Pod School and GPA

[NormColeman4MN]

How many peeps have perfect GPA's at your school? I heard that one program has over 20 people with 4.0. I thought that this is extremely rare in any medical program. Can anyone elaborate?

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[PodunkUDPM]

Could be true.... 20/500 students or so. I'm curious too, what is the rate at other schools?

 

[air bud]

i am doing well at DMU, but only a few months in. I can think of one person out of all 57 that even has a chance....unfortunately it is not me...

 

[165007]

Could be true.... 20/500 students or so. I'm curious too, what is the rate at other schools?

I don't know anyone that has a 4.0 after completing the first year at Barry.

I remember speaking to an OCPM student from the class of 2011, she mentioned there were a handful of people with 4.0 gpa.

 

[244869]

out of 500 students?? no way. OCPM cannot have more than 400 or so students for all 4 years. In order to "maintain" a 4.0 you need to have had atleast 1 year...so that removes incoming freshman from the running. The rate at OCPM is 22 (according to a student who just interviewed) out of ~300.

 

[NormColeman4MN]

out of 500 students?? no way. OCPM cannot have more than 400 or so students for all 4 years. In order to "maintain" a 4.0 you need to have had atleast 1 year...so that removes incoming freshman from the running. The rate at OCPM is 22 (according to a student who just interviewed) out of ~300.

Ok so about 14% of OCPM kids have perfect grades. If all things are equal, you would think kids at Des Moines would be more likely to have this (higher GPA/MCAT for DMU students). I don't get it, why so many 4.0's at OCPM?????? I know Ohio does not have plus or minus grades but it still does not make sense. You NEVER find MD, DO, or other DPM programs where more than 10% of the class have perfect grades. Is it something in the water?

 

[air bud]

that plus minus thing is interesting. interesting as in dumb. huge difference between an 81 and 89. i like going by percentages better. At dmu, gpa is calculated by percentages, and when it comes time for clerkships, you have the option of releasing your grades as a percentage or as grade point.

 

[air bud]

also, in response to Norm, the DMU avg. mcat dropped to 23 this year. huge difference in 23 and 25 averaged out across 57 people. we will see how this translates down the road.

 

[Feli]

that plus minus thing is interesting. interesting as in dumb. huge difference between an 81 and 89. i like going by percentages better. At dmu, gpa is calculated by percentages, and when it comes time for clerkships, you have the option of releasing your grades as a percentage or as grade point.

A lot of grad and medical progams don't have plus minus. There is plenty of whining, lobbying for grade "bump," and overall complaining among students with 4 levels of grade: A/B/C/F. Imagine if there were 8: A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C, C-, F. To go even further with minimizing grade quarreling, a fair amount of medical schools even gone to mostly pass/no pass in the basic science courses...
http://hms.harvard.edu/admissions/default.asp?page=detailed#section%207

Barry has whole letter grades along with a fair amount of pass/no pass mixed in, and they are also the only pod school (to my knowledge) that doesn't rank students. Yeah, it frustrates you when you make an 89.1% B etc in a course, but there is probably a lot less catty and envious behavior when you don't know exactly where you're ranked anyways. The whole letter grading usually averages out, though, and you might make an 80.6% B in another course. For the ppl who consistently get 89, 88, 87, 89, etc in the whole grade system... oh well. That's what clerkships are for: proving why your clinical skill set, work ethic, and knowledge base does (or does not) correlate with your gpa.

I think the ideal system would probably be the % grading but not publishing student rank. The % system eliminates any ties for graduation honors/awards, but after dozens of hard courses, you usually don't have ties anyways unless the professors tend to give out A's like Halloween candy (ie "school X" mentioned above). The % system is sorta wacky to read on transcripts, though; I wish they'd provide a clear and easy way to convert it. The way I though up (100=4.0, 95=3.67, 90=3.33, 85=3.00, etc) still makes the DMU clerkship apps look much lower gpa on avg. As it stands, it's a bit hard to compare a 87% student to 10 others from different schools who are all have a regular gpa on the 4.0 scale.

 

[darazon]

Seems odd that OCPM has one of the lowest entrance requirements, yet has an extremely high amount of students with 4.0s.

If that's right, something is not right there.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

Seems odd that OCPM has one of the lowest entrance requirements, yet has an extremely high amount of students with 4.0s.

If that's right, something is not right there.

They probably also have the must # of students so that isn't really a valid point. Maybe if someone wants a great research project they should investigate the % of students with a 4.0 at each school.

 

[NormColeman4MN]

They probably also have the must # of students so that isn't really a valid point. Maybe if someone wants a great research project they should investigate the % of students with a 4.0 at each school.

