PhD PhD in Epidemiology: Can one get into a good PhD program in Epidemiology with just a bachelors?

[peanutbuttercup]

I am currently thinking about going to get my PhD in epidemiology, but I was wondering whether there are any good programs that accept students without a relevant masters degree.

STATS
Undergrad: BA in Molecular Biology and Biochemistry at a ranked private liberal arts college
Undergrad GPA: 3.40/4.00
GRE: V: 167, Q: 162, AWA: 4.0
Recs: I would have 4 recs, one from a WHO high-level officer who was my boss when I did an internship there, 2 from the PIs from my current job, and another rec from my old boss from my stem cell research job. Overall, pretty good recs
Others:

• Three years of experience doing research (not necessarily Epidemiological research, though) did clinical research and stem cell research
• One co-authored paper, another co-authored paper in the works in epidemiology, and two poster presentations
• I have a limited background in statistical analysis, took one statistics course in college, and my work does do some stuff with SPSS and I am familiar with the software

A lot of PhD in epidemiology programs explicitly state that they only accept candidates with a masters degree already (Columbia, UMich, BU), and some programs state that a masters degree is essential to being a competitive candidate. Additionally, some programs admit you to the PhD programs tell you that you would need to complete the masters level courses before starting the official doctoral program (Brown, UNC). However, some PhD programs don't say anything (Harvard, Yale, Emory). I'm wondering if anybody has had any experience with the application process for this program, and whether I should apply or not. Thoughts?

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[Mks93]

It really depends on your situation. You PROBABLY WON'T get into a good program, but it happens sometimes. You have to be a really strong candidate and truly show that you KNOW FOR SURE that Epi is your life. That can be hard to prove. For you, I think your GPA might be on the low side, unfortunately. How will your req's be?

I got an interview at Emory for the PhD program during my senior year of college. (Ended up not getting in) I actually majored in EPI and did a ton of relevant research and teaching. I got into a NY State school for Epi PhD, but was told by every other school I applied to that I could do their MS, but not PhD. (Pitt, UAlbany)

I would suggest applying to top schools for you MS or MPH and lower tier schools for the PhD. But honestly, I would suggest doing the masters first anyway, if you really do want to go to grad school. You might save some time and money going right to PhD, but I think the experience is worth it. Also--I was SO SURE that I wanted my PhD in epi. Now that I've started my masters program (at UW, where I applied to the masters program right off the bat), I think my mind has been changed. I love epi dearly, but I'm not sure I can actually do all of the school, at least for now. I need a break. I need to save some money and get some more work experience. I don't know how far out of college you are, but it's a HUGE commitment to launch into a program for 4-6 straight years after undergrad.

 

[peanutbuttercup]

It really depends on your situation. You PROBABLY WON'T get into a good program, but it happens sometimes. You have to be a really strong candidate and truly show that you KNOW FOR SURE that Epi is your life. That can be hard to prove. For you, I think your GPA might be on the low side, unfortunately. How will your req's be?

I got an interview at Emory for the PhD program during my senior year of college. (Ended up not getting in) I actually majored in EPI and did a ton of relevant research and teaching. I got into a NY State school for Epi PhD, but was told by every other school I applied to that I could do their MS, but not PhD. (Pitt, UAlbany)

I would suggest applying to top schools for you MS or MPH and lower tier schools for the PhD. But honestly, I would suggest doing the masters first anyway, if you really do want to go to grad school. You might save some time and money going right to PhD, but I think the experience is worth it. Also--I was SO SURE that I wanted my PhD in epi. Now that I've started my masters program (at UW, where I applied to the masters program right off the bat), I think my mind has been changed. I love epi dearly, but I'm not sure I can actually do all of the school, at least for now. I need a break. I need to save some money and get some more work experience. I don't know how far out of college you are, but it's a HUGE commitment to launch into a program for 4-6 straight years after undergrad.

I would have 4 recs, one from a WHO high-level officer who was my boss when I did an internship there, 2 from the PIs from my current job, and another rec from my old boss from my stem cell research job. Overall, pretty good recs.

When you applied straight out of undergrad, what were your stats?

 

[Stories]

You stats right off the bat won't stand out.

What school did you go to? If it's a top 5 (or so) you might have a better shot.

Focus writing your application based around you scientific experience in research and a clear understanding of research needs. This will show you have done your homework and know where work is needed.

You probably aren't the ideal candidate, but the worst that can happen is you might be out a few dollars for application fees and some time. If you know you want a PhD, go ahead and apply.

 

[Mks93]

You stats right off the bat won't stand out.

What school did you go to? If it's a top 5 (or so) you might have a better shot.

Focus writing your application based around you scientific experience in research and a clear understanding of research needs. This will show you have done your homework and know where work is needed.

You probably aren't the ideal candidate, but the worst that can happen is you might be out a few dollars for application fees and some time. If you know you want a PhD, go ahead and apply.

It's actually extremely expensive to apply to a bunch of schools. A "few dollars" isn't really accurate. It's hundreds.

 

[Mks93]

I would have 4 recs, one from a WHO high-level officer who was my boss when I did an internship there, 2 from the PIs from my current job, and another rec from my old boss from my stem cell research job. Overall, pretty good recs.

When you applied straight out of undergrad, what were your stats?

