PhD + Kids

[ballpointpun]

Hello!

I had a question for anyone currently in a PhD program for social/developmental psych. I'm in my late twenties, I completed an MA degree in 2010 in psychoanalysis and contemporary society (which would not transfer credits to American schools), and after having three children, I'm looking back to my original goal, which was to work towards a PhD. I'm originally from the UK, where you bust into a PhD with your research ideas already somewhat formulated and can be done in 3 years. I did my bachelors in the US, however, and have lived here long enough to recognise PhD's here are nothing like that.

I'm considering applying for matriculation in Fall 2016, at which point my husband would work and I would hopefully return to school. I wondered if anyone would be willing to shed light on their weekly schedule. I would most likely not participate in student teaching (that qualified you for stipend), and would not teach more than requisite for the degree. I'm a driven individual, and not a particularly bad student, but I have hesitation to jump into a PhD if it's likely to take 6 years, and take me away from my family for drastic amounts of time.

I would appreciate any insight on this question. Thank you.

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[WisNeuro]

Here in the US we have to have our research ideas somewhat formulated at the outset as well. I had started on my masters project before day 1 and was expected to already have a tentative outline for dissertation.

As for a clinical PhD, the earliest I've ever seen someone do it from a reputable program is 4 years, and then you have a required 1 year internship. Most go one to at least 1 year fellowship after that. So, the PhD part will be 5 years most likely. You could have cut it down with a masters that transfers, but it seems that you can't transfer yours.

 

[ballpointpun]

Thank you. I'm looking more at a non-clinical programme, like social psych, which doesn't require internship I don't believe.
Thank you again

 

[WisNeuro]

Ah, in my experience (several friends in social and personality programs) it is still 4-6 years on average. Especially now, academia has only gotten more competitive, so most people I know build up a significant CV in grad school and still go on to do a 1-2 year postdoc to further beef it up before landing a professor job.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Non-clinical programs may save the year of clinical internship, but the initial degree will be at least four years and some will take longer. Whether or not someone then completes a fellowship or goes right for a faculty position is dependent on the program and individual, but that could add 1-2+ years.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Yep, what WisNeuro and T4C have said is also consistent with what folks from various other academic disciplines (including non-clinical/non-counseling/non-school psych) have experienced. Could many of them have finished in 4 years? Probably. However, most took 5-6, with some going the full 7 (max allowed at my program) due to wanting to shore up their CVs before hitting the job market. Many (although I wouldn't say most) then also went on to 1-3 year post-docs while continually looking for jobs.

 

[ballpointpun]

Thank you so much for all your insight, you've been most helpful. Truly.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Depending on program you gain admissions, most likely there will be other students with kids. Some programs are very accepting of students with kids. I was a single parent with a 21 and 11-year old sons. My oldest was in college and my youngest in the 6th grade. Most of my classes were evening classes and I worked full time days. My program was very supportive and some students would bring their older children to class with them.

It was difficult but I made it through and finished the program. I believe most universities have childcare on campus and some even have experimental/training schools on campus where student's children may attend school.

From my experience, children and family members grow and change and adapt to the process of graduate school.

Demands are high in graduate school and you will have to juggle time for practicum placements during 8-5 hours.

I think it would be easier being married with children but a number of the married students became divorced and some became remarried during the graduate school time period.

It took me 7 years but most finish in 5-6 years. It may only take 4 years for a social-developmental PhD.

 

[463951]

Depending on program you gain admissions, most likely there will be other students with kids. Some programs are very accepting of students with kids. I was a single parent with a 21 and 11-year old sons. My oldest was in college and my youngest in the 6th grade. Most of my classes were evening classes and I worked full time days. My program was very supportive and some students would bring their older children to class with them.

It was difficult but I made it through and finished the program. I believe most universities have childcare on campus and some even have experimental/training schools on campus where student's children may attend school.

From my experience, children and family members grow and change and adapt to the process of graduate school.

Demands are high in graduate school and you will have to juggle time for practicum placements during 8-5 hours.

I think it would be easier being married with children but a number of the married students became divorced and some became remarried during the graduate school time period.

OK, you are doing it again!! Maybe at your school the divorce rate is high, but don't generalize. Don't scare the OP. Also, bringing children to class isn't the way it works.

 

[WisNeuro]

The OP wants to go non-clinical, they wouldn't be doing practicum placements. In a social psych research program, they would likely not be able to work anywhere full-time in another job during the day. Social psych relies heavily on an undergrad research population, so they'd need to be on campus quite a bit. Also, their classes would likely be mixed throughout the daytime hours. They were few nightime classes in clinical, I was aware of none in social.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Uh... I said some and did not say many.

 

[463951]

Uh... I said some and did not say many.

but a number of the married students became divorced

this implies a lot in my mind...

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

The OP wants to go non-clinical, they wouldn't be doing practicum placements. In a social psych research program, they would likely not be able to work anywhere full-time in another job during the day. Social psych relies heavily on an undergrad research population, so they'd need to be on campus quite a bit. Also, their classes would likely be mixed throughout the daytime hours. They were few nightime classes in clinical, I was aware of none in social.

There were classes during the day but my schedule was to take evening classes and do practicum and work during daytime hours. Some developmental programs have practicum experiences but most social programs do teaching and research.

 

[erg923]

"Experimental/training schools...for your kids?!"

Nothing but the best, huh...

 

[WisNeuro]

Exactly, so working a full-time job would be difficult, if not impossible.

