Pharmacy and job security

[ccraft]

I have recently gotten out of the Marine Corps after serving 4 years and have finished one year of community college. I am at the point where starting next quarter I have to choose a path for either Nursing or Pharm because of prereqs to transfer to universities (also considering dental and optometry but to my understanding they have similar pathways for the point I'm currently at).

Pharmacy really appeals to me as a job and from the pay, but all I hear is that the job security is terrible, along with many medical professions. I am wondering how dental, optometry, and nursing compare in terms of job security.

I also always hear about how being a veteran will help get you a medical job. Does anyone know how legitimate this is? Hoping that maybe I won't have to worry about the job security as much as most. However, my military experience had nothing to do with the medical field.

I am sure there are similar threads to this one, but assumed mine may be a little unique considering the military experience.

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[Screwtape]

What about PA?

 

[Old Timer]

I have recently gotten out of the Marine Corps after serving 4 years and have finished one year of community college. I am at the point where starting next quarter I have to choose a path for either Nursing or Pharm because of prereqs to transfer to universities (also considering dental and optometry but to my understanding they have similar pathways for the point I'm currently at).

Pharmacy really appeals to me as a job and from the pay, but all I hear is that the job security is terrible, along with many medical professions. I am wondering how dental, optometry, and nursing compare in terms of job security.

I also always hear about how being a veteran will help get you a medical job. Does anyone know how legitimate this is? Hoping that maybe I won't have to worry about the job security as much as most. However, my military experience had nothing to do with the medical field.

I am sure there are similar threads to this one, but assumed mine may be a little unique considering the military experience.

Right now, there is no good health field. Of the choices you gave, Dentistry is the best because you can still own your own practice.

 

[TheBlaah]

You're right that with your military experience, it would be easier obtaining a job in certain positions. Specifically, you would be put in a priority list with military hospitals and probably VA hospitals. I don't know the details as I got this as second-hand information from a friend. I would agree with Screwtape that you should consider PA school as they would probably be most in demand with military/VA hospitals (other than nurses, but PA still seems like the more ideal choice to me).

 

[ccraft]

You're right that with your military experience, it would be easier obtaining a job in certain positions. Specifically, you would be put in a priority list with military hospitals and probably VA hospitals. I don't know the details as I got this as second-hand information from a friend. I would agree with Screwtape that you should consider PA school as they would probably be most in demand with military/VA hospitals (other than nurses, but PA still seems like the more ideal choice to me).

Thank you, this is something I will obviously have to look into more, but was unable to find anything recently pertaining to the military portion.

I will have to look more into PA. I have looked, but very little compared to the previously mentioned professions.

 

[Digsbe]

Sometimes I wish I went PA/NP. I would have graduated 2 years ago, had less than half the debt and could come out of school making 85k+ while being a practitioner. I think as insurance get more stingy and midlevels more autonomy amid a primary care shortage the demand for PA/NP may go up even more than now.

 

[radio frequency]

I think being an MD or DO is a great choice, and dentistry is also a great choice. While being a PA or NP is a quick route to a good job, I don't think it's a great long term solution. You would forever be below the MD or DO in terms of doing "scut work", pay scale, and also in ability to grow.

Pharmacy is ok, but I don't think there's a great long term outlook right now due to so many new schools. That said, there will always be a demand for competent pharmacists. We clearly haven't reached saturation levels yet (but may soon) as I have worked with incompetent pharmacists who are still employed. You sound intelligent and I imagine you will do well in any field you choose as long as you choose it for the right reasons. Shadow some different health professionals and make sure you pick a good goal for you!

 

[W19]

I vote for dentistry... You can practice without doing a residency... You will have the potential to be your own boss working 40 hrs/wk and earn 200k+/year.

Another choice that is very appealing IMO is to become an EM doc... You can make 350k+/year working 120hrs/month.

 

[HelpfulPharmer1]

I have recently gotten out of the Marine Corps after serving 4 years and have finished one year of community college.
I also always hear about how being a veteran will help get you a medical job. Does anyone know how legitimate this is?

First, thank you very much for your sacrifice for the country. We appreciate you. Please know that I did a lot of favors for folks once I know they have Tricare insurance. Here, your Marine service got my attention.

Welcome back and I hope to see you in the battle with me here. I have friends who aced pharmacy school because of experience from the battle field. I know hiring managers who favor hiring ex-military because we know you have been through hell and back.
We know you will work hard.

