Pharmacist Salary Thread

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Dreams vs reality...

When I graduated 3+ years ago...I had 4 retail and 2 hospital offers... I was 6/6 of positions I applied for. Different world we live in now.
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KARM12 said:
Dreams vs reality...

When I graduated 3+ years ago...I had 4 retail and 2 hospital offers... I was 6/6 of positions I applied for. Different world we live in now.
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That makes me feel like pharmacists are always rubbing it in our faces and continuously reminding us about how much worse it is now. I can't seem to stop hearing it at school too.

Sometimes I wonder if there's a hidden message somewhere that says people need to quit. :(
 
crazybob said:
That makes me feel like pharmacists are always rubbing it in our faces and continuously reminding us about how much worse it is now. I can't seem to stop hearing it at school too.

Sometimes I wonder if there's a hidden message somewhere that says people need to quit. :(
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I don't think people are trying to rub it in. I think it is crazy how much the market changed in just a few years and it effects all pharmacists, not just new grads. There are plenty of pre-pharms that still think they are going to get the 120K + 20K sign on bonus for just breathing and having a license. I don't know where the market will be in the next 5 yrs, but my guess is that it isn't going to pick up drastically. That is why it is important to put yourself in the best position possible while you are in school.
 
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KARM12 said:
I don't think people are trying to rub it in. I think it is crazy how much the market changed in just a few years and it effects all pharmacists, not just new grads. There are plenty of pre-pharms that still think they are going to get the 120K + 20K sign on bonus for just breathing and having a license. I don't know where the market will be in the next 5 yrs, but my guess is that it isn't going to pick up drastically. That is why it is important to put yourself in the best position possible while you are in school.
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Reading this stuff makes me feel like I should drop out and go work for minimum wage at the mall for the rest of my life. I actually think I'd really enjoy being a pharmacist and would probably be pretty good at it, but the whole idea of having a lot of debt with few job prospects is unnerving. :(
 
Class of 2011 here, and I got a pretty good job offer. I interviewed really well and they see me as management material. My application was otherwise unremarkable, and I didn't work as an intern through school and wasn't the president of any club or anything like that. So it's still possible to get a job.

On the other hand, I sent out a ton of apps and only got two interviews and one offer, and I have to relocate to a small town that some would consider undesirable (not me since I like outdoors stuff). So I don't discount the gloom and doom either.
 
SoylentGreen said:
Class of 2011 here, and I got a pretty good job offer. I interviewed really well and they see me as management material. My application was otherwise unremarkable, and I didn't work as an intern through school and wasn't the president of any club or anything like that. So it's still possible to get a job.

On the other hand, I sent out a ton of apps and only got two interviews and one offer, and I have to relocate to a small town that some would consider undesirable (not me since I like outdoors stuff). So I don't discount the gloom and doom either.
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If I were in your position, I'd just be happy about it. There are plenty of pros about living in a small town.

You may not have a movie theater on every corner or a fancy night club on every street, but it's somewhere to live, right?
 
crazybob said:
If I were in your position, I'd just be happy about it. There are plenty of pros about living in a small town.

You may not have a movie theater on every corner or a fancy night club on every street, but it's somewhere to live, right?
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I am happy about it. I'm just saying, don't every pre-pharmer and pharm student read this and think that you will automatically get the same offer I did.
 
SoylentGreen said:
I am happy about it. I'm just saying, don't every pre-pharmer and pharm student read this and think that you will automatically get the same offer I did.
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I don't think anyone thinks that with hundreds of threads and thousands of posts about the market.
 
KARM12 said:
Dreams vs reality...

When I graduated 3+ years ago...I had 4 retail and 2 hospital offers... I was 6/6 of positions I applied for. Different world we live in now.
Click to expand...

I am shocked. I really am. I cannot believe how fast things have changed. They haven't changed just a little bit either. I graduated in 2004 and we felt like rock stars. You could get a job anywhere with anyone and get a fat sign on bonus. Didn't like where you worked or what they wanted you to do? Tell them to f-off and go across the street. Now I miss my flavor rx goal of 25% and I seriously feel like I am going to get fired.

I have been participating in these gloom and doom threads sort of tongue in cheek. Yeah things are tightening up but it can't be that bad right? The reality of all this really came down hard on me yesterday. I am still having a hard time processing it in my mind. It's like I have been transported to some crazy pharmacy alternate universe.
 
