Please Think, don`t waste ur money, DONT GO FOR DPT

[james creek]

PT is a great profession, there so no doubt in that. But these insurance providers gave all rights to Physicians and other health care team members. It causes more pain for physical therapists. After your highest education(DPT) you don`t have right to prescribe treatment to Patient.

Thats all because of INSURANCE PROVIDERS, these days insurance providers are monarchs in health care industry.Evey monarch they need some followers to implement their rules on public for money. Then they got these physicians. Then they took all rights from Pt and now PT is nothing after highest level of education(DPT).

Thats why PT need a lot of changes in health care system, until then its waste to get highest degree.

One more impotent this is You don`t get more pay and any extra rights after your PhD or dpt. other hand the Pt with bachelors degree and pt with DPT degree earn same money.

Friends go and fight for your rights and get your beautiful feature back from other health care team.Only get your (PT) rights , you don`t` need nothing.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[kdpt3]

Perhaps you'll think I'm too naive or idealistic, but I'm not going in to this profession in search of reimbursement or respect because of what it says on my diploma. Yes, I'm going to fight for rights as a PT, but I'm going in to this profession because it fits me. I like being with people. I'm interested in health. For all the reasons that many others say, whether they believe it themselves or not, I want to be a DPT. It's not a waste of my time or money to get the highest possible education if it helps me treat a patient better. Furthermore, I always want to keep learning. If I ever stop challenging myself intellectually, I'm going to be miserable. I've done it before, I know. Now I'm not a fan of the way politics and insurance companies work and I recognize the realistic complicated side of the profession and that there are changes that need to be made. That said, I will certainly not ever let anyone tell me what I should or shouldn't do with my money, my education, and my life when all the reasons are completely contradictory to who I am and why I work as hard as I do.

 

[truthseeker]

Perhaps you'll think I'm too naive or idealistic, but I'm not going in to this profession in search of reimbursement or respect because of what it says on my diploma. Yes, I'm going to fight for rights as a PT, but I'm going in to this profession because it fits me. I like being with people. I'm interested in health. For all the reasons that many others say, whether they believe it themselves or not, I want to be a DPT. It's not a waste of my time or money to get the highest possible education if it helps me treat a patient better. Furthermore, I always want to keep learning. If I ever stop challenging myself intellectually, I'm going to be miserable. I've done it before, I know. Now I'm not a fan of the way politics and insurance companies work and I recognize the realistic complicated side of the profession and that there are changes that need to be made. That said, I will certainly not ever let anyone tell me what I should or shouldn't do with my money, my education, and my life when all the reasons are completely contradictory to who I am and why I work as hard as I do.

Amen Brother.

 

[Bigshoguns]

newbie!!!

.

 

[mcc0037]

Dawson's Creek, why are you being so discouraging? I and I'm sure others have done the research, the soul searching, and the time on the direction for our future career. I'm not pursuing this career to make a fortune and I'm also not investing into a particular DPT program just because it is a "doctorate". The majority of the schools have already made the transition to the doctorate program so these are the cards we are dealt with and I'm not going to play "Where's Waldo" on the map just to find a masters program in physical therapy. We can't the escape loans. It goes with the territory of graduate school. If one takes out just what is needed, try to stay instate, be smart on choosing a lender with a great interest rate, and sacrifice a couple of years to pay it back then what is one more year going to do except provide more knowledge.

Physical therapy for me goes beyond ego hunger, the insurance monopoly, and the term "doctor". I can care less about status, six-figure income, or being sized up by other "prestigious" careers. Those greedy reasons can bite my crank. I think 50-60k+ a year is an excellent salary range because 1) its comfortable living 2) its above the average salary 3) it will not attract gold-digging trophy wives. Being financially stable involves strategy on how one invest in their money. Medical doctors, professional athletes, and lawyers can be poor if they do not manage their finances right. Plus, students who pursue a PhD is because they are interested in academia and research not the pay.

On another note, I was on the "pre-med" bandwagon with my friends but I realized that I had no business on going to medical school because I had NO INTEREST on becoming a medical doctor. Even the great salary potential hasn't motivated me to take the MCAT and enter into the program because I had NO desire for it. I even volunteered for numerous physicians and a dentist to confirm my lack of interest in those fields.

I enjoy the rehabilitation setting observing the progress of others and getting well-acquainted with patients. I love the art of anatomy with movement and I plan on sharing that knowledge once I'm officially educated to do so. Working in a physical therapy environment has only pressed the gas pedal instead of the brakes on my motivation to become a physical therapist. Oh ya, my boss who runs two physical therapy clinics has NO PROBLEMS making ends meet. He is a great physical therapist, team player with ortho surgeons and other medical doctors (that highly refer patients to his clinics), and his patients ALWAYS come back and if not them its their friends or family. He NEVER bitches about the healthcare system and is making above average because he knows how to network, he knows how to manage and run his clinic, and he loves his job.