I have been sharing with young aspiring pharmacy students to study and sacrifice like soldier going to battle. Do whatever it takes to survive....here, survive the pharmacy school....sacrifice...sacrifice...sacrifice...because comparing to the real bloody battle field, you can control the situation.

If you still have the energy and freedom of a soldier, I still recommend pharmacy if you can do what I am doing: Work any shift, any time, anywhere, you will have a pharmacist job. Guaranteed. Today. I know a guy making 70 bucks an hour on mountain with rent paid by the company.

If you situation has changed and required you to settle down in 1 place and can not move then I have no comment about pharmacy.

Whatever you decide, be sure to mention you military background when you visit street pharmacy, you may meet me somewhere out there and I go above and beyond for you folks.

 

[jeffk805dent]

I vote for dentistry... You can practice without doing a residency... You will have the potential to be your own boss working 40 hrs/wk and earn 200k+/year.

Another choice that is very appealing IMO is to become an EM doc... You can make 350k+/year working 120hrs/month.

dentistry is a good gig but one must take into account the student debt one might acquire if they go to a non-public school (getting admitted into the public dental school is not very easy).

EM sounds good on paper but the burnout in EM is real, otherwise everyone would be flocking to EM right now if it was truly a lifestyle specialty.

 

[W19]

dentistry is a good gig but one must take into account the student debt one might acquire if they go to a non-public school (getting admitted into the public dental school is not very easy).

EM sounds good on paper but the burnout in EM is real, otherwise everyone would be flocking to EM right now if it was truly a lifestyle specialty.

Every med student is flocking to EM right now... as evidenced by board scores are creeping up... People understand that they can work full time for at least 10 years, and then cut their hours to 20/week and still make 200k+/year...

 

[jeffk805dent]

Every med student is flocking to EM right now... as evidenced by board scores are creeping up... People understand that they can work full time for at least 10 years, and then cut their hours to 20/week and still make 200k+/year...

based on the charting outcomes provided by the NRMP, board scores for EM are indeed creeping up but so too are other specialties' board scores.

In addition, on page 15, outside of PMR, EM has the highest range of board scores varying from 220 to 245.


http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

 

[deleted723470]

with the way things are going, unless you have a dying desire and passion for pharmacy, I would choose NR/NP/PA/nurse anesthetist. Or if you have the competency, dentistry or medicine is the way to go.

 

[radio frequency]

I don't think being an NP or a PA is a great choice either. Those programs are currently undergoing huge expansions as well.

 

[W19]

It's not looking good for CRNA as well. I think dentistry is the way to go!

 

[PAtoPharm]

with the way things are going, unless you have a dying desire and passion for pharmacy, I would choose NR/NP/PA/nurse anesthetist. Or if you have the competency, dentistry or medicine is the way to go.

If you don't mind, could you expand on what you mean when you say "the way things are going?" Are you primarily referring to the oversupply issue? Thanks....

 

[Lnsean]

everything is saturated....although i feel mid-levels (NPs/PAs) are going to be the wave of the future with healthcare costs being a major concern.....but i'd suggest go with what you think is your passion and what you like and let the chips fall where they fall.

 

[PharmtoCS]

The majority of healthcare professions are saturated and require a considerable amount of tuition and education with maybe PA providing the best return on investment. If you're willing to look outside of healthcare, then there's finance, engineering, and computer programming that are in equal or higher demand relative to pharmacy, pay well, and do not require you to take out $200k+ in loans.

 

[jeffk805dent]

The majority of healthcare professions are saturated and require a considerable amount of tuition and education with maybe PA providing the best return on investment.

saturated in the metro/urban city sense. Lots of openings for a variety of healthcare professions in the boonies. Of course that means the person has to work in the boonies. Like city lifestyle, the boonies are not for everyone.

 

[Shazzy1228]

I wouldn't do it. Like someone else mentioned, consider options outside of healthcare too. I could have been working for Google right now had I thought everything out at age 18.
Get business savvy even if you don't directly go into business. I have come to see the real value of this in the scientist-entrepreneurs I have encountered in my lab. Treat projects like products and manage to get venture capitalists to invest. They never have a problem with funding. If you can learn how to market yourself, negotiate, and network(and I mean real networking here. Not you and the graduating class. Powerful people is what I mean) the sky is the limit. My PI happens to have a patent and a biotech company. He is also the director of our center and manages a 30-person lab. Guess what he initially started as? He totally operates like a businessman. BOSS!
Good luck man
Note: If everyone is becoming a PA, who will be the supervising MD's? You guys this field will get saturated soon enough too.

