Possible to do two years in the military or reserves?

[nancysinatra]

I am a practicing psychiatrist, competed residency a year ago, and am board certified. For the longest time I have really wanted to join the air force, or possibly the navy. I looked into this before and during med school, and during residency. The only thing holding me off, really, is that I don't want to sign away years of my life. The commitments always seem dauntingly long - especially after just getting "paroled" from residency. Does anyone know if there's a way to serve in the military for a shorter length of time? I could see committing to two years. Or even slightly longer if it's part time, like in the reserves. But I'm not sure I can promise six years or anything that long. And actually if I could do something other than psychiatry, even general basic medicine, I would be interested. Not that I would refuse opportunities in psychiatry though.

I'm talking to recruiters again, and I've scoured the various websites, but I'm still confused about the commitment lengths of the various medical officer programs... any input is appreciated!

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[DrMetal]

And actually if I could do something other than psychiatry, even general basic medicine

Possible, but not likely. If you're a bc'd psychiatrist, you're likely to be used as such (and there'll be plenty of work for you).

Most reserve commitments are 4 to 6 years long, most active duty commitments are at least 4 years long . . . and all of those numbers can get bumped up depending on what bonuses you take, what your actual contract states, etc etc. You're unlikely to get any contract less than 4 years (active duty or reserves), it's just not worth the military's time and effort.

The only thing holding me off, really, is that I don't want to sign away years of my life. The commitments always seem dauntingly long - especially after just getting "paroled" from residency.

Well then . . . don't join. If the commitment seems daunting to you (as it should), then don't bother getting involved. The military is a voluntary service, it should be taken seriously, you're not joining some queer summer camp troop.

 

[nancysinatra]

Is there a reason you would reply so sarcastically? Is that how you would talk to someone who asked the same question in real life? The first part of your response is very helpful, and I thank you for that, but the second part comes across as pretty rude. You even refer to my inquiry as if I thought I was joining some "queer summer camp troop" - exactly what are you implying? You don't know anything about me or why I would be interested in 2 years of service. I might even go as high as 4, but almost certainly not 6. I can look for short term civilian contracting opportunities just as easily, by the way. But thanks for the first part.

Moderators, can we close this thread? I regret that I asked the question. I was just looking for information and I'm sure I can get it from recruiters.

 

[DeadCactus]

While I see how his reply may have offended you, the reality is that this board regularly sees posts from people wanting to serve in the military but without having to deploy, commit, drill too often, affect their civilian life, or whatever other personal accommodation they want. It's like going to the surgery forum and asking if you can be a surgeon but without the 80 hour a week residency and taking call as an attending. Even if there are way to optimize the variables to meet your desires, it shows such a fundamental divergence from the kind of personality that would actually be a good fit for the environment that many don't find it worth discussing. The call to abandon thread over one gruff post frankly reinforces that impression.

Anyway, anyone who signs up with the military is signing for 8 years. That's 8 years of your life where the military can pop in, interrupt whatever you have going on, and send you to foreign lands or some military base in Backwoods, USA without instating a draft. You serve those 8 years either on active duty (AD), active reserve (AR), or individual ready reserve (IRR). AD is full-time military employment. AR is the 1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year type deal. IRR is basically your name on a list to be called in times of significant need. However you serve, AD+AR+IRR has to be > 8 years to complete your obligation. It's glossed over but an important fact to understand when talking about "2 year" active duty contracts.

As an attending, you may be able to find a 2 year AD contract with minimal to no bonuses. Your more likely to find them through the Army. The Navy and especially the Air Force are generally stocked well enough to be picky. A 4 year AD contract is easy. All AR contracts are going to be at least 6 years.

AR is a longer commitment but you do retain more control of your personal life and can keep your civilian professional career going. You choose where you live and who you work for full-time. There's no moving your family every 3 years. The downside is you end up with 2 bosses and have to mediate between your military obligations and civilian obligations.

 

[DrMetal]

Is there a reason you would reply so sarcastically? Is that how you would talk to someone who asked the same question in real life? .

Damn right I would. I wasnt trying to be sarcastic, was trying to be blunt and direct. It doesnt make sense to me, for you to say that youre thinking about joining the mil, but you're intimidated (or not interested in) by the commitment factor. Its tantamount to me saying I wanna be a psychiatrist, but I hate lengthy patient interviews and hate getting involved in people's lives (to which you'd rightfully reply: well then dont become a psychiatrist!)

