Post-Interview Communication

[dermieeast]

Starting back on the interview trail next week, but realize that phase of the residency process is going to be pretty much over after the next 3-4 weeks. And...match lists are now due in about 7.5 weeks.

I was wondering if any current applicants, former applicants/residents, and/or attendings would be willing to discuss post-interview communication.
(1) What can we expect from programs? (do most end up emailing/calling you at some point? and, when does this happen...i.e. February? January?)
(2) What are programs expecting of us? (i.e. will they ask how we plan on ranking them? what language should we use? if we rank them #1, should we tell them?)
(3) Any other insights on how to navigate the post-interview communication process?

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[asmallchild]

Starting back on the interview trail next week, but realize that phase of the residency process is going to be pretty much over after the next 3-4 weeks. And...match lists are now due in about 7.5 weeks.

I was wondering if any current applicants, former applicants/residents, and/or attendings would be willing to discuss post-interview communication.
(1) What can we expect from programs? (do most end up emailing/calling you at some point? and, when does this happen...i.e. February? January?)
(2) What are programs expecting of us? (i.e. will they ask how we plan on ranking them? what language should we use? if we rank them #1, should we tell them?)
(3) Any other insights on how to navigate the post-interview communication process?

Highly dependent on program and applicant.

For what it's worth, I didn't receive any post interview communication and didn't reach out to anyone to let them know how I planned on ranking them. More often than not, the program has already ranked you by the time you've boarded your return flight home.

 

[HatsAnd Sunscreen]

1. For the most part I think programs typically stay pretty quiet so I would not expect any post-interview communication from them. If you get some then great, but not hearing anything is pretty standard so if thats the case I wouldn't stress out over it.

2. I think that once you have finished interviewing and you have a sure #1 I would let them know through a letter/email. Programs like to match residents who genuinely want to be there, and you will hear places brag about how they matched their "top X" number on their rank list which is a lot easier when they know where they are being ranked by applicants. It may or may not help your final rank position at that institution as there is plenty of variability on how the rank list is formed, but as long as you are being sincere it can't hurt you.

3. I'm not sure if there is really a consensus for programs you are not ranking #1. Some people will say that any correspondence that does not specifically tell a program that they are your top choice is meaningless. I personally sent thank you notes, to everywhere that I interviewed, thanking programs for taking the time to interview me and letting them know how much I enjoyed the experience. I sincerely doubt that these kind of notes would alter your position on the rank list, but dermatology is a small world and being thankful and gracious is never a bad thing.

 

[dermie1985]

I had a few programs that specifically told us not to send thank-you notes and that they wouldn't be contacting us about our rank on the list. (I know of friends in other specialties who were told the exact same thing but actually did end up getting phone calls too....so not even sure what this means....). Anyway, I was probably not going to send those programs a note even if I end up ranking them #1 on my list. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[Dral]

That's fine. As smallchild pointed out, a lot of programs are ranking you by the time you're getting on the plane to leave the interview. A note a week later isn't going to make the PD go back in and bump you up on the list.

If the program didn't tell you not to, you can communicate if you are miss/mr manners. Otherwise don't bother. I sent stacks and stacks of thank you notes and it didn't make a difference at all.

 

[exeunt]

i've heard that emailing a program to let them know that they're a top choice but not #1 can actually hurt you at that program--any thoughts on this?

 

[asmallchild]

i've heard that emailing a program to let them know that they're a top choice but not #1 can actually hurt you at that program--any thoughts on this?

Yes, no one likes to be told they're in 2nd place (or lower)

And it doesn't matter how you sugarcoat it. If your email doesn't specifically say you ranking someone #1, it won't benefit you and may even hurt you in rare instances. I would err on the side of not sending anything in that case

 

[MDSlacker]

What about using a general statement such as "you are one of my top choices" for your top 2-3 programs. My number one program is a program where I rotated but I feel would be a reach program and my number 2 program is a program where I think I have a strong chance of matching.