Grasshopper, you have a lot to learn if you base your reasons off of your statements. I hope one day you choose a career that you are most compatible with and overlook past money, power, and status but find a job that satisfies your inner-self day in and day out that lets you maximize your potential.

 

[xMerryx]

I understand everyone's point of view because I'm not goint into the profession for money or glorifacation, but also, I agree that if I could go with the master's or Bachelor's I would (honestly the DPT will really hurt my pocket) , but is hard to do that since few schools still ofer the MPT.

 

[xMerryx]

Physical therapy for me goes beyond ego hunger, the insurance monopoly, and the term "doctor". I can care less about status, six-figure income, or being sized up by other "prestigious" careers. Those greedy reasons can bite my crank. I think 50-60k+ a year is an excellent salary range because 1) its comfortable living 2) its above the average salary 3) it will not attract gold-digging trophy wives.


hahaha!

 

[Bigshoguns]

Let me add some fuel to the fire.

I think there is a misinterpretation between salary and insurance reembursment.

Insurance only gives back a small amount of money to any MD/DO, PT/OT/, or lab work..

I am going from my hospital bill. The bill was $8000 for an ER visit, but Insurance paid the full but it came out to 1000 b/c of their rates etc. and 100 coming from my pocket. So a 8k bill was lowered to 1000 and 100 from my pocket total payment was 1100.

With me so far??

Any MD/DO, PT/OT, etc will have a contract with the hospital on Salary/benefits etc. I dont think the insurance reembursment, that people are comparing to PT salaires is a valid comparision because Medical Doctors get reembursed very little from insurance but their salaries are through the roof. Same applies to the PTs, even though the reembursment is little, the salary is based upon the PT and hospital. ( NOW there will always be cases were a patient does not have coverage or enough coverage and they get charged the marked up price for ther services performed, which equal more $$ in hospital.)

Now, I do see the BPT/MPT vs DPT salary debate being no matter the degree they all get paid the same. I think the DPTs get slightly higher pay for their degrees, not astronomically, but slightly. Also this is a barginning chip for the DPTs to get slighly higer pay and to ask for the higher pay b/c of the course work done and degree held. And I do see DPTs salaries going up in the future b/c this issue is wide spread and people will fight for their right.

Also another point is Private practice salaries vs hospital salaires etc etc etc. many points to talk about.

 

[SuperKirby]

PT is a great profession, there so no doubt in that. But these insurance providers gave all rights to Physicians and other health care team members. It causes more pain for physical therapists. After your highest education(DPT) you don`t have right to prescribe treatment to Patient.

Thats all because of INSURANCE PROVIDERS, these days insurance providers are monarchs in health care industry.Evey monarch they need some followers to implement their rules on public for money. Then they got these physicians. Then they took all rights from Pt and now PT is nothing after highest level of education(DPT).

Thats why PT need a lot of changes in health care system, until then its waste to get highest degree.

One more impotent this is You don`t get more pay and any extra rights after your PhD or dpt. other hand the Pt with bachelors degree and pt with DPT degree earn same money.

Friends go and fight for your rights and get your beautiful feature back from other health care team.Only get your (PT) rights , you don`t` need nothing.

dude, go be an effin chiro man, and get out of our forum.
we're PT's, we actually like our job!

 

[mcc0037]

PT is a great profession, there so no doubt in that. But these insurance providers gave all rights to Physicians and other health care team members. It causes more pain for physical therapists. After your highest education(DPT) you don`t have right to prescribe treatment to Patient.

Thats all because of INSURANCE PROVIDERS, these days insurance providers are monarchs in health care industry.Evey monarch they need some followers to implement their rules on public for money. Then they got these physicians. Then they took all rights from Pt and now PT is nothing after highest level of education(DPT).

Thats why PT need a lot of changes in health care system, until then its waste to get highest degree.

One more impotent this is You don`t get more pay and any extra rights after your PhD or dpt. other hand the Pt with bachelors degree and pt with DPT degree earn same money.

Friends go and fight for your rights and get your beautiful feature back from other health care team.Only get your (PT) rights , you don`t` need nothing.

Walt Kowalski (Clint Eastwood): "Get off my lawn!"-Gran Torino

 

[james creek]

Walt Kowalski (Clint Eastwood): "Get off my lawn!"-Gran Torino

Hello folks,
some guys misunderstand my posting. I am a physical therapist. I like what i am. My main concern about Our rights.
After Dpt also we dont have right to prescribe our best treatment to patient.
Thats all about it

 

[CLGUY]

Hello folks,
some guys misunderstand my posting. I am a physical therapist. I like what i am. My main concern about Our rights.
After Dpt also we dont have right to prescribe our best treatment to patient.
Thats all about it

Please, don't insult our intelligence. Your argument that students should not pursue a DPT is based on the fact that DPTs cannot prescribe treatment. I don't believe anyone here believes that by getting a DPT, they will automatically be able to prescribe treatment themselves w/o a physician. By your argument, I guess no student should pursue ANY PT degree.
The DPT degree is a step toward building more autonomy in prescribing treatments, among other things. Encouraging students not to pursue a DPT degree is probably some of the worst advice I've heard. The DPT is where the field is heading. It is a matter of time before it the only degree one can have to be able to practice, and there is no guarantee that a future employer will fund further education to attain a DPT.

