Pointers for first rotation?

[nscs]

This question is mostly directed to those already in the program but those who are doing their first summer rotation this year please chip in...same for anyone else too!

What advice do you have for those who will be matriculating this year and doing a summer rotation? As in, what should we expect to get out it/contribute to the lab?

I've been told to try and master one technique per rotation and not to expect to actually collect any data. I plan to do an 8 week rotation and nothing else and last summer when I was in the lab AND studying for the MCAT I was still able to collect enough data to amount to a substantial amount of a publication or (if things had gone my way) it's own stand alone publication. Is it foolhardy to try to go in and get down a technique pat, collect some data, and work on writing stuff up during the first quarter/semester MSI ... am I thinking too much about this??

The reason I ask is not so much that I'm publication hungry but because I was told that if wanted to work in a particular lab for my thesis I should spend ~3 rotations in other different labs learning ~3 techniques/theories/trains of thought that would ultimately be useful for the potential thesis lab. BUT, I kinda would like to try doing something outside of my area of interest just to try it and isn't the whole point of doing rotations to find a lab that's comfortable for the thesis?

Thanks!

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[pseudoknot]

ASK THE PI!!!

Seriously, if you're going to do a rotation, sit down with the PI and ask them exactly these questions. No one will think it's bad if you ask about what's expected of you and what you can do to succeed.

Oh, and if you're able to get a stand alone publication in a 3 month rotation, you should avoid that lab because they aren't doing real science.

 

[PostalWookie]

A really good thing to do is not to piss off any other people in the lab. We had a rotation student who kept borrowing reagents without asking, and then one friday left an MD/PhD student's -20 open for the rest of the weekend. I am sure that the threats of retribution helped him make the decision not to stay in the lab

 

[linuxizer]

Oh, and if you're able to get a stand alone publication in a 3 month rotation, you should avoid that lab because they aren't doing real science.

Enh. Depends on what field, how generous the PI is, etc. Simple papers are possible to publish that quickly given luck and hard work. They tend to be smaller problems that don't really fit in anywhere else but are critical to the development of the field--this may be just the sort of work that would be great if you're learning a technique, because the people already invested in the field won't find it worth their time to do.

 

[mendel121]

I don't agree a 3 month project is a portion of a paper, not a paper. Real good science just takes longer regardless of the field. Also a PI that lets something out after that short of a time probably has unreasonable expectations and should be avoided. Doing an MD/PhD is hard enough without an ass for a PI, you don't need that pressure. I think that technique/rotation idea is a good one, plan for that but don't be crushed if it doesn't happen. Rotations are to learn and scout out PIs, use them that way.

Enh. Depends on what field, how generous the PI is, etc. Simple papers are possible to publish that quickly given luck and hard work. They tend to be smaller problems that don't really fit in anywhere else but are critical to the development of the field--this may be just the sort of work that would be great if you're learning a technique, because the people already invested in the field won't find it worth their time to do.

 

[linuxizer]

I don't agree a 3 month project is a portion of a paper, not a paper. Real good science just takes longer regardless of the field. Also a PI that lets something out after that short of a time probably has unreasonable expectations and should be avoided. Doing an MD/PhD is hard enough without an ass for a PI, you don't need that pressure. I think that technique/rotation idea is a good one, plan for that but don't be crushed if it doesn't happen. Rotations are to learn and scout out PIs, use them that way.

So I have perhaps overstated my case, but I do believe it occasionally happens. If every paper coming out of a lab is that short, then there is a major problem. However, I do believe that coming up with enough data in 3 months is possible for the rapid communications section of major journals. If rapid comm. isn't considered a 'paper,' then I can entirely understand where the disagreement is happening--and I'm wrong. If it is, then I stand by my point. I can PM you an example if you want.
None of this is to say that you should expect such a publication, and in that I certainly agree with the wiser posters on this thread: use the rotations for scouting out a PI and for learning, not for getting papers.
--Ari

 

[mendel121]

So I have perhaps overstated my case, but I do believe it occasionally happens. If every paper coming out of a lab is that short, then there is a major problem. However, I do believe that coming up with enough data in 3 months is possible for the rapid communications section of major journals. If rapid comm. isn't considered a 'paper,' then I can entirely understand where the disagreement is happening--and I'm wrong. If it is, then I stand by my point. I can PM you an example if you want.
None of this is to say that you should expect such a publication, and in that I certainly agree with the wiser posters on this thread: use the rotations for scouting out a PI and for learning, not for getting papers.
--Ari

I'll agree with that, a brief communication or something like that is on the order of the sort of thing that can happen, but you're right certainly not to be expected. By my thinking (and probably in the minds of thesis committees) a brief communication needs more support to stand on its own - you know the kind of thing you do to stop yourself from being scooped when the science is there but not quite complete. Just my thoughts, I'm by no means the expert.

 

[logos]

It probably depends on the field and the lab. In the field I do work in now (enzymology), it would totally be possible to produce sufficient data for a complete paper in about three months. You could also do it in crystalography (if you're lucky) or synthetic chemistry, and probably others.

 

[wisteria318]

I completely agree with jrdn. You need to talk to individual PIs because even at the same instiution, department, etc., each PI has their own opinions on the purpose of a rotation. I've talked to two PIs from the same department they have different views. Some will say the main purpose of a rotation is to get to know the lab and perhaps pick up some techniques whereas others will say that you want something to show for the rotation, meaning significant data and results. I'm assuming you're talking about UW and I think it will be very difficult to continue research in MSI, at least the first 5 weeks since this year they are doing all of anatomy and only anatomy, which I assume will be very time-consuming. One PI I talked to pretty much said you won't have time during MSI to continue research while another PI I talked to there said a student continued research during MSII. Again, these are issues that you should talk to your potential PI about.