Postbacc GPA repair - diminishing returns

[mehc012]

Hey SDN,
Looking for some advice here on my DIY postbacc.
I graduated 2yrs ago with no intention of going to medical school - the thought hadn't even crossed my mind. 6mo later I found myself, finally, certain of what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. Unfortunately, not having had that conviction in undergrad, my GPA was fine, but not med-school-fine.

OK, it was under a 3.2.

Over the past 1.5yrs, I have managed to take 8 or so science courses (4.0 gpa postbacc), bumping my GPA up to a measly 3.3 even. I had hoped to be able to bring it up to a 3.4 or a 3.5, but unfortunately I took an average of 17 credits/semester while in undergrad, so there is a lot to overcome and not much time to do it - I plan to apply next June.
There are still 2 semesters to go before that time...however, I have also been working hard on addressing other areas of my application which were deficient. In the past year, I have consistently pulled off 2 courses while working 2 other jobs and volunteering, but now I have managed to land an awesome internship opportunity, and I really don't think I can do more than 1 course this semester. I would also like to cut back during the months leading up to the actual application submission, so that I can focus on the AMCAS itself.

I guess my point is, given how many other things I have going on, and the fact that I will probably not hit a 3.4 even if I push myself to the brink, is it time to call it quits on the GPA repair? Is enough enough at a 3.3, or is that low enough that every little bit counts? Do I have to wait a whole extra year and pull it up to a 3.4?

I can do it...I can continue taking multiple courses while working 60hr weeks and commuting hours daily. But I am starting to get tired. My inclination is to let my postbacc, as short as it was, speak for itself - I can pull a 4.0 in tough classes while also working my butt off. I have fixed my time management issues from college. I know my material (my MCAT should demonstrate this; I tend to do well on standardized tests and the MCAT is looking to be the same deal). Maybe I didn't get my GPA where I wanted to, but I feel as if I showed what I needed to. My question is, will the adcoms be able to see this, or am I still in the land of auto-reject?

(No, I do not plan to apply DO this cycle. Maybe next year)
(Yes, I am taking the MCAT this year; I don't want to deal with the new one).

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[Holmwood]

Hey SDN,
Looking for some advice here on my DIY postbacc.
I graduated 2yrs ago with no intention of going to medical school - the thought hadn't even crossed my mind. 6mo later I found myself, finally, certain of what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. Unfortunately, not having had that conviction in undergrad, my GPA was fine, but not med-school-fine.

OK, it was under a 3.2.

Over the past 1.5yrs, I have managed to take 8 or so science courses (4.0 gpa postbacc), bumping my GPA up to a measly 3.3 even. I had hoped to be able to bring it up to a 3.4 or a 3.5, but unfortunately I took an average of 17 credits/semester while in undergrad, so there is a lot to overcome and not much time to do it - I plan to apply next June.
There are still 2 semesters to go before that time...however, I have also been working hard on addressing other areas of my application which were deficient. In the past year, I have consistently pulled off 2 courses while working 2 other jobs and volunteering, but now I have managed to land an awesome internship opportunity, and I really don't think I can do more than 1 course this semester. I would also like to cut back during the months leading up to the actual application submission, so that I can focus on the AMCAS itself.

I guess my point is, given how many other things I have going on, and the fact that I will probably not hit a 3.4 even if I push myself to the brink, is it time to call it quits on the GPA repair? Is enough enough at a 3.3, or is that low enough that every little bit counts? Do I have to wait a whole extra year and pull it up to a 3.4?

I can do it...I can continue taking multiple courses while working 60hr weeks and commuting hours daily. But I am starting to get tired. My inclination is to let my postbacc, as short as it was, speak for itself - I can pull a 4.0 in tough classes while also working my butt off. I have fixed my time management issues from college. I know my material (my MCAT should demonstrate this; I tend to do well on standardized tests and the MCAT is looking to be the same deal). Maybe I didn't get my GPA where I wanted to, but I feel as if I showed what I needed to. My question is, will the adcoms be able to see this, or am I still in the land of auto-reject?

(No, I do not plan to apply DO this cycle. Maybe next year)
(Yes, I am taking the MCAT this year; I don't want to deal with the new one).

Do well on the MCAT and apply broadly, and you should be fine. (Yes, even DO schools. DOn't be afraid of them. DO read up on them. Okay, I'll stop. hee hee)

Have a look see:

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

You've got a sporting chance so long as you got a 30 or above on the MCAT for MD schools at least.