 

[PharmDan2]

Please, don't insult our intelligence. Your argument that students should not pursue a DPT is based on the fact that DPTs cannot prescribe treatment. I don't believe anyone here believes that by getting a DPT, they will automatically be able to prescribe treatment themselves w/o a physician. By your argument, I guess no student should pursue ANY PT degree.
The DPT degree is a step toward building more autonomy in prescribing treatments, among other things. Encouraging students not to pursue a DPT degree is probably some of the worst advice I've heard. The DPT is where the field is heading. It is a matter of time before it the only degree one can have to be able to practice, and there is no guarantee that a future employer will fund further education to attain a DPT.

CLGUY hit it right on the head. Although many may not like going to school for 3 years and paying back large loans for our degree, the DPT is the best direction for this field.

Although we may not learn much more when moving from the MPT to the DPT, the effect it will have will be VERY important concerning the social and political environment. After speaking to friends and family about becoming a PT, some of them actually thought that PTs were nothing more than glorified massage therapists with basic certificates or degrees from community college. By moving to the DPT, this will change the public's ignorant view of our profession in healthcare. Also, many people may not view PTs the same way they do MDs for the exact same reason. Everyone knows the knowledge doctors possess, as well as the years of schooling and education they must receive...yet they do not know what it takes to be a PT or the education/knowledge that we have. Although the switch to the DPT is controversial, I believe it is the best move for our career. In the future, if we all have the doctorate, there will be much more bargaining power in Washington when we demand more autonomy by proving our doctorate-level knowledge on the subject and the ability we have to improve healthcare.

 

[Cyres]

I am a physical therapist. I like what i am.

The tread topic, the grammar, the rampant emoticons-- based on what you've typed so far I doubt that you are a physiotherapist. (There is, however, the overt hate of insurance companies in your first post, suggestive of some experience in health care. ) On the outside chance you are a physiotherapist... be aware that you are poorly representing our profession.

After Dpt also we dont have right to prescribe our best treatment to patient.

Wrong.

I don't believe anyone here believes that by getting a DPT, they will automatically be able to prescribe treatment themselves w/o a physician.

Depending on state practice acts, P.T.s can (within their scope) evaluate, diagnose and prescribe treatment independently. That's autonomous practice / direct access.

 

[PMC85]

I think what the original poster is trying to say is that the Doctor of Physical Therapy degree is a bad business decision. Although I may have misunderstood what he meant because the original post was grammatically incoherent and disjointed. Well lets look at the facts and see if the DPT actually makes fiscal sense. As we all know the DPT degree is four years of undergrad and three years professional school. The first four years typically cost 50K (state university) and the last three cost 100K(private university) add it up and that’s 150K for your DPT degree. But that’s not the end of the story. I think to be fair you have to add up all of the wages lost from time off of work while pursuing your professional degree. When I graduated high school I had friends that started work at the local lumber mill at $22 per hour. That’s 44K a yr., now multiply that by seven, the number of years in school, and that equals $308,000 now add that to the cost of the DPT degree and you come up with $458,000. But wait! We still aren’t at the actual cost because we haven’t added the interest you will have to pay on your student loans. At 6.8% interest on 150K you are looking at paying an additional 185K over 30 years. So what is the total cost of a DPT degree? How about $643,000.00 Still think being paid as much as the city bus driver is a good deal? Now I know that some of you neophyte pre pt’s are going to say, “Well, I love the field of physical therapy and I just want to help people and it doesn’t matter how much money I make”. Look, helping people is great but what you are forgetting is unless your daddy paid the bill for you the whole way through school you need to be compensated for the 643,000 dollars you spent obtaining your Doctorate of Physical therapy.

 

[thorn22]

I think what the original poster is trying to say is that the Doctor of Physical Therapy degree is a bad business decision. Although I may have misunderstood what he meant because the original post was grammatically incoherent and disjointed. Well lets look at the facts and see if the DPT actually makes fiscal sense. As we all know the DPT degree is four years of undergrad and three years professional school. The first four years typically cost 50K (state university) and the last three cost 100K(private university) add it up and that’s 150K for your DPT degree. But that’s not the end of the story. I think to be fair you have to add up all of the wages lost from time off of work while pursuing your professional degree. When I graduated high school I had friends that started work at the local lumber mill at $22 per hour. That’s 44K a yr., now multiply that by seven, the number of years in school, and that equals $308,000 now add that to the cost of the DPT degree and you come up with $458,000. But wait! We still aren’t at the actual cost because we haven’t added the interest you will have to pay on your student loans. At 6.8% interest on 150K you are looking at paying an additional 185K over 30 years. So what is the total cost of a DPT degree? How about $643,000.00 Still think being paid as much as the city bus driver is a good deal? Now I know that some of you neophyte pre pt’s are going to say, “Well, I love the field of physical therapy and I just want to help people and it doesn’t matter how much money I make”. Look, helping people is great but what you are forgetting is unless your daddy paid the bill for you the whole way through school you need to be compensated for the 643,000 dollars you spent obtaining your Doctorate of Physical therapy.

