PLEASE HELP: Do I need to take a gap year?

[screwedpremed999]

Thank you for all of your insight!

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[benlikeslizards]

I'm not the most qualified person in the world to answer your question (I'm applying this cycle too) but I would go for it, depending on your GPA and MCAT situation. From what I understand, having the experience and perspective of 1st gen/low SES is very valuable to become a doctor who can care for all people with empathy. I (and hopefully admissions comitties) am of the opinion that we need people like you to become doctors to show that becoming a doctor isn't some aristocratic thing that you only do if you have some inside link to medicine, it's something that anyone can do if they are willing to work for it. You seem just as qualified as the rest of us and that experience could set you apart and I think there are schools who will recruit you for your experience.

That said, I would look at your LizzyM score and if that's pretty low, you may need to wait a year, work hard in your classes to get that upward GPA trend and accumlulate some more ECs.

 

[JimKimSlim]

We really need your GPA and MCAT before we can comment on your possibility to getting into not only top 20 but also ANY US MD schools.

If you’re confident about your scores, I’d say aim for more clinical experiences (more the merrier). If top 20 is your goal, you will need more research and publications. However, if it’s because of financial reasons, it’s likely cheaper to go to your state school.

Finally, SDN population is not the most representative reflection of premed applicants. Use it as a guide but don’t compare yourself to others here.

 

[Goro]

Thank you so so much for this detailed insight! I was worried that being "disadvantaged" will actually hinder my chances because it may suggest to schools that they need to pay for my COA (which sometimes they are stingy about?)

Looking at my ECs and their current hours, do you advise I should take a gap year? My stats as of now are competitive enough for top-tier schools.

Low SES is a plus, not a minus.

Stats?

State of residence?

 

[screwedpremed999]

Low SES is a plus, not a minus.

Stats?

State of residence?

Hi @Goro ! Thank you for clarifying what SES means on an application-- I read somewhere that checking off "low SES" actually hurts because "medicine is for the elite," but I'm glad to hear that it doesn't.

 

[KnightDoc]

I’m just an applicant myself (and not a very successful one so far, unfortunately), so I don’t have all the answers, but I personally think your chances of getting an acceptance are a bit low without a gap year, especially at high-tier schools. When I applied this cycle, I had hours comparable to yours in a lot of areas, along with a 4.00 GPA and a 523 MCAT. I got a decent number of interviews (all except for one of which I believe went well), but I’m currently at the mercy of 5 WLs with no As. Maybe my writing was to blame (it wasn’t terrible, but it was a bit dry in hindsight), in which case, you could absolutely have much more success than I did assuming you write better essays. Even then, however, I don’t think it’s likely you could secure an acceptance at a top-tier school, but mid- to low-tiers are not out of the question.

Exactly why are you saying this? You received 6 IIs and are still in the game. If you end up being unsuccessful, why attribute it to lack of a gap year after being good enough to receive 6 IIs? FWIW, I think it's too soon to throw in the towel with your stats and 5 WLs. Maybe a month from now, but not the week before 4/15!

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro ! Thank you for clarifying what SES means on an application-- I read somewhere that checking off "low SES" actually hurts because "medicine is for the elite," but I'm glad to hear that it doesn't.

As of now, both my cGPA and sGPA are 3.95. I'm only a sophomore so I'm not sure what my MCAT will be yet, but I'm determined to study hard for it.

My state of residence is VA, and I have no ties to other states.

My gawd, did you read wrong!!!!

Those are valid points, thank you so much!
My expected contribution right now based on FAFSA is 0, so I'm not sure if cost is going to be a huge factor for me when choosing which medical schools to apply/matriculate

How many clinical hours do you think I should aim for? Do you think it's essential that I get a paid job in a clinical setting, or would it be okay if I keep volunteering at the free clinic and hospice? I don't want to spread myself out too thin...

And how much more in depth should I go with research-- is it true that I need to get published?

