Post Bac?

[Compozine]

I have a question. I know that a lot of people enter post bac programs because their GPA is not quite stellar. I have a friend who was in one of these programs while I was a sophmore in college. He told me that the it was much easier than college. He even compared some of his organic chem and bio tests with mine, and the scope of what they were learning seemed much more limited. Is this the case with post bacs? Are they "remedial," or are they equivalent to the level of work done in college?

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[MollyMalone]

I think your question will be better answered in the post-bacc forum, so I'm going to move it there.

 

[jackieMD2007]

I don't understand why you are starting this thread. From your post history, it appears that you have already applied & been accepted to schools.

It seems that you are only trying to start $hit by suggesting that post-bac programs may be "remedial" and suggesting that they are not as hard as undergrad work.

 

[TCIrish03]

I have a question. I know that a lot of people enter post bac programs because their GPA is not quite stellar. I have a friend who was in one of these programs while I was a sophmore in college. He told me that the it was much easier than college. He even compared some of his organic chem and bio tests with mine, and the scope of what they were learning seemed much more limited. Is this the case with post bacs? Are they "remedial," or are they equivalent to the level of work done in college?

All the program I looked into integrated you with the undergrads.

I hope this doesn't turn into "non-trads shouldn't be accepted to med school" Round 2

 

[GoJoeyMojo]

Informal post-bacc students take the same classes as undergrads. The only difference is their enrollment status. they're usually enrolled as unclassified students since they already finished their degree.
Formal post-bacc programs must prepare students well if they want to maintain decent success rates. If the classes were easy, the post-bacc graduates would go into med school unprepared, perform poorly and reflect negatively on the program. While I'm sure that there are some shoddy programs out there, I think you will find that the vast majority are concerned with sending well-prepared students to medical school. Their reputation is at stake. Some post-bacc programs also integrate their students into some of the same classes the first-year med students take. Not exactly "easy" classes.
Maybe your friend's program was the exception to the norm.

 

[GoJoeyMojo]

Your preoccupation with post-baccs/non-trads is strange. What gives?

 

[Kikaku21]

I have a question. I know that a lot of people enter post bac programs because their GPA is not quite stellar. I have a friend who was in one of these programs while I was a sophmore in college. He told me that the it was much easier than college. He even compared some of his organic chem and bio tests with mine, and the scope of what they were learning seemed much more limited. Is this the case with post bacs? Are they "remedial," or are they equivalent to the level of work done in college?

Ummmm. No. I will be finished with post bacc work next week. It has been just as tough as undergrad. I went to a competitive undergrad too... And I didn't major in cakewalks.

I'm sure its case by case.

 

[remo]

The OP started a big thread the other day that was basically along the lines of "there are too many non-trads" and "people shouldn't be given a 2nd chance if they screwed up during undergrad". I'm not sure why they want to get this going again.........

 

[cyclohexanol]

After having read the OP's other posts... I think it's starting to smell like the underside of a bridge in here...

I have a question. I know that a lot of people enter post bac programs because their GPA is not quite stellar. I have a friend who was in one of these programs while I was a sophmore in college. He told me that the it was much easier than college. He even compared some of his organic chem and bio tests with mine, and the scope of what they were learning seemed much more limited. Is this the case with post bacs? Are they "remedial," or are they equivalent to the level of work done in college?

 

[relentless11]

The post-bacc program at my school essentially puts you in with other undergrads, so its not different from being an undergrad. If the guy had an easier OChem class, perhaps his program only offered the lower division series of OChem courses. Some schools may only have one class, where as others may have 2 or 3.

Here at UC Davis, we have 3 OChem courses. 1) Lower division OChem for the non-health sciences, 2) Upper division OChem for the health sciences, and 3) Upper division OChem for Chem majors.

The latter 2 are obviously harder than the first. Med schools recommend that you take the more rigorous option when more than one class is offered. In a nutshell, post-bacc will never be "remedial". Post-bacc = taking more undergrad classes that are offered by the specific school. Schools with linkage programs need to adhere to some standard in regards to the school they are connected with. Its somewhat obvious that this is the case with all post-bacc programs. Otherwise it would be really easy to get 4.0's and get into med school via the post-bacc route.

