physician title?

[victor14]

can podiatrists be called physicians? are they primary care providers?

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[jonwill]

They are licensed as "Podiatric Physicians" for federal and state purposes. Pods are medical specialists. While some people come straight to them, the majority are referrals.

 

[victor14]

can they prescribe medication?

 

[jonwill]

Yes.

 

[IlizaRob]

can they prescribe medication?

I hope this isnt another one of "those" threads. But if you are being sincere, the answer is that pods have NO prescribing limitations. Now, if you prescribe viagra (like Dr. Feelgood is planning on doing for himself once he starts to practice) than you may be a victim of a lawsuit should anything go wrong.

 

[krabmas]

They are licensed as "Podiatric Physicians" for federal and state purposes. Pods are medical specialists. While some people come straight to them, the majority are referrals.

I can't believe you gave that a dignified response after the 15 page posting about whether or not we are physicians.

 

[victor14]

the reason i ask is because i am not to familiar with the field. thanks!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

the reason i ask is because i am not to familiar with the field. thanks!

We had a long debate on the issue so don't let them get to you.

Also, I can perscribe viagra, remember that some people refer to the male sexual organ as the third leg, therefore, it falls under the podiatric scope of practice.

 

[victor14]

We had a long debate on the issue so don't let them get to you.

Also, I can perscribe viagra, remember that some people refer to the male sexual organ as the third leg, therefore, it falls under the podiatric scope of practice.

haha

 

[victor14]

can someone explain this to me please

why cant a podiatrist be an MD with a foot and ankle speciality? why cant a dentist be an MD with a dental speciality?

they may be stupid questions, but i still dont the know the answers.

 

[jonwill]

Technically, that could be the case. Why isn't it that way? I have no idea. I will suggest that the podiatric medicine you see today is not the podiatric medicine of 50 years ago. Back in the day, they were glorified pedicurists! I don't think any MD students would have been interested in that! Orthopods have the option to do a foot and ankle fellowship after their regular residency but most don't. Surgically, those orthopods can do everything a podiatrist can do but medically, they usually don't (as far as wound care, soft tissue infections, etc).
Some people have suggested that, as podiatry has evolved to where it now is (medically/surgically), that it should be just another MD specialty. I do not forsee this happening anytime soon.

 

[doclm]

I think that it was stated way back in the days that Teeth and Feet would not be exclusive practices of MD's only. Why? I have no idea.

 

[ProZackMI]

can someone explain this to me please

why cant a podiatrist be an MD with a foot and ankle speciality? why cant a dentist be an MD with a dental speciality?

they may be stupid questions, but i still dont the know the answers.

I think in ALL states, a DPM is a physician just like an MD, DO, and in many cases, certain dentists. DPMs have full RxPs in all states and can Rx abx, narcotic pain meds, antiepileptics, neurotonin, etc. DPMs (usually those with surgical training) have hospital privis (admit, d/c, etc.).

Many dentists (usually oral-maxillofacial surgeons) have the same type of status as being physicians given the nature of their work.

As to why they are not MD or DO grads, it has to do with distinction from medicine early on. Podiatry (chiropody) and dentistry broke off from allo med a long time ago and created their own niche in the medical community. No MD can treat oral disease without also having a DDS, but an MD/DO (usually orthopods or surgeons) can treat a wide range of podiatric conditions.

Also, optometrists, general dentists, chiropractors, psychologists, veterinarians, naturopaths, PTs, and audiologists are NOT physicians and should never be considered a physician. Only MD, DO, DPM, and certain specialized dentists can be classified as a physician/surgeon.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

can someone explain this to me please

why cant a podiatrist be an MD with a foot and ankle speciality? why cant a dentist be an MD with a dental speciality?

they may be stupid questions, but i still dont the know the answers.

My thoughts are the history of the specialties separate the theory. For example, osteopathic schools study OMM; allopathic schools do not. In the advent of the DO theory, those schools were a schism. DPMs do not differ from MDs in theory but in advent. DPM as a true practice is very new. Anything new is looked at with caution. I also do not think that any of these practices will merge, they will remain separate. We is important is mutual respect and team work. That is the future of all medicine not the assimilation into MD programs.

 

[victor14]

i would personally love to see a DPM and DDS eventually join the MD world. it would make more sense.

 

[jonwill]

i would personally love to see a DPM and DDS eventually join the MD world. it would make more sense.

I guess I'm just not sure why it matters. Regardless of whether a podiatrist is a DPM or an MD, you're still going to be doing the same thing (medically and surgically managing the lower extremity). Nothing would change except the letters behind your name.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

i would personally love to see a DPM and DDS eventually join the MD world. it would make more sense.