A starting staff pharmacist with any retail in MN will get about $120K/year or roughly $57-60/hour.
 
MountainPharmD said:
I am shocked. I really am. I cannot believe how fast things have changed. They haven't changed just a little bit either. I graduated in 2004 and we felt like rock stars. You could get a job anywhere with anyone and get a fat sign on bonus. Didn't like where you worked or what they wanted you to do? Tell them to f-off and go across the street. Now I miss my flavor rx goal of 25% and I seriously feel like I am going to get fired.

I have been participating in these gloom and doom threads sort of tongue in cheek. Yeah things are tightening up but it can't be that bad right? The reality of all this really came down hard on me yesterday. I am still having a hard time processing it in my mind. It's like I have been transported to some crazy pharmacy alternate universe.
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Very true. It was this way when I graduated, but like you said, things have changed quickly. I think current students who say it isn't that bad don't quite understand b/c they weren't in our shoes when we were able to bank and go where ever. If I were pre-pharm right now I would reconsider...just my opinion, sorry!
 
crazybob said:
I don't think anyone thinks that with hundreds of threads and thousands of posts about the market.
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There are definitely some incurable optimists out there who might look at my good fortune and think "that's how it really is, these other guys are a bunch of whining losers." To the best of my knowledge, pharmacy schools are still filling every seat with people who think spending years and going into heavy debt for a pharm d is a good idea, and turning away excess applicants.
 
SoylentGreen said:
I am happy about it. I'm just saying, don't every pre-pharmer and pharm student read this and think that you will automatically get the same offer I did.
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I think this is good information to students and pre-pharm. You got a job, but you had to work hard to find it and be willing to move for it. So yes, there are jobs, but you have to be flexible and willing to apply to a lot of places. It wasn't easy, but you succeeded in doing so.

Congrats on your graduation and welcome to the profession!
 
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SoylentGreen said:
There are definitely some incurable optimists out there who might look at my good fortune and think "that's how it really is, these other guys are a bunch of whining losers." To the best of my knowledge, pharmacy schools are still filling every seat with people who think spending years and going into heavy debt for a pharm d is a good idea, and turning away excess applicants.
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And you think that pharmacists and pharmacy students they know aren't talking to them about this?

So what if they're optimists? Let them make their own decisions.
 
crazybob said:
And you think that pharmacists and pharmacy students they know aren't talking to them about this?
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I'm also getting tired of the "pharmacy students and pre-pharms are stupid and we must warn them" mentality. We aren't *****s. Anyone who can read the threads on these forums knows whats up in terms of differing viewpoints. For pete's sake, the doom and gloom gets dropped into every thread, including ones that aren't even about jobs or salary.

I don't know about you, but I haven't seen ANYONE posting on here who seems to think high salaries and bonuses and BMWs await every grad. Not in the pharmacy forum and not in the pre-pharmacy forum either. If there is someone who thinks that, and they hold that notion in the face of overwhelming evidence that the job market is changing, then it's their funeral.

The overwhelming pessimism and the paternalistic "Let's educate the kiddies" attitudes are frustrating. Why is it hard to accept that many of us, while understanding the changing market conditions, still LIKE and WANT to go into pharmacy?
 
All4MyDaughter said:
The overwhelming pessimism and the paternalistic "Let's educate the kiddies" attitudes are frustrating. Why is it hard to accept that many of us, while understanding the changing market conditions, still LIKE and WANT to go into pharmacy?
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I thought you weren't a student anymore...you are one of us now! :rolleyes:

There are still plenty of those on the pre-pharm forum that think there is still a surplus because of the baby-boomers, etc. I think most current students have a realistic view. It is good that new grads are posting how they are doing in the job market...they are the ones that truly see what it is like for a new grad. Looks like a lot have found jobs and some not so much.

When is the baby coming?

And congrats on graduation!
 
crazybob said:
And you think that pharmacists and pharmacy students they know aren't talking to them about this?

So what if they're optimists? Let them make their own decisions.
Click to expand...

Not all pre-pharmers have pharmacy students and pharmacists as friends/contacts. I didn't.

All I did was give a complete, if brief, account of my job hunt, the good side and bad.
 
SoylentGreen said:
Not all pre-pharmers have pharmacy students and pharmacists as friends/contacts. I didn't.

