POLL: Genius vs. Hard Work

[rjgennarelli]

What would you rather be known for? Note: just because you vote for one doesn't mean you can't be the other! The question asks what would you rather be recognized as.

I would personally rather be known for my hard work, because at least then, people would know that I am always trying my best.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Scarletbegonias]

They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

[rjgennarelli]

no they don't, but in this case, you can only be recognized as one.

 

[Shredder]

a genius can always work hard at will but a hard worker cannot necessarily be a genius. i think hard work goes a long way, but at the very highest levels genius/innate talent matters most. nobody really envies hard workers like they do geniuses

 

[Medinsane]

i dont think im a "genius" just smarter than your average bear and plus if you really want to be a doctor than you need to be a hard worker at times

 

[it.]

a genius can always work hard at will but a hard worker cannot necessarily be a genius. i think hard work goes a long way, but at the very highest levels genius/innate talent matters most. nobody really envies hard workers like they do geniuses

true. with that said, i'd rather be recognized as a genius. truly innovative and creative work, however, often is a result of a mixture innate talent and "hard work" (read: play, as the work is joyful for the person)

 

[rjgennarelli]

a genius can always work hard at will but a hard worker cannot necessarily be a genius. i think hard work goes a long way, but at the very highest levels genius/innate talent matters most. nobody really envies hard workers like they do geniuses

I don't think you quite understood my post. read my previous post.

 

[rjgennarelli]

Here it is if you can't find it:

What would you rather be known for? Note: just because you vote for one doesn't mean you can't be the other! The question asks what would you rather be recognized as.
I would personally rather be known for my hard work, because at least then, people would know that I am always trying my best.

 

[Shredder]

Here it is if you can't find it:

okay chill out dude. anyway, i cant fathom anyone who would find it more complimentary to be called a hard worker than to be called a genius. hard workers are a dime a dozen, geniuses arent. there, i hope youre happy now.

 

[nicholonious]

What would you rather be known for? Note: just because you vote for one doesn't mean you can't be the other! The question asks what would you rather be recognized as.

I would personally rather be known for my hard work, because at least then, people would know that I am always trying my best.

I'm surprised to see 18+ seeing themselves as "geniuses". This word is seriously being used out of context. Newton was a genius. Einstein was a genius. Michaelangelo, Galileo, Stephen Hawking, etc...I would consider geniuses.

Sorry, I am just personally irked on how people can quickly label another person a genius. I have been in college and heard peers talk to each other and refer to one of the "A" students as a genius. Way out of context!

 

[nicholonious]

okay chill out dude. anyway, i cant fathom anyone who would find it more complimentary to be called a hard worker than to be called a genius. hard workers are a dime a dozen, geniuses arent. there, i hope youre happy now.

I second what you say shredder. But are there any geniuses out there that aren't hardworking?

 

[CTG]

I'm surprised to see 18+ seeing themselves as "geniuses". This word is seriously being used out of context. Newton was a genius. Einstein was a genius. Michaelangelo, Galileo, Stephen Hawking, etc...I would consider geniuses.

Sorry, I am just personally irked on how people can quickly label another person a genius. I have been in college and heard peers talk to each other and refer to one of the "A" students as a genius. Way out of context!

I don't think anyone's labeling him/herself. People are just saying they would rather be known as geniuses.

 

[Shredder]

I second what you say shredder. But are there any geniuses out there that aren't hardworking?

sure, something like kumar. those people you see with probably bad grades but sky high IQs and test scores. my tennis coach always had a saying, hard work beats talent when talent doesnt work hard. so there are certainly geniuses out there who are slacking, maybe potheads as i have seen some of them. as for genius out of context, its kind of a relative term. if you compare it to einstein and such then likely nobody on sdn or anyone we know is really a genius. in the end genius is something that comes naturally and is much more valuable than hard work, which anyone can do.

 

[45408]

In some ways, I'd rather be considered a hard worker, because some people will hold it against you if you're really intelligent.

 

[rjgennarelli]

sure, something like kumar. those people you see with probably bad grades but sky high IQs and test scores. my tennis coach always had a saying, hard work beats talent when talent doesnt work hard. so there are certainly geniuses out there who are slacking, maybe potheads as i have seen some of them. as for genius out of context, its kind of a relative term. if you compare it to einstein and such then likely nobody on sdn or anyone we know is really a genius. in the end genius is something that comes naturally and is much more valuable than hard work, which anyone can do.