If I read too much into your OP and you really are serious about joining, then forgive me and proceed. If youre really not interested in "sigining away" a significant chunk of your life--because thats what you might very well be doing--then dont join. You need not regret asking the question, its a good one. [Moderators: please keep this thread open. Im PCSing and bored as hell.]

 

[d2305]

All military contracts are for 8 years. Something to consider before signing.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

Damn right I would. I wasnt trying to be sarcastic, was trying to be blunt and direct. It doesnt make sense to me, for you to say that youre thinking about joining the mil, but you're intimidated (or not interested in) by the commitment factor. Its tantamount to me saying I wanna be a psychiatrist, but I hate lengthy patient interviews and hate getting involved in people's lives (to which you'd rightfully reply: well then dont become a psychiatrist!)

If I read too much into your OP and you really are serious about joining, then forgive me and proceed. If youre really not interested in "sigining away" a significant chunk of your life--because thats what you might very well be doing--then dont join. You need not regret asking the question, its a good one. [Moderators: please keep this thread open. Im PCSing and bored as hell.]

Give the guy a break..he should be commended on his desire to serve at all and become a member of the 1%. If the military was smart and savy (which they clearly are not), they would allow 2 and 3-year contracts to entice more physicians onto active duty so they were not constantly understaffed. This is not infantry or armor where officers make the equivalent or even more than what they could in the civilian world. What other category of officers have a retention rate < 10%? Military medicine will continue to be run buy a bunch of OER self-promoting monkeys on a flagpole. I mean, come on, how do you think a civilian medical center would function if it's CEO changed EVERY 2 YEARS and if that CEO was constantly auditioning for his next job? It's amazing that medical care can be delivered at all.

NancySinatra, run the other way and if you want to serve do so as a GS employee or a contractor. Military medicine is broken and only getting worse. I have seen this first-hand as a now former active duty otolaryngologist at Womack AMC for the last 7 years Stay away.

 

[Army Recruiter]

I am an Army Medical recruiter (AMEDD). You can do a contract for as little as 3 years, that is the minimum, however if you were to take advantage of Loan repayment or the sign on bonus, your contractual obligation would be longer. As for the 8 year number, that is considered MSO (Military Service Obligation), everyone that joins in any aspect of the Military has an 8 year MSO. As an example: Let's say you commission in the Army Reserve for 3 years as a 60W (Psychiatrist) and accept the $75,000 bonus. Your contract would be for 3 years at 1 weekend per month and 2 weeks during the summer. Then at the end of those 3 years, you would still have 5 years left of your MSO. You could continue in the reserve or be put in the IRR (Inactive Ready Reserve). The IRR is simply a list of available personnell that could be called back into the service in time of extreme conflict.
Note: The IRR is a large portion of the reason we no longer have a draft.

I hope this helps and this information is specific to Army, but the sister services are similar, if not the same.

 

[honkfactory]

Well then . . . don't join. If the commitment seems daunting to you (as it should), then don't bother getting involved. The military is a voluntary service, it should be taken seriously, you're not joining some queer summer camp troop.

This really isn't a helpful answer. It isn't unreasonable to inquire if a branch of our military offers the opportunity to serve for two years. And just because it seems that none do, it doesn't necessarily mean that they shouldn't.

 

[DrMetal]

Give the guy a break..he should be commended on his desire to serve at

You dont get commendations for desiring to serve ... You get them for actually serving. My previous point stands: you cant say you want to join the military but you're not willing to commit some significant portion of your life (again, not that the OP was saying this exactly, but the point is still a valid one). You're not joing some casual organization that you can easily walk away from. You of all people should be emphasizing my point.

 

[DrMetal]

This really isn't a helpful answer. It isn't unreasonable to inquire if a branch of our military offers the opportunity to serve for two years. And just because it seems that none do, it doesn't necessarily mean that they shouldn't.