From what I can see, if you do not get into any MD school of your choice, you would still have a shot at a DO in the same cycle. Apply to both. This is better than hoping for a MD/DO school next cycle as a reapplicant. It's hard being a reapplicant, so you want to do it right the first time.

 

[mehc012]

Do well on the MCAT and apply broadly, and you should be fine. (Yes, even DO schools. DOn't be afraid of them. DO read up on them. Okay, I'll stop. hee hee)

Have a look see:

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

You've got a sporting chance so long as you got a 30 or above on the MCAT for MD schools at least.

From what I can see, if you do not get into any MD school of your choice, you would still have a shot at a DO in the same cycle. Apply to both. This is better than hoping for a MD/DO school next cycle as a reapplicant. It's hard being a reapplicant, so you want to do it right the first time.

I have looked into DO schools. I'm not afraid of them. I would just rather attend an MD school. This is not a "DOs are bad" thing or whatnot, it's just a "DOs don't seem like as good of a fit for me" thing. If I don't get in MD this cycle, I will apply to both MD and DO the next time around...my MCAT should be good for that long, at least.

I've only taken 2 AAMC FLs at this point, so it's too soon to be sure, but my current average is a 40 (38 and 42) and I still have a few chapters of material to cover which cost me a few straight-knowledge questions in both. I sit the exam next week (only 2 FLs so far because I prioritized the SAs, as timing is a complete nonissue for me and the SAs had more questions per dollar, especially for VR).

And that table is exactly what scares me...I always assume that the acceptances are clustered in the upper ends of those buckets, which means at a 3.3, even if I do manage to pull a 38+, I'm sitting below 60% odds...and that assumes that my ECs are on par with everyone else in that group!

 

[Holmwood]

I have looked into DO schools. I'm not afraid of them. I would just rather attend an MD school. This is not a "DOs are bad" thing or whatnot, it's just a "DOs don't seem like as good of a fit for me" thing. If I don't get in MD this cycle, I will apply to both MD and DO the next time around...my MCAT should be good for that long, at least.

I've only taken 2 AAMC FLs at this point, so it's too soon to be sure, but my current average is a 40 (38 and 42) and I still have a few chapters of material to cover which cost me a few straight-knowledge questions in both. I sit the exam next week (only 2 FLs so far because I prioritized the SAs, as timing is a complete nonissue for me and the SAs had more questions per dollar, especially for VR).

And that table is exactly what scares me...I always assume that the acceptances are clustered in the upper ends of those buckets, which means at a 3.3, even if I do manage to pull a 38+, I'm sitting below 60% odds...and that assumes that my ECs are on par with everyone else in that group!

Most people's ECs are not up to snuff though. So make sure it's worth talking about and you have a better chance than most.
Just apply broadly on the safe side though.

That chart tells me I have a 40 % chance of getting in (thank you ethnicity). And I'm still applying. : O Tee hee. So have some courage ~

Head on over to MDapplicants.com and post your predicted stats if you need some more moral support.


STILL

If it makes you feel better to raise that gpa to a 3.4, then do so. I do not think it would give you that much of a competitive edge though (others can correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[mehc012]

Most people's ECs are not up to snuff though. So make sure it's worth talking about and you have a better chance than most.
Just apply broadly on the safe side though.

That chart tells me I have a 40 % chance of getting in (thank you ethnicity). And I'm still applying. : O Tee hee. So have some courage ~

Head on over to MDapplicants.com and post your predicted stats if you need some more moral support.

Haha, I'm good on the moral support front - I don't like to use the internet for that...just looking for some idea of whether it's worth the effort to continue working on the GPA repair.
My ECs are alright; I have a lot of sports, music, chem nerdery, bio research, tutoring, and leadership from pre-premed, a few hundred in a super-hands-on clinical volunteering position, a year of fulltime scribing, a cool internship, a biotech job, and some shadowing since I switched gears.

 

[Holmwood]

Haha, I'm good on the moral support front - I don't like to use the internet for that...just looking for some idea of whether it's worth the effort to continue working on the GPA repair.
My ECs are alright; I have a lot of sports, music, chem nerdery, bio research, tutoring, and leadership from pre-premed, a few hundred in a super-hands-on clinical volunteering position, a year of fulltime scribing, a cool internship, a biotech job, and some shadowing since I switched gears.

Maybe you'd feel more assured if you talked to someone related to the application process.

