On your first day at cvs you should be looking for another job. Don’t wait until you are 50. It is a soul crushing job. No humans should have to endure such unpleasant working conditions
Pharmacy school admissions crisis
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On your first day at cvs you should be looking for another job. Don’t wait until you are 50. It is a soul crushing job. No humans should have to endure such unpleasant working conditions
Because there is an extra charge for next delivery. And we did regular 3-4 day shipping while having a week supply left. There were no issues prior to that so we mistakenly assumed it would be the same this time.
This is a common occurrence with mail order. We regularly get folks requesting two week prescriptions to get by until their shipment arrives at the retail.
Anyways on topic, we used to have a regional school with enrollment of 150 ten years ago. But now it’s down to 50 according to a friend who went there. Of course, more schools opened in a meantime so number has been split rather than going down straight.
I have golden handcuff. Right now I have enough PTO where I can take 12 weeks off in year if I plan it that way. Get plenty of week days off so I don’t have to use PTO to run regular errands.
M to F job sounds like a nightmare to me. I think having weekdays off is more important than the weekends because everything important happens during weekdays.
And just a thought of starting a new job with two week PTO kills me.. There is a lot I hate about retail pharmacy. But, having three days off on any given week is the perk you would never get in any other jobs.
12 x 5 days = 60 days PTO? What retail gives that many PTO? Assuming $65/hr, that is equivalent to more than $30 k
Due to my template, I have 5 days out of 7 off every three weeks. Then I request PTO on two days so I can get 7 days off straight by using PTO for only two days.
Sounds like fuzzy math there. It gives an impression that they are paid time off.
When I work my every third weekend (sat and sun), I get mond and Tue off. Then i normally work wed and Thurs and then get Frid, Sat and Sun off according to regular template. So, if I request PTO on that wed and thurs, I get 7 days straight off.
I get enough PTO to do this more than 12 times a year.
How many paid time off days do you get in one year?
About 27.
27 is pretty good if you don’t include paid holidays
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Already in place with dispensing units. I seriously have one tech right now (been here a full year at this point) who is too incompetent to read a label, find a drug, scan, count, label, and put back said drug…in the right location. Automation dumbs down the process for him just having to scan a label, take a picture
Taking more and more simply to train a technician to do seemingly simple work with the ever expanding system features and bells and whistles of ever expanding “pharmacy” services that come out each year
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That is the same reason that many of my retail friends "choose to stay". However, I'm always telling them that "you don't know what you have missed until you venture out" haha. I work 4x10 so I always have a weekday off. If I pick Fri & Mon as my weekday off, I will have a 4 days weekend every 2 weeks. That is usually enough for me to run errands or going to dentist/doctor appointments (I have another 96 hrs of sick leave per year for health related issues). Combine all the vacation, holidays & sick leave, I have ~ 38 days of PTO a year. If I stay 20 years, I think I'll get 8 more vacation days. I also get free health insurance & pension. My job is union so I get raise twice a year (my pay now is $20/hr more than when I was a RXM 3 years ago). So if your retail handcuffs is gold, mine is probably diamond.
That’s not the point. If I were to quit my current job and start all over, it would take at least a decade or more where I would be able to match my current PTO benefits.
So the question is, do I really want that? My current job is stressful yes, but not to the point where I forgo all the perks I have accrued all these years.
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If 27 days PTO per year is your benefits, then No, it doesn't take a decade to get that. UHC/Optum starts their RPhs at 23 days PTO per year & increases to 28 days after 5 years of service. Public employers (like mine) usually start people at 30+ days PTO per year.
True, your current rotation allows you to take a week off every month. However, have you actually done that (take a week off a month for 12 months) ? Or is it just a theory (since your coworkers need to take PTO too right)?
Will your pharmacy hours be immuned from all the hours cut that frequently happen in retails ? Your nice schedule can be easily altered with just a simple hours cut. Assumed that you can keep your schedule forever, what would you do when you are old enough and can't bear the stress anymore ? Drop to part-time maybe ?
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Nope.
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If PTO is the single benefit that is your golden handcuffs you might be surprised what’s available out there.
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Some PICs get paid $80+/hr now in my district. Our pay went up during the pandemic, too.
A lot of hospitals start their employees in that range too.