Sounds like zero to 1 or 2% at 8 of the 9 pod schools and 14% at "school X."

 

[AnkleBreaker]

Don't count on CSPM to give you a 4.0 the first year...they just added two extra courses for next semester....making that a total of 7 classes a week excluding the labs i believe.

 

[NormColeman4MN]

Don't count on CSPM to give you a 4.0 the first year...they just added two extra courses for next semester....making that a total of 7 classes a week excluding the labs i believe.

What classes they adding (and why)? Seems like your school loves to have loadzzz of lecture time! I read that 2nd/3rd year have a 10 or 11 hour day. Idk how beneficial this is - doesn't seem like more lecture time = higher board scores.

 

[air bud]

yeah, 10 or 11 would suck. at DMU we have 4, 5 tops. Most days are 3, and that is rough enough. Then again, with lectures recorded and some that don't have attendance, my days are more like 1 hour or 2 hours of lecture.

 

[215353]

out of 500 students?? no way. OCPM cannot have more than 400 or so students for all 4 years. In order to "maintain" a 4.0 you need to have had atleast 1 year...so that removes incoming freshman from the running. The rate at OCPM is 22 (according to a student who just interviewed) out of ~300.

I can def confirm this. I recently interviewed at OCPM and during the financial aid presentation I was told that 22 students received a half tuition scholarship last year for maintaining a 4.0 gpa.

All I can say to this is that at least they were upfront about this fact.

 

[NormColeman4MN]

I can def confirm this. I recently interviewed at OCPM and during the financial aid presentation I was told that 22 students received a half tuition scholarship last year for maintaining a 4.0 gpa.

All I can say to this is that at least they were upfront about this fact.

What I do not understand is this...the school with the highest amount of 4.0's has the lowest (or near lowest) pass rate on Part 1 of the boards (76%). Kind of makes ya wonder who they are accepting over there...

Overall, Big class size sucks you just let in more idiots

 

[165007]

What I do not understand is this...the school with the highest amount of 4.0's has the lowest (or near lowest) pass rate on Part 1 of the boards (76%). Kind of makes ya wonder who they are accepting over there...

Overall, Big class size sucks you just let in more idiots

So thats the pass rate, not the first time pass rate for this year?

 

[PodunkUDPM]

So thats the pass rate, not the first time pass rate for this year?

That would be the 1st time pass rate... we had 20 (maybe less?) people not pass the first time. Our class size is 105 so I think it is really around an 80% 1st time pass rate, but whatever...

 

[NormColeman4MN]

That would be the 1st time pass rate... we had 20 (maybe less?) people not pass the first time. Our class size is 105 so I think it is really around an 80% 1st time pass rate, but whatever...

One student (2010) told me the 1st time pass rate was 76%.

It's kind of funny how every school seems to be above the national average. With the overall first pass rate of 81%, there MUST be schools dragging down the average (Barry, Ohio?)

 

[PodunkUDPM]

One student (2010) told me the 1st time pass rate was 76%.

It's kind of funny how every school seems to be above the national average. With the overall first pass rate of 81%, there MUST be schools dragging down the average (Barry, Ohio?)

I'm class of 2011. For our class the rate was officially 80%. I just looked up my email records.

 

[215353]

I'm class of 2011. For our class the rate was officially 80%. I just looked up my email records.

what the hell Dean Lott told me the first time pass rate was a 92% when I interviewed at ocpm this past october

 

[PodunkUDPM]

what the hell Dean Lott told me the first time pass rate was a 92% when I interviewed at ocpm this past october

That could be for everyone combined (Class of 2011 combined with the retakes from 2010.) But I can guarantee you the Class of 2011 first time pass rate was 80%.

 

[air bud]

when you say 2010 retakes, do you mean people who didn't pass it the second time and had to wait until the next year?

 

[janV88]

I mentioned this in the other thread that talks about board pass rates. Make sure you know which part, part 1 or part 2, and which class you are talking about when throwing around pass rate numbers.

PodunkUDPM says the pass rate for part 1 c/o 2011 is 80%.

studywithfury, maybe Dean Lott was talking about the pass rate for part 2 c/o 2009.

 

[air bud]

I mentioned this in the other thread that talks about board pass rates. Make sure you know which part, part 1 or part 2, and which class you are talking about when throwing around pass rate numbers.

PodunkUDPM says the pass rate for part 1 c/o 2011 is 80%.

studywithfury, maybe Dean Lott was talking about the pass rate for part 2 c/o 2009.

while possible, that is unlikely. That is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[janV88]

while possible, that is unlikely. That is putting the cart before the horse.