I want to email both of these programs and let them know I am strongly considering both but I don't want to tell my second choice they are my second choice, because in reality I would love to match there.

 

[juc9355]

is it enough to just tell your #1 they're you're #1 yourself? I've heard it can help to have someone from your home program (a mentor or your PD) advocate for you but i also feel like that may also just offend your home program if they're not your #1, no?

 

[asmallchild]

What about using a general statement such as "you are one of my top choices" for your top 2-3 programs. My number one program is a program where I rotated but I feel would be a reach program and my number 2 program is a program where I think I have a strong chance of matching.

I want to email both of these programs and let them know I am strongly considering both but I don't want to tell my second choice they are my second choice, because in reality I would love to match there.

Same thing. "You are one of my top choices" means "you are not #1". I would email your #1 (if you want) and to let them know. I don't think the "you are my top choice" email will help and may even hurt in some cases. I would err on the side of staying silent.

 

[asmallchild]

is it enough to just tell your #1 they're you're #1 yourself? I've heard it can help to have someone from your home program (a mentor or your PD) advocate for you but i also feel like that may also just offend your home program if they're not your #1, no?

The caveat to all my advice above is to have a mentor or your PD (particularly if they are a prominent dermatologist) reach out to your top choice and even your 2nd/3rd choices if they are willing. That can definitely change your place on the rank list.

To be honest, I would have difficulty asking my mentor or PD to call multiple places and would probably keep it to just my top choice. But if you feel comfortable enough in your relationship to have someone go to bat for you at multiple spots, all the better.

Whether or not you'll want to do that if you are eschewing your home program for another program is a personal choice. Again, I was rather close with my home chairperson and ended up ranking my home program #1. I don't think I would have felt comfortable asking her to go to bat for me at other programs. But everyone's relationship is different and if you feel comfortable enough to ask (and you feel they are receptive enough to place your happiness first), feel free to ask.

 

[Dral]

The caveat to all my advice above is to have a mentor or your PD (particularly if they are a prominent dermatologist) reach out to your top choice and even your 2nd/3rd choices if they are willing. That can definitely change your place on the rank list.

To be honest, I would have difficulty asking my mentor or PD to call multiple places and would probably keep it to just my top choice. But if you feel comfortable enough in your relationship to have someone go to bat for you at multiple spots, all the better.

Whether or not you'll want to do that if you are eschewing your home program for another program is a personal choice. Again, I was rather close with my home chairperson and ended up ranking my home program #1. I don't think I would have felt comfortable asking her to go to bat for me at other programs. But everyone's relationship is different and if you feel comfortable enough to ask (and you feel they are receptive enough to place your happiness first), feel free to ask.

I would echo this advice as I feel it is spot on. I didn't feel comfortable asking my home program for help at first, but in the end it helped immensely when matching at home program was no longer an issue.

Basically go with the above advice applied to your own personal situation.

 

[HatsAnd Sunscreen]

If you are going to send a letter to you #1 I would do it soon seeing as this is the time when rank lists are starting to be assembled.

 

[derminterview]

If a faculty advisor who is significantly involved with the ranking process at my home school offered to contact another program for me, would asking him to do so hurt my chances at my home program you think?

 

[asmallchild]

If a faculty advisor who is significantly involved with the ranking process at my home school offered to contact another program for me, would asking him to do so hurt my chances at my home program you think?

I would stress that your desire is to match at your home program but if he/she offered to contact another program for you, I would take advantage of that generous offer.

 

[Medicine123abc]

I matched last year. Out of the 15 places I interviewed at, 6 reached out in various forms via text, email or phone call from PD or Chair anywhere from 6 weeks from the rank list deadline to 2 days. I didn't receive communication from places my good friends did (thus, these programs liked them more). So yes, places that want you will let you know. From my personal experience, how you respond and deal with the post-interview communication game does make a difference.