I agree with everything you wrote. Luckily for me I had my undergrad paid for through scholarships. What I am dreading is the 100K+ of debt from the DPT. I know it is a horrible business decision, considering the starting salary is maybe 50K. However, with that being said, it is still my passion and what I love. I really couldnt see myself doing anything different for a career.

Bring on the loans!

 

[fallbackplan]

I think what the original poster is trying to say is that the Doctor of Physical Therapy degree is a bad business decision. Although I may have misunderstood what he meant because the original post was grammatically incoherent and disjointed. Well lets look at the facts and see if the DPT actually makes fiscal sense. As we all know the DPT degree is four years of undergrad and three years professional school. The first four years typically cost 50K (state university) and the last three cost 100K(private university) add it up and that’s 150K for your DPT degree. But that’s not the end of the story. I think to be fair you have to add up all of the wages lost from time off of work while pursuing your professional degree. When I graduated high school I had friends that started work at the local lumber mill at $22 per hour. That’s 44K a yr., now multiply that by seven, the number of years in school, and that equals $308,000 now add that to the cost of the DPT degree and you come up with $458,000. But wait! We still aren’t at the actual cost because we haven’t added the interest you will have to pay on your student loans. At 6.8% interest on 150K you are looking at paying an additional 185K over 30 years. So what is the total cost of a DPT degree? How about $643,000.00 Still think being paid as much as the city bus driver is a good deal? Now I know that some of you neophyte pre pt’s are going to say, “Well, I love the field of physical therapy and I just want to help people and it doesn’t matter how much money I make”. Look, helping people is great but what you are forgetting is unless your daddy paid the bill for you the whole way through school you need to be compensated for the 643,000 dollars you spent obtaining your Doctorate of Physical therapy.

sounds like you should go to work at the lumbermill...

 

[bipennate]

I think what the original poster is trying to say is that the Doctor of Physical Therapy degree is a bad business decision. Although I may have misunderstood what he meant because the original post was grammatically incoherent and disjointed. Well lets look at the facts and see if the DPT actually makes fiscal sense. As we all know the DPT degree is four years of undergrad and three years professional school. The first four years typically cost 50K (state university) and the last three cost 100K(private university) add it up and that's 150K for your DPT degree. But that's not the end of the story. I think to be fair you have to add up all of the wages lost from time off of work while pursuing your professional degree. When I graduated high school I had friends that started work at the local lumber mill at $22 per hour. That's 44K a yr., now multiply that by seven, the number of years in school, and that equals $308,000 now add that to the cost of the DPT degree and you come up with $458,000. But wait! We still aren't at the actual cost because we haven't added the interest you will have to pay on your student loans. At 6.8% interest on 150K you are looking at paying an additional 185K over 30 years. So what is the total cost of a DPT degree? How about $643,000.00 Still think being paid as much as the city bus driver is a good deal? Now I know that some of you neophyte pre pt's are going to say, "Well, I love the field of physical therapy and I just want to help people and it doesn't matter how much money I make". Look, helping people is great but what you are forgetting is unless your daddy paid the bill for you the whole way through school you need to be compensated for the 643,000 dollars you spent obtaining your Doctorate of Physical therapy.

That was an excellent argument that left out a few particularly important and relevant facts:
If we look at the average salary of physical therapists across specialty areas in the US, we see an increasing wage over experience ranging from $55k/year entry-level to a little over $70k/year ( http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Physical_Therapist_(PT)/Salary ). This, btw, is substantially more than "the city bus driver" who makes between $14-18k/year http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Bus_Driver,_Transit_and_Intercity/Hourly_Rate The disregard of supporting your argument will weaken the product, which is a problem that you run into a number of times in your post, btw.

If we look at the earnings of an individual with just a high school degree, this ranges between $30-45k/year, so while your example of your friends going out and making $44k/year out of high school would probably not be representative of the earning power of a high school graduate, it's still within the range http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=High_School_Diploma/Salary

I didn't check your math, but I'l accept it as being accurate for the discussion. If we take $30-44k/year and look at lifetime earnings, we see a total of $1.4-2.1 million over the career (47 years). If we look at a new DPT however (graduating at age 25, they will have 40 years of professional work), they can expect $2.7 million dollars over the course of the career. If we subtract the $650/k of the cost of education, the PT will still make at least as much over his/her career vs. your high school grad, and the PT is likely to make double that of a high school educated individual, in fact.