 

[Tiger76]

This might seem like a stupid question, but when do people apply for the post-bac/ master programs? For example if I'm a junior right now, do people apply during the winter/spring of their senior year?

 

[pokeytu]

It depends what type of program you are applying to as to when to apply. I believe that many of the programs that fill their numbers with people who didn't get into med school or trying to raise numbers to get into a med school will take applications relatively late.

If you are looking at a typical research based master's program which takes 2-3 years you should start applying towards the middle of the first semester your senior year. Most of these programs have a deadline of the begining of Feb., but just like med schools applying early can make a difference.

 

[NY Musicologist]

I have a question. I know that a lot of people enter post bac programs because their GPA is not quite stellar. I have a friend who was in one of these programs while I was a sophmore in college. He told me that the it was much easier than college. He even compared some of his organic chem and bio tests with mine, and the scope of what they were learning seemed much more limited. Is this the case with post bacs? Are they "remedial," or are they equivalent to the level of work done in college?

As I understand it, there are at least two different kinds of formal post-bacc curricula: programs catering to "career changers" and to people seeking "academic record enhancement." There may very well be some overlap between these programs; I don't know. However, given that: a) some of these programs are offered by very well regarded institutions; b) some do integrate the post-baccs with the regular pre-meds; c) any program's continued success depends in no small part on how many students they're able to place in medical schools; and d) many post-bacc students have already demonstrated substantial achievement in other careers or academic areas, I would not go so far as to equate "post-bacc" exclusively with "remediation." Furthermore, a post-bacc certificate does not automatically translate into a medical school acceptance.

Here's a slightly different question, though: my friend's husband used to teach in a post-bacc program (I won't reveal which one), and said that although these programs can and do help some people get into med school, they also take advantage of many others' hopes and dreams by holding out the "carrot" of eventual med school admission even to those students who are unlikely ever to succeed. In this way, says my friend's husband, post-bacc programs become important revenue generators for schools. Maybe he's cynical...maybe he's correct...maybe some of both! Discuss??

NYM

 

[Instatewaiter]

Here's a slightly different question, though: my friend's husband used to teach in a post-bacc program (I won't reveal which one), and said that although these programs can and do help some people get into med school, they also take advantage of many others' hopes and dreams by holding out the "carrot" of eventual med school admission even to those students who are unlikely ever to succeed. In this way, says my friend's husband, post-bacc programs become important revenue generators for schools. Maybe he's cynical...maybe he's correct...maybe some of both! Discuss??

NYM

There are 2 types of post-bac programs: college level and graduate level.
I just finished a graduate level post-bac program (and got into medical school). There is no question most of the kids in the program did not belong there. Around the withdraw deadline about 1/3 of the class dropped out. The addmissions requirements were really low (2.8 GPA and 22 MCAT) so a lot of kids could sign up but subsequently got their butts handed to them.

Of those originally matriculating, less than 2/3 finished. Maybe 1 in 15 got into allopathic med schools. The rate med school acceptance for those that didn't get in this year is much higher over 2 years.


Of the people I know coming from the college-level post-bac programs, none are near the top of thier med school class, but they are all passing.

 

[relentless11]

There are 2 types of post-bac programs: college level and graduate level.
I just finished a graduate level post-bac program (and got into medical school). There is no question most of the kids in the program did not belong there. Around the withdraw deadline about 1/3 of the class dropped out. The addmissions requirements were really low (2.8 GPA and 22 MCAT) so a lot of kids could sign up but subsequently got their butts handed to them.

Of those originally matriculating, less than 2/3 finished. Maybe 1 in 15 got into allopathic med schools. The rate med school acceptance for those that didn't get in this year is much higher over 2 years.


Of the people I know coming from the college-level post-bac programs, none are near the top of thier med school class, but they are all passing.

NY Musicologist was referring to the two types of undergraduate post-bacc programs, which, to reiterate are application enhancers or career changers. Most are for application enhancement, while others are aimed towards those that were not pre-med before hand (e.g., Scripps). What you are referring to are either non-degree earning graduate programs, or Special Masters Programs. In terms of AMCAS, by definition, post-bacc is any undergraduate level coursework taken after receiving your bachelor's degree. Any graduate level coursework taken is considered for obvious reasons, as graduate, NOT post-bacc. Although this can be merely semantics, it is usually better to go by what is defined by AMCAS to prevent any confusion.