I take several weeks off like that during the year. Of course, I don’t do it monthly because I use it to take 10-14 consecutive days off for big vacations, but it’s definitely doable if I request it far in advance. I also didn’t mention perks like paid 6 weeks of paternity leave because it’s conditional (3 months if you are a mom).
Regarding job security, I definitely would have agreed pre-Covid. However, pandemic has created a huge staffing shortage. There is more work due to increased script volume, more vaccines coming out, Covid testing etc. and less staff (more boomers retiring and less pharmacy students enrolled). And, I work at a busy store. Of course, anything is possible when you work for someone else, but my current job is as secure as it can be at the retail level. I don’t loose sleep over the job security anymore.
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It is a known fact in my area that retailers such as Walmart or Costco pay their RPh really well. So I am not surprised if some of their PIC get paid well above $80+/hr. However, where are they on the pay scale? Are those PIC making $80+/hr at the top of their pay scale or at the middle ? Also how often do they get a raise?
Most people are willing to take a pay cut when they leave retail. However, it is usually a one step backward so that you progress 4-5 steps forward in the future.
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Paternity Leave is not a unique perk anymore. Even Wag has like 8 weeks leave for both mom & dad since 2019. However, most people are only benefit from it 2-3 times in their entire lives.
There are definitely decent stores in the retail world. If you get those stores, it can be a blessing in the moment, but it can also be a curse for your career. One of my classmates got such a store not long after we graduated: 500+ rx per day, 2-3 senior techs with 15+ year exp each, 4-5 hours overlap every weekday, strong RXM, and everyone got a nice rotation just like yours. We all got jealous with her every time we met up "you get the best store in the area!". So while most of us were planning to leave retail, she planned to stay (of course). Well, until one day they got a new District Manager, who were eager to show his boss that he should be the one to get promoted. The new DM forced the current RXM to resign so that he can bring in his new RXM. They changed the schedule. The techs were so pissed...they left. Without strong techs, the pharmacy turned into a mess obviously. Luckily, my friend was able to get out just in time. However, she is now a few years behind us since she chooses to spend 7-8 years in retail instead of 4-5 years like most of us.
For me, there are only 3 career paths for retail:
1/ Start as retail and retire as retail
2/ Start as retail, get promoted to like DM, or Area/Regional pharmacy director, then lateral transfer out to similar management positions.
3/ Start as retail and get out ASAP
I didn't get hired by Costco so no #1 for me. I didn't plan to kiss a lot of a** so no #2 for me either. So #3 was my only choice lol.
You may think that you are working in the best pharmacy in you area, but I can affirm you that "you don't know what you have been missing out there" (in term of pay & benefits)
100%. That is what happened to my friends at Target. They had a low volume store with plenty of tech hours then suddenly Target sold its pharmacies to CVS. Good techs out. Target employee discount gone. Unrealistic metrics in. The rest is history.
Look at this from a big corp’s point of view. What does a 20 year CVS veteran offer that a 5 year doesn’t? There is really no financial incentive to pay the “dinosaurs” top dollars and give them plenty of PTOs. When there is a budget cut, they become a target.
I remember interviewing this 50 year pharmacist. HR doesn’t want to be accused of discrimination so they have us interview a range of candidates. I can see it in her eyes..she was so desperate to get out of retails. She was the president of a pharmacy sorority so I assume she had some personality and she could have gotten out sooner if she wanted to but she stayed in retails way too long. She was no longer competitive.
Let’s also be real. 75% of the jobs are in retails or retail like. The majority of pharmacists will just have to take it.
Look at this from a big corp’s point of view. What does a 20 year CVS veteran offer that a 5 year doesn’t? There is really no financial incentive to pay the “dinosaurs” top dollars and give them plenty of PTOs. When there is a budget cut, they become a target.
I remember interviewing this 50 year pharmacist. HR doesn’t want to be accused of discrimination so they have us interview a range of candidates. I can see it in her eyes..she was so desperate to get out of retails. She was the president of a pharmacy sorority so I assume she had some personality and she could have gotten out sooner if she wanted to but she stayed in retails way too long. She was no longer competitive.
Let’s also be real. 75% of the jobs are in retails or retail like. The majority of pharmacists will just have to take it.