I agree with what you said Shredder. Genius is a very vague term, and it is useless without hard work. btw, i didn't mean to be mean. Sorry.

 

[nicholonious]

sure, something like kumar. those people you see with probably bad grades but sky high IQs and test scores. my tennis coach always had a saying, hard work beats talent when talent doesnt work hard. so there are certainly geniuses out there who are slacking, maybe potheads as i have seen some of them. as for genius out of context, its kind of a relative term. if you compare it to einstein and such then likely nobody on sdn or anyone we know is really a genius. in the end genius is something that comes naturally and is much more valuable than hard work, which anyone can do.

Interesting point. Weird you brought that up. This guy I know (Currently Harvard Med) did nothing BUT smoke weed everyday in high school. But the guy is a neurosurgery think tank, meaning, that's his knack and its seems almost predestined.

 

[nicholonious]

I don't think anyone's labeling him/herself. People are just saying they would rather be known as geniuses.

Again, this is about how oneself wants to be recognized as, implying that they can safely parellel themselves with ranks as genius. This is all speculative, and obviously the grey areas means theres no way to tell who really is/isn't a genius. Age old debate here.

 

[deuist]

As the Dean at Uniformed Services University said, "You don't have to be a genius to be a doctor. You just have to be smart and hard worker."

 

[it.]

As the Dean at Uniformed Services University said, "You don't have to be a genius to be a doctor. You just have to be smart and hard worker."

helps to be one though if you want to push medicine forward

 

[abraxas]

i wish i was a genius...

 

[Shredder]

helps to be one though if you want to push medicine forward

good point, hard work maintains the status quo but smarts build the future

 

[it.]

all this talk about genius, but nobody has really defined it, so its still a little vage on this thread, so let's try to get this cleared up. imo, the most important ingredients for genius are smarts, creativity, ingenuity, and intuition; i like to think that hard work typically naturally follows. how do you guys define genius?

 

[nicholonious]

all this talk about genious, but nobody has really defined it, so its still a little vage on this thread, so let's try to get this cleared up. imo, the most important ingredients for genious are smarts, creativity, ingenuity, and intuition; i like to think that hard work typically naturally follows. how do you guys define genious?

My dad and I really touched on this topic as we felt it was loosely defined at times. Its really hard to assign it to an individual, because it is practically impossible to gauge intellegence (besides all these standardized tests), there are so many anomalies out there (Austism, see reference of Rain Man) of amazing things that are "types" of genius, but may not follow into the general impression we have of defining a "genius".

I just feel that its applied to too many people, then it starts to lose merit. Genius are the outliers, the rare and few that only happen so often. This is all opinion, so I'd love to hear others.


Seacrest OUT!

 

[it.]

Seacrest OUT!

seacrest? here?

 

[nicholonious]

seacrest? here?

It, have you seen American Idol? Ryan Seacrest, their beloved/annoying host always says that when he signs off.

 

[espbeliever]

I'm surprised to see 18+ seeing themselves as "geniuses". This word is seriously being used out of context. Newton was a genius. Einstein was a genius. Michaelangelo, Galileo, Stephen Hawking, etc...I would consider geniuses.

Sorry, I am just personally irked on how people can quickly label another person a genius. I have been in college and heard peers talk to each other and refer to one of the "A" students as a genius. Way out of context!

a genius by technical def would depend on the test, and then deviation assumed from the ave population. therefore depending on the test, someone with a iq of 155 by that test may not nessesarily be a genius, while somoene with iq of 145 would be by another.

this is a totally relative term, and statistically the ave pop iq has been increasing, meaning either statistically there are more genius level scorers, which goes against the definition, or all of humanity is fast approaching a normative iq level that is indicative of a populationg well fed and instructed.

further, there are many levels of genuis. whereas hitler may have been considered a rhetoric genius, his iq was below qualifying scores. einstein, newton, and others with historically high scores are at a "high genius" level. these are people characterized by the ability to grasp the fundamental picture, and realize new meaning/laws behind motives or life. typically their work is never fully utilized in their lifetime. you could liken these to excellent lawmakers.

"regular genius" level is characterized by someone who grasps the fundamental picture and fully considers various angles of pathways within that boxed picture. rarely are new concepts developed, but all current concepts are carefully wieghed to exact a very efficient course of action. you could liken these to excellent lawyers.

while this is not always the case, these two pictures are the general mold they fit.

 

[Scarletbegonias]

being known as a hard worker must be earned, while being known as a genius is not (genetics and nature at work, not you), at least for the most part, regardless of whether being a genius is regarded more highly than being a hard worker.

