post-bac vs SMP to get BCMP avg. above min. threshold

[SgtGrumbles]

Hey guys, I know this has been covered broadly many times over but I have a question specifically regarding the minimum acceptable BCMP GPA, which for a lot of schools seems to be a 3.0. I'm sitting somewhere around a 2.93, and as a result would be facing an autorejection based purely on that score from many M.D. schools if I applied. If I do a post-bac and get a solid year of A's, I could raise my BCMP to just above a 3.0, however I always see people in this forum say that if your GPA is abysmal, you need to be doing an SMP. I'm a little confused about this, because I know credits earned towards a masters degree don't actually raise your undergraduate GPA, so if my BCMP is below the minimum 3.0 threshold and I complete an SMP (earning high marks), wouldn't I still likely have my application placed in the rejection stack right away since I'm still below the minimum BCMP?

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[DrMidlife]

Let's work backwards from the med school app review process.

When your app is considered by a reviewer, that reviewer has a big responsibility and a small amount of time to decide whether to put you through to the next round. You want to make it as easy as possible for that reviewer to say "yes." If your story is not straightforward, because you have red flags, you bear an extra burden of proof that you're worth keeping. You also bear the burden of making it convenient for the reviewer to see your redemption.

So with GPA damage, I suggest there are 3 important factors for maximizing your chances:

1. Have no other issues. Make yourself squeaky clean, compelling and better than average with your MCAT, extra-curriculars, recommendations and essays.

2. Provide a compelling counterexample to your transcript problems. Maybe that's another year or two of very strong undergrad performance. Maybe that's a very strong SMP performance. Maybe it's both.

3. Buff it. There is simply more shine on a GPA that starts with a 3. A GPA that starts with a 2 sticks out badly. So any of the GPAs on that app that can be buffed up to 3.x's, in a reasonable amount of time, should be buffed up.

In other words, I'm saying do all of the above.

Also, understand that SMPs aren't standardized. They aren't ranked or reviewed except on SDN (and behind closed doors at med schools). If you get into Drexel's SMPs with a 2.93, I would say that's a bad way to go, because you get very little help from Drexel to turn your SMP into a US MD acceptance. But if you get into EVMS/Cincinnati/TulaneACP with a 2.93, that would be great, because those schools effectively reserve you a seat that you can earn by doing well in the SMP.

Lastly, a low science GPA doesn't portend a strong MCAT score. You might find that you need to take more undergrad science, regardless of GPA, to get a good MCAT score.

Best of luck to you.

 

[SgtGrumbles]

Thanks for the thorough reply, I appreciate it. I took the MCAT last June and received a disappointing score of 27 (10bio 10verbal 7physical), and am currently studying to re-take the test this march.
It seems that what you're saying is that unless I get into an SMP which has a policy of granting interviews to participants that do well, then I should focus on increasing my undergrad science GPA to get it above the 3.0 mark via a post-bac program, and then after that if necessary also do an SMP, correct?

edit to say that my cumulative ugpa is a 3.30 so not spectacular there either, however the amount of credits I would need to get A's in to raise that to a 3.5 is insane due to how many I already have.

 

[DrMidlife]

It seems that what you're saying is that unless I get into an SMP which has a policy of granting interviews to participants that do well, then I should focus on increasing my undergrad science GPA to get it above the 3.0 mark via a post-bac program, and then after that if necessary also do an SMP, correct?

Yup.

EVMS/Cincy/TulaneACP do more than guarantee you an interview - these schools have solid, long-standing records of getting 80-90% of their students straight into either the host med school or another US MD school. These are small programs, so they can really get to know you, and it's legitimate to say the full SMP year is a med school audition. By the time the SMP host school interviews you, it's a formality. They already know you.

By contrast, there are programs that guarantee you an interview, but that interview doesn't come with better odds of admission than an interview granted to a stranger.

edit to say that my cumulative ugpa is a 3.30 so not spectacular there either, however the amount of credits I would need to get A's in to raise that to a 3.5 is insane due to how many I already have.