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You’re saying a state’s board of pharmacy, made up of corporate shills, political donors, and an occasional member of the public, wouldn’t take advantage of a “staffing crisis” to enable/advocate for a “final product verification” tech to be created by statute?
Boards don’t care about pharmacists, ever. They treat us like petty shoplifters under the assumption of guilt first.
I think +$5-10/hr for a tech with independent product verification licensure…people will bite, especially with how cheap it is to enter those positions.
But I agree, more automation will take place. AI and cheaper technicians will relegate pharmacists to only the highest complexity clinical issues.
Any high school graduate can make $20/hr nowadays which is already close to what a starting pharmacist makes after adjusted for student loans and opportunity loss.
I don’t think a high school graduate is going to care that much about making mistakes, hurting someone and losing his tech license. If he does he can just go down the street and get another job. That is the mentality of most techs…they just don’t care. If they did they wouldn’t be working as a tech in a dead end career.
Pharmacists, on the other hand, have too much to loss to be careless. I also don’t see much saving from a big corp’s point of view. The techs I have worked with in retail are overweight, have medical issues and have multiple kids. Big corps are losing big bucks not because they are paying them big dollars but because they are a drain on health insurance expenses. That is why they are cutting tech hours. Ironic for a healthcare company.
So yeah..super techs won’t be the answer. Technologies, AI, automation will be.
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I am going to repeat what I have said before. There needs to be a vocational/technical type degree for dispensing pharmacists. Something in-between a Pharm.D and Reg.Pharm techs. You don't really need a Pharm.D. working at CVS!
This new degree can be obtained from Community Colleges and Vocational Schools with zero debt. Then that Pseudo-Pharmacist can afford to work for $30-35/hr. Many of the developed countries use this method with success. In many countries, Pharmacy is a 4-yr degree, out of high school.
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I'm curious how you came to this conclusion
250-300 k in student loans, 6-8 years of opportunity loss, high income tax
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I'm all for recognizing the profession's faults but this is just silly.
250-300k is on the high end for student loans. Even still, those loans are gone in 5-10 years at most if you're living on $20/hr and dedicating the rest to loan payments. That's also assuming $20 is actually common for a job with only high school education which is not the case.
$250-300 k is not on the high end. I know students who graduated with > $400 k nowadays. You won’t be able to pay it off in 5-10 years even if you eat just noodles all day. If interest rate is 7% and you owe $300 k = $21 k in interest, not including principle. Your only option is to pay it off over the next 20-25 years unless you qualify for PSLF. Whatever is left will then be “forgiven” but you need to pay tax on the forgiven amount.
This is tuition at my Alma mater. Living cost is not included.
You will be better off working after high school. You don’t have to spend 6-8 years in school for a doctorate degree. No crazy student loans debt. Plenty of opportunities for a high school graduate who is ambitious. If your spouse also makes a similar salary, you guys can make a combined $100 k with some overtime.
^ the above number doesn’t even include fees at USC which should add another $4 k/year. USC is a private school but tuition/fees at UCSD is $49 k a year
Just tuition alone is easily $180-250k at a private school in a HCOL state like California. Add to that the astronomical cost of living and you’ll exceed $300k.
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No, it is not. The average debt load for a graduate from the program where I used to work was $190k, and the median was quite a bit higher. Debt loads in the 300's were common, and one of the last exit interviews I performed was a poor bloke graduating with $560k in loans.
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Are you saying that private schools in HCOL states are not on the high end? Obviously the answer would be not to go there.
This reports the average pharmacy debt around 160-170.
I'd go out on a limb and say the person who borrows $250k+ for a degree that usually gets ~$120k salary would make similarly poor financial decisions without getting an advanced degree.
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Since when does Cost of Attendance not include the cost of living? Dang that sucks.
I echo what others are saying. Holding up the most extreme cases as representative of the norm is misleading. The truth is bad enough without the need to exaggerate imo.
Always take result from a survey with a huge gain of salt. Second, it doesn’t take into account family financial assistance.
Arizona is not a HCOL. Here is University of Arizona, a public school: $28,000/year tuition + fees
PharmD Tuition & Scholarships | R. Ken Coit College of Pharmacy
If you add living cost + undergrad debt + interest over the years = easily over $250 k
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Not wanting to leave your job because of the PTO benefits is probably one of the funniest things I've ever read.