Undergrad school, mid-size private University
GPA 3.77, Major GPA (Epi was my major) 3.95 GRE scores not terribly high, I don't remember, but around 158??? for each section, 5 on writing (Yours are clearly way higher)
Experience as research assistant for a couple (epi-related) studies
Good reqs I assume, one from the chair of the Division of Epidemiology at my school (I worked with the chair as a teaching assistant and research assistant)
Public health teaching assistant experience (3 semesters)
Health research in India
Relevant internship
Other projects/ jobs at my school
Started undergraduate public health council
Completed an honors thesis (secondary data analysis, using data from a large cohort study I was involved with)
My application definitely reflected my love of epi/public health

Emory was the only "top" PhD program I applied to. Doing the masters program first was definitely a good decision for me.

 

[Stories]

It's actually extremely expensive to apply to a bunch of schools. A "few dollars" isn't really accurate. It's hundreds.

Sure hundreds could be a lot, but if OP gets into a PhD program, that could save him/her far more money plus a lot of time in the process (the opportunity cost of doing the MPH/MS first). Sure, it might not end up exactly as the OP would like, but in the bigger picture, it's a relatively low risk/high reward opportunity if the OP truly wants to pursue a PhD.

Of course, if the OP only has $500 in total, this could be an issue--but applying to any graduate programs could be an issue, not just PhD applications.

In my PhD program, two students came in with no master's program (cohort of 16). Had I been a bit more proactive about my research into graduate education (and not rushed into my MPH), I would have pursued this option. Of course, there is not counterfactual here since I did do a MPH first and there's no guarantee I would have been accepted to the PhD program. But it's always interesting to reflect upon our historical experiences.

Anyway, that's my point of view.

 

[Mks93]

Sure hundreds could be a lot, but if OP gets into a PhD program, that could save him/her far more money plus a lot of time in the process (the opportunity cost of doing the MPH/MS first). Sure, it might not end up exactly as the OP would like, but in the bigger picture, it's a relatively low risk/high reward opportunity if the OP truly wants to pursue a PhD.

Of course, if the OP only has $500 in total, this could be an issue--but applying to any graduate programs could be an issue, not just PhD applications.

In my PhD program, two students came in with no master's program (cohort of 16). Had I been a bit more proactive about my research into graduate education (and not rushed into my MPH), I would have pursued this option. Of course, there is not counterfactual here since I did do a MPH first and there's no guarantee I would have been accepted to the PhD program. But it's always interesting to reflect upon our historical experiences.

Anyway, that's my point of view.

I'm not sure how much I agree with you, but OP should do what's right for her.

 

[nycstdnt]

Hi! OP, this probably doesn't help but I applied to a PhD in Sociomedical Sciences and I'm in undergrad right now. GPA around a 3.8 from an Ivy with almost exactly same GREs. So, we'll see how I do! My position is I don't have the money to really do a master's so if i can get into a PhD right now, I'm doing that.

 

[smarcailTU]

I have a similar question. I have a BS degree with 2 years of work experience and I am applying to PhD and MS programs in epi. I applied to masters programs at Pittsburgh, Harvard, Hopkins and Emory. I also applied to PhD programs at Temple University and Rutgers.

My situation is the program at Temple is new which means it hasn't really been ranked and a lot of the professors are new hires. This means I think I have a good chance of getting in but might also hurt my resume in the long run if my graduate degree isn't from a top school. But it is a fully funded program I have been in touch with a mentor who is eager to work with me and is doing research that fits my interests. Is it better to get a Master's at a top school or to save money and time and go for a PhD at a school that is good and has a mentor who is doing interesting work and is willing to work with you?

For a lot of jobs I am wondering if a very respected MS degree might actually be accepted before a PhD degree.

 

[Stories]

I have a similar question. I have a BS degree with 2 years of work experience and I am applying to PhD and MS programs in epi. I applied to masters programs at Pittsburgh, Harvard, Hopkins and Emory. I also applied to PhD programs at Temple University and Rutgers.

My situation is the program at Temple is new which means it hasn't really been ranked and a lot of the professors are new hires. This means I think I have a good chance of getting in but might also hurt my resume in the long run if my graduate degree isn't from a top school. But it is a fully funded program I have been in touch with a mentor who is eager to work with me and is doing research that fits my interests. Is it better to get a Master's at a top school or to save money and time and go for a PhD at a school that is good and has a mentor who is doing interesting work and is willing to work with you?

For a lot of jobs I am wondering if a very respected MS degree might actually be accepted before a PhD degree.

I think this is a very personal matter and there's definitely not only one path. Here's my opinion:

1.) Look hard at the jobs you want. What degrees are needed? If a PhD is not needed (e.g. you're not interested in a faculty or research institute position), consider sticking to just a MS/MPH. Sounds like you're unsure whether or not you even need a PhD. If that's the case, I usually suggest not getting one. Most jobs don't require a PhD. There's a big time commitment. There's a opportunity cost to consider there. But, for certain types of positions, a doctorate is mandatory.

2.) Understand the fit of your interests to what connections and research the faculty do at the school you're interested in attending. Even if the overall school's ranking isn't high, if the school has a highly respected faculty member in a specific subfield that matches your interests, he/she can put you into touch with people that matter.

3.) If you are extremely ambitious and want jobs at only the most selective of companies, businesses, or government agencies, having the "elite" degrees will definitely be a big perception boost. A degree only won't make you become successful, though. Elite publications and success points will make you ultimately standout. You don't need a fancy degree to attain those successes. A good school could certainly make it easier to find projects or connections to make it easier, though. Nothing is ever guaranteed, so keep that in mind.