 

[ballpointpun]

My thoughts were to try and concentrate as much as possible on the PhD programme and hopefully finish within around 4 years (or at least be well vested in dissertation by that stage). My husband would work part time during that stage and we'd try to balance child care between us (all our children are young). I imagine that most of the classes would be day-time hours. Does anyone have any experience on how many hours they'd spend a day working on their programme (minus hours spent doing the TA style jobs required for stipends, which I won't be doing). I'm fortunate in that a divorce isn't on our marital cards so the above discussion will hopefully stay a non-issue for me!

 

[PsychPhDone]

I'm in clinical, and though I have friends in non-clinical fields, I don't feel comfortable speaking to amount of hours they work or years to completion. However, I would be sure to investigate whether you would still be eligible for tuition remission without also working as a TA/RA during graduate school. Also, depending on what you want to do with the degree after you're done, forgoing assistantships might not be helpful (unless you snag grant funding). Just saying.

 

[WisNeuro]

Good point, I just asked my social friend, their tuition remission was contingent upon RA/TAships.

 

[ballpointpun]

I expect to pay for tuition. The courses I'm looking at appear to include a certain amount of teaching as due course for the PhD, but I hear that if you're looking for tuition remission in the form of stipend, you also work enough hours teaching/grading/assisting to amount to a part time job. Please do correct me if this isn't remotely right.

 

[WisNeuro]

I spent about 10 hours a week teaching. Well worth the full tuition remission and 16k stipend on top of that. Not too mention full medical and dental insurance.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

From reviewing some of the PhD Social Developmental programs on the Internet, some have students get a MS in General-Experimental Psychology and then advanced to work on a PhD in a specialty area as in Cognitive, Social, and Developmental, or other related areas.

One of my friends obtained his PhD in Experimental - Social Psychology from the University of Oklahoma back in the 90's. He taught at a Junior College for some years but recently moved to England where his wife is from. He taught classes and was on a research team. He finished all of his courses but had problems with his dissertation as it had to be published as a graduation requirement. He did graduate several years after finishing all of his courses and he was ABD during that time. It took him ten years before actually having his PhD conferred but he was teaching at the junior college full time ABD until he finally graduated.

Most of these graduates work in Academia so teaching is heavily emphasized during their training.

I believe you have to be involved in teaching and research in these programs or it typically is required.

You need to check online the curriculum in these programs. Some of them have a heavily emphasized cultural ecological component.

 

[nessa34]

I'm not sure programs would let you pay your own way, although this would probably vary. Schools take pride in the fact that they fund 100% of their students. Also, this may or may not be accurate, but stating that you do not want to take on certain responsibilities, and would rather pay $40K(+) a year, may appear as a red flag that you are not committed to the phd. As wisneuro stated, teaching is a small part of the workload expected of a graduate student.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'm not sure programs would let you pay your own way, although this would probably vary. Schools take pride in the fact that they fund 100% of their students. Also, this may or may not be accurate, but stating that you do not want to take on certain responsibilities, and would rather pay $40K(+) a year, may appear as a red flag that you are not committed to the phd. As wisneuro stated, teaching is a small part of the workload expected of a graduate student.

I would agree. It seems to initially make sense that you could pay your own way, but there may be some regulation that prohibits them from letting graduate students do so, or (as nessa pointed out) they may simply not want to, as they then can't claim that all students are fully funded. Plus, the RA/TA duties are often considered part of the overall training experience.

 

[thewesternsky]

I agree with what has been said above about funding and TAships. They are often not optional.

I also wondered a bit about your career goals. The academic job market is terrible and will likely remain so for a long time. Most of my friends who have done Ph.D.s in cognitive psych, social psych, and developmental psych are stuck in a perpetual post-doc loop. That means taking temporary (usually contract) research positions that are contingent on grant funding and can range from 1-3 years (typically) in length. They move to their first post-doc, often across the country if not in a different country all together. At the end of a year or three, they move again to another lab (also usually some distance away) for another short-term research gig, and so on. While doing full-time research, they are also applying to faculty positions. If they are lucky enough to get a position (often after 3+ years on the post-doc treadmill), that requires yet another move.

If you're thinking about the academic route, keep that in mind. How geographically flexible are you and your family? And what would you do if you didn't get a job in academia, after several years of post-docs?

 

[Lisa44201]

As other people have stated, TA/RA positions may not be optional.

But to answer your original question: I arrive at my office no later than 7AM Monday through Friday. I am registered for 9 credit-hours this semester, but the majority of those are Thesis and research hours; I only actually sit for a class twice a week for an hour and a half on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I teach a night class on Monday nights as part of my TA duties. I have research from 4PM to 6PM Monday and Wednesday, and 4PM to 5PM Tuesdays and Thursdays; an undergrad in my mentor's lab helps with data collection, so I don't need to constantly be physically in the lab, but preparing the various papers that go into data collection takes about an hour a day. Mondays are my long days - 7AM to 9:30PM, thanks to that night class; the rest of the week, I'm on campus from 7AM to 5PM. I work straight through that time.

The PhD will take me four years, maybe 4 1/2. I came into the program with a Master's degree, but this program only allowed me to transfer in 9 credits from my previous program. I do not anticipate needing a post-doc, as I am currently employed in my field in addition to being a full-time student. I am very, very lucky in this regard - an office on campus happened to have a position available that required my particular skillset, and that position has turned into a career; had this not happened, I'd be uprooting the family (again) in two years for a post-doc.

 

[ballpointpun]

Thats again for your help. Your post was very helpful, Lisa44201