Personally, I am on the opposite side of the coin. Which makes more sense, for a student to study 4 years of general medicine w/ 3-7 years of specialty residence OR a student to study 2 years of general medicine then 2 years of specific medicine and then 3-7 years of a specific residency. I think all areas of medicine would be better served w/ a longer specialize program. Think about a neurologist, what good is the 2 years of general rotations? Would they not better understand there are of expertise if the had 2 extra years in just neurologic pathology, anatomy, and surgery? I think that podiatry is actual a more advanced training form, NOW don’t miss quote me. I think that MDs are well trained (probably better than pods) but the basic form of the education program to me is less than podiatry or dentistry.

 

[IlizaRob]

I guess I'm just not sure why it matters. Regardless of whether a podiatrist is a DPM or an MD, you're still going to be doing the same thing (medically and surgically managing the lower extremity). Nothing would change except the letters behind your name.

Im with you. I dont see how letters behind someone's name would make them a better doctor. Its all about the training. Instead of changing DPM to MD, they should focus on increasing the quality of training, which they are currently doing with standardized residencies and more outside rotations in medicine.

 

[JustMyLuck]

Personally, I am on the opposite side of the coin. Which makes more sense, for a student to study 4 years of general medicine w/ 3-7 years of specialty residence OR a student to study 2 years of general medicine then 2 years of specific medicine and then 3-7 years of a specific residency. I think all areas of medicine would be better served w/ a longer specialize program. Think about a neurologist, what good is the 2 years of general rotations? Would they not better understand there are of expertise if the had 2 extra years in just neurologic pathology, anatomy, and surgery? I think that podiatry is actual a more advanced training form, NOW don’t miss quote me. I think that MDs are well trained (probably better than pods) but the basic form of the education program to me is less than podiatry or dentistry.

It would be interesting if all medical specialties were like podiatry, and you had a different degree for each specialty. Doctor of Cardiac Medicine - DCM? Haha. But really it would make sense. If someone knew they wanted to be a cardiologist right from the start, wouldn't it make sense to skip the psyc and ortho rotations and spend that time getting additional training in their chosen specialty? Interesting point.

 

[jonwill]

It would be interesting if all medical specialties were like podiatry, and you had a different degree for each specialty. Doctor of Cardiac Medicine - DCM? Haha. But really it would make sense. If someone knew they wanted to be a cardiologist right from the start, wouldn't it make sense to skip the psyc and ortho rotations and spend that time getting additional training in their chosen specialty? Interesting point.

Point well taken but on the other hand, I have numberous friends that started in MD programs wanting to do one thing and totally changed their mind after rotations. For instance, I have a friend that started thinking that he wanted to be a pediatrician. He is now a first year neurosurgery resident! So, the MD curriculum does serve a purpose.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Point well taken but on the other hand, I have numberous friends that started in MD programs wanting to do one thing and totally changed their mind after rotations. For instance, I have a friend that started thinking that he wanted to be a pediatrician. He is now a first year neurosurgery resident! So, the MD curriculum does serve a purpose.

I agree w/ the versatility that the MD/DO route providers, but I think that in a world of specializing meds it is interesting to look at the DPM approach. It will never happen though.

 

[billclinton]

can podiatrists be called physicians? are they primary care providers?

no. no. Although in a few states they are considered to be a type of physician for insurance billing purposes, the general and professional population only consider MDs/DOs to be physicians. Podiatrists are considered to be highly trained professionals (doctor of podiatric medicine) specializing in the foot and ankle. It is a thin line.

The very definition of a primary care provider states that they are a physician who deals with the health concerns of the entire body (unspecialized or specialized in FP, IM, OBGYN, peds). Podiatrists are only allowed to deal with health concerns dealing specifically with the foot and ankle (limited by their training and the law).

I think the primary reason the teeth and feet are not medical specialities is because historically these are areas that physicians did not want to go into... they are mostly secondary concerns after the major health concerns.

However, if you have an interest in the foot and in helping people, podiatry may be the field for you. It offers a good, stable job... providing you are in an area with less orthopods (which should not be all that hard to find). Just don't expect the world to consider you a physician or to hold you to the same level of physicians.... It may change in the future, but as of today this is how it is.

 

[victor14]

i live in LA so im sure there are plenty of orthopods

 

[psionic_blast]

no. no. Although in a few states they are considered to be a type of physician for insurance billing purposes, the general and professional population only consider MDs/DOs to be physicians. Podiatrists are considered to be highly trained professionals (doctor of podiatric medicine) specializing in the foot and ankle. It is a thin line.