All I did was give a complete, if brief, account of my job hunt, the good side and bad.
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You didn't go on to write an essay like some people do, so that's good.

But we are aware of current market situations because of all of the posts on SDN. We should try to provide links to those posts instead of saying the same things over and over and over again. What do you think about that?
 
KARM12 said:
I thought you weren't a student anymore...you are one of us now! :rolleyes:

There are still plenty of those on the pre-pharm forum that think there is still a surplus because of the baby-boomers, etc. I think most current students have a realistic view. It is good that new grads are posting how they are doing in the job market...they are the ones that truly see what it is like for a new grad. Looks like a lot have found jobs and some not so much.

When is the baby coming?

And congrats on graduation!
Click to expand...

I'm not a student, but haven't graduated yet. I'm some sort of hybrid! :smuggrin:

Baby next week!

Thanks! :D
 
Starting salary for a staff rph in nyc is about $100k a year. I'm starting to think the northeast area has the lowest salaries in the entire country. :(
 
Here in Socal the going rate for a CVS pharmacist is 62/hr and 55/hr for Safeway.

I don't think they're hiring in my county, though.
 
ravuu said:
Starting salary for a staff rph in nyc is about $100k a year. I'm starting to think the northeast area has the lowest salaries in the entire country. :(
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Higher salary doesn't always mean it's better.

In some places, I hear about insane salaries, but I can understand why given the company name and the neighborhood.

But from the way some people talk about how northeast is such a good place to live and they think that everywhere else isn't that great, wouldn't you be happy living there?

I've seen in a previous thread where there were enough job postings in Texas, but people refused to move there because they thought that part of the country wasn't good enough for them.
 
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I am a new grad, and I just wanted to share some actual salaries I came across during my various interviews. I live in West TN.

Well known pediatric hospital staff position 49/hr with 10K sign on bonus
CVS 56.25/hr
small local hospital staff position 48/hr
larger hospital staff position (part of a system of hospitals in this area) 47/hr
Target 56.75/hr
Walgreens 58.50/hr
 
if the market's so saturated, how much salaries haven't gone down? or have they?
 
Zoupa said:
if the market's so saturated, how much salaries haven't gone down? or have they?
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I moved from a job in BFE (rural Western PA) to the most saturated market in the country (Philly) and I'm getting paid damn near $20 more an hour. Granted, that's staff hospital to overnight retail...but still...
 
The 2011 Mercer Salary Report was just released...shows stagnation nationwide for all pharmacist positions (PIC, clinical, staff) and a slight decrease for pharmacy technicians. I don't have access to the full report ($$$$), but here's a link if anyone is interested:

http://www.pharmacyonesource.com/members/surveys/salary/spring2011/
 
I am curious...

To all you seasoned pharmacists and n00bs:

What do you do about negotiating salary? For example, if you had a ton of hospital experience during pharm school or worked with the same company throughout pharmacy school, would you ask for more than their initial offer? I know some places pay you more based on tenure, experience, etc.
 
rxlea said:
I am curious...

To all you seasoned pharmacists and n00bs:

What do you do about negotiating salary? For example, if you had a ton of hospital experience during pharm school or worked with the same company throughout pharmacy school, would you ask for more than their initial offer? I know some places pay you more based on tenure, experience, etc.
Click to expand...

You can ask, but I doubt you will get anywhere.....
 
Salaries will never go down. Its basic economics here ppl. The only thing that might go down though is raises and job offers.
 
THE MTL said:
Salaries will never go down. Its basic economics here ppl. The only thing that might go down though is raises and job offers.
Click to expand...

Please post here AFTER you take a basic economics class and learn something about the first principle of economics.
 
rxlea said:
I am curious...

To all you seasoned pharmacists and n00bs:

What do you do about negotiating salary? For example, if you had a ton of hospital experience during pharm school or worked with the same company throughout pharmacy school, would you ask for more than their initial offer? I know some places pay you more based on tenure, experience, etc.
Click to expand...

Places pay for experience but we're talking PHARMACIST experience, not tech or intern experience. I had that very discussion with my director before I decided to do a residency. That was a hospital setting, but the same seems to hold true for retail. My classmates, many of whom have years with their respective chains, are getting the normal starting salary. Many do have accumulated leave time based on years of service, and so they are starting out higher than the norm there. But no boost in salary.