 

[espbeliever]

being known as a hard worker must be earned, while being known as a genius is not (genetics and nature at work, not you), at least for the most part, regardless of whether being a genius is regarded more highly than being a hard worker.

for the time being that would be mostly true. i believe one day we will finally grasp what makes some ppl genius and others not, and basically work to make everyone as such.

at any rate, this society does not idolize hard work, it idolizes random talent...

 

[rjgennarelli]

for the time being that would be mostly true. i believe one day we will finally grasp what makes some ppl genius and others not, and basically work to make everyone as such.

at any rate, this society does not idolize hard work, it idolizes random talent...

Our society may not idolize hard work, but it definitely admires it.

 

[it.]

It, have you seen American Idol? Ryan Seacrest, their beloved/annoying host always says that when he signs off.

yes, i have seen american idol. i was trying to be funny...quite apparent now that i'm not so good at that

 

[DrBowtie]

This kinda reminds me of the fortune cookie I got today
"At 20 years of age the will reigns; at 30 the wit; at 40 the judgement."
I thought this kinda mirrored medical education process.
Pre-med, Med, Resident.

 

[nicholonious]

yes, i have seen american idol. i was trying to be funny...quite apparent now that i'm not so good at that

I am bad at detecting sarcasm. heh.

 

[Orth2006]

What would you rather be known for? Note: just because you vote for one doesn't mean you can't be the other! The question asks what would you rather be recognized as.

I would personally rather be known for my hard work, because at least then, people would know that I am always trying my best.

If one is a genius then they wont need to work hard because they will be working smarter and thus more productive. So I choose genius - make my life easier.

 

[espbeliever]

If one is a genius then they wont need to work hard because they will be working smarter and thus more productive. So I choose genius - make my life easier.

yet if you are known as a genius, ppl will expect more from you, thusly either forcing you to work harder than the norm, or if you chose to work normal or less, you will be remembered as the lazy know it all...

 

[it.]

all this talk about genius makes me just so curious about the neurobiological basis of genius. i kinda just want to pick at some genius' brain now.

p.s. What if one day we isolate the genetic substrate for genius? Geniuses could identify each other, mate, make tons of baby geniuses, and then take over the world?! No. We gotta nip this in the bud! I, It., hereby declare these geniuses as my mortal enemies. Who is with me?! Death to geniuses!!!

 

[AOne]

all this talk about genius makes me just so curious about the neurobiological basis of genius. i kinda just want to pick at some genius' brain now.

p.s. What if one day we isolate the genetic substrate for genius? Geniuses could identify each other, mate, make tons of baby geniuses, and then take over the world?! No. We gotta nip this in the bud! I, It., hereby declare these geniuses as my mortal enemies. Who is with me?! Death to geniuses!!!

A prof of mine at berkeley was one of the infamous group who got to dissect einstein's brain...Dr. Diamond(a genius in my book, and a hard-working one at that). She told us that, of note, Einstein had increased myelination, thereby increasing signal propogation speed...

 

[vhawk]

being known as a hard worker must be earned, while being known as a genius is not (genetics and nature at work, not you), at least for the most part, regardless of whether being a genius is regarded more highly than being a hard worker.

Biological determinism. Thats my response to this post.

 

[it.]

A prof of mine at berkeley was one of the infamous group who got to dissect einstein's brain...Dr. Diamond(a genius in my book, and a hard-working one at that). She told us that, of note, Einstein had increased myelination, thereby increasing signal propogation speed...

that sounds reasonable. higher signal propogation speed --> more computational power. i wonder if this also applied to the rest of the nervous system. with his more efficient and powerful nervous system, perhaps he would have quicker reflexes, better motor control too? overall just an enhanced human?

 

[espbeliever]

A prof of mine at berkeley was one of the infamous group who got to dissect einstein's brain...Dr. Diamond(a genius in my book, and a hard-working one at that). She told us that, of note, Einstein had increased myelination, thereby increasing signal propogation speed...

yea, basically his brain had more fat haha

 

[nicholonious]

all this talk about genius makes me just so curious about the neurobiological basis of genius. i kinda just want to pick at some genius' brain now.

p.s. What if one day we isolate the genetic substrate for genius? Geniuses could identify each other, mate, make tons of baby geniuses, and then take over the world?! No. We gotta nip this in the bud! I, It., hereby declare these geniuses as my mortal enemies. Who is with me?! Death to geniuses!!!

