Physician LOR

[Palindr0me]

I searched the forums for about 20 minutes and looked through a few threads to find that there are mixed opinions about getting an LOR from a physician that either a) you have shadowed extensively, or b) someone that has mentored you along the way. I have also talked to multiple people about this outside SDN and everyone has a differing opinion on whether or not applicants benefit from having the LOR. What are your opinions...? Is it beneficial for allopathic schools if you have a physician LOR? I've already come to my own conclusion that medical schools would NOT want a letter from a physician that you have a student-mentor relationship with UNLESS they know your potential and aptitude in some way or another that is as in depth as let's say a professor, research PI, or volunteering coordinator.

What are your opinions?

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[youououa]

Good question - to expand, is having a letter from a physician-scientist important for MSTP applications?

 

[Dr. Retractor]

I searched the forums for about 20 minutes and looked through a few threads to find that there are mixed opinions about getting an LOR from a physician that either a) you have shadowed extensively, or b) someone that has mentored you along the way. I have also talked to multiple people about this outside SDN and everyone has a differing opinion on whether or not applicants benefit from having the LOR. What are your opinions...? Is it beneficial for allopathic schools if you have a physician LOR? I've already come to my own conclusion that medical schools would NOT want a letter from a physician that you have a student-mentor relationship with UNLESS they know your potential and aptitude in some way or another that is as in depth as let's say a professor, research PI, or volunteering coordinator.

What are your opinions?

That's pretty much it. I would add that it's okay to get a LOR from a physician you shadowed extensively if they know about your accomplishments outside of your shadowing them.

 

[SoonToBeDrG]

Hmm. Well this is all making my most recent LoR seem like a fat COI. I shadowed my former pediatrician for a few months and ended up getting an LoR, thinking her knowing me for so long would act as a benefit rather than a strong lack of student-mentor relationship. Hmm hmm hmm. Oh well!

 

[NickNaylor]

If the letter is from someone who knows you only from a shadowing context, I wouldn't recommend it (particularly if it's going to be one of your three "core" letters). Even if it isn't I wouldn't recommend it. What is a physician going to say about you in that context? You did a good job standing in the room? That's the whole problem with these letters.

If you also did something else more substantive (eg, research, a project, some kind of volunteering gig, etc.) then I'd say it would be worth it. Otherwise skip it. At best it'll be a letter that offers no useful information from an admissions context.

 

[Avicenna]

I heard it means nothing. Then i also heard from a guest speaker adcom that it was hugely important.
I just dont know what to believe anymore

 

[Palindr0me]

DAMNIT! Can any of the adcoms on SDN give opinion to this? @LizzyM & @Goro ...

What's kind of frustrating is that my closest friend thinks I'm ill-prepared if I don't have one. Talk about BS.

 

[Goro]

Based upon comments by the very sage gyngyn, MD LORs add little to the packet. A clinician LOR is necessary for DO schools, although some may require a DO LOR.

DAMNIT! Can any of the adcoms on SDN give opinion to this? @LizzyM & @Goro ...

What's kind of frustrating is that my closest friend thinks I'm ill-prepared if I don't have one. Talk about BS.

 

[LizzyM]

I've never seen an applicant get turned aside for lack of an MD LOR. I've seldom seen one that had a positive effect on the application. Mostly they seem like filler. YMMV -- I'm at a top tier school.

 

[gyngyn]

Physician letters are not helpful where I work.

They (we) seem to love everyone who asks for a letter. Since they are invariably positive (and the letter writer is often related to the applicant in some way) they are routinely disregarded as fluff, like a letter from your Mom.

A letter from a teacher or significant supervisor who happens to be a physician is another matter entirely. It has the same significance as a non-physician letter from a person with insight into your personal qualities and academic merit. This type of letter is rare.

 

[socialcriticism]

Can a letter from an MD/DO hurt you when given in the stead of a strong academic or research letter? What if we obtained the letter via scribing for the physician or some other clinical activity?

 

[gyngyn]

Can a letter from an MD/DO hurt you when given in the stead of a strong academic or research letter? What if we obtained the letter via scribing for the physician or some other clinical activity?

If there are a limited number of LOR's at a particular school and you use one on a fluff letter, it is less than optimal.

 

[mehc012]

Physician letters are not helpful where I work.

They (we) seem to love everyone who asks for a letter. Since they are invariably positive (and the letter writer is often related to the applicant in some way) they are routinely disregarded as fluff, like a letter from your Mom.