While this may still not be a striking amount when we consider the time and effort put into the barrier to practice, or relative to a Bachelor's degree in science (which is generally about the same average salary as the PT with his/her graduate degree), we also haven't taken into consideration the intangibles, such as greater career mobility and income options (teaching, the option to provide continuing ed in a number of areas, etc) and, of course, a fulfilling career doing something that you love which might not be a great argument to an economist but something that absolutely cannot be overlooked. Add to this the fact that the DPT has at least the potential, as was already discussed in this thread, to improve the profession overall and income of all PT's over time (there are other ways to do this as well, too, of course), and there are added values to the switch that can't be evaluated by a number on a paycheck.

You don't become a PT to become economically rich, you become a PT to be enriched. But you won't be poor, either. If you want to be rich, choose another profession, because obviously this one will not offer you what you seek.

 

[LAcDPT2be]

I'm with you bipennate.

So I'm going to ask the question:
If we don't bother with the DPT what choice will we have?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that in order to even get into this line of work, soon enough, you'll be required to have the DPT to be licensed and to practice.

Keeping that in mind- Does it really matter if it's a financially sound investment or not if a doctorate is what's required?

If so, (and this is my opinion only) then almost every doctorate isn't worth the money...which is old news (for those who share my opinion)....but we do it anyway because it's what we want to study.

 

[lee9786]

I'm with you bipennate.

So I'm going to ask the question:
If we don't bother with the DPT what choice will we have?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that in order to even get into this line of work, soon enough, you'll be required to have the DPT to be licensed and to practice.

Keeping that in mind- Does it really matter if it's a financially sound investment or not if a doctorate is what's required?

If so, (and this is my opinion only) then almost every doctorate isn't worth the money...which is old news (for those who share my opinion)....but we do it anyway because it's what we want to study.

And you just described my thought process. At first glance I was completely set to go for the DPT. Even knowing about the salary info. I took a couple steps back when I looked at the total cost of attaining the credential? It now becomes a situation where I'm concerned I can pay off my total 120-150k of loans when all is said and done. It has me researching the PTA profession a little more. Even though it would be almost a slap in the face to go that route as far advanced as I am. I guess you're right... Most likely I will be spending the money anyways. I'll be buying a way of life.

 

[PharmDan2]

Hmm, never looked at the money aspect that way...but at the same time, scholarships have paid my undegrad, so that cost me $0, and I am able to live at home for grad school and the total bill comes out to about $70k... $40k of which I can pay on my own due to saving up

 

[jesspt]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that in order to even get into this line of work, soon enough, you'll be required to have the DPT to be licensed and to practice.

Well, actually, that is just the American Physical Therapy Association's vision (Vision 2020). It is quite possible that a DPT will NOT be required to practice physical therapy. The APTA has nothing to do with licensing PTs, and therefore can't set the requirements for practice.

However, it does seem likely that soon there will be no more Master's level programs, so eventually there will only be Doctorate-level PTs.

 

[DOctorJay]

now compare the numbers to a PA who went to school for 2 years, makes closer to 90K, and can still work in the rehab setting.

(just playing devil's advocate and making sure your eyes are wide open, if you still decide on PT it'll be a pleasure working with you in the future!)

 

[thorn22]

now compare the numbers to a PA who went to school for 2 years, makes closer to 90K, and can still work in the rehab setting.

(just playing devil's advocate and making sure your eyes are wide open, if you still decide on PT it'll be a pleasure working with you in the future!)

Thats an interesting point.

My girlfriend and I have had this discussion, as I am going for the DPT and her to be a PA. Her program, however, is 3 years instead of the usual 2, because it has an emphasis on Pediatrics. She basically gets a Peds residency within her program. (Lucky her)

It is funny to look at the wage differences. I, with a "Doctorate" degree, will start somewhere between 50-60K. Her, with "Assistant" in her title, will make probably 5-10K more than me throughout the length of our careers.

Sound ironic to anyone else?

 

[mcc0037]

Seriously... is this so-called equation actually going to win a Nobel Prize??? F-ING NO! It is common sense that you are going to sacrifice time and pay to achieve your bachelors. It is also common sense that one WILL have to spend money and take out loans in order to go to graduate school (physical therapy school is no exception). This is nothing new people. Quit acting shocked about DPT school. If students are going to have an anxiety attack and crap their pants about their tuition, then maybe they should recalculate what school best fits them financially like going to an instate graduate school rather than a private school or quit buying the cases and settle for the six-pack. There are some out of state DPT schools (with low cost of living) that are cheaper than private schools. If you're that uptight in the butt about finances and time, go apply to those few masters degrees before it becomes officially extinct. This is part of the learning process of growing up. Find what best works for you in both the short and the long run. You might not be able to buy that "cool" car or that "new" house right out of DPT school but soooo what. Suck it up, have fun with the career that you worked so hard to achieve, live cheaply, and try to quickly pay off your debt. Don't gradually pay it off in 30 years like an idiot...

P.S.-You're choosing physical therapy for a reason and enjoying your job is a sense of currency in my mind.

