Physicians Assistant?

[AMR7944]

Hi I got some great advice earlier of other health professions and found a PA is something I would probably like more because of the shorter hours a week.

If anyone has any advice on how to become one that would be great. All the websites I looked at didn't give me much information on how or what to major in in college or if med school is a necessity. Please let me know anything you know about being a PA.

Thank you.

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[smarttee88]

Hi I got some great advice earlier of other health professions and found a PA is something I would probably like more because of the shorter hours a week.

If anyone has any advice on how to become one that would be great. All the websites I looked at didn't give me much information on how or what to major in in college or if med school is a necessity. Please let me know anything you know about being a PA.

Thank you.

Google Physician Assistant forum. I don't think I can give the specific address here.

 

[EMS5]

Yeah, one of the mods should move this to the clinician rn/pa/np forum. Until that happens I'll give you my insight (I was originally a PA major before I decided on medicine)

Most of the PA programs in the country are M.S. degrees, although a few are still offering the bachelors in PA studies. My school has currently offers the bachelors program, however will be transitioning into a masters program in the next few years.

The PA program is similar to medical school in many aspects. It is on average, 2 years in length and covers much of the same core material in a shorter amount of time. Anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, pathophys, etc, and most of the same clerkships that medical students go through.

This website lists the programs that are currently accredited by ARC-PA:
http://www.arc-pa.org/acc_programs/

This website has plenty of information about the profession and what they do:
http://www.aapa.org/

I would definitely talk to a couple of PA's and docs and get opinions from both sides before deciding. Most of the PA's I know enjoy their work schedules and lifestyles, and a lot of the doctors I know love having PA's and see them as a valuable asset in healthcare.

 

[morning]

There are pros and cons to every profession. PA pros are obvious...good pay, ability to change specialty (in theory), less debt, shorter training time. The cons are not as obvious...PAs are often assigned the scutwork the doctor doesn't want to deal with. They might work hours the doctor doesn't want to work. They are more expendable. And, in my opinion, a possible glut is coming because NPs are in direct competition for midlevel jobs and NP programs are popping up like genital warts everywhere.

 

[sylvanthus]

"would probably like more because of the shorter hours a week."


No idea where you got this from. Check out www.physcianassistantforum.com

 

[chman]

Check out the PA forum that the above posted, I was considering PA, and it is a good forum.

Well, first off, major in whatever you want. Just do the necessary pre-reqs. PA school is competitive, you will need great grades. The hook though, is that a lot of PA schools require paid health care experience. You can get this as an EMT, CNA, etc. Some schools are more hard core than others. But again, check out that suggested forum because I found it very helpful at the time.

 

[orthomyxo]

1. Major in whatever you want.
2. Complete pre-reqs.
3. Take GRE (I think).
4. Apply to PA school through CASPA.
5. Get accepted.
6. Get MPAS.
7. ???
8. Profit

 

[NotAsking4Much]

There are pros and cons to every profession. PA pros are obvious...good pay, ability to change specialty (in theory), less debt, shorter training time. The cons are not as obvious...PAs are often assigned the scutwork the doctor doesn't want to deal with. They might work hours the doctor doesn't want to work. They are more expendable. And, in my opinion, a possible glut is coming because NPs are in direct competition for midlevel jobs and NP programs are popping up like genital warts everywhere.

I humbly disagree. If you look at any type of "best jobs for the next 10 year rankings" by MSNBC, Forbes, etc. PA rank up there. They will inevitably fill the void right now in health care from the lack of primary care specialists, and at a much lower cost.

In primary care, they can do 90% of what doctors can with less schooling, debt, and more flexible specialties. There are less finger-pointing from malpractice insurance as much as loads of other benefits.

Cons...you can see patients, take care of them, but you ultimately will report to someone. You're not your own boss so to speak. You do need a lot of hours of healthcare experience. PA schools on average need 1000. My undergrad's PA school needs 3000 before you can even apply.

It's no doubt a great profession, and it's awesome for people who want to take care of patients but not have to make the same sacrifices as what a doctor would have to.

 

[morning]

I humbly disagree. If you look at any type of "best jobs for the next 10 year rankings" by MSNBC, Forbes, etc. PA rank up there. They will inevitably fill the void right now in health care from the lack of primary care specialists, and at a much lower cost.

In primary care, they can do 90% of what doctors can with less schooling, debt, and more flexible specialties. There are less finger-pointing from malpractice insurance as much as loads of other benefits.

Cons...you can see patients, take care of them, but you ultimately will report to someone. You're not your own boss so to speak. You do need a lot of hours of healthcare experience. PA schools on average need 1000. My undergrad's PA school needs 3000 before you can even apply.

It's no doubt a great profession, and it's awesome for people who want to take care of patients but not have to make the same sacrifices as what a doctor would have to.

A lot of places also think nursing is an excellent career choice with a "guaranteed job right out of college!" but in actuality many hospitals have hiring freezes and it can be extremely difficult to find a job. Many people went into nursing because they heard it was a sure bet, and some of those people are now doing NP programs (with no experience, I might add) in order to get that Sure Bet they were promised.