It is very likely...notice how no one has even mentioned if they are talking about part 1 or part 2. And part 2 pass rates are less about the school curriculum/faculty and more about their clinical rotation sites.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

when you say 2010 retakes, do you mean people who didn't pass it the second time and had to wait until the next year?

Yes, that is what I was referring to.

 

[dtrack22]

It is very likely...notice how no one has even mentioned if they are talking about part 1 or part 2. And part 2 pass rates are less about the school curriculum/faculty and more about their clinical rotation sites.

Why would a dean give incoming students part II pass rates to PRE-PODS? Unless of course he/she was purposely trying to deceive the applicant? Regardless, the 92% still makes ZERO sense since the average first time pass rate for part II was 79% in 07 (and has hovered slightly above or below the rates for pt I, meaning you should expect a rate in the high 70's low 80's in 08 and 09)

http://www.nbpme.info/PDFs/spring2008.pdf

Either way it's unlikely IMO

 

[215353]

Why would a dean give incoming students part II pass rates to PRE-PODS? Unless of course he/she was purposely trying to deceive the applicant? Regardless, the 92% still makes ZERO sense since the average first time pass rate for part II was 79% in 07 (and has hovered slightly above or below the rates for pt I, meaning you should expect a rate in the high 70's low 80's in 08 and 09)

http://www.nbpme.info/PDFs/spring2008.pdf

Either way it's unlikely IMO

Thank you dtrack22...

This is the same exact thinking I have been having all along. Why would I care what the part II boards passing rate was when I am asking this question to an authority figure of the Podiatric medical school during my interview?

So is 92% fact or fiction?

 

[janV88]

Part 1 and part 2 are completely different exams. If you did not know...part 1 tests basic sciences while part 2 tests clinical science.

So think about it. Which is more important in podiatry...knowing the krebs cycle or knowing how to treat a navicular stress fracture? This will answer why a PRE-POD should care about part 2 pass rate.

Why can't OCPM have a high part 2 first time pass rate? What is the basis of this assumption? Is there something about the school you know about?..or is it just hearsay on SDN?

Now about the deception issue...this is entirely debatable. How many threads or posts on SDN have been asking about board pass rates? A lot. Now how many answers have actually specified which part they are answering about? Almost none. I guess based on your assumptions SDN posters are deceiving pre-pods...

 

[air bud]

this is where pre-pods don't have the proper perspective. It is not like the first two years are just a waste. I won't say it is impossible, but you can't be clinically strong if you don't have the scientific framework in place. When I listen to some of the pods present cases to us, I am surprised how often they refer back to things that we have already learned in just the first few months.
Also, and I don't want this to be bashing on certain schools in bigger cities, but pre-pods on here all the time talk about what awesome, busy clinics theirs schools have. Realize that in year 3, you don't really know what is going on. You are going to need to take your time and won't be able to handle too much. Who cares if you see some cool, somewhat rare deformity. This is the time to learn how to recognize and treat the bread and butter of what your future practice will be. So while DMU may not get a huge amount of trauma, you will see plenty of the basics. You can see a more diverse set of stuff in your 4th year, which is often not even at your specific school. Residency is for the advanced training, your school is for the basic training.

 

[air bud]

So along these lines, I am only a first year. Could some 3rd and 4th years please offer some insight to this? Do you think a good number of the things you see in clinic and are really truly understanding could be seen at any and all schools?

 

[dtrack22]

So think about it. Which is more important in podiatry...knowing the krebs cycle or knowing how to treat a navicular stress fracture? This will answer why a PRE-POD should care about part 2 pass rate.

I don't think you get it, but here's an example of why part I should be MUCH more important to YOU than part II. I'll make it quick...Part I comes before part II (if you did not know), fail to pass part I and you can't be a podiatrist. Pretty simple, right?

As air bud said, a lot of clinical training has strong roots in the didactic (prob why you do the didactic first, then the clinical and not the other way around). Focus on that and you'll pass both boards no matter where you go to school.

 

[janV88]

dtrack22, if you fail part 2 you don't become a podiatrist. AND first time pass rates for part 2 are less than part 1. Please explain your point further. I seem to not "get it".

air bud, I am not saying that the first 2 years are not important. I am merely pointing out that the clinical portion is also important. The clinical years will show you how to use your basic science knowledge in practice. The fact that the part 2 first time pass rate is lower than part 1 should be reason enough for pre-pods and underclassmen pod students to take part 2 very seriously.

To say that part 2 is unimportant or MUCH less important than part 1...is just plain ignorant. BOTH are important.

