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Pharmacy labor supply and demand. How can everyone help?

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by Rph888, Jan 30, 2012.

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  1. Rph888

    Rph888

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    We all know that there is a large excess of Rph labor in today's economy. This will continue to get worse for years to come. Wages are already falling regionally and total income is dropping--less hours per rph.

    How can each and every Rph and pharmacy student help alleviate this situation?

    How can we educate young students to the fact that the good days of pharmacy labor are gone, never to return in today's economy?

    I encounter far too many bright-eyed students--how can we let more people know the truth?

    or is this all a dream, can nothing stop droves of students heading for a pharmd?

    Thanks
  2. awval999

    awval999 New Member

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    Truly, what I do to force the issue is to make passing comments to the Director/Asst. Director about not hiring new grads from new pharmacy schools. By not taking students for APPE's from the newer schools. If the new grads from the new schools can't get jobs, it will trickle back and eventually the school may close (or at least limit growth in class sizes).
  3. bacillus1

    bacillus1

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    Eat lunch.

    Seriously, if every pharmacist took a lunch break (even a quick one), they'd be happier and would make less errors. And if everyone did it, the PDMs wouldn't be able to discourage it.
  4. Ackj

    Ackj

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    They don't want to know the truth. I've tried talking about it to the P1s, some students interviewing, etc. But they all think they'll get a free bmw and $30k for signing up with a company. When I mention the big increase in pharmacy schools and graduates, they counter with "but so many more people take medicine now, and those baby boomers are going on medicare."

    Seems the best thing you can do is just stay informed and you'll be ahead of the rest of them. Remember you don't have to outrun the lion, you only need to outrun the slowest member of your herd.
  5. gtpmle

    gtpmle juuuuust a bit outside

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    Also true with zombies. :thumbup:
  6. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    Can't you just outrun zombies? :confused:
  7. gtpmle

    gtpmle juuuuust a bit outside

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    Unfortunately not if you're into the latest in zombie cinema. But really, would anyone really make it out of a zombie attack? The sheer number of zombies alone... oi vey.
  8. rxlea

    rxlea Unicorn wannabe Moderator Emeritus Gold Donor

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    Haven't you seen Dawn of the Dead or whatever it's called. You eventually run out of places to go and the zombies gobble you up.

    it's kindof analogous to the cvs sucks and job market threads. You think they're dead but they suddenly pop up again. I know that's a reach but whatevs I'm tired ;)

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  9. MountainPharmD

    MountainPharmD custodiunt illud simplex

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    I recommend all students drop out of school immediatly.
  10. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    Ok, I am not the one comparing a zombie to a lion. You cannot outrun a lion, you could outrun a single zombie (any movie that says otherwise is wrong). Now if we are comparing a lion to a zombie attack, that is a little trickier. The lion will tire. Things eaten by lions do not become lions. Actually the whole comparison breaks down the more I think about it.

    But my point was that you don't need to feed the slowest member of the herd to a zombie lion because you can just outrun it. I think. I am starting to get tired too.
  11. rxlea

    rxlea Unicorn wannabe Moderator Emeritus Gold Donor

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    I think the comparison was the act of running, not the lion. Either way, zombie attack or lion, you're screwed. Also, I don't think he was speaking in terms of a human vs. a lion; rather, a formidable prey (i.e. gazelle) vs. a lion. But then again, I have been staring at therapeutics all evening.

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  12. Ackj

    Ackj

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    I'll reword it:

    You don't have to be hVISA, you just have to make sure you aren't the isolate with the lowest MIC.
  13. DelawareStudent

    DelawareStudent

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    Seriously, wtf Resident Evil - stop with your fear mongering ideas of super fast mutant zombies!
  14. farmadiazepine

    farmadiazepine

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    Have the APhA or ACPE or whoever the accrediting association for pharmacy schools is (I honestly don't know, ..funny, cuz that's how much of an impact they really have) put a cap on how many students a school can take per year. Limiting the amount of RPhs will keep wages high and hours plenty for pharmacists. The AMA does it with medical schools. Whoever the pharmacy association is should do it with pharmacy schools, instead of approving every school that wants to open up.
  15. ACE Rx

    ACE Rx Super Senior Member

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    ACPE is the accrediting body. There need to be higher standards for opening a pharmacy school -- AMA does a really good job at this for their medical students. At today's rate, anyone with the money can open one up and I'm sure quality is not standardized from one pharmacy school to another. Compare this to dental schools where they refuse to be ranked because each dental school accredited by the ADA teaches the same thing.