Don't trust a layperson's article on what is going on in healthcare. An MSNBC writer is probably as qualified to talk about the best healthcare jobs as I am. It's all copy anyway.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Hi I got some great advice earlier of other health professions and found a PA is something I would probably like more because of the shorter hours a week.

If anyone has any advice on how to become one that would be great. All the websites I looked at didn't give me much information on how or what to major in in college or if med school is a necessity. Please let me know anything you know about being a PA.

Thank you.

I've wanted to be a doctor for quite some time, but being a non-trad with previous healthcare experience the PA route has loomed large in my considerations for back to school adventures. I've debated it rather heavily and at times seemed destined for the PA path. However, some of the prereqs I need for either path are the same thus given my long standing desire to become a doctor I'm going to shoot for that goal. I'm in a position for it in life and am so for a lot of reasons. If I can't get there then I can shoot for PA. This is also not seen as second best since several PAs on the forums have stated that if given the opportunity in their past they'd redo life and go physician rather than physician assistant. I think when one becomes a professional there's a desire to become the best and most knowledgeable you can be. I've certainly experienced that in my job.

For most PA programs you're going to need some measure of medical experience as a paramedic, RN, RT, or some other field is common. The hours required by the schools again depend on the program, but some seem to require thousands of hours, i.e. years, of experience. You'll also need good grades and likely good scores on the GRE. There is also a list of prereqs that aren't a blanket requirement like medical school. They vary quite heavily and anatomy/physiology, microbiology, chemistries, and behavioral science courses are often required. Some programs don't "require" any healthcare experience. It's very situational at times. Check out the forum on SDN for PAs and check out the physician assistant forums.

 

[foofish]

Cons...you can see patients, take care of them, but you ultimately will report to someone. You're not your own boss so to speak. You do need a lot of hours of healthcare experience. PA schools on average need 1000. My undergrad's PA school needs 3000 before you can even apply.

It's no doubt a great profession, and it's awesome for people who want to take care of patients but not have to make the same sacrifices as what a doctor would have to.

From the MD perspective, I've heard PAs referred to as essentially being an intern for life for the same reasons bolded above. Clearly, the terrifying things about intern year go away with experience, but the scut work and fact that you're not your own boss remains. I've met a lot of PAs who love their job, but I've also worked with a few who have regretted their choice and would have gone the MD route if they had a 'do-over', and the reason they would change would be over the level of responsibility. I've seen PAs who similarly work ridiculous hours, so I wouldn't pick PA over MD just for that reason. So I think if you're someone for whom making the final decisions and having final responsibility is appealing or important, an MD is the better route. If those are things you're less interested in or adverse to, being a PA is a great choice.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

From the MD perspective, I've heard PAs referred to as essentially being an intern for life for the same reasons bolded above. Clearly, the terrifying things about intern year go away with experience, but the scut work and fact that you're not your own boss remains. I've met a lot of PAs who love their job, but I've also worked with a few who have regretted their choice and would have gone the MD route if they had a 'do-over', and the reason they would change would be over the level of responsibility. I've seen PAs who similarly work ridiculous hours, so I wouldn't pick PA over MD just for that reason. So I think if you're someone for whom making the final decisions and having final responsibility is appealing or important, an MD is the better route. If those are things you're less interested in or adverse to, being a PA is a great choice.

What do you call scut work? It's all tasks that need to get done, and do you feel too proud to pitch in and do anything needed?

 

[NotAsking4Much]

What do you call scut work? It's all tasks that need to get done, and do you feel too proud to pitch in and do anything needed?

I mean if you're a doctor, you probably wouldn't want to be changing urine-stained bed linens right? There is an issue of pride.

If you have your heart set on seeing and treating patients but don't want to make the chronological and financial sacrifices doctors often have to, being a PA is great.

This comes from experience with family members in both fields (PA and physician).

 

[morning]

What do you call scut work? It's all tasks that need to get done, and do you feel too proud to pitch in and do anything needed?

One PA on the PA forums (or maybe it was here on SDN in the clinician forums, I can't remember) said this and from what I hear it's pretty apt...if a PA and a physician are working an emergency department and two patients come in at the same time, one a likely heart attack and the other a baby with a runny nose, the PA gets the baby and the doctor gets the heart attack patient.

Some people would prefer to see the most and do the most.

 

[gerrybrown82]

in small hospitals PA's are pretty much the doctors.....ive seen a PA work a code one time and no MD's were present........so if your plans are to be in a small hospital......go for it......


in bigger hospitals ......PA's are pretty much NURSES.........they cant really do anything but treat colds and they still have to have the doctors sign off on everything.....its a complete waste of time to be a PA in a big hospital unless your just in it for the money....

Also if someone calls you doctor......you are required by law to tell them that you are NOT A DOCTOR....which i would get tired of doing over and over my career.... just some things to think about

 

[MossPoh]

in small hospitals PA's are pretty much the doctors.....ive seen a PA work a code one time and no MD's were present........so if your plans are to be in a small hospital......go for it......