 

[dtrack22]

Here's part I vs. part II scores from 2005-2007 from the NBPME website

National Passing Data
Year Part I Part II
2004 82% 84%
2005 83% 80%
2006 81% 80%
2007 81% 79%

You're right, students are less successful on part II than part I. On average, part II has about 3-4 more kids fail than part I. If you read the report you'll notice that about 100 fewer students took part II...those 100 had yet to (some never did/will) pass part I.

Nobody ever said part II wasn't important. What they are attempting to say is that somebody who hasn't even taken their first class shouldn't be worried about part II of the boards. We get what you mean in that it is important to make sure a school still does a good job at prepping kids for part II...no really, we get it. But look at the data! The difference in pass rates is not going to make or break anyone's decision.

Right now Jan, you are the 17 year old worrying about his/her MCAT score and which college will give him/her the best chance at med school and you haven't even taken the frickin SAT Was I the only one that got the "cart before the horse" analogy used earlier?

 

[215353]

Here's part I vs. part II scores from 2005-2007 from the NBPME website

National Passing Data
Year Part I Part II
2004 82% 84%
2005 83% 80%
2006 81% 80%
2007 81% 79%

You're right, students are less successful on part II than part I. On average, part II has about 3-4 more kids fail than part I. If you read the report you'll notice that about 100 fewer students took part II...those 100 had yet to (some never did/will) pass part I.

Nobody ever said part II wasn't important. What they are attempting to say is that somebody who hasn't even taken their first class shouldn't be worried about part II of the boards. We get what you mean in that it is important to make sure a school still does a good job at prepping kids for part II...no really, we get it. But look at the data! The difference in pass rates is not going to make or break anyone's decision.

Right now Jan, you are the 17 year old worrying about his/her MCAT score and which college will give him/her the best chance at med school and you haven't even taken the frickin SAT Was I the only one that got the "cart before the horse" analogy used earlier?

Amen brotha amen...

I agree that part II boards are very important. It is a lot more difficult to apply the vast amount of information you have learned in a clinical setting then to simply recall it. This is what I FEEL (not what i KNOW) is the difference btw part II & part I.

I think any pre-pod going into an interview, asking about board scores, is really only concerned with part I board passing rates. This is why students pay tuition in the first place. Your investing your money in the institution to teach you what you need to know. YES it's true, a lot of being prepared for part I is based on YOUR EFFORT as well BUT the school should be held more responsible. If this wasn't the case then what exactly are you paying +25K per year on? Like someone else said, we might as well have online Podiatry schools and take the part I when we feel we have a handle on the information. Podiatry school isn't like this though, so students should be concerned about the part I passing rates at a school.

Also, part I passing rates are not based solely on the level of teaching going on at X and Y podiatric medical schools. Maybe X and Y let students in with merely a "pulse" or students with a less than stellar sGPA, cGPA, MCAT, etc. This makes it less likely (but not gauranteed) that these students will pass part I, the first time, thus dragging down the passing % at the school.

So these are things that every student should be considering when they receive the part I passing % from an admissions person or Dean of the school.

Lastly, through these discussions, I think we have determined that since part II passing rates are historically LOWER then part I then the figures given to students, during their interviews, should be considered the part I passing rates.

 

[janV88]

I don't even understand what we are arguing here. Part 2 is important right. So why not take the 30 seconds and ask the school for it. Then take another 30 seconds to rate the school based on that. It is not time consuming or futile. The school you go to does have a affect on the percent that will pass part 2.

Your analogy is flawed dtrack22. If you can't see why...then take off your blinders.

studywithfury, not all schools have a lower part 2 first time pass rate than part 1. Scholl historically has a slightly higher part 2 than part 1.

 

[whiskers]

It could depend on how many relatives are going through school.

 

[newbold18]

The official pass rate for NYCPM c/o 2011 is 98.6%. I have been told that this was the highest in the country.

 

[165007]

The official pass rate for NYCPM c/o 2011 is 98.6%. I have been told that this was the highest in the country.

Highest in the WORLD!!

 

[jonwill]

The official pass rate for NYCPM c/o 2011 is 98.6%. I have been told that this was the highest in the country.

I'm sure most kids at most schools eventually pass the boards. The IMPORTANT question is the first time pass rate.

 

[oncogene]

The official pass rate for NYCPM c/o 2011 is 98.6%. I have been told that this was the highest in the country.

First time pass rate for the DMU class of 2011 was 98% and the official pass rate was 100%. We had one student fail the exam at the first offering.

 

[Feli]

The official pass rate for NYCPM c/o 2011 is 98.6%. I have been told that this was the highest in the country.

Hmmm.... "NYCPM" and "highest pass rate in the country" alll together in the same sentence?

...Are you certain this was 2011 and not 1911, back when NYCPM was the only pod school?