 

[Lnsean]

saturated in the metro/urban city sense. Lots of openings for a variety of healthcare professions in the boonies. Of course that means the person has to work in the boonies. Like city lifestyle, the boonies are not for everyone.

This is a major misconception and has been proven wrong. Do a quick read on the other forums on studentdoctor network and you'll find this isn't necessarily true anymore. Sure, there will be some openings in undesirable locations for any field/any job but I hate when people throw this around like it's a 100% insurance policy.

 

[jeffk805dent]

This is a major misconception and has been proven wrong. Do a quick read on the other forums on studentdoctor network and you'll find this isn't necessarily true anymore. Sure, there will be some openings in undesirable locations for any field/any job but I hate when people throw this around like it's a 100% insurance policy.

you're right but what I meant to say that suburban/rural jobs are easier to get than metro city jobs (but not guaranteed). However, people still continue to get metro city jobs so the thought of no jobs in those places is greatly exaggerated.


You do bring up a good point, if say a dentist works in a place of 25,000, he/she has to assume not all of those people will go visit their dentist and that the remainder may not have even suitable insurance to allow the dentist to make a good profit.

 

[radio frequency]

This is a major misconception and has been proven wrong. Do a quick read on the other forums on studentdoctor network and you'll find this isn't necessarily true anymore. Sure, there will be some openings in undesirable locations for any field/any job but I hate when people throw this around like it's a 100% insurance policy.

If there was true saturation, it would be easier for us to find competent pharmacists to work where I work. It's not that easy still...

 

[PharMed2016]

Dentistry hands down if your want the most earning potential vs. number of hours work.

 

[VeeSee]

Dentistry is far superior

You are an autonomous health care professional

 

[deleted723470]

If you don't mind, could you expand on what you mean when you say "the way things are going?" Are you primarily referring to the oversupply issue? Thanks....

Pharmacy schools are opening left and right, and the call to cap continues to be ignored. Plus WG and CVS are successful in playing their monopoly game.

 

[Lnsean]

If there was true saturation, it would be easier for us to find competent pharmacists to work where I work. It's not that easy still...

I'm sure it has to do with the fact that the pool of incompetent pharmacists is growing. I mean there was a post on here a few weeks ago about a guy who graduated and couldn't pass the NAPLEX. More schools....lower standards...more incompetent pharmacists.

 

[CardinalGirl210]

Right now, there is no good health field. Of the choices you gave, Dentistry is the best because you can still own your own practice.

I agree. So many people on this forum are yelling don't go into pharmacy, but if you take a look at all the forums, each profession has complaints about their market because healthcare in the US is changing. No one is getting paid the same way they used to get paid. Of course people will continue to be sick, so there will be jobs, but the reimbursements will be different. Do what you are passionate about.

 

[steveysmith54]

I agree. So many people on this forum are yelling don't go into pharmacy, but if you take a look at all the forums, each profession has complaints about their market because healthcare in the US is changing. No one is getting paid the same way they used to get paid. Of course people will continue to be sick, so there will be jobs, but the reimbursements will be different. Do what you are passionate about.

I disagree with you completely. Unlike other profession, pharmacy got screwed and fudged by greedy and money hungry "leaders" who decided to double the supply of pharmacists and create unemployment by opening pharmacy schools. Four new schools opened in California in the last two years. I am waiting to see what will be the aftermath. This is 85% of the problem in our profession, Which is self evoked by pharmacists. Please do not post the all professions are going through a change as an excuse for what happened due irresponsible expansion of schools.

 

[Unchained]

I agree. So many people on this forum are yelling don't go into pharmacy, but if you take a look at all the forums, each profession has complaints about their market because healthcare in the US is changing. No one is getting paid the same way they used to get paid. Of course people will continue to be sick, so there will be jobs, but the reimbursements will be different. Do what you are passionate about.

If you just do what you are passionate about it will be Ok. Do a lot of networking and differentiate yourself. Provider status will create new jobs. Our role is expanding. I never would've thought we would be performing a valuable service such as immunizations on our patients.

 

[radio frequency]

If you just do what you are passionate about it will be Ok. Do a lot of networking and differentiate yourself. Provider status will create new jobs. Our role is expanding. I never would've thought we would be performing a valuable service such as immunizations on our patients.

????