Old Timer said:
You can ask, but I doubt you will get anywhere.....
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Pretty much. And why would they pay more? There are lots of new grads willing to work for typical starting salary right now.
 
crazybob said:
What about inflation?
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I'm speaking specifically as to the numerical value of the salary. Ofcourse as every days passes, that same money is able to buy less, but I am speaking more so to the indication that he said that salaries will never go down. They can go down and not only in inflation (which is guaranteed) but also the salary itself. If there are 3 people to do the job and one is willing to do the same work for 15% cheaper, then he will get the job. A lower paying job is much better than no job. So, companies can get away with paying pharmacists a lower numerical value for a salary than say in 2006.

Then again, about 60-70% of graduating pharmacists have jobs lined up prior to graduation. That is still quite high. Not as good as it was 5-10 years ago, but certainly well above average in relation to other professions/degrees.
 
PharmBound2011 said:
I'm speaking specifically as to the numerical value of the salary. Ofcourse as every days passes, that same money is able to buy less, but I am speaking more so to the indication that he said that salaries will never go down. They can go down and not only in inflation (which is guaranteed) but also the salary itself. If there are 3 people to do the job and one is willing to do the same work for 15% cheaper, then he will get the job. A lower paying job is much better than no job. So, companies can get away with paying pharmacists a lower numerical value for a salary than say in 2006.

Then again, about 60-70% of graduating pharmacists have jobs lined up prior to graduation. That is still quite high. Not as good as it was 5-10 years ago, but certainly well above average in relation to other professions/degrees.
Click to expand...

How many jobs have you gotten by underbidding your salary? I am not familiar with that tactic at all. Companies look at many things when deciding on a fair wage - I have never seen anyone get paid less than the bottom of the pay grade nor have I ever seen any applicant out-compete other applicants by "bidding" less on starting salary.
 
owlegrad said:
I have never seen anyone get paid less than the bottom of the pay grade nor have I ever seen any applicant out-compete other applicants by "bidding" less on starting salary.
Click to expand...

Look at the H1B visa category in the tech industry.
 
I have had a few job offers already and I am just starting P1 this fall. That's definitely a good feeling, but the issue is I am attending UC-Denver, and the offers are in Montana. Gonna be taking that state-certification exam twice it looks like.

(Offer is really good, 58/hr starting for a non-retail pharmacy. Hope it's still there when I am done with school.)
 
Benelli said:
I have had a few job offers already and I am just starting P1 this fall. That's definitely a good feeling, but the issue is I am attending UC-Denver, and the offers are in Montana. Gonna be taking that state-certification exam twice it looks like.

(Offer is really good, 58/hr starting for a non-retail pharmacy. Hope it's still there when I am done with school.)
Click to expand...

Good luck getting that 4 years from now. not being a downer but a realist. If this is non-retail, unless you have family in the department administration I don't see a job being held for 4 years like that. It's possible they could keep you in mind for if the position opens up again but I don't see them putting you in a position and keeping it empty until you graduate and then take the state law exam for the next state.
 
I'm not in a position to demand a higher salary but some of these quotes for presumably new grad positions is really tilting me. I always thought retail = at least 50, hospital = 40-45.

crazybob said:
Higher salary doesn't always mean it's better.

In some places, I hear about insane salaries, but I can understand why given the company name and the neighborhood.

But from the way some people talk about how northeast is such a good place to live and they think that everywhere else isn't that great, wouldn't you be happy living there?

I've seen in a previous thread where there were enough job postings in Texas, but people refused to move there because they thought that part of the country wasn't good enough for them.
Click to expand...

I could make the same, probably more money, in somewhere like Florida. Not only that but in Florida I could probably buy a foreclosed house and a decent car on a year's salary, as opposed to renting an apartment in manhattan at something like 2-3k/month for a 1bed. living in NYC, and by that i really mean manhattan, and by that i really mean anything south of 96th st, is really reserved for people who don't mind living in conditions most americans might consider poverty level (i.e. living with roommates), or those who make at least 200k/year. and hospitals, even in high cost-of-living areas, can't justify paying that much more, especially when everywhere else in the US 100k is big money. actually, the way i see it, places in areas perceived to be awesome, like NYC, don't pay as much because they don't need to; whereas other underserved/potentially undersirable areas (i.e. montana, anywhere north of NYC city line and east of buffalo, the vaulted alaska position) gets more $$$.

but i do get what you're saying. it's all in the eye of the beholder. i prefer living in an area where methheads/crackheads aren't breaking into my house for pawnable items/stripping copper, where disliking glenn beck won't get me yelled at, where "gay" isn't generally used as an adjective/derogatory insult, things like that.

also ps that list was like all of z's unfilled DOP positions (he can't be everywhere at once you know)
 
THE MTL said:
Salaries will never go down. Its basic economics here ppl. The only thing that might go down though is raises and job offers.
Click to expand...