I know a friend of mine is also in the same situation with even less amazing ECs, and she was able to talk to an adcom at UCLA and discuss her options. Maybe you should talk to one in the school you're interested in!
As an aside, SDN, though a great resource, is not the best place to be looking for definitive answers. Too much neuroticism. : S

 

[mehc012]

Maybe you'd feel more assured if you talked to someone related to the application process.

I know a friend of mine is also in the same situation with even less amazing ECs, and she was able to talk to an adcom at UCLA and discuss her options. Maybe you should talk to one in the school you're interested in!
As an aside, SDN, though a great resource, is not the best place to be looking for definitive answers. Too much neuroticism. : S

No, seriously, I'm good on the moral support front at home and with friends. I do plan on talking over some app stuff with an old work acquaintance of mine, as I recently found out that he is actually the head of an MSTP adcom (a wonderful example of 'something I probably would have noticed if I had ever considered med school before graduation'), but I'd rather wait until I'm closer to the date and then ask his thoughts.

And I'm well familiar with SDN's neuroticism - it is actually quite useful at times. After all, if the neuroticism center of the interwebz agrees that busting my butt to go from a 3.3 to a 3.3-something is a waste of effort, then it's probably a waste of effort, no? So if the consensus is "meh, focus on non-classwork", that's helpful, and if there is no consensus, or it remains "yeah, the extra 0.05 would be helpful to you" then I'm back where I started, nothing lost!

In the end, I'll probably end up discussing it with my fam and going from there, but I usually find SDN threads useful for making decisions, either because adcoms such as the inimitable @Catalystik @Goro @LizzyM contribute something I would never have been able to know on my own, or because in the midst of some bizarre polarizing debate which crops up, I find myself arguing one side without planning on it...and voila! I realize what my decision is.

By the way, sorry for tagging all of you in this post...I recognize that it's a low-level decision and doesn't really need adcom input, and I don't expect any. However, I would like to take this opportunity, while I am explaining how useful I have found this forum, to thank all of you for your contributions and efforts. SDN wouldn't be half the site it is without members such as yourselves!

 

[mehc012]

If you don't care what allopathic school you get into, apply with the 3.3 if you have a super high MCAT score. You will probably get some interview invites. What do you have to lose at this point?

Oh aye, I shall apply either way. It's more of a decision between 'apply with a 3.3' or 'apply with a 3.35 after pushing my limits to do so for another 6mo'.
It is frustrating at times that taking a semester's worth of courses makes such a small impact, which makes it harder for me to tell whether I'm making a rational 'the gain is not worth the effort' decision, or just an irrational 'agh, I am not getting anywhere, screw this' choice.

 

[Catalystik]

Hey SDN,
Looking for some advice here on my DIY postbacc.
I graduated 2yrs ago with no intention of going to medical school - the thought hadn't even crossed my mind. 6mo later I found myself, finally, certain of what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. Unfortunately, not having had that conviction in undergrad, my GPA was fine, but not med-school-fine.

OK, it was under a 3.2.

Over the past 1.5yrs, I have managed to take 8 or so science courses (4.0 gpa postbacc), bumping my GPA up to a measly 3.3 even. I had hoped to be able to bring it up to a 3.4 or a 3.5, but unfortunately I took an average of 17 credits/semester while in undergrad, so there is a lot to overcome and not much time to do it - I plan to apply next June.
There are still 2 semesters to go before that time...however, I have also been working hard on addressing other areas of my application which were deficient. In the past year, I have consistently pulled off 2 courses while working 2 other jobs and volunteering, but now I have managed to land an awesome internship opportunity, and I really don't think I can do more than 1 course this semester. I would also like to cut back during the months leading up to the actual application submission, so that I can focus on the AMCAS itself.

I guess my point is, given how many other things I have going on, and the fact that I will probably not hit a 3.4 even if I push myself to the brink, is it time to call it quits on the GPA repair? Is enough enough at a 3.3, or is that low enough that every little bit counts? Do I have to wait a whole extra year and pull it up to a 3.4?

I can do it...I can continue taking multiple courses while working 60hr weeks and commuting hours daily. But I am starting to get tired. My inclination is to let my postbacc, as short as it was, speak for itself - I can pull a 4.0 in tough classes while also working my butt off. I have fixed my time management issues from college. I know my material (my MCAT should demonstrate this; I tend to do well on standardized tests and the MCAT is looking to be the same deal). Maybe I didn't get my GPA where I wanted to, but I feel as if I showed what I needed to. My question is, will the adcoms be able to see this, or am I still in the land of auto-reject?

(No, I do not plan to apply DO this cycle. Maybe next year)
(Yes, I am taking the MCAT this year; I don't want to deal with the new one).