 

[Lnsean]

I disagree with you completely. Unlike other profession, pharmacy got screwed and fudged by greedy and money hungry "leaders" who decided to double the supply of pharmacists and create unemployment by opening pharmacy schools. Four new schools opened in California in the last two years. I am waiting to see what will be the aftermath. This is 85% of the problem in our profession, Which is self evoked by pharmacists. Please do not post the all professions are going through a change as an excuse for what happened due irresponsible expansion of schools.

Our regulating body is weak as hell unlike the AMA....

 

[radio frequency]

I agree. So many people on this forum are yelling don't go into pharmacy, but if you take a look at all the forums, each profession has complaints about their market because healthcare in the US is changing. No one is getting paid the same way they used to get paid. Of course people will continue to be sick, so there will be jobs, but the reimbursements will be different. Do what you are passionate about.

Passion is the worst reason to do something. What happens when the passion dries up?

 

[radio frequency]

I'm sure it has to do with the fact that the pool of incompetent pharmacists is growing. I mean there was a post on here a few weeks ago about a guy who graduated and couldn't pass the NAPLEX. More schools....lower standards...more incompetent pharmacists.

No. We aren't even getting new/recent grad applicants.

 

[Lnsean]

No. We aren't even getting new/recent grad applicants.

Sure we are. Jefferson in Philly has been graduating their classes for the past few years even before accreditation. Schools have been opening up for the past decade.

 

[radio frequency]

Sure we are. Jefferson in Philly has been graduating their classes for the past few years even before accreditation. Schools have been opening up for the past decade.

I'm talking specifically about my location of work. Unless you work with me, you wouldn't know.

 

[Lnsean]

I'm talking specifically about my location of work. Unless you work with me, you wouldn't know.

doesn't matter...i'm talking about a general trend that has been happening for the past 10 years

 

[gwarm01]

If you just do what you are passionate about it will be Ok. Do a lot of networking and differentiate yourself. Provider status will create new jobs. Our role is expanding. I never would've thought we would be performing a valuable service such as immunizations on our patients.

Haha, for once I thought you were posting without mentioning vaccines..

 

[steveysmith54]

I'm talking specifically about my location of work. Unless you work with me, you wouldn't know.

lol...maybe there is something unique and undesirable about your location of work. 98% of the posters and pharmacist can't relate to your situation.

 

[steveysmith54]

Our regulating body is weak as hell unlike the AMA....

it's all corrupt. Our APhA president decided to help open a school in Irvine and preach about emerging jobs of the future.. it's all a joke. not a very funny one. federal money is paying for it.

 

[Shazzy1228]

Sure we are. Jefferson in Philly has been graduating their classes for the past few years even before accreditation. Schools have been opening up for the past decade.

are you serious? hopefully, they are competent. jeff's programs are usually good so we will see. I recently worked with a pharmacist who sounded like a high school teen. A customer asked her about a script sent by the doctor and she said, "umm yea I called the doc and he was like yea I sent it in. can't do anything else for you". next day, the customer yelled at my pharmacy manager for her unprofessionalism.

 

[CardinalGirl210]

I disagree with you completely. Unlike other profession, pharmacy got screwed and fudged by greedy and money hungry "leaders" who decided to double the supply of pharmacists and create unemployment by opening pharmacy schools. Four new schools opened in California in the last two years. I am waiting to see what will be the aftermath. This is 85% of the problem in our profession, Which is self evoked by pharmacists. Please do not post the all professions are going through a change as an excuse for what happened due irresponsible expansion of schools.

Look in the dental forums - they are saying the same hoopla that you are. Too many schools, too much debt, don't waste you're time, etc...

 

[CardinalGirl210]

Passion is the worst reason to do something. What happens when the passion dries up?

Well if you're doing it for the money that will probably dry up faster than your passion will. Look at all these posts that say if RPhs salary went down to just 90K they would ditch. What happens when the money dries up? The passionate people will still be working.

 

[PharmaSex]

This thread is depressing. Thank god I worked my ass off a year ago to find a position that I really wanted. I used to work for Rite Aid fyi so I made my move at the right time. Now I work at a hospital where I get some good pay and benefits.

 

[Shazzy1228]

This thread is depressing. Thank god I worked my ass off a year ago to find a position that I really wanted. I used to work for Rite Aid fyi so I made my move at the right time. Now I work at a hospital where I get some good pay and benefits.

got out of the wrong aid. good for you. now....do u need a CPhT/EMT to help you. lets be friends.