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Agreed. If you're counting up the days you don't have to work as a reason to stay at your job, you don't like your job very much.
PS: All these people at hospitals starting at 27 days PTO: Are you including public holidays in that number, or is that 27 days PTO + holidays? I've worked in a lot of hospitals and never had anything that rich. I'm at 25 days PTO now, but I've got a dozen holidays on top of that. I have no additional sick days.
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Absolutely. Naturally it's much better to use personal anecdotes.
Sure, easy to rack up if you're planning on borrowing the full cost and not working while you're in school. Between financial aid and working through school you can keep student loans much more manageable.
I don’t think you realize how much tuition has gone up. It started to skyrocket in 2004 and even tho pharmacist salary has stagnated and even gone down, tuition still went up. You don’t have to take my words for it. Here is the tuition + fees for all the pharmacy schools.
Just eyeballing it, I would say the median is 25-30 k/year. So yes, graduating with $250-300 k is common. And for what? So you can make $125 k a year slaving away at CVS while paying high income tax? Hence, the low enrollment and low admissions standards
You are literally spending your prime years in school and taking a bunch of debt so you can work for Larry Merlo
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I went to a private school for both undergrad and my pharmd and graduated in 2019, I'm familiar with the current cost of education. My previous points still stand.
Your personal experience may be very different from other pharmacy students. The majority of pharmacy students don’t get financial aid or have time or opportunity to make a significant amount from working. My school didn’t even give out need based financial aid to graduate students. If tuition is ridiculously high, there is only so much you can do as a student. It is like trying to stop a flood with your barehands.
I don't need to love or enjoy my job. Job is simply a mean by which I achieve things in life that I do enjoy. As stated earlier, my current job is nowhere near as dramatically bad as being consistently stated in this thread.
On a stress scale, it’s 6/10 on a good day and 8/10 on a bad day. If it was anything like at cvs (9/10 on a good day and 11/10 on a usual day), I would look for a new job overnight.
Can it change? Sure. But who is to say this can’t happen outside of retail (hours cut, micromanaging boss, staffing shortage etc.)? Everyone here pretends as if these things are exclusive to certain setting. I value my personal freedom more than anything else.
Being a staff rph isn’t bad of a gig depending on situation. Just don’t be a manager and it’s doable.
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Literally not.
Prime earning years are typically in the 45 to 55 range. Almost nobody is making a lot of money during the years they would otherwise be in pharmacy school.
Here's the age at which you'll earn the most in your career
PayScale breaks down the median pay by age and gender for full-time workers with a Bachelor's degree so you can find out when in your lifetime you could make the most money.
If you mean prime years for playing sports or dating, well I guess that's a different discussion.
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Obviously. Which is why I've pushed back whenever someone brings up anecdotes. None of my prior points were based on personal experience and that one was only in response to your implying how much tuition changed since I was in school.
Literally not.
Prime earning years are typically in the 45 to 55 range. Almost nobody is making a lot of money during the years they would otherwise be in pharmacy school.
Here's the age at which you'll earn the most in your career
PayScale breaks down the median pay by age and gender for full-time workers with a Bachelor's degree so you can find out when in your lifetime you could make the most money.www.cnbc.com
If you mean prime years for playing sports or dating, well I guess that's a different discussion.
Who thinks your prime earning years are in your 20s?
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From your numbers: median cost should be somewhere around 120k for 4 years of pharmacy school tuition and fees. If you want to add undergrad in, there are ways to do it way cheaper: do it in 2 years at a public in-state university, apply for whatever financial aid you can, and work to pay for at least the majority of your living costs while in school. If you can also make interest payments on student loans that would be a huge benefit too. No need to be taking out $250k+ in loans.
Also, even if you end up with a pharmd and $250k in loans, I'm not sure you'd be worse off than a high school grad who had done nothing but worked for $20/hr since graduating. $250k at 7% interest would be paid off in 10 years at $2900/month.
$30 k a year is just tuition. You are not going to include living expenses?
7% interest rate turns your $30 k in first year into almost $40 k by end of your 4th year. That is how fast it grows.
It is basically math at this point. $250-300 k is not on the high end when tuition is outrageously high. It is rather common and expected.
Maybe you got financial aid. Maybe you lived at home. Maybe your parents subsidized your education. Not everyone has that luxury