To better answer your question:

How many postbac credit hours do you have?
What classes?
CC or Uni?
What is your BCPM GPA and (if you know) sGPA without the math?
What is your home state?

Why are you working 60 hour weeks and burning yourself out? Especially right before taking the MCAT.
Maybe you could also mention what active clinical experience you have accumulated as well as shadowing hours and nonmedical community service.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

If you've already taken (or plan on taking Biochem) and 2-3 bio courses above the intro level, then I don't see a need to burden yourself even more for a small gpa bump. With your EC's, the significant upward trend you've demonstrated, and a high MCAT score you should feel confident!

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

.

 

[mehc012]

To better answer your question:

How many postbac credit hours do you have?
What classes?

I have 26 postbacc credit hours, all 4.0, and all science courses. I had to take both Physics, but other than that they've been Bio courses - A&P, Neuro, Hematology, MedMicro, Cardiac Physio, etc.

CC or Uni?

Neither - Extension courses. There were no close unis and CCs didn't have upper-level sciences (I was a chem major who took every Microbio course offered at my school in UG)

What is your BCPM GPA and (if you know) sGPA without the math?

BCPM gpa is the same as my overall, 3.2ish prior to postbacc and now 3.3 even. Without math it would be slightly higher, as I took only one course (I completed both calcs in HS) and got a 2.7 in it.

What is your home state?

Sadly, I'm in Cali. However, I have significant ties to MA and VA, having lived in both for multiple years and having close family who live in both. I graduated HS in VA, though they're not one of the states which counts that automatically, more's the pity. I have no desire to remain on the west coast.

Why are you working 60 hour weeks and burning yourself out? Especially right before taking the MCAT.

To be fair, I cut back to 48hrs for MCAT prep, and it seems to be going just fine according to AAMC FLs. I could have done a better job if I'd taken more time, sure, but if I swing a 38+ I'll be happy (40+ I'd be ecstatic!) Those seem to be in the cards, though it won't be over until I've got that score report, of course.
But in all honesty, my reasons are twofold: a) I am happier and more productive when I'm slightly overbusy rather than having too much free time. Right now I'm a bit past the sweet spot, but it's still better than being underloaded. b) I have never had a career goal or passion before, and so when it became clear to me that I really did want to pursue medicine, I decided that the most important thing to do was to get every clinical experience I could manage in order to see if my newfound conviction held up in the face of reality. So, while I had to get a biotech job to pay the bills, when a scribing opportunity came up, even requiring full-time hours and an hour commute each way for shifts, I jumped at it. I love my job, so there are no real regrets there.

Maybe you could also mention what active clinical experience you have accumulated as well as shadowing hours and nonmedical community service.

Ah, heck, in for a penny in for a pound!

---------------After deciding to go for med----------------
1yr of fulltime ED scribing, with some additional shifts in an outpatient orthopedic office
20hrs shadowing consulting docs, including OR time
200hrs volunteering at the children's hospital, working directly with the kids in 2 departments, one of which required me actually administering screening tests and explaining things to the parents one-on-one (and sometimes in spanish, unofficially! )
I have recently been accepted to a premedical program which involves a couple hundred hours of shadowing surgeons at various stages of training in an academic hospital setting, including rounds and OR, and a variety of specialties. They also do workshops and have an academic component (no credits offered at my institution, but worth it for the AWESOME experience!)
Part-time work at a biotech company, doing oddball jobs ranging from data gathering and software testing to advertisement and video editing.
--------------pre-premed----------
4yrs of a club sport, competitive at a national level
2yrs of leading and organizing said sport, which was entirely student-run, and had an associated campus group which was the largest club at my school (~10% of the student body)
6 or so yrs of tutoring
3yrs research (1yr each in 3 labs, no pubs excepting a senior thesis)
Student housing leader (responsible for organizing campus events and managing 25% of the school's RAs)
A variety of minor musical endeavors, though I cut these back in college.
Various hobbies - SCUBA, motorcycles, working on my car, etc.


As for nonclinical volunteering, it's fairly limited...I did odd-job things such as free concerts for nursing homes, winterizing local homes, etc, but nothing sustained and consistent.


Anyway, thank you for your questions - hope this makes things clearer.