It,

Well, scientists analyzed Einstein's brain post-mortem and found high concentration of glial cells, much more than normal people. Not quite sure what the connection was, but it most likely pertained to retention of memory, complex thought, unique connections within the cerebral cortex, etc.

I read this in a neurobiology class, and read it somewhere else in either a Neurosurgical Journal or Time magazine. My memory is bad these days, thanks to my ****ty hippocampus.

EDIT: Oops, didn't read the previous poster. Their info is more on point. disregard mine.

 

[jeffsleepy]

A prof of mine at berkeley was one of the infamous group who got to dissect einstein's brain...Dr. Diamond(a genius in my book, and a hard-working one at that). She told us that, of note, Einstein had increased myelination, thereby increasing signal propogation speed...

Dr. Diamond?? A genius?? Wow, sure didn't reflect in her lectures. A huge snorefest . With that being said, any class where you can watch only the midterm/final review lectures and still get an A is a class you should take.

 

[AOne]

Dr. Diamond?? A genius?? Wow, sure didn't reflect in her lectures. A huge snorefest . With that being said, any class where you can watch only the midterm/final review lectures and still get an A is a class you should take.

well maybe the line between being senile and a genius and is a fine line
i'm not sure that being an entertaing lecturer implies genius though, maybe we will soon be able to dissect her brain to see if she has increased myelination too!

 

[gary5]

Great question. In med school, you'll find two groups of people. Those who worked hard to get there and those who got perfect memory genes from their parents.

 

[Scarletbegonias]

here's a great npr "article" titled "how smart was einstein":
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4633424
There's some more articles about einstein's at npr.org
In case anyone is interested.

 

[criminallyinane]

I second what you say shredder. But are there any geniuses out there that aren't hardworking?

There are probably plenty of undiscovered latent geniuses out there who are undiscovered precisely because they are lazy. You have to do something to realize your potential, and if you just sit around watching tv all day, you may be the smartest person in the world but it won't mean beans. I think there's a lot of latent intelligence out there that is undiscovered because those people don't have access to education. There are also many geniuses who are shunned because they are neuropsychologically atypical -- for example, people with autism/aspergers. They have a way of looking at life that could really open doors if that intelliectual power is used in conjunction with that of "neurotypicals", but our society is more concerned with conformity and "fixing" these people than with seeing what they have to offer.

 

[espbeliever]

There are probably plenty of undiscovered latent geniuses out there who are undiscovered precisely because they are lazy. You have to do something to realize your potential, and if you just sit around watching tv all day, you may be the smartest person in the world but it won't mean beans. I think there's a lot of latent intelligence out there that is undiscovered because those people don't have access to education. There are also many geniuses who are shunned because they are neuropsychologically atypical -- for example, people with autism/aspergers. They have a way of looking at life that could really open doors if that intelliectual power is used in conjunction with that of "neurotypicals", but our society is more concerned with conformity and "fixing" these people than with seeing what they have to offer.

we are too stupid to communicate with many of them...

 

[liverotcod]

Speaking of geniuses, did you guys wcatch the finals of the Jeopardy Tournament of Champions earlier this week? Amazing performances.

 

[nicholonious]

There are probably plenty of undiscovered latent geniuses out there who are undiscovered precisely because they are lazy. You have to do something to realize your potential, and if you just sit around watching tv all day, you may be the smartest person in the world but it won't mean beans. I think there's a lot of latent intelligence out there that is undiscovered because those people don't have access to education. There are also many geniuses who are shunned because they are neuropsychologically atypical -- for example, people with autism/aspergers. They have a way of looking at life that could really open doors if that intelliectual power is used in conjunction with that of "neurotypicals", but our society is more concerned with conformity and "fixing" these people than with seeing what they have to offer.

My mother has been a teacher aide to teenagers with Autism and Aspergers. I have also been a teacher aide to such students. Their way of looking of life has a majority to do with their neural circuitry/network. The mechanism is so odd, it certainly lacks in cerebellar activity and conversely excels at some counting mechanisms/memory retention to the point of nutsoism (i made that word up). The ability of their being able to calculate large numbers (such as, lets say, 45620 x 134559 and get the answer within seconds) is beyond me.

 

[nicholonious]

Speaking of geniuses, did you guys wcatch the finals of the Jeopardy Tournament of Champions earlier this week? Amazing performances.

I did, I was rooting for that baldish guy with black frame glasses sportin' the beat nick theme. I wish he won it.

 

[Karina]

I'm a genius

Karina