You should have

50+ hours shadowing
150+ patient contact experience. This can be paid or volunteer, doesn't matter which.
150+ service to others. That means nonclinical volunteering. The more, the better.
Research is good but not a requirement, expect for the major medical schools, like Harvard/Stanford class schools. . Publications are rare for UG students.

 

[KnightDoc]

You’re right in that I’m not out of the game yet, but my only realistic chances right now are at mid- and low-tier schools. I’m perfectly fine with going to one of these schools, but OP specifically stated that she wants to go to a top-tier school. I think that she (and I, in hindsight) would greatly benefit from a gap year since this is her goal.

Did you receive zero IIs from T20s? If not, you are correct about ECs. Your stats couldn't be any better, and, with all due respect, if your writing sucked, you wouldn't have had the 6 IIs, so I don't think it's that!

 

[screwedpremed999]

It’s fine! Sorry, I didn’t mean to throw myself a pity party in my initial comment lol.

I think that, for top-tier schools, you would be best served by getting more research experience. Therefore, I believe your plan to conduct research and accumulate clinical volunteering hours is your best bet. However, do keep in mind that this is all contingent on your MCAT score. Without a high MCAT score, admission to top-tier schools becomes much less likely.

This is all just my opinion though! I may very well be wrong.

Ah yes, the glorious MCAT is what ultimately determines my eligibility to even apply to the schools that I want to attend haha

Do you think it's difficult to secure a research position at one of the aforementioned institutions? How should I go about finding one? Is there a formal application process I have to go through, or can I just cold-contact several PIs who have the same/similar research interests as I do?

I also have another worry that I'll just be one of those "checkbox" applicants who have no personal narrative, although I have been focusing a lot on art, Alzheimer's, and being part of underserved communities, but then again there are a loooooot of fish in the sea so I'm not sure if I can actually stand out

 

[proudofmykids]

OP- Can you clarify, are you first generation college, or first gen med school?
Also, SES is generally a large advantage especially if there is demonstration of disadvantaged education. Alternatively, it would not be a big advantage if you attended top k-12 performing schools or on scholarship to private school.

Also, to let you know FAFSA calculators are not intuitive nor accurate for for MD schools. Despite being a graduate school, unlike other grad programs and the Graduate FAFSA Calculator, MD schools take your parent/s’ income into account (even if you are married with your own kids.). Therefore as a first pass EFC estimate, actually use the Undergraduate FAFSA EFC calculator for MD school. It is good enough, as each med school has their own fin aid formulas.

 

[KnightDoc]

I had two IIs from T20s, but they are both notorious for interviewing a lot of applicants and have low post-II A rates.

But, you're still in the running at at least one of them. I honestly have a good feeling you're going to get in somewhere before this is over.

 

[screwedpremed999]

I never applied to them, so I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that research positions such as those you describe can indeed be difficult to acquire. There are some formal programs that require an application (just Google “post-bachelor research positions”), but it is likely also possible to become a research assistant by simply cold-contacting PIs (that’s actually what I’m doing right now in preparation for an unplanned gap year lol).

And you’re absolutely right that a strong narrative is important! Whatever you do, make sure you can weave it into an authentic and compelling narrative.

Ohh mann I see, thank you so much for this insight! I guess I'm gonna have to start looking at these PIs now so I can start contacting them later in the year 😰😰. Thank you again, you have been so helpful!!

 

[screwedpremed999]

No problem, and I wish you the best of luck!

Thank you so much, and I wish you the best of luck too!

 

[proudofmykids]

I am the oldest child of immigrant parents, and I am a 1st generation college student with absolutely no ties to medicine (I don't even have distant relatives who are health care professionals). I'm not sure if this clarifies anything else, but my family is below the poverty line.

I was fortunate to have been accepted to and attended a top high school (but that was achievable because 1. I worked super duper hard in middle/elementary school, 2. I just happened to live in an area that had a top high school, and/or 3. I was just lucky lol); however, most, if not all, of my classmates are from upper-middle/upper class backgrounds, and they clearly had access to more resources when it came to tutoring and resources when applying for undergrad because I was one of the more unsuccessful undergrad applicants. I'm fortunate to attend a public college and receive generous need-based financial aid.