Anyway, this really depends on which post-bacc or SMP you go to. UC Davis' (my school) program has about an 80% success rate. While Georgetown's SMP has a pretty good success rate as well. Not the 1:15 that you speak of. This can be attributed to the fact that Georgetown puts their students into a med school curriculum, taken with med students.

Lastly, I know a few people from post-bacc programs who are currently 2nd years at our med school. They went the non-trad route (e.g., career changers), and are one of the top in their class. Same goes for one student that I knew at UCSF. Again, it really depends on where you go, where you apply to, and who you meet. But there is certainly a good distribution of the good, bad and ugly in med school and post-bacc programs. I really doubt that these programs are really for money making, since the class sizes are pretty small compared to the overall student population. There are plenty of other ways to make money off of students, rather than coming up with post-bacc programs to taunt would be pre-meds.

 

[dna111]

I know that the admissions process of post-bac programs is entirely separate from that of the medical schools' at the same university. But, is there a sliver of possibility that doing extermely well and developing a close relationship with a professor through a lab would improve one's chances of getting in to the medical school at the same university as the post-bac, say in the case of UPenn?

 

[relentless11]

I know that the admissions process of post-bac programs is entirely separate from that of the medical schools' at the same university. But, is there a sliver of possibility that doing extermely well and developing a close relationship with a professor through a lab would improve one's chances of getting in to the medical school at the same university as the post-bac, say in the case of UPenn?

Keyword in the application process is "admissions committee". Obivously it won't hurt you to have a close relationship with faculty members, but your application is reviewed by several people and thus the amount of influence one person has may not do much. Besides, the people that really push your application forward after you interview are the interviewers, and its probably unlikely that your interviewer is someone you work for.

My PI has been here for ages, and he has come to the conclusion that he or any other faculty member has little or no say in getting someone they like into our med school by asking. Maybe its because i'm at a UC, but it seems to be the same thing across the US. Now if you if you want to get into grad school, then thats a different story.

 

[DJPJ69Camaro]

Keyword in the application process is "admissions committee". Obivously it won't hurt you to have a close relationship with faculty members, but your application is reviewed by several people and thus the amount of influence one person has may not do much. Besides, the people that really push your application forward after you interview are the interviewers, and its probably unlikely that your interviewer is someone you work for.

My PI has been here for ages, and he has come to the conclusion that he or any other faculty member has little or no say in getting someone they like into our med school by asking. Maybe its because i'm at a UC, but it seems to be the same thing across the US. Now if you if you want to get into grad school, then thats a different story.

Do you think it's necessary for someone with "lower than average premed" grades to do a post-bac or Masters program to get in. Or should they repeat the premed classes they messed up in to correct the blaring "C" on their report card. Does an "A" in a post-bacc or Master's class make up for the poor premed classes in undergrad?

 

[relentless11]

Do you think it's necessary for someone with "lower than average premed" grades to do a post-bac or Masters program to get in. Or should they repeat the premed classes they messed up in to correct the blaring "C" on their report card. Does an "A" in a post-bacc or Master's class make up for the poor premed classes in undergrad?

Well if you had ONE C, who really cares aslong as your overall and science GPA are good (above 3.0). In my opinion, repeating a class you got a C in is a waste of time if you apply to MD programs since it doesn't boost your GPA by that much, and it doesn't say too much that you've improved your academic performance. It can be inferred that you at times need to take a class twice to get an A. For DO schools, retaking it will be good, especially if you do well the second time.

Anyway, if want to show improvement, you should take a more advanced undergraduate course. Try to stay away from graduate level courses as they may not convince adcoms that you have improved. For instance, if I were to get a C in General Chemistry, I can prove to the adcoms that I'm proficient in GChem by doing well in Physical Chemistry, and the MCAT.

Given a choice, I would do post-bacc or an SMP over grad school. Traditional masters programs are usually helpful to those with a decent (3.2-3.3 and above) undergrad GPA, and wanted to do more. But if GPA rehab is your goal, then you will get more bang for your efforts (not buck since its $$$$$!) if you do the post-bacc or SMP route.