1. Do not tell anyone that they are 'one of your top choices.' They know what it means. You know what it means. No one cares that they are your number 2 or number 3 choice. If you get contacted, then a simple "it would be an honor to train at your program" suffices.
2. 100% LET YOUR NUMBER 1 KNOW. The downside: it does nothing. I highly doubt a program pushes you down because you showed some enthusiasm.
The upside: it bumps you up a spot.
The real upside: they respond and say 'see you in 2 years'...making the next few months just a little less agonizing.
3. I didn't ask my mentor to call on my behalf; you can message the PD yourself.
4. I wouldn't tell more than one program that you are ranking them number 1. I know some people who have. It may backfire since Dermatology is so small. But if you only had 3 interviews, then.....
5. Mentors: if you have a mentor that you really really trust and isn't directly involved in picking residents for your home program, they can poke around and see how your favorite program feels about you. Typically, these mentors at your home program can give you a sense of how your home program feels about you already. If you're not FEELING the love from your home program and they are giving you lukewarm messages about your position on the rank list, then I would think much more heavily about throwing my weight into a program that does feel more strongly about you.

 

[DermatoFIGHT]

The communication thing is a really nasty game. The match should be done away with because programs and applicants are in situations of dishonesty which is no way to start a working relationship. Programs have asked me in interviews "what are you ranking us". If you did not say you are my number 1, you were 100% dropped in ranking (confirmed personally). If they ask tell everyone you are my top choice.

If you email say, I love the program and I want to work with you, I hope you feel the same way and look forward to matching with you. You didn't discuss ranking and you showed enthusiasm to work with them.

That would be my advice, this whole match system is just garbage. I hate this process and what it does to people.

 

[HatsAnd Sunscreen]

Just to be clear, it is not okay for any program to ask or in any way coerce you into saying where you are ranking them or any other program and that would certainly be a violation of the match. Also I think that is be a pretty big red flag if a program tries to pressure applicants to move them up your list. I know it doesn't seem like it in a competitive specialty like dermatology where there are so few spots, but the match is designed to favor the applicants. You have no incentive to rank programs in any other fashion other than based on what you think would be the best fit for you.

 

[DermatoFIGHT]

Just to be clear, it is not okay for any program to ask or in any way coerce you into saying where you are ranking them or any other program and that would certainly be a violation of the match. Also I think that is be a pretty big red flag if a program tries to pressure applicants to move them up your list. I know it doesn't seem like it in a competitive specialty like dermatology where there are so few spots, but the match is designed to favor the applicants. You have no incentive to rank programs in any other fashion other than based on what you think would be the best fit for you.

Yes it is a match violation but it does happen regardless of that. It did happen to me personally and other friends of mine. We did not know how to respond because we never expected that to occur. The match favors the applicant when it is less competitive programs (IM/FM). However, lots of PD want to feel like they are your main catch and the ego plays to that. Lots of programs like to brag "we always get our #1" and this is why. From what I have encountered on the match, I have been disappointed.

 

[asmallchild]

Yes it is a match violation but it does happen regardless of that. It did happen to me personally and other friends of mine. We did not know how to respond because we never expected that to occur. The match favors the applicant when it is less competitive programs (IM/FM). However, lots of PD want to feel like they are your main catch and the ego plays to that. Lots of programs like to brag "we always get our #1" and this is why. From what I have encountered on the match, I have been disappointed.

If I recall correctly, you are an osteopathic applicant? I've heard multiple stories about "shady" dealings in the osteopathic application process. While I'm sure they still occur on the allopathic side, these kinds of violations are fortunately rarer.

FWIW, my experience was zero contact from any of the 10 places I interviewed, still matched at my #1.

 

[derminterview]

If I recall correctly, you are an osteopathic applicant? I've heard multiple stories about "shady" dealings in the osteopathic application process. While I'm sure they still occur on the allopathic side, these kinds of violations are fortunately rarer.

FWIW, my experience was zero contact from any of the 10 places I interviewed, still matched at my #1.

I know n=1 but this is relieving. Crazy about the poster above getting contact from almost half of the places he interviewed.