Really, I know the 0.05 is negligible, but considering my shaky undergrad performance (<3.2 with spikes and dips, including several C+ grades) what I really want to demonstrate is that I've worked out my time management issues now that I have a goal and a focus. I always learned the material before, but when it came to assignments, I left myself just enough time to finish them, without room for any extenuating circumstances or interruptions. Life being life, sometimes $#!7 DID happen, and when it did so, I'd fall just short. What I really learned in my postbacc was how to study (which I'd never really done, other than cramming) and how to keep myself on track so that, when things came up, it didn't derail my academics. My schedule was pretty light in undergrad and yet I pulled all-nighters routinely. Now I'm slammed, but I've managed to pull far better grades without the all-nighters.
I just don't know that 8 courses is enough to demonstrate that I've turned things around, or whether it'll just look like "well, yeah, anyone can keep it together for that short period". But then, is 10 or 12 much better?

 

[Catalystik]

I have 26 postbacc credit hours, all 4.0, and all science courses. I had to take both Physics, but other than that they've been Bio courses - A&P, Neuro, Hematology, MedMicro, Cardiac Physio, etc.

Neither - Extension courses. There were no close unis and CCs didn't have upper-level sciences (I was a chem major who took every Microbio course offered at my school in UG)

BCPM gpa is the same as my overall, 3.2ish prior to postbacc and now 3.3 even. Without math it would be slightly higher, as I took only one course (I completed both calcs in HS) and got a 2.7 in it.

Sadly, I'm in Cali. However, I have significant ties to MA and VA, having lived in both for multiple years and having close family who live in both. I graduated HS in VA, though they're not one of the states which counts that automatically, more's the pity. I have no desire to remain on the west coast.

To be fair, I cut back to 48hrs for MCAT prep, and it seems to be going just fine according to AAMC FLs. I could have done a better job if I'd taken more time, sure, but if I swing a 38+ I'll be happy (40+ I'd be ecstatic!) Those seem to be in the cards, though it won't be over until I've got that score report, of course.
But in all honesty, my reasons are twofold: a) I am happier and more productive when I'm slightly overbusy rather than having too much free time. Right now I'm a bit past the sweet spot, but it's still better than being underloaded. b) I have never had a career goal or passion before, and so when it became clear to me that I really did want to pursue medicine, I decided that the most important thing to do was to get every clinical experience I could manage in order to see if my newfound conviction held up in the face of reality. So, while I had to get a biotech job to pay the bills, when a scribing opportunity came up, even requiring full-time hours and an hour commute each way for shifts, I jumped at it. I love my job, so there are no real regrets there.

Ah, heck, in for a penny in for a pound!

---------------After deciding to go for med----------------
1yr of fulltime ED scribing, with some additional shifts in an outpatient orthopedic office
20hrs shadowing consulting docs, including OR time
200hrs volunteering at the children's hospital, working directly with the kids in 2 departments, one of which required me actually administering screening tests and explaining things to the parents one-on-one (and sometimes in spanish, unofficially! )
I have recently been accepted to a premedical program which involves a couple hundred hours of shadowing surgeons at various stages of training in an academic hospital setting, including rounds and OR, and a variety of specialties. They also do workshops and have an academic component (no credits offered at my institution, but worth it for the AWESOME experience!)
Part-time work at a biotech company, doing oddball jobs ranging from data gathering and software testing to advertisement and video editing.
--------------pre-premed----------
4yrs of a club sport, competitive at a national level
2yrs of leading and organizing said sport, which was entirely student-run, and had an associated campus group which was the largest club at my school (~10% of the student body)
6 or so yrs of tutoring
3yrs research (1yr each in 3 labs, no pubs excepting a senior thesis)
Student housing leader (responsible for organizing campus events and managing 25% of the school's RAs)
A variety of minor musical endeavors, though I cut these back in college.
Various hobbies - SCUBA, motorcycles, working on my car, etc.


As for nonclinical volunteering, it's fairly limited...I did odd-job things such as free concerts for nursing homes, winterizing local homes, etc, but nothing sustained and consistent.


Anyway, thank you for your questions - hope this makes things clearer.

Really, I know the 0.05 is negligible, but considering my shaky undergrad performance (<3.2 with spikes and dips, including several C+ grades) what I really want to demonstrate is that I've worked out my time management issues now that I have a goal and a focus. I always learned the material before, but when it came to assignments, I left myself just enough time to finish them, without room for any extenuating circumstances or interruptions. Life being life, sometimes $#!7 DID happen, and when it did so, I'd fall just short. What I really learned in my postbacc was how to study (which I'd never really done, other than cramming) and how to keep myself on track so that, when things came up, it didn't derail my academics. My schedule was pretty light in undergrad and yet I pulled all-nighters routinely. Now I'm slammed, but I've managed to pull far better grades without the all-nighters.
I just don't know that 8 courses is enough to demonstrate that I've turned things around, or whether it'll just look like "well, yeah, anyone can keep it together for that short period". But then, is 10 or 12 much better?