I'll take this opportunity to explain something to you, that hopefully others will heed as well. When you come onto SDN here, you'd shouldn't be looking for any official information (numbers regarding contract years, payback commitments, etc etc). That information should be garnered from more official sources. You should look for it in official instructions, and ultimately in your official contract. You're committing to something serious, you shouldn't bank on what somebody reports on a public uncontrolled forum. [I might be totally wrong, I don't know what kind of contracts the USAR or USAFR is offering these days, it might be 2- 3-year deals, maybe you can get free T-shirt, I dunno.]

What you should be looking for here on SDN are opinions (either pro- or con, all of which can be very informative and helpful) and possibly leads to more official documents/instructions where you can find more solid answers.

So if my "opinion" here was jolting to the OP, he runs off and completely discards his idea of joining the military . . . then so be it, I probably did him a favor. On the other hand, if he's serious and continues to pursue it, learns more about it and signs up, then good on him/her.

Thicken up your skin if my bluntness/curtness bothers you. I can guarantee you, there's bigger and much grumpier fish than I in this profession.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

You dont get commendations for desiring to serve ... You get them for actually serving. My previous point stands: you cant say you want to join the military but you're not willing to commit some significant portion of your life (again, not that the OP was saying this exactly, but the point is still a valid one). You're not joing some casual organization that you can easily walk away from. You of all people should be emphasizing my point.

I don't disagree with what you are saying about the significant commitment, but that was a rather crass answer to the question. 99% of this country will never even consider serving so jumping down this guy's throat for asking a rather benign question about serving his country is uncalled for.

On another note, the military better consider changing their rules for medical officers (like allowing 2-year obligations) or they are going to find themselves without any practicing docs (only a..clowns that attend meetings and aren't competent to actually take care of sick patients or operate) in 5-10 years. The writing is on the wall. You may say it is anecdotal and it is to some extent, but the last 4 years I know of NO physician in any specialty other than primary care at my so-called MTF that extended their ADSO unless he/she was within 4 years of retirement. NO ONE. Once the economy improves, the HPSP pipeline will thin out (it always does). Add an improving economy to another war (take your pick with the Ukraine, Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc) and chaos will ensue. Grab you popcorn.

 

[aklark]

If you want to serve that population but don't want the commitment, why not take a civilian job with one of the services or the VA?

 

[244913]

I am an Army Medical recruiter (AMEDD). You can do a contract for as little as 3 years, that is the minimum, however if you were to take advantage of Loan repayment or the sign on bonus, your contractual obligation would be longer. As for the 8 year number, that is considered MSO (Military Service Obligation), everyone that joins in any aspect of the Military has an 8 year MSO. As an example: Let's say you commission in the Army Reserve for 3 years as a 60W (Psychiatrist) and accept the $75,000 bonus. Your contract would be for 3 years at 1 weekend per month and 2 weeks during the summer. Then at the end of those 3 years, you would still have 5 years left of your MSO. You could continue in the reserve or be put in the IRR (Inactive Ready Reserve). The IRR is simply a list of available personnell that could be called back into the service in time of extreme conflict.
Note: The IRR is a large portion of the reason we no longer have a draft.

I hope this helps and this information is specific to Army, but the sister services are similar, if not the same.

I got an interesting email the other day from a GS-12. He was nice enough to inform me of a long list of MEDCOM MOB opportunities which he called the "90 day boots on ground policy" or some such Army-speak.

This list included many exotic and desirable destinations, among them scenic Ft. Polk, Cuba (with an MP BN of all things- how do they not have an organic Doc/PA), Leonard Wood, Ft. Irwin, and it went on...

He closed out the email by reminding me that IRR Officers (me) are subject to involuntary recall if these positions are not filled by volunteers by x-date.

I was entirely operational my four years and I didn't see any 61N billets on there but I suppose they could always drag me back as a 62B.

Has anyone else heard of this? I always supposed that the IRR pool (for medical officers anyways) was only dipped into during emergencies. Are they starting to pull people to backfill for deployed reservists and AD docs?

Probably just a typical bureaucratic scare tactic to induce Reserve component lemmings to sign up but discomfiting nonetheless.

ex-61N (and still on a list apparently)

 

[d2305]

As I said, they own you for 8 years. They can even recall me, but things will have to be pretty bad for that.

 

[Perrotfish]

You dont get commendations for desiring to serve ... You get them for actually serving. My previous point stands: you cant say you want to join the military but you're not willing to commit some significant portion of your life (again, not that the OP was saying this exactly, but the point is still a valid one). You're not joing some casual organization that you can easily walk away from. You of all people should be emphasizing my point.