Thank you so much for letting me know about FAFSA! I will certainly check that out, thank you again

My recommendation is to ask some of the Adcom’s on SDN for suggestions on how to narrate your Low SES narrative. It has been said many time on SDN before that you don’t want to check the box just because you can. I believe they strong recommend demonstrating the impact the low SES had on your education into the narrative. It is far beyond my knowledge, I am just point out that I believe you should ask for some recommendations from them given your specific situation, especially since you did attend a top high school.

 

[screwedpremed999]

My recommendation is to ask some of the Adcom’s on SDN for suggestions on how to narrate your Low SES narrative. It has been said many time on SDN before that you don’t want to check the box just because you can. I believe they strong recommend demonstrating the impact the low SES had on your education into the narrative. It is far beyond my knowledge, I am just point out that I believe you should ask for some recommendations from them given your specific situation, especially since you did attend a top high school.

Thank you so much for your input! I will definitely ask adcoms on SDN for suggestions because my case is a little bit weird...
All I need to figure out now is when I should ask them because that depends on whether or not I ultimately take a gap year

 

[Banco]

Wait you’re just a sophomore? You’re FINE my dude. You have a whole year+ to get the proper clinics experiences and continue with research; you will have plenty of quantity and quality by application time. Just make sure to crush the MCAT.

You have already seen the soft hours “requirements” posted by Goro. Many of the thousands of hours people have in WAMC I find overkill and twists applicants’ perspectives of what is needed. Take a breather.

 

[screwedpremed999]

Wait you’re just a sophomore? You’re FINE my dude. You have a whole year+ to get the proper clinics experiences and continue with research; you will have plenty of quantity and quality by application time. Just make sure to crush the MCAT.

You have already seen the soft hours “requirements” posted by Goro. Many of the thousands of hours people have in WAMC I find overkill and twists applicants’ perspectives of what is needed. Take a breather.

Aaah really?? I'm still a bit wary with my research experience because the schools I'd like to attend are research-heavy after all...

Nevertheless, this is the most encouraging statement I've heard today, thank you so much for letting me know 😅 I will definitely work hard on those stats and keep up with the ECs. Thank you again!

 

[proudofmykids]

Aaah really?? I'm still a bit wary with my research experience because the schools I'd like to attend are research-heavy after all...

Nevertheless, this is the most encouraging statement I've heard today, thank you so much for letting me know 😅 I will definitely work hard on those stats and keep up with the ECs. Thank you again!

By the way, many in the T20 are not research heavy required!

 

[screwedpremed999]

By the way, many in the T20 are not research heavy required!

Oh, for real?? Everyone here says that T20s look for applicants with a lot of research experience so that they'll have a way to use their research $$ and advance the field of medicine (which is part of a lot of schools' mission statements)

 

[proudofmykids]

Oh, for real?? Everyone here says that T20s look for applicants with a lot of research experience so that they'll have a way to use their research $$ and advance the field of medicine (which is part of a lot of schools' mission statements)

What is should have said was “previous” heavy research experience. Pretty much all Med school students will do research while there.

 

[screwedpremed999]

What is should have said was “previous” heavy research experience. Pretty much all Med school students will do research while there.

Ah, gotcha. In that case, how and to what extent should you demonstrate that you have an aptitude/potential to conduct quality research in med school?

 

[Banco]

Aaah really?? I'm still a bit wary with my research experience because the schools I'd like to attend are research-heavy after all...

Nevertheless, this is the most encouraging statement I've heard today, thank you so much for letting me know 😅 I will definitely work hard on those stats and keep up with the ECs. Thank you again!

Well you have a year+ to increase your research experience, as well as your clinical. Your rate limiter as of now from "research heavy schools" is the MCAT - that should be priority. But remember, you don't need to go to a top X school - just focus on doing well and the pieces and school list will fall into place.