Had I realized you were Californian, I'd have been more specific and said "How many semester hours of postbac coursework?" If you have 26 semester hours, you'd likely get by with one class each of the remaining semesters before you apply. If not, I'd want to see you get as close to 30 semester hour-equivalents as possible, unless you have already demonstrated a steep upward grade trend toward the end of college. Don't worry so much about your application GPAs as you do about what adcomms will find when microanalyzing your transcripts. Consistent excellent coursework over a period of time is more important in my book. If you do indeed get the high end MCAT score your practice tests predict, I think you should be in a good position for maximal consideration under the circumstances.

Personally, I'd be looking for Stats (considering your Calc grades) and Biochem on your transcript. Will they be there?

ECs are looking good. I don't see any office-based primary care shadowing, which I'd encourage (even if only 8 hours) compared to a ton of surgical observership hours in an applicant who is already time challenged. (Yes, I know it will be fun.)

Spanish translation experience will work in your favor so be sure to emphasize your skill level on the application (without exaggerating, of course).

If only you'd thought to establish state residency elsewhere 1.5 years ago. Ahh, well.

 

[mehc012]

Had I realized you were Californian, I'd have been more specific and said "How many semester hours of postbac coursework?" If you have 26 semester hours, you'd likely get by with one class each of the remaining semesters before you apply. If not, I'd want to see you get as close to 30 semester hour-equivalents as possible, unless you have already demonstrated a steep upward grade trend toward the end of college. Don't worry so much about your application GPAs as you do about what adcomms will find when microanalyzing your transcripts. Consistent excellent coursework over a period of time is more important in my book. If you do indeed get the high end MCAT score your practice tests predict, I think you should be in a good position for maximal consideration under the circumstances.

Personally, I'd be looking for Stats (considering your Calc grades) and Biochem on your transcript. Will they be there?

ECs are looking good. I don't see any office-based primary care shadowing, which I'd encourage (even if only 8 hours) compared to a ton of surgical observership hours in an applicant who is already time challenged. (Yes, I know it will be fun.)

Spanish translation experience will work in your favor so be sure to emphasize your skill level on the application (without exaggerating, of course).

If only you'd thought to establish state residency elsewhere 1.5 years ago. Ahh, well.

I've taken Biochem. Looking to take Stats but it's not offered where I am.


I tried to move elsewhere, but free rent is hard to pass up! I did think of it, and I seriously considered moving elsewhere, but I had no money saved up beforehand, and now it's difficult to quit my jobs. Side note unrelated to apps...I am not Californian. I know I have to claim it on my app because I happen to be stuck here right now, but as a diehard East coast kid, I refuse to be a Californian. My whole family is from the east, though, and I spent 22 years over there before getting stuck out here. It'd be nice to have some instate options, though.

There is pretty much zero chance of me being interested in primary care, which is why I haven't shadowed it. As far as I'm concerned, the ED is 85% primary care anyway, especially where I'm at. I really can't see what I would get out of seeing even more of it, since even the small glimpses which I get make me want to pull my teeth out. Maybe it's because I grew up super poor, so doctors were an extravagance and I've never had a PCP. I can see the merit for older people or those with a lot of chronic issues, but I just don't see myself doing it. I've talked to a lot of docs in the ED and shadowed a few of them for short duration, and I really, really see myself doing something with a procedural component, or more acute management. I'm doing this surgical program because it is specifically the area which I have found the most fascinating - I smile just thinking about it! I'm doing this program because it reminds me of why it's worth working so hard, because that lies at the end.

My calc grades were both AP 5s. The math course was a proofs-based one for math majors which I was actually pulling a solid A in before $#!7 hit the fan during finals and I just...I mean, I physically turned in the final, but that's about it. That was more my issue...I always did reasonably well, but I had a few end-of-semester catastrophes which I just wasn't organized enough to weather, so I have a couple of bad semesters (2 or more C+). Sadly, it's rather hard to make that clear without turning things into some sort of sob story excuse-fest, which I refuse to do.

I'm assuming mine were semester hours...to be honest, my undergrad did not use credit hours (they did 1 class, 1 credit) so I'm relatively new to the whole deal. They're not quarters, if that is the concern.

At any rate, it sounds as if a few more courses and remaining slow and steady would be the way to go. Not what I wanted to hear, but all the more useful for that fact! Thank you so much for your advice and perspective!