    Either that or talk with directors of pharmacy to only hire people from reputable schools and not new schools out of nowhere. This will greatly limit the number of schools opening if said school has a reputation of their grads not getting their careers started.
  16. Aznfarmerboi

    Aznfarmerboi Senior Member

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    I have been warning about the impending job shortage since 09. Everytime I post, students trolled me or outright think they know more than me. It is always the same bs like its the economy...., medicare, etc.

    I gave up a while ago. They are the ones who will get eaten up. My job like many pharmacists around me are secure. It is our job to "lose" so to speak. They just have to wait for my sloppy seconds. It does suck knowing that my raises will be non existant but I make more than enough. I can always make more through investments.
  17. rxlea

    rxlea Unicorn wannabe Moderator Emeritus Gold Donor

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    I lol'd. Nerd ;)

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  18. Rutgers2015

    Rutgers2015

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    This sounds like a good idea, but how can we help? Send massive emails to the ACPE?
  19. All4MyDaughter

    All4MyDaughter SDN Mommystrator Staff Member Administrator SDN Senior Moderator Lifetime Donor Partner Organization

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    Newsflash: The AMA doesn't accredit medical schools and has no control over whether they open or not.

    One of the most often repeated myths on this forum...
  20. Ackj

    Ackj

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    But why aren't they popping up everywhere? Would be just as good, if not better, of a money-grab as opening up a pharmacy school. I know people mention the residencies aren't increasing so that's another choke-point, but I don't think that would bother a for-profit school.
  21. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    Why spoil a good argument with facts?
  22. type b pharmD

    type b pharmD

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    Because the AAMC strictly regulates new accreditation granting.
  23. confettiflyer

    confettiflyer Unicorn w/ dirty wings

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    Doubtful, and not very easy given the small world of pharmacy. Most directors have good professional/personal relationships with various faculty/staff at existing pharmacy schools, and these contacts continue as these persons invariably take up posts at newer schools.

    I've found that directors are less concerned with the sheer market economics of oversupply (if anything, they're happy to spend less of their budget if it means being able to snag a high quality grad at a lower price point), than about the progression of pharmacy within their own institution. If taking APPE students and interviewing new grads from a larger pool enables them to cast a wider net for the candidate that best suits their institution, they're going to do it.
  24. confettiflyer

    confettiflyer Unicorn w/ dirty wings

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    Call your congressman and ask for the repeal of the Sherman Antitrust Act :smuggrin::smuggrin:
  25. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    Dude you crack me up. :laugh:
  26. All4MyDaughter

    All4MyDaughter SDN Mommystrator Staff Member Administrator SDN Senior Moderator Lifetime Donor Partner Organization

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    The cost to entry is much higher for a medical school. The difficulty of setting up two years of rotations, etc. Despite this, a number of new medical schools have opened in the last few years. Including one for-profit school. :shrug:
  27. MShopes

    MShopes

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    Change.org seems to do wonders when it comes to changing anything people don't like. Let's all start a petition to either raise the standards of admission to pharmacy school or lower the number of pharmacy schools opening up (even though they are already too much). This probably won't change anything but it's worth a try.
  28. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member Administrator SDN Senior Moderator

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    This is one of the more creative ideas I have heard on this issue. It sure beats suggesting things that are illegal/impossible. :thumbup:
  29. MShopes

    MShopes

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    Yea I have seen it changing things that would not be changed otherwise. It's a great way to connect all people together too.
  30. Mila T

    Mila T jOURney

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  31. spacecowgirl

    spacecowgirl brr

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    I'm going on maternity leave. That's my contribution, you're welcome.
  32. All4MyDaughter

    All4MyDaughter SDN Mommystrator Staff Member Administrator SDN Senior Moderator Lifetime Donor Partner Organization

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    I am not looking for a full time hospital or retail job. So I'm helping too!
  33. MShopes

    MShopes

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    Can both of you wait 4 more years for me to finish pharmacy first? ^^^^ :D
  34. spacecowgirl

    spacecowgirl brr

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    I'm not gestating an elephant! :laugh:
  35. Farmercyst

    Farmercyst Lowest common denominator Moderator Emeritus

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    True, but I thought unicorns took an incredibly long time as well.
  36. xtsukiyox

    xtsukiyox Moderator Emeritus

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    Congratulations on your soon-to-be non-elephant. :D
  37. Dalteparin

    Dalteparin

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    That's so exciting! Congrats!
  38. Its Z

    Its Z Retired

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    There are 2 events that must take place to increase pharmacist demand. Closure of pharmacy schools and real estate expansion. I dont see either happening in next 10 years.