 

[screwedpremed999]

Well you have a year+ to increase your research experience, as well as your clinical. Your rate limiter as of now from "research heavy schools" is the MCAT - that should be priority. But remember, you don't need to go to a top X school - just focus on doing well and the pieces and school list will fall into place.

I understand-- I will keep up with my research and clinical hours, as well as increasingly make the MCAT a priority as I complete more of the prerequisite coursework. Thank you so much for your advice, and for reassuring that it's not the absolute end of the world if I don't go to a top school; I'm just worried that I'm missing something fundamental and then finding out about it late into my pre-med journey lol

 

[MDMechEngr]

I’m just an applicant myself (and not a very successful one so far, unfortunately), so I don’t have all the answers, but I personally think your chances of getting an acceptance are a bit low without a gap year, especially at high-tier schools. When I applied this cycle, I had hours comparable to yours in a lot of areas, along with a 4.00 GPA and a 523 MCAT. I got a decent number of interviews (all except for one of which I believe went well), but I’m currently at the mercy of 5 WLs with no As. Maybe my writing was to blame (it wasn’t terrible, but it was a bit dry in hindsight), in which case, you could absolutely have much more success than I did assuming you write better essays. Even then, however, I don’t think it’s likely you could secure an acceptance at a top-tier school, but mid- to low-tiers are not out of the question.

I think interviewing skills is more your issue than your writing. You got 5 II so your writing is okay.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Those are valid points, thank you so much!
My expected contribution right now based on FAFSA is 0, so I'm not sure if cost is going to be a huge factor for me when choosing which medical schools to apply/matriculate

How many clinical hours do you think I should aim for? Do you think it's essential that I get a paid job in a clinical setting, or would it be okay if I keep volunteering at the free clinic and hospice? I don't want to spread myself out too thin...

And how much more in depth should I go with research-- is it true that I need to get published?

Lol I do need to stop comparing myself to others on SDN, but I don't know where else I can figure out what the overall "standard"/"baseline" is for current medical school applicants besides here

Thank you again for your advice!

I have the (unique?) distinction of being from a highly educated but low SES family. It’s a long story but boils down to most everyone in the extended family is in healthcare or law but my immediate family is bad with money.

You may already know this but it sounds like you may not based on a couple of things youve said here. The practical results of EFC for grad school is very different than for undergraduate. In UG if you have good grades and EFC = 0, your school will often give you scholarships. Plus you probably got a $5-6k grant from the federal government. Most premed students with good grades and EFC = 0 could probably attend state school at a very reasonable cost (less than $5k per year) because of that grant and merit scholarships.

However, There are almost no merit scholarships for medical school. Your EFC just means that you can take out more LOANS than a person with a higher EFC. The schools won’t see EFC 0 and think they’re footing the bill because unlike UG, they will likely not be offering you need based or merit based grants or scholarships. This all goes to say that cost should absolutely be a huge factor unless you know for a fact that a more expensive school can help you get a residency that will lead to a high paying specialty that will help you pay those loans back.

Anyone please feel free to correct me if there are more scholarships for MD students. I’m at a DO $chool so I know things run a little differently for us.

 

[MDMechEngr]

I honestly don’t think it’s that. I practiced interviewing with several people (some from my school’s career advising office, one physician, and a couple of family members), and I received very positive feedback. But you’re right, the number of IIs I got makes me think it wasn’t writing, now that you mention it.

I think my problems mostly stemmed from less-than-steller ECs. But it doesn’t matter that much anymore since I just got off a WL today!

Awesome! congrats.

yes, they are distillation columns and not cat cracking towers. LOL.

Good luck to you.

 

[KnightDoc]

I think my problems mostly stemmed from less-than-steller ECs. But it doesn’t matter that much anymore since I just got off a WL today!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! Apparently my crystal ball isn't totally useless. 😀