 

[Goro]

You're looking at this the wrong way. Don't consider the cGPA...that's not going to rise unless you do it via AACOMAS' grade replacement policy. Since that path is not open to you, you have to look at your PB GPA. Aceing it will show MD school Adcoms that the you of now is not the you of then. Well, that, and a great MCAT (>33).

There are schools that value reinvention. I do not believe that the CA schools are among them, but the learned @gyngyn can better comment on that.

I've seen successful reinventers get into, or at least IIs at, BU, Tufts, Drexel, Vandy, Duke, U Miami, Wayne State, SUNY-Upstate, Albany, NYMC, Case, and Rosy Franklin.

Hey SDN,
Looking for some advice here on my DIY postbacc.
I graduated 2yrs ago with no intention of going to medical school - the thought hadn't even crossed my mind. 6mo later I found myself, finally, certain of what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. Unfortunately, not having had that conviction in undergrad, my GPA was fine, but not med-school-fine.

OK, it was under a 3.2.

Over the past 1.5yrs, I have managed to take 8 or so science courses (4.0 gpa postbacc), bumping my GPA up to a measly 3.3 even. I had hoped to be able to bring it up to a 3.4 or a 3.5, but unfortunately I took an average of 17 credits/semester while in undergrad, so there is a lot to overcome and not much time to do it - I plan to apply next June.
There are still 2 semesters to go before that time...however, I have also been working hard on addressing other areas of my application which were deficient. In the past year, I have consistently pulled off 2 courses while working 2 other jobs and volunteering, but now I have managed to land an awesome internship opportunity, and I really don't think I can do more than 1 course this semester. I would also like to cut back during the months leading up to the actual application submission, so that I can focus on the AMCAS itself.

I guess my point is, given how many other things I have going on, and the fact that I will probably not hit a 3.4 even if I push myself to the brink, is it time to call it quits on the GPA repair? Is enough enough at a 3.3, or is that low enough that every little bit counts? Do I have to wait a whole extra year and pull it up to a 3.4?

I can do it...I can continue taking multiple courses while working 60hr weeks and commuting hours daily. But I am starting to get tired. My inclination is to let my postbacc, as short as it was, speak for itself - I can pull a 4.0 in tough classes while also working my butt off. I have fixed my time management issues from college. I know my material (my MCAT should demonstrate this; I tend to do well on standardized tests and the MCAT is looking to be the same deal). Maybe I didn't get my GPA where I wanted to, but I feel as if I showed what I needed to. My question is, will the adcoms be able to see this, or am I still in the land of auto-reject?

(No, I do not plan to apply DO this cycle. Maybe next year)
(Yes, I am taking the MCAT this year; I don't want to deal with the new one).

 

[cidem2065]

I'm basically in the same boat but with a slightly lower GPA on both ends. It's a little nerve-wracking to know what you're capable of but wonder if a committee will look close enough to recognize that.

 

[mehc012]

You're looking at this the wrong way. Don't consider the cGPA...that's not going to rise unless you do it via AACOMAS' grade replacement policy. Since that path is not open to you, you have to look at your PB GPA. Aceing it will show MD school Adcoms that the you of now is not the you of then. Well, that, and a great MCAT (>33).

There are schools that value reinvention. I do not believe that the CA schools are among them, but the learned @gyngyn can better comment on that.

I've seen successful reinventers get into, or at least IIs at, BU, Tufts, Drexel, Vandy, Duke, U Miami, Wayne State, SUNY-Upstate, Albany, NYMC, Case, and Rosy Franklin.

My postbacc GPA is a 4.0...I'm just not sure that 8 science courses is enough to count as a reinvention. Then again, I'm not going to end up with more than 11 by app time anyway, so the real question is "does 11 courses aced during a heavy schedule show more than 8 courses aced during heavy schedule?"

The MCAT is looking as if it will be 38+ range.
I would absolutely go to a CA school if I got in, but ideally I would escape this coast and go back East! I will probably apply to a few because they are close to me and my family, and they are good schools, but without IS preference I will probably not be in the stats range for them even with a 40+, so applying to more than 1 or 2 would sort of be throwing money at the wind.

Thank you for that list...I will absolutely look into those!

 

[Goro]

Our own SMP has ~7-8 science courses over the course of one year. So the answer to your question is yes. USC, UCI and Loma Linda will probably you best chances at any CA MD school. I don't know how they view reinventers, though.