The very definition of a primary care provider states that they are a physician who deals with the health concerns of the entire body (unspecialized or specialized in FP, IM, OBGYN, peds). Podiatrists are only allowed to deal with health concerns dealing specifically with the foot and ankle (limited by their training and the law).

I think the primary reason the teeth and feet are not medical specialities is because historically these are areas that physicians did not want to go into... they are mostly secondary concerns after the major health concerns.

However, if you have an interest in the foot and in helping people, podiatry may be the field for you. It offers a good, stable job... providing you are in an area with less orthopods (which should not be all that hard to find). Just don't expect the world to consider you a physician or to hold you to the same level of physicians.... It may change in the future, but as of today this is how it is.

It just bill's opinion, he starts a poll and shuts it down because the votes increase for pod as physician, I would not listen to him. He is deceptive and tries to manipulate data, people like this can't be trusted. Sorry bill you have no credibility around here. By the way what makes you the authority on this subject, what a hack.

 

[billclinton]

It just bill's opinion, he starts a poll and shuts it down because the votes increase for pod as physician, I would not listen to him. He is deceptive and tries to manipulate data, people like this can't be trusted. Sorry bill you have no credibility around here. By the way what makes you the authority on this subject, what a hack.

if u go back and check, the poll was open for the maximal time that SDN allows.

 

[jonwill]

if u go back and check, the poll was open for the maximal time that SDN allows.

Opinions are opinions. By LAW, pods are considered "Podiatric Physicians". That is a FACT. Now, is physician vs podiatric physician the same thing? Bill is right, it is a thin line. As long as we can admit, write prescriptions, and have surgical priviliges, I don't really care. I would consider that to be more than a "highly trained professional" as none of them have those priviliges. As I have been in many hospitals, I can attest that we are treated with the same level of respect as every other doc. At least, this has been my experience. I think it's wrong to state that "pods have work where there aren't a lot of orthopods". In general, orthopods don't do feet at all. The training they do get many times comes from podiatric physicians.

Below is how it is listed in the state law where I currently live. As far as "the world" goes, they have no clue what the difference is. Hey BILL!!!

5 19 1A. Podiatric physician means a physician or surgeon
5 20 licensed under this chapter to engage in the practice of
5 21 podiatric medicine and surgery.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Here we go again.

 

[jonwill]

Here we go again.

Oh come on, you know you love it. Just stick to the facts! You can't argue those.

 

[krabmas]

I knew it was only a matter of time before billclinton sniffed out this thread. I can't believe he waited so long.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I knew it was only a matter of time before billclinton sniffed out this thread. I can't believe he waited so long.

He's like herpes, the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[billclinton]

Opinions are opinions. By LAW, pods are considered "Podiatric Physicians". That is a FACT. Now, is physician vs podiatric physician the same thing? Bill is right, it is a thin line. As long as we can admit, write prescriptions, and have surgical priviliges, I don't really care. I would consider that to be more than a "highly trained professional" as none of them have those priviliges. As I have been in many hospitals, I can attest that we are treated with the same level of respect as every other doc. At least, this has been my experience. I think it's wrong to state that "pods have work where there aren't a lot of orthopods". In general, orthopods don't do feet at all. The training they do get many times comes from podiatric physicians.

Below is how it is listed in the state law where I currently live. As far as "the world" goes, they have no clue what the difference is. Hey BILL!!!

5 19 1A. Podiatric physician means a physician or surgeon
5 20 licensed under this chapter to engage in the practice of
5 21 podiatric medicine and surgery.

do you have a source for this? or a name... or a state? i would imagine you would get the same respect. i know that i respect everybody who works with me. only arrogant jerks would be mean to someone else's face. when you were work with a team of professionals, be it pharmacists, podiatrists, generalists, physical therapists, it is always best to treat them better than you expect to be treated. Now if you were to ask them for a candid answer regarding how they define "physician" you might get some surprising responses. Anyways, podiatric physician and physician are 2 different things.

 

[jonwill]

do you have a source for this? or a name... or a state? i would imagine you would get the same respect. i know that i respect everybody who works with me. only arrogant jerks would be mean to someone else's face. when you were work with a team of professionals, be it pharmacists, podiatrists, generalists, physical therapists, it is always best to treat them better than you expect to be treated. Now if you were to ask them for a candid answer regarding how they define "physician" you might get some surprising responses. Anyways, podiatric physician and physician are 2 different things.

Yes. That is Iowa state law HF 110. The wording is similar to that of most states. What??? There are arrogant jerks in medicine?
You've got to admit that calling pods "highly trained professionals" is a bit of a stretch. I am unaware of any "professionals" (I assume you mean optomitrists, physical therapists, pharmacists, etc) that have our medical and surgical priviliges, nor are they medical staff at hospitals (correct me if I am wrong).