 

[McFlojoDPT]

There have been many good points made by advocates of this profession. I can honestly say that there have been times when I have thought "Why don't I just go to med school, or even PA school, make the big bucks and not deal with the political struggles of the PT world? I have the GPA, I've taken the classes, I've even prepared for the MCAT. I'll be at the top of the ladder, I'll have the respect of friends and family, I can pay back my loans in a matter of a few years, etc." I think many of us have thought the same thing, although some may not admit it. That is when I remember why I chose physical therapy. I want to work with my patients! I mean really work with them, not just turn into a revolving door of medicine. Furthermore, I don't want to be "pigeon-holed" into one aspect of medicine or treatment always wanting to be a specialist.

So why choose physical therapy over PA school, nursing school, dental school, med school, etc.? Point blank: it doesn't fit me. Certain personalities are attracted to certain careers. I couldn't be happier with my choice, I just wish I would have chosen this earlier! For me, I'm willing to pay any amount of money to do what I love. If you are completely fulfilled in your employment, you have an opportunity to be the best. If you are the best, and use your individaul talents to your advantage, the money will come because you will become a commodity. I am not worried about my debt nor am I worried about my salary. If I spent my days pining away about how much debt I would be in, I would have just started work after high school and never went to college in the first place. I wanted an education, I wanted a doctorate, I wanted my family to actually see me every day and not wonder "When is dad coming home? Why does he have to be on call so much?" I want that 9-5, tee time on Saturdays, a cozy house, a decent car, and food. I don't need the mansions or the crappy hours (which, by the way, is what a lot of doctors end up getting).

That being said, I am ready to step up in this calling. I am ready to fight for the privilege to practice on my own without referalls if need be (like many chiros). I am ready to be an advocate for patient rights and to help the dwindling number of family doctors out there (notice I said help, not become a physician. Anything to take the load off our peers in the industry will be a benefit to us and them). Most of all I am ready to take on any debt, or any challenge in order to practice the best, hands on treatment for individuals who desperately need rehabilitation and strength to just live a life with movement, which for many equals freedom. There are many out there who want to be RN's, LPN's, PA's, D.O.s, M.D.'s etc. I applaud you and hope that we can all work together, for once, to make healthcare in America the best it possibly can be.

 

[LAcDPT2be]

Well, actually, that is just the American Physical Therapy Association's vision (Vision 2020). It is quite possible that a DPT will NOT be required to practice physical therapy. The APTA has nothing to do with licensing PTs, and therefore can't set the requirements for practice.

However, it does seem likely that soon there will be no more Master's level programs, so eventually there will only be Doctorate-level PTs.

Thanks! I had wondered about that, since there seem to be very few Master's programs left....

 

[superCOTA]

The original poster realizes that as the jump to DPT should require something extra for the student.

We know that it benefits APTA, which will fare better than OT and AT and Rec therapists.

It benefits colleges obviously, why would they disagree?

And yet all these BS and MS PTs' have been doing quality work for decades....You wanna go toe to toe with your fresh degree and their 20 years of experience? Good luck!

Th DPT - It's marketing.

But again the student should be getting something tangible.. like being able to write the RX .. but I believe that is a legislative issue from state to state, and he is venting.

 

[lee9786]

The original poster realizes that as the jump to DPT should require something extra for the student.

We know that it benefits APTA, which will fare better than OT and AT and Rec therapists.

It benefits colleges obviously, why would they disagree?

And yet all these BS and MS PTs' have been doing quality work for decades....You wanna go toe to toe with your fresh degree and their 20 years of experience? Good luck!

Th DPT - It's marketing.

But again the student should be getting something tangible.. like being able to write the RX .. but I believe that is a legislative issue from state to state, and he is venting.

No extra compensation but another 25k in school costs. ~125k for the DPT and ~50k/year starting out. Loan calculators don't like the ten year payment plan because 40% of the monthly paycheck is going to pay off loans. This is what has me concerned.

I guess the DPT is a big experiment. Marketing to encourage more use of "direct access" for the PT. A couple of questions to ask... Will it work? Will compensation increase at all? I think it's a great idea implement the doctorate program to increase knowledge. I'm just concerned I'll still be eating ramen noodles when I'm 40.

 

[pttrac]

I think that everyone is in a different situation. In my situation I had my undergrad entirely paid for my grants and scholarships. I worked my ass of save money for PT school and will try to pay as much of it as I can. I have been accepted to a local school so I really don't have any extra living expenses than the ones I had before PT school. The only thing is that the school is private so it is a little more expensive. If I had got into a local state funded school than it would have been definitely a good choice and financially better on my part. In the end, I think that everyone's situation is difference but PT school or any grad school can be really expensive.