 

[radio frequency]

Well if you're doing it for the money that will probably dry up faster than your passion will. Look at all these posts that say if RPhs salary went down to just 90K they would ditch. What happens when the money dries up? The passionate people will still be working.

Nah. I love my job. But I reserve my passion for outside of paid work. I've worked in a field where I had passion. It made me bitter about the things I loved most.

 

[Got Em]

dentistry is a good gig but one must take into account the student debt one might acquire if they go to a non-public school (getting admitted into the public dental school is not very easy).

EM sounds good on paper but the burnout in EM is real, otherwise everyone would be flocking to EM right now if it was truly a lifestyle specialty.

Good point, but the burnout in healthcare and medicine in general is real. You are correct that it sounds better on paper, as flip-flopping schedules and the type of non-stop work and concentration can be draining. However, even "cush" fields have burn out; dermatology has 37% burnout rate. At least for EM, you can decrease your shifts and it's more flexible.

Also, students ARE flocking to EM right now. Per charting outcomes from NRMP, the average step 1 score for EM went up 7 points from 2011 to 2014, which is the largest increase of any specialty. There are very few spots left unfilled every year (0 in 2012). I'm not saying that EM is anywhere as competitive to some other specialties like Derm or Ortho, but the gaining interest in EM is definitely real.

 

[Singuy]

Since no one ever mentions this one, here's another doom and gloom future I am predicting:

A pharmacist will one day be replaced by Siri, Watson, Google Now, Cortana, or whatever AI in the future + a vending machine.

I know many are proud of what they do, but honestly pharmacy is soft. Our board exam is 4 hours long(most can complete it in 2) with an additional law exam that takes another hour to complete.

Just think of all the power we have! We can't change a drug from TID to q8h without calling the MD(in retail at least). There's a reason why Walgreens are looking into automated dispensing machine (like an Omnicell/vending machine with a RPH Skype function) and trying to cut rphs out of the picture. The best pharmacist out there knows probably 10% of every article ever published and every drug drug interaction/IV compatibilities/MOA by heart (I mean memorized, not heard of or read it once)..while a computer knows 100% of everything (without second guessing) and will always be up to date.

If the MD ONLY diagnose and the RPH must prescribe from a "diagnostic prescription", then we actually have a future. Since the MD does both, what is the purpose of a RPH really? "To catch their mistakes!"..well guess what...IBM's Watson is 10x better than any oncology clinical pharmacist and is being used right now on an ipad.

 

[steveysmith54]

Look in the dental forums - they are saying the same hoopla that you are. Too many schools, too much debt, don't waste you're time, etc...

Not sure which boards you are reading. I asked this question and number or dental schools opened and closed have been almost equivalent in the last decade for dentist. Only thing that someone pointed out is class sizes may have been increased. However, your claim is not not correct. Not trying to make a personal attack, just no evidence there.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-new-dental-schools-in-last-10-years.1169936/

 

[Digsbe]

Since no one ever mentions this one, here's another doom and gloom future I am predicting:

A pharmacist will one day be replaced by Siri, Watson, Google Now, Cortana, or whatever AI in the future + a vending machine.

I know many are proud of what they do, but honestly pharmacy is soft. Our board exam is 4 hours long(most can complete it in 2) with an additional law exam that takes another hour to complete.

Just think of all the power we have! We can't change a drug from TID to q8h without calling the MD(in retail at least). There's a reason why Walgreens are looking into automated dispensing machine (like an Omnicell/vending machine with a RPH Skype function) and trying to cut rphs out of the picture. The best pharmacist out there knows probably 10% of every article ever published and every drug drug interaction/IV compatibilities/MOA by heart (I mean memorized, not heard of or read it once)..while a computer knows 100% of everything (without second guessing) and will always be up to date.

If the MD ONLY diagnose and the RPH must prescribe from a "diagnostic prescription", then we actually have a future. Since the MD does both, what is the purpose of a RPH really? "To catch their mistakes!"..well guess what...IBM's Watson is 10x better than any oncology clinical pharmacist and is being used right now on an ipad.

The idea of pharmacotherapy clinics would be nice, but I don't see that happening anytime soon and being reimbursed. The AMA and NP/PA lobbies will try to kill that even if it shows beneficial outcomes or reduces strain on the healthcare system. Seeing patient cases and outpatient prescriptions being such a blunder or meds used inefficiently makes me wish it would happen though.