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Anyways, podiatric physician and physician are 2 different things.

Doesn't this sound weird? It's like saying a cake donut is not a donut only glazed donuts are donuts. UMMMMM donuts UGGHHHHHHH

Only podiatric physicians aren't physicians only physicians are physicians. If podiatric physicians were physicians, they would have physician in their name somewhere like an orthopedic physician or a family physician. I just don't see where we get off calling a podiatric physican a physician. They aren't even close to being the same thing.

 

[jonwill]

Doesn't this sound weird? It's like saying a cake donut is not a donut only glazed donuts are donuts. UMMMMM donuts UGGHHHHHHH

Only podiatric physicians aren't physicians only physicians are physicians. If podiatric physicians were physicians, they would have physician in their name somewhere like an orthopedic physician or a family physician. I just don't see where we get off calling a podiatric physican a physician. They aren't even close to being the same thing.

Quit trying to confuse me Feelgood!

 

[IlizaRob]

do you have a source for this? or a name... or a state? i would imagine you would get the same respect. i know that i respect everybody who works with me. only arrogant jerks would be mean to someone else's face. when you were work with a team of professionals, be it pharmacists, podiatrists, generalists, physical therapists, it is always best to treat them better than you expect to be treated. Now if you were to ask them for a candid answer regarding how they define "physician" you might get some surprising responses. Anyways, podiatric physician and physician are 2 different things.

YEEEES!!!! I knew Bill would come back once this can of worms was reopened. Good work guys, good work. Afterall, what is an annonymous-bias-by people who could be no more than a garbage man for all we know-SDN discussion without Bill? I love it.

 

[goodb29]

DPMs have pretty wide prescribing authority in most states but some states are pretty restrictive to the foot or pain relief meds. In some states DPMs can perform extensive foot surgery with additonal training.

 

[chris03333]

veterinarians, naturopaths, PTs, and audiologists are NOT physicians and should never be considered a physician. Only MD, DO, DPM, and certain specialized dentists can be classified as a physician/surgeon.

Hello from the Veterinary Medicine world. Off subject but since it was brought up, I would like to say that I agree that veterinarians should not be considered physicians, as the word "physician" is associated with human medicine. However Veterinary Surgeons ARE in fact surgeons which have to do all the same intern/residency training and become board certified in Veterinary surgery. The only distinction is that their patients are not human. This is why we refer to them as "Veterinary" surgeons.
As for the rest of this topic, I can't be of much help

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Hello from the Veterinary Medicine world. Off subject but since it was brought up, I would like to say that I agree that veterinarians should not be considered physicians, as the word "physician" is associated with human medicine. However Veterinary Surgeons ARE in fact surgeons which have to do all the same intern/residency training and become board certified in Veterinary surgery. The only distinction is that their patients are not human. This is why we refer to them as "Veterinary" surgeons.
As for the rest of this topic, I can't be of much help

Welcome to our friend from the land of puppies and kitties. I wish we could knock out our difficult paitents like vets do.

 

[chris03333]

Welcome to our friend from the land of puppies and kitties. I wish we could knock out our difficult paitents like vets do.

Yes that does help with the difficult patients. It is interesting though when you have clients(owners) tell you, "Oh that won't be necessary he just acts mean but won't (bite, kick, scratch...whatever animal you are dealing with)" hahaha well if you want me to do my job he's getting the drugs.

 

[whiskers]

Well, I'm content with being called a podiatrist. I attend a podiatry school, not a medical school.

Although I'm proud of my profession in many regards, I don't consider my school to be at the same level as the Iowa, Arizona, Chicago or Temple podiatric medical programs (all to different degrees).

Those students, in my opinion, if any, are the real medical students in the podiatry education process.... As for me, I'm just a podiatry student.... and I KNOW that... And there is a big difference.

In my opinion, my school is an old-fashioned, non progressive podiatry school who doesn't seem to give a poo about their students or the quality of education they peddle.

Another opinion that I have is that maybe it's time that some of the schools run their ships more like educational institutions and less like personal empires and businesses.

Podiatry doesn't need degree mills.... but they do need more genuine academic institutions which invest (time and money) heavily in their academic programs and more so into the knowledge of those they are ENTRUSTED to teach the trade.... The students.

 

[doclm]

Well, I'm content with being called a podiatrist. I attend a podiatry school, not a medical school.

Although I'm proud of my profession in many regards, I don't consider my school to be at the same level as the Iowa, Arizona, Chicago or Temple podiatric medical programs (all to different degrees).