Working a code is relatively easy and is by no means what defines a physician over other areas. The most important part of a code isn't what you do but knowing how to manage the team efficiently and keeping everyone's adrenaline in check. If you're a solid leader then it doesn't matter whether you're a nurse, PA, NP or doctor with that one. Hell, I'd put my money on most ICU nurses before many docs.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

One PA on the PA forums (or maybe it was here on SDN in the clinician forums, I can't remember) said this and from what I hear it's pretty apt...if a PA and a physician are working an emergency department and two patients come in at the same time, one a likely heart attack and the other a baby with a runny nose, the PA gets the baby and the doctor gets the heart attack patient.

Some people would prefer to see the most and do the most.

I'd much rather deal with the runny nose. Maybe I should be a PA, lol. I've done my share of heart attacks, and that's so algorithmic. All kidding aside, it's the everyday sickness stuff that interests me about medicine.

 

[foofish]

What do you call scut work? It's all tasks that need to get done, and do you feel too proud to pitch in and do anything needed?

No, that's an entirely separate issue. MDs who have their own practice often are doing what you call "scut work" (making appointments, filling out paperwork, scheduling appointments, hunting down labs), just as PAs at large hospitals often aren't doing basic scut either. How involved you are in a patient depends more on your personality and dedication rather than your job title...I've had fantastic attendings who happily do jobs often relegated to med students, just as I've seen PAs who haven't been willing to do any of it....and, of course, I've seen aloof/removed attendings and devoted PAs. And as far as the other poster who posted about changing bed linens, at least at my hospital system *neither* MDs nor PAs are doing that, the CNAs are.

How much of the legwork you do depends on your personality and job situation...if an MD wants to round on his own patients he will, and probably won't have a PA. Personally, I don't really mind doing a lot of so-called scut because at least at this point in my training, it helps me get a better understanding of the patient and/or what's going on...at the same time, even now as a med student there are times where I would definitely have handled situations differently than my attending but was overruled, and the idea of eventually *not* being overruled definitely has it's appeal.

My point wasn't about scut or pride, it was about whether or not at the end of the day you're answering to yourself or to someone else in terms of final decisions.

 

[jake2]

What do you call scut work? It's all tasks that need to get done, and do you feel too proud to pitch in and do anything needed?

Paperwork. In general, in academic medicine, interns do most of the work nobody else wants to do: writing discharge summaries, repeating 4-page long discharge summaries along into a telephone for some legal reason nobody understands, writing orders, coordinating consults, following up laboratory tests. Essentially, being a glorified secretary. This is done in exchange for knowledge learned in the intern year (you learn to make a lot of small day-to-day medical decisions) and so that your seniors don't have to worry about the small crap and can worry about learning how to solve real medical problems. When you are a senior, you get your own intern bitches. Attendings, in turn, get the services of residents in exchange for teaching and a pay cut compared to private practice attendings.

At the large academic center I work at, PAs=interns, and they stay that way. A PA who has worked 10 years does discharge summaries same as the intern who has worked 10 weeks. The difference? The get paid more than twice as much and work half the hours. That must make life pretty bearable...

 

[chman]

I think you guys should also consider the setting too. Obviously a PA in a private setting with the possibility of very little oversight does not do as much "scut work" as in a large hospital.

 

[chman]

Paperwork. In general, in academic medicine, interns do most of the work nobody else wants to do: writing discharge summaries, repeating 4-page long discharge summaries along into a telephone for some legal reason nobody understands, writing orders, coordinating consults, following up laboratory tests. Essentially, being a glorified secretary. This is done in exchange for knowledge learned in the intern year (you learn to make a lot of small day-to-day medical decisions) and so that your seniors don't have to worry about the small crap and can worry about learning how to solve real medical problems. When you are a senior, you get your own intern bitches. Attendings, in turn, get the services of residents in exchange for teaching and a pay cut compared to private practice attendings.

At the large academic center I work at, PAs=interns, and they stay that way. A PA who has worked 10 years does discharge summaries same as the intern who has worked 10 weeks. The difference? The get paid more than twice as much and work half the hours. That must make life pretty bearable...

So can doctors just tell the nurses what to write in the discharge summaries, or does a doc/PA have to write them? I'm just curious.

 

[foofish]

So can doctors just tell the nurses what to write in the discharge summaries, or does a doc/PA have to write them? I'm just curious.

At least at our system, a discharge summary has to be done by an MD/PA for legal purposes...I wouldn't be surprised if there's a billing reason as well. I think NPs can as well, but a regular nurse can't. It's one of the tasks we med students are banned from doing, although we can do the rest of the discharge paperwork (such as the summary/info given to the patient).

 

[jake2]

So can doctors just tell the nurses what to write in the discharge summaries, or does a doc/PA have to write them? I'm just curious.

There is a large... no... massive amount of paperwork that a doctor/PA is required to do. Often, this paperwork adds little or nothing to patient care. There are similarly a large variety of assinine tasks that need to be done by MDs/PAs. Senior doctors like having residents/PAs around to do this boring, tedious work for them so they can practice actual medicine.