 9.5 years for the dual degree. Then you start residency...

If you do not wish to pursue a straight PhD, your best bet is a career changer post bac.
Where's @gonnif when you need him!

 

[Petrichor1]

Pretty sure this is false information.

ok good to know. Some adcom mentioned it a couple years ago and I keep wondering about where it is in writing, guess it's not.

 

[goldy490]

One possibility I an considering is to pursue an MD/phd program at a school where I might have an opportunity to do research with research in my particular area of interest. MD/phd programs are usually highly competive, even more than some specialties. This is why I was asking about Goucher and other respected, well established post-baccalaureate programs.
To my knowledge an MD/phd program generally requires 6 years to complete. After completing the MD/phd program you can then undertake a 1 year internship (psy1) and become eligible to sit for the state medical license exam. Also, I have been told that there is something known as a "short track" that operates as a shortened residency program just for MD/phd graduates. I would enjoy hearing more about the MD/phd option, and what I can do to make myself competive for these programs, given my lower (3.15) GPA from my 1st degree. I am not able to actually raise my GPA since, as I understand it, medical schools look most closely at the GPA from ones 1st awarded baccalaureate. Therefore, I am hoping a 1st rate post-baccalaureate program with very high grades (thus high science GPA) and a very strong MCAT score might be helpful. What should I do?

I'm not sure if the career path you are describing here exists. You don't just "take the boards" after intern year and hang your hat up.

It sounds like your overall goal is to go get an MD degree to hang on your wall in order to then somehow magically join up with the team that is trying to eliminate death from the planet. EVEN IF you actually somehow did everything you describe above (get your license after intern year, do some sort of accelerated residency), you can't just waltz over to UCSF, find the project you want to work on, and start eliminating death from the world. You need to build a career that would allow you to do that. MD is not like some magical check box you have to fill and once you do you're qualified to go work on this project.

Also, just think about this: 49 years old + 2 years post bacc + 8 years MD/PhD + 3 years residency (which is the bare minimum length of a residency) = 62 years old when you have even become a doctor!

 

[Atlas1]

goldy490, thank you for posting a response to my question. It is my understanding that one can be licensed to practice medicine in the United States after completing medical school, a one year internship (PGY 1), and succesful completion of step 3 of the USMLE. Essentially, at that point he/she is able to practice medicine as a General Practitioner (GP). This the route taken by many newly graduated medical school students, and allows for them to "moonlight" while doing residency. However, the vast majority of these individuals go on to complete a full residency program, and become board certified in his/her specialty. I have been informed that earning a decent living without board certification would be "difficult" at best. One MD openly stated that he could foresee difficulty in such an individual being "credentialed" at many major hospitals. According to him, most GPs are now board certified.

 

[Doug Underhill]

For the near future, everything in your area of interest will be benchtop research-based. If you want to get heavily involved in that field (and it's a compelling field), you will be a researcher, not a clinician. You could work for Dr. Kenyon or a similar PI with a MD, but it would be a waste to pay $150k for a degree when you could receive $150k to get a Ph.D at UCSF instead. Ph.D programs in the biomedical sciences contain stipends and free tuition in exchange for you working as a researcher.