    Another favorable scenario is creation of PA like pharmacist practitioner mid level provider. I dont see it happening.

    Instead of hoping others to do something which you cant control, concentrate on what you can do to increase your chance of survival through this tough period...decade.

    Do well in school, network...work more and get more education. Only the fittest will survive.
  39. Rph888

    Rph888

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    thanks Z, i am working on school, networking. I fear the excess education part though...i think too many pharmacists will end up with mha/mba/pgy1-2

    i was thinking more along the lines of how to get demand for the pharmd degree down...if every applicant knew the job outlook i think the # applications would fall sharply, closing some new, underfunded degree mills...just a hope/dream...
  40. confettiflyer

    confettiflyer Unicorn w/ dirty wings

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    i thought it was a better idea to increase demand for pharmd's/pharmacy services... but eh what do i know?
  41. xGlassChild

    xGlassChild

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    So what you're saying is that I shouldn't aspire to be a Pharmacist?

    (High school junior, very scared about the oversaturated market.)
  42. MShopes

    MShopes

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    Let America stop investing in wars and intervening when they are not needed, and let them stop giving money to other countries when they are already in debt....by saving that money, they can do some tax cuts, allowing people to have more money to spend, which in turn increases demand. Increasing demand increases jobs and workers and stimulates the economy. By that way, we can possibly have more jobs available.

    Basic economics.
  43. awval999

    awval999 New Member

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    You my friend, should aspire to something else, but don't worry, you'll do great, you're already thinking about your future!
  44. jaiborntowin

    jaiborntowin

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    Every people have to think about themselves how they want to be treated when they are in the same situation ? Then only humanity will serve in this world. If not precious life of many people may happen to leave their bodies!. So education is must for every one and humanity is a compulsory !
  45. NAPLEXON

    NAPLEXON

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    America is a great nation, but corrupt politicians are destroying it. Never did I imagine I would see extreme poverty in America. 5 trillion dollars spent on wars in the last 10 years while there are countless homeless people living in their cars or living in tents? While there are 50 million Americans , including approximately 20 million children, who do not have enough money for the food, shelter, clothing, or even the medical care they need, and are forced to live in terrible circumstances?

    It is so sad. It broke my heart when I saw those kids on a BBC report whose moms can not afford buying food for them, so they make "ketchup soup", that is ketchup in hot water, to satisfy their hunger. Americans will take the streets if that bull**** does not stop.
  46. xtsukiyox

    xtsukiyox Moderator Emeritus

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    Uh, 1/6 of Americans are living in "terrible circumstances"? Compared to what? 50 million is the statistic I've heard for no health insurance, not abject poverty...

    To play devil's advocate, I saw how those people spend what money they do get. They'd use the ketchup soup / sandwich (ketchup between saltine crackers) story on me. But right after their welfare check came in, I could see spending at the smoke shop & the liquor store...

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  47. rxlea

    rxlea Unicorn wannabe Moderator Emeritus Gold Donor

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    there are reasons why so many poor people are smoking, drinking, and/or using drugs. Mental health care, including substance abuse social services, needs a makeover. It's easy to pass judgment when we know nothing about the situation. The problem is, is that the government tries to alleviate the symptoms of an underlying problem and they aren't very successful.

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  48. All4MyDaughter

    All4MyDaughter SDN Mommystrator Staff Member Administrator SDN Senior Moderator Lifetime Donor Partner Organization

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    It is FAR too easy to pass judgment on "those people."

    Sigh.

    I guess it's about time for another "we hate the poor" thread.
  49. xGlassChild

    xGlassChild

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    I am very saddened by your advice.
    Do you know how saturated the job market is right now?
    Like, are there two pharmacists for each job opening? Three?
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  50. rxlea

    rxlea Unicorn wannabe Moderator Emeritus Gold Donor

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    I know, right? Where are the free bags of cocaine?

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