 

[mcc0037]

One does kind of create their own burden of debt. For instance, here are my choices so far that I am interested in:

Texas Tech: $10K per year x 3 = ~ $30K
University of Miami: $24K per year x 3 = ~ $72k
USC: $40K+ per year x 3 = ~ $120k+
Emory: $k per year x 3 = ~$k ( I have an interview this Friday)

Even though this is tuition alone and does not include living expenses, DPT school can be affordable but it is your responsibility to find a school that can accommodate you financially and help you pass the board exam. I'm not going to USC because the cost of living plus tuition is out of my realistic financial range. They do have a great education but experience can make up for what is missed in the classroom and will eventually even out over time. Texas Tech is ideal for me because of the cheap instate tuition and low cost of living. I do want to go out of state and experience life outside of Texas but there is also a pricetag for that as well. Miami seems perfect for me since I really enjoyed what it had to offer but the cost of living is somewhat of a financial trap. I will be open-minded and see what Emory will have to offer. I'm sure its no $10k like Texas Tech but its not $40k like USC. The cost of living in Atlanta is not as ridiculous as Miami. This is my thought process. I don't care about paying back loans if I give myself a head's up price range on how much I'm willing to pay.

I don't consider DPT a marketing gimmick. Direct Access is a potential privilege that physical therapist can use to contribute to the profession and not to necessarily reel in more naive graduate students into the DPT program. It is a pretty ignorant approach if you ONLY take into consideration the cost of private school tuition and disregard cheap instate tuition or even out of state tuition. Sometimes you just have to put your pride aside. I want a Ferrari (USC) but can see myself from a realistic standpoint affording a Tacoma, Volvo, etc... (Texas Tech) and will be stretching it with a BMW (University of Miami). Cost of living is like the insurance attached to the car or the school one chooses. I know horrible analogy...HORRIBLE...

 

[PT15years]

Let me tell you what the real issue is---it's the debt now. That's just awesome that the "student DPT" with his idealistic view of the world and healthcare states how he is "in for the patient care." Talk to me in twenty years when you are still paying off your debt. There are forums riddled with 28 year olds who only now realize their strategic error---you don't go into 130K debt for a 60K salary because golly gee you really want to be a PT.

Second--most of you will hate the profession now. I travel--solely so I can pick good clinics and see patients one on one. Most of you won't have the guts or fortitude to stand up and do the right thing. You'll see three patients an hour or dovetail all day long in skilled nursing frantically trying to catch up on your paperwork. This profession lost its ethics about a decade and a half ago. So after five years you'll despise what you do and still be over 100K in debt.
But do what you like do goodies--and reap what you sow.

 

[Ndebt]

There's no way this guy made it to PT school he can't put a sentence together.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[SloanTriumph]

You guys have to realize shills are being paid to bad mouth the DPT degree over the internet. It's funny how every physical therapy forum on the internet has more threads bashing DPTs then praising them. Wouldn't you think that a website dedicated to physical therapy would have a bias towards supporting DPTs???? There is plenty of money in physical therapy. The truth is that just like every other careers PTs only get rich working more then 40 hrs a week, or by opening their own practice.

Guys you won't get rich working for some shmuck, in rural indiana (insert any fly over state).

That being said opening your own practice is a very tangible goal and something you should strive for if money is that big of a concern.

Chiropractors are paying PR companies to bad mouth the DPT degree over the internet.

Before I got into DPT school i did event planning, some of those events were for chiropractic conventions. Chiropractors HATE dpts and will do anything to spread doubt over their legitimacy and limit the number of DPTs generated each year. Guys the Money is there, don't let anyone scare you. In the long term DPTs are a huge threat to the chiropractic industry.

DPT is a waste, that's why every DPT program in the country is getting thousands of applications. Everyone is stupid, except the guys in this thread bad mouthing DPT. /saracsm

ALSO, military DPTs can already write prescription and order scans. its only a matter of time before civilian DPTs are able to do the same. The DPT degree is new, the changes are coming and we're right at the forefront of it all.

PT15Years, the guy who revived this zombie thread only has 2 posts and made this account very recently, both of his two posts are just him bad mouthing the profession. The site needs to actively ban these people.

 

[HipFan]

You guys have to realize shills are being paid to bad mouth the DPT degree over the internet. It's funny how every physical therapy forum on the internet has more threads bashing DPTs then praising them. Wouldn't you think that a website dedicated to physical therapy would have a bias towards supporting DPTs???? There is plenty of money in physical therapy. The truth is that just like every other careers PTs only get rich working more then 40 hrs a week, or by opening their own practice.

Guys you won't get rich working for some shmuck, in rural indiana (insert any fly over state).

That being said opening your own practice is a very tangible goal and something you should strive for if money is that big of a concern.

Chiropractors are paying PR companies to bad mouth the DPT degree over the internet.

Before I got into DPT school i did event planning, some of those events were for chiropractic conventions. Chiropractors HATE dpts and will do anything to spread doubt over their legitimacy and limit the number of DPTs generated each year. Guys the Money is there, don't let anyone scare you. In the long term DPTs are a huge threat to the chiropractic industry.