What are you talking about? You're making it sound like he's entitled for wanting to join for an unbreakable 2 year commitment rather than an unbreakable 4 year commitment. Also how did you draw the arbitrary line in the sand that a 4 year commitment is a 'significant portion of your life' but a 2 year commitment isn't? The military has offered 2 year active duty commitments many times in the past, not just for the medical corps, at the height of the Iraq war they were offering even shorter commitments for certain subspecialists. Honestly the 4 year AD commitment that most of us have doesn't even really make sense for the medical corps staffing: a normal set of orders is 3 years long. The 4 year thing is yet another example of how the military took something that makes sense for the line (4 year commitment = 1 year training you + 3 years working) and foisted it on the medical corps where it almost but doesn't quite make sense (4 year commitment = 3 years working + 1 year either extending at the same place or transferring somewhere new for just one year).

Anyway, to the OP, I think you have your answer: its possible but unlikely. A 3 year commitment is slightly more likely, but even then you would probably be paid much, much less than if you just signed up for the standard 4 year commitment and accepted the various signing bonuses they offer. Also, as many have said, be aware that at the end of your active duty commitment you will be stuck in the 'inactive reserves' until 8 years after you signed up for the military, which means you are eligible for recall in the even of a messy war or national emergency.

 

[jabreal00]

I am an Army Medical recruiter (AMEDD). You can do a contract for as little as 3 years, that is the minimum, however if you were to take advantage of Loan repayment or the sign on bonus, your contractual obligation would be longer. As for the 8 year number, that is considered MSO (Military Service Obligation), everyone that joins in any aspect of the Military has an 8 year MSO. As an example: Let's say you commission in the Army Reserve for 3 years as a 60W (Psychiatrist) and accept the $75,000 bonus. Your contract would be for 3 years at 1 weekend per month and 2 weeks during the summer. Then at the end of those 3 years, you would still have 5 years left of your MSO. You could continue in the reserve or be put in the IRR (Inactive Ready Reserve). The IRR is simply a list of available personnell that could be called back into the service in time of extreme conflict.
Note: The IRR is a large portion of the reason we no longer have a draft.

I hope this helps and this information is specific to Army, but the sister services are similar, if not the same.

Please let's stop with more speculation. It sounds like a 3 year obligation (active or reserve) followed by 5 years of IRR (name on a list) is the shortest time one can serve for.

 

[jabreal00]

I got an interesting email the other day from a GS-12. He was nice enough to inform me of a long list of MEDCOM MOB opportunities which he called the "90 day boots on ground policy" or some such Army-speak.

This list included many exotic and desirable destinations, among them scenic Ft. Polk, Cuba (with an MP BN of all things- how do they not have an organic Doc/PA), Leonard Wood, Ft. Irwin, and it went on...

He closed out the email by reminding me that IRR Officers (me) are subject to involuntary recall if these positions are not filled by volunteers by x-date.

I was entirely operational my four years and I didn't see any 61N billets on there but I suppose they could always drag me back as a 62B.

Has anyone else heard of this? I always supposed that the IRR pool (for medical officers anyways) was only dipped into during emergencies. Are they starting to pull people to backfill for deployed reservists and AD docs?

Probably just a typical bureaucratic scare tactic to induce Reserve component lemmings to sign up but discomfiting nonetheless.

ex-61N (and still on a list apparently)

Yes you could be pulled for one of these assignments theoretically but it's not likely. The reservist will be activated before someone on IRR.

 

[DrMetal]

What are you talking about? You're making it sound like he's entitled for wanting to join for an unbreakable 2 year commitment rather than an unbreakable 4 year commitment. Also how did you draw the arbitrary line in the sand that a 4 year commitment is a 'significant portion of your life' but a 2 year commitment isn't? .

I dont draw such a line, you're quite right. Hell even a 6 month commitment might be deemed significant. I was simply questioning the OP's intentions. And That's fair to do. It certainly wouldn't be the first time here that someone's posted a thread about joining and we've questioned their intentions.

The rest of your post compounds onto the confusion regarding what kind of contracts are actually available , which furthers my point that one shouldn't try to obtain any official numbers regarding such things on SDN