My postbacc GPA is a 4.0...I'm just not sure that 8 science courses is enough to count as a reinvention. Then again, I'm not going to end up with more than 11 by app time anyway, so the real question is "does 11 courses aced during a heavy schedule show more than 8 courses aced during heavy schedule?"

The MCAT is looking as if it will be 38+ range.
I would absolutely go to a CA school if I got in, but ideally I would escape this coast and go back East! I will probably apply to a few because they are close to me and my family, and they are good schools, but without IS preference I will probably not be in the stats range for them even with a 40+, so applying to more than 1 or 2 would sort of be throwing money at the wind.

Thank you for that list...I will absolutely look into those!

 

[ems2doc]

Apply broadly across MD and DO. If that doesn't work, take some more classes. Repeat. If this is truly meaningful to you, keep pushing. Just keep inching that GPA up until some place accepts you, including DO schools.

 

[cidem2065]

Our own SMP has ~7-8 science courses over the course of one year. So the answer to your question is yes. USC, UCI and Loma Linda will probably you best chances at any CA MD school. I don't know how they view reinventers, though.

Would a reinventer who finished a career changer program just shy of a 3.0 cGPA (via a 3.75 post bacc) still be screened out like a traditional <3.0?

 

[ridethecliche]

At some schools yes, at some schools no. You'd probably not make it at schools that use pre-screening algorithms unless you compensate with a high MCAT, in which case your app probably gets flagged before a secondary is sent out.

 

[Goro]

This will depend upon the school. Vandy accepted someone with a 2.9 GPA, so I suspect that was a successful non-trad..

I haven't looked but ID'ing schools that have accepted ORM people with cGPAs of <3.1 would be those schools that favor reinventors.

Would a reinventer who finished a career changer program just shy of a 3.0 cGPA (via a 3.75 post bacc) still be screened out like a traditional <3.0?

 

[type12]

VTC and NYMC are extremely receptive to people like you. You sound exhausted, and you have shown great improvement recently. Lots of allopathic medical schools will look at this positively, especially if this is your first time applying.

Ace the MCAT, like crazy. You're golden.

 

[cidem2065]

This will depend upon the school. Vandy accepted someone with a 2.9 GPA, so I suspect that was a successful non-trad..

I haven't looked but ID'ing schools that have accepted ORM people with cGPAs of <3.1 would be those schools that favor reinventors.

I would have to assume then that certain schools are completely closed to reinventers then. I don't know the bigger picture of admissions and I can't really afford to be arrogant but I would like to believe those places are missing out. I have applications complete for several of those east coast-ish schools you mentioned (not Vandy...yet) as well as a bunch of big reaches. As for DO, AACOMAS fortunately puts me a little above that 3.0 threshold.

 

[Catalystik]

@cidem2065 Please don't derail the OP's thread further. You are welcome to start your own thread to get the best feedback on your personal concerns.

 

[mehc012]

Our own SMP has ~7-8 science courses over the course of one year. So the answer to your question is yes. USC, UCI and Loma Linda will probably you best chances at any CA MD school. I don't know how they view reinventers, though.

Hahaha, Loma Linda would laugh me right out the door...I am so areligious it is not even funny! The others will definitely be on my list, however!

When you say "the answer to your question is yes", to which iteration are you referring? I'm afraid that I've been super spastic in this thread and have at this point rephrased myself in a few contradicting ways.

Thank you to everyone for responding and putting up with my questions! I know it seems little, but I have a very short period of time in which to make this decision and seeing a multitude of opinions is very helpful!

 

[mehc012]

VTC and NYMC are extremely receptive to people like you. You sound exhausted, and you have shown great improvement recently. Lots of allopathic medical schools will look at this positively, especially if this is your first time applying.

Ace the MCAT, like crazy. You're golden.

Haha, thanks...and I plan to ace this damn test! Shooting for that 40+!

 

[Goro]

It will.

My postbacc GPA is a 4.0...I'm just not sure that 8 science courses is enough to count as a reinvention.

 

[mehc012]

It will.

My postbacc GPA is a 4.0...I'm just not sure that 8 science courses is enough to count as a reinvention.

Thanks for the clarification...and for your advice in general!

 

[orangeman25]

This will depend upon the school. Vandy accepted someone with a 2.9 GPA, so I suspect that was a successful non-trad..

I haven't looked but ID'ing schools that have accepted ORM people with cGPAs of <3.1 would be those schools that favor reinventors.

Yep. This was a friend of my friend. 2.9 GPA with 4.0 post bac and >35 MCAT.