If you have 4 years of undergrad so far, my math shows that after 1 more year of a 3.7 in all science, your cuGPA would be 3.38, and your csGPA would be 3.084. With those numbers, and a 31+ MCAT, you're in good shape to get into EVMS/Cincy SMPs. (TulaneACP requires that you be on a med school waitlist to apply.) With those numbers, you could also get into Gtown/Boston/Loyola/Drexel/Tufts/RFU/etc, which wouldn't necessarily put you immediately into a US MD school - it might take another app year.

2 more years of 3.7 in all science would give you 3.43 overall, 3.19 science. If you can find schools that strongly consider postbac performance (UMiami comes to mind), then this positions you to apply US MD without an SMP.

Tough call.

 

[xDriftAway]

Yup.

EVMS/Cincy/TulaneACP do more than guarantee you an interview - these schools have solid, long-standing records of getting 80-90% of their students straight into either the host med school or another US MD school. These are small programs, so they can really get to know you, and it's legitimate to say the full SMP year is a med school audition. By the time the SMP host school interviews you, it's a formality. They already know you.

By contrast, there are programs that guarantee you an interview, but that interview doesn't come with better odds of admission than an interview granted to a stranger.


If you have 4 years of undergrad so far, my math shows that after 1 more year of a 3.7 in all science, your cuGPA would be 3.38, and your csGPA would be 3.084. With those numbers, and a 31+ MCAT, you're in good shape to get into EVMS/Cincy SMPs. (TulaneACP requires that you be on a med school waitlist to apply.) With those numbers, you could also get into Gtown/Boston/Loyola/Drexel/Tufts/RFU/etc, which wouldn't necessarily put you immediately into a US MD school - it might take another app year.

2 more years of 3.7 in all science would give you 3.43 overall, 3.19 science. If you can find schools that strongly consider postbac performance (UMiami comes to mind), then this positions you to apply US MD without an SMP.

Tough call.

Slightly reviving this thread. Hi @DrMidlife, I found this thread to be very relevant to my situation. I have a 3.0 cGPA, 2.3 sGPA, 33 MCAT. My GPAs include all of the classes I retook in which I got a D or F in. I know my sGPA is absolutely horrendous. I have a lot of Cs on my transcript. Would you recommend I do a post-bacc and ace it, followed by an SMP? OR should I just apply for an SMP and try to get a 3.7+ in it? I'm afraid that doing a post-bacc is hardly going to raise my sGPA let alone get it above a 3.0. Thank you

 

[DrMidlife]

No, you can't do anything about that GPA for MD schools.

It would be ridiculous for you to not consider DO schools. Ridiculous.

For MD or DO, you have to produce a multiple year, very heavy, mostly science, very successful undergrad academic performance. If you've already produced that, then you are in the game. If you haven't produced that, then that's what you do next.

If you already have produced a multiple year, very heavy, mostly science, very successful undergrad academic performance, then an SMP might make sense for the next thing to do. "try to get a 3.7+ in it" says to me that you're not sure you could do it. If you're not sure, then paying $50k and maybe moving cross country would be poor decision making.

DO schools have SMP or SMP-like programs that would probably help you.

Expect to need to retake the MCAT, and that your new score has to be at least on par with that 33.

Regardless, a little tough love for you: whatever is making you feel like you HAVE TO go to med school, despite that being far from reasonable for you, is most likely immaturity. Even if you're 32. The idea that ONLY med school is where you'll be happy is total bu11****. After all this insane GPA recovery work, you still have a minimum of 7 years of training AFTER you finally get an acceptance, and those 7 years are so much harder than what you're doing now that you should really, honestly think about not doing it. Are you blissfully joyfully happy doing all this schoolwork? You've never been happier than studying for and taking the MCAT? You love being so desperately in need of a program to look at you despite your stats? Really? You honestly want to do 7 more years of it to be a doctor? You will undoubtedly be in the growing club of people who spend over a half a million getting through med school, and you will most likely be in the bottom half of the class and get into a low-competition residency. Really: you're up against a dominant demographic of kids who never ever struggled. Picture yourself doing psychiatry in a prison on a reservation in a desert making $90k. Still want to be a doctor?

Best of luck to you.