I've seen that reasoning posted before. Almost to the word. Maybe you could explain why salaries in fields such as IT went down after demand decreased. Or why entry-level lawyers salaries went down when the supply increased. I mean, this is basic economics. A higher supply-demand ratio will result in lower salaries.
 
I was surprised to see that the salary listed for Florida was one of the lowest on the Mercer list, even lower than Georgia. Not that it was a meaningful difference, but I was still surprised. I guess I shouldn't be though. With the population of Florida, and the amount of pharmacy schools in the state, I wouldn't guess that they have to exactly pay people to move there. Plus, there are some rural areas of Florida that aren't as expensive to live. It's pretty much a buyer's market all around the country, but one downside I see in Florida are the property taxes and insurance rates, especially if you live near the coast (which isn't hard, I mean, it's a skinny peninsula). Not sure if I'd want to live there again if I could make the same salary, or more, elsewhere.
 
Tinkerbell22 said:
I was surprised to see that the salary listed for Florida was one of the lowest on the Mercer list, even lower than Georgia. Not that it was a meaningful difference, but I was still surprised. I guess I shouldn't be though. With the population of Florida, and the amount of pharmacy schools in the state, I wouldn't guess that they have to exactly pay people to move there. Plus, there are some rural areas of Florida that aren't as expensive to live. It's pretty much a buyer's market all around the country, but one downside I see in Florida are the property taxes and insurance rates, especially if you live near the coast (which isn't hard, I mean, it's a skinny peninsula). Not sure if I'd want to live there again if I could make the same salary, or more, elsewhere.
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Tink, I never knew you were a hater. :smuggrin:
 
Tink is right though. All insurance rates suck in Florida which is enough to make me not want to move there, being an insurance agent and all. Some companies are trying to pull out from the state, terminate insurance at the drop of a hat if you are higher risk (legal yet somewhat temperamentally handled), increase rates due to number of claims, limit coverages, and etc. It happens all the time.

NY, NJ, Florida, CA, and TX are the main places I don't think I'd ever want to live on an insurance standpoint...
 
StevePerry said:
Which are, like, all the good places.
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TX- property insurance is a pain due to weather conditions.
CA- No credit required for insurance, wildfires, and the like.
NY + NJ- Terrible fraud with claims (like 20-30% are fraudulent)
FL- Horrible weather and a lot of fraud uncovered

Basically terrible weather conditions, natural disasters, and a **** ton of fraud. There are some other places like that, too. But everyone hates servicing those 5 states...
 
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Jabberwocky12 said:
TX- property insurance is a pain due to weather conditions.
CA- No credit required for insurance, wildfires, and the like.
NY + NJ- Terrible fraud with claims (like 20-30% are fraudulent)
FL- Horrible weather and a lot of fraud uncovered

Basically terrible weather conditions, natural disasters, and a **** ton of fraud. There are some other places like that, too. But everyone hates servicing those 5 states...
Click to expand...

Texas Home Owner's insurance rate issue was due to mold. As far as weather and natural disaster rates, I think other southern and plains states would rank right up there if not more as you'll see the same weather systems that passed through Texas were fairly mild yet did a lot of damages in other states.

But, TX and FL do not have state income tax.

You may wanted to have said Texas has a high property tax..not so much the property insurance.
 
owlegrad said:
Tink, I never knew you were a hater. :smuggrin:
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i can't be a hater if it's my own home state! lol :smuggrin:

Its Z said:
Texas Home Owner's insurance rate issue was due to mold. As far as weather and natural disaster rates, I think other southern and plains states would rank right up there if not more as you'll see the same weather systems that passed through Texas were fairly mild yet did a lot of damages in other states.

But, TX and FL do not have state income tax.

You may wanted to have said Texas has a high property tax..not so much the property insurance.
Click to expand...

the main thing i miss about Florida is no state income tax... state income tax s*cks badly after not ever having it.
 
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