DPT is a waste, that's why every DPT program in the country is getting thousands of applications. Everyone is stupid, except the guys in this thread bad mouthing DPT. /saracsm

ALSO, military DPTs can already write prescription and order scans. its only a matter of time before civilian DPTs are able to do the same. The DPT degree is new, the changes are coming and we're right at the forefront of it all.

PT15Years, the guy who revived this zombie thread only has 2 posts and made this account very recently, both of his two posts are just him bad mouthing the profession. The site needs to actively ban these people.

I'm not a paid schill, but PT15YRS is right in his assessment.

 

[SloanTriumph]

Again, This is HipFan's first post and a brand spanking new account. PT15yr is not correct at all. The DPT is the future and DPT's are on their way to more responsibilities and autonomy. There is not better time to be a DPT then now.

 

[HipFan]

I agree with much of sloans post. You will not be wealthy working for others or not working far more than 40 hours/week. That said, the economics of the situation as it applies to the dpt were laid out clearly, albeit somewhat callously by pt15. As to the notion of disregarding people's opinions because it is your first exposure to them...not a good path to understanding others views (and ironically empathy and open-mindedness will prove to be more predictive regarding your success in PT than anything you learn in class). Stay your course Sloan since your enthusiasm suggests you'll do whatever it takes to suceed, but today's students need to have completely open eyes as to the realities. I could sign off as pt30yr, so I have alot of gratitude to the profession as I have built a life with it.

 

[PT15years]

I'm not a paid schill, but PT15YRS is right in his assessment.

Thanks. I check these every once in awhile. I'm a PT--now 17 years in. The PT profession has become a ruse made of charlatans and there are few exceptions. When the exception speaks truth, he receives a snarl from the rule. But I'm not the one who needs to be mad--I'm not the one paying off the 130K loan. Oh and for the military PT. I took on the military when I worked it too--because their protocol was to see a patient for an eval and then a re eval a month later. While a medic tech did all the group exercises and e-stim. For the military PTs--don't even pretend you are actual PTs.

 

[jblil]

Somebody must be really bored, to dig up a thread from 2009.

Every profession has its challenges, its fans and its detractors. Folks embarking on a doctorate program should have enough mental horsepower to weigh the pros/cons and decide for themselves. Talk up the profession and you sound like a Pollyanna, criticize it and you sound like sour grapes. Let folks make up their own minds.

 

[Smash Atoms]

The grass is always greener...

I often wonder when people despise the career they are in if it is fear or familiarity that keeps them in?

 

[jblil]

Of course. Fear of the unknown, inertia and pure laziness will make one stay in, even though one may be absolutely miserable.

However, it becomes a lot easier after you have made the leap once or twice. I have changed careers a few times and have no qualms about leaving this one as soon as I get bored with PT.

 

[NewTestament]

Life is too short to do things you don't want to do. Consider your best options at this moment and take it. Don't ever fall for the "sunk cost" fallacy.

 

[jblil]

You mean, "sunk costs" fallacy? ;-)

 

[NewTestament]

You mean, "sunk costs" fallacy? ;-)

Thanks, jblil. I just edited my post. But "sunk cause" has a nice sound.

 

[PT15years]

PT here

 

[PT15years]

PT here---let me explain something. You are not a specialty doctor with your DPT. You went to PT school post an irrelevant degree. A specialty doctor is a medical doctor or chiro or podiatry doctor. And the shrinks. You went to a PT school that got extended to justify a DPT mainly by extending the internships. And some fluff. I seriously believe most of you think we didn't have differential diagnosis or imaging or pharmacology in our curriculum. We did. The core of PT is the same. Yes there are advances---as in med school and any medical school. It doesn't make you a specialty doctor outside of academia. And an English professor wouldn't stop at the scene of an accident and say "be calm, I'm a doctor." And neither should any of you. You also don't do a real thesis. And don't bring up the research paper we all did with questions that we all completed during our research methods course and call that orals. It isn't the same caliber as a graduate thesis--period. You don't teach lower level courses---because you didn't go to PT school and then specialize like they do with a Masters in Australia. You don't do anything that a graduate student does---which is why the only thing the DPT did was put you well over 100K in loans. That's why insurances don't reimburse direct access mostly---and they are right.
And you don't deserve direct access. How many of you see 15-20 plus patients a day in OP? Or dovetail all day long in skilled? Or keep seeing the same chronic pain patients continuously when really their problem is lifestyle? Obesity to be specific. Most of you. Most of you are unethical and many are fraudulent. Our profession is a complete joke now.

But the ego of the PT is still there I see as it was two decades ago.

 

[truthseeker]

wow somebody is bitter

 

[jblil]

@PT15years: out of curiosity, are you still working as a PT? If I were so turned off by a profession, I'd do my best to get out of it asap. Why macerate in disgust while there are more constructive things to do?

 

[deleted797640]

Open access. You prescribe exercises specific to your patients injury no?

 

[DPTTELl]

Someone was not having a good day