Those students, in my opinion, if any, are the real medical students in the podiatry education process.... As for me, I'm just a podiatry student.... and I KNOW that... And there is a big difference.

In my opinion, my school is an old-fashioned, non progressive podiatry school who doesn't seem to give a poo about their students or the quality of education they peddle.

Another opinion that I have is that maybe it's time that some of the schools run their ships more like educational institutions and less like personal empires and businesses.

Podiatry doesn't need degree mills.... but they do need more genuine academic institutions which invest (time and money) heavily in their academic programs and more so into the knowledge of those they are ENTRUSTED to teach the trade.... The students.

Totally Agree

Sorry to hear about your school being that way. I apoligize for being rude about anything. I was not sure if you were a student of Podiatry or not.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[jonwill]

Totally Agree

Sorry to hear about your school being that way. I apoligize for being rude about anything. I was not sure if you were a student of Podiatry or not.

Thanks for your feedback.

If you've followed whiskers, you know that he/she has VERY thick skin!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Well, I'm content with being called a podiatrist. I attend a podiatry school, not a medical school.

Although I'm proud of my profession in many regards, I don't consider my school to be at the same level as the Iowa, Arizona, Chicago or Temple podiatric medical programs (all to different degrees).

Those students, in my opinion, if any, are the real medical students in the podiatry education process.... As for me, I'm just a podiatry student.... and I KNOW that... And there is a big difference.

In my opinion, my school is an old-fashioned, non progressive podiatry school who doesn't seem to give a poo about their students or the quality of education they peddle.

Another opinion that I have is that maybe it's time that some of the schools run their ships more like educational institutions and less like personal empires and businesses.

Podiatry doesn't need degree mills.... but they do need more genuine academic institutions which invest (time and money) heavily in their academic programs and more so into the knowledge of those they are ENTRUSTED to teach the trade.... The students.

Well stated.

 

[capo]

Well, I'm content with being called a podiatrist. I attend a podiatry school, not a medical school.

Although I'm proud of my profession in many regards, I don't consider my school to be at the same level as the Iowa, Arizona, Chicago or Temple podiatric medical programs (all to different degrees).

Those students, in my opinion, if any, are the real medical students in the podiatry education process.... As for me, I'm just a podiatry student.... and I KNOW that... And there is a big difference.

In my opinion, my school is an old-fashioned, non progressive podiatry school who doesn't seem to give a poo about their students or the quality of education they peddle.

Another opinion that I have is that maybe it's time that some of the schools run their ships more like educational institutions and less like personal empires and businesses.

Podiatry doesn't need degree mills.... but they do need more genuine academic institutions which invest (time and money) heavily in their academic programs and more so into the knowledge of those they are ENTRUSTED to teach the trade.... The students.

Therefore it's got to be either one of four? Multiple choice question like the MCAT. Is it:

A) Ohio
B) Cali
C) NY
D) Barry
E) None of the above, I'm NOT in school anymore. Haha.

OK, the "exam" begins. NO talking! Hehe.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I'm going w/ A or B.

 

[doclm]

Therefore it's got to be either one of four? Multiple choice question like the MCAT. Is it:

A) Ohio
B) Cali
C) NY
D) Barry
E) None of the above, I'm NOT in school anymore. Haha.

OK, the "exam" begins. NO talking! Hehe.

My final answer will have to be A.- OHIO

 

[DrBMX]

After 15 pages debate...this is another official definition from AMA.

---------------
What is the difference between a physician and a doctor?

A physician is an MD or DO (see above). Many people also refer to physicians informally as doctors, eg., "Doctor Smith." Strictly speaking, however, anyone with a doctorate degree (eg., PhD, EdD, PharmD [pharmacist], or DDS [dentist]) is a doctor as well.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/3627.html

 

[jonwill]

After 15 pages debate...this is another official definition from AMA.

---------------
What is the difference between a physician and a doctor?

A physician is an MD or DO (see above). Many people also refer to physicians informally as doctors, eg., "Doctor Smith." Strictly speaking, however, anyone with a doctorate degree (eg., PhD, EdD, PharmD [pharmacist], or DDS [dentist]) is a doctor as well.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/3627.html

Podiatric Physician by most definitions these days (as we receive not a doctorate of medicine, but a doctorate of podiatric medicine so it makes sense). I'm willing to bet it is just a matter of time before the AMA changes that definition to include DPM's, as other entities already have.
I noticed that you are new to the network. Welcome to the land of opinions, insecurities, half-truths, mindless babble, and sometimes useful information that is SDN!!!