A letter from a teacher or significant supervisor who happens to be a physician is another matter entirely. It has the same significance as a non-physician letter from a person with insight into your personal qualities and academic merit. This type of letter is rare.

I swear, the last time I discussed this on SDN, I was told that my physician letter would be useless even though I work closely with them for 12hr shifts with them reading over my work constantly! I'm glad to hear at least some dissenting opinion here - I was quite dismayed that a letter from my supervising doc, with whom I've spent probably a few hundred hours working as a team, was apt to be set aside as fluff just because of the MD. I mean, I was going to turn it in anyway, because I hoped that the content would speak for itself despite that bias, but it's nice to hear less set-in-stone responses start popping up.

 

[Aerus]

I swear, the last time I discussed this on SDN, I was told that my physician letter would be useless even though I work closely with them for 12hr shifts with them reading over my work constantly! I'm glad to hear at least some dissenting opinion here - I was quite dismayed that a letter from my supervising doc, with whom I've spent probably a few hundred hours working as a team, was apt to be set aside as fluff just because of the MD. I mean, I was going to turn it in anyway, because I hoped that the content would speak for itself despite that bias, but it's nice to hear less set-in-stone responses start popping up.

Yeah, I don't think the fact that they are a physician automatically makes their LOR's useless. I think it's just that the vast majority of LOR's from them are from passive shadowing of a few days to a few weeks. With time, this advice that "Physician shadowing LOR's are useless" gets distorted to "All physician LOR's are useless".

 

[mehc012]

Yeah, I don't think the fact that they are a physician automatically makes their LOR's useless. I think it's just that the vast majority of LOR's from them are from passive shadowing of a few days to a few weeks. With time, this advice that "Physician shadowing LOR's are useless" gets distorted to "All physician LOR's are useless".

Oh, I would agree...but I have had multiple people on SDN, including adcoms, directly tell me that "physician LORs get ignored, even if you have a valid context, because there are so many cruddy fluffy ones that we tend to assume any given physician LORs is useless"

I think that's silly, and I'm glad to see that it's being presented as less of a blanket statement now.

 

[Shams al Deen]

Their importance must vary widely by school. One school I'm applying to requires a LOR from a physician. They say that they want insight into how you act in a clinical setting.

 

[gyngyn]

Their importance must vary widely by school. One school I'm applying to requires a LOR from a physician. They say that they want insight into how you act in a clinical setting.

University of AZ Phoenix requests a clinical letter, not specifically a physician letter.
Is it another school?

 

[gyngyn]

Oh, I would agree...but I have had multiple people on SDN, including adcoms, directly tell me that "physician LORs get ignored, even if you have a valid context, because there are so many cruddy fluffy ones that we tend to assume any given physician LORs is useless"

I think that's silly, and I'm glad to see that it's being presented as less of a blanket statement now.

It is true that Physician LOR's tend to be viewed as fluff and are generally disregarded. If the reader takes the time to evaluate the objectivity of the writer and the context of the interaction, there could be value in the rare substantive one.

 

[csx]

With all the talk of LOR's I've always wondered what's to stop someone from sending themselves the LOR to preread it if they use a service like interfolio?!

 

[DirkN]

Hey guys, I have a quick question.

If I just got an additional Physician Letter (to send to UofA), and I know it's strong, should I send it to all the schools I applied to, or just UofA? I already submitted a letter packet with 5 letters much earlier in the cycle.

I wouldn't want to delay the review process any further.

Thanks!

 

[mehc012]

With all the talk of LOR's I've always wondered what's to stop someone from sending themselves the LOR to preread it if they use a service like interfolio?!

Integrity.
Oh, and laziness/"didn't think of it"

 

[ridethecliche]

It depends on context and if they really know you. If someone writes you a letter strictly from your resume because that's all they know about you, it shows.

If they can speak about you from working with you over a long period of time, then that's different.

I have two physician LOR's, both from doctors that I have worked with for over a year. That's completely different than a shadowing experience. If you shadowed them for a couple of years and have actually gotten to know them and have helped with research projects etc, then that's entirely different.

As an aside: It is very common where I work for the physician to ask the student to write a letter for themselves and then the doctor will edit it and add to it before sending it over to whatever service is used. From what I understand, this is very common from this point onwards (i.e. residency, fellowship, etc.).