pregnancy during post doc at VA?

[anonyrat]

Hello, I plan on trying to get pregnant during my 2-year neuropsy postdoc at a VA. I guess there is no maternity leave? How will time off work? I'm in my 30s so must strike while the iron is hot but I'm afraid to ask my supervisors-to-be at this point before I've even really met them.. Advice is very welcome

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[AcronymAllergy]

Odds are you'll accumulate sick and annual leave at rates similar to most other non-physician employees (i.e., 4 hours per pay period, I believe). Thus, depending on when during your postdoc you become pregnant and how long you plan to take off, you could potentially swing it if you save up your time.

If you go beyond those accumulated hours, though, you'll probably need to push back your completion date accordingly, particularly if you want to be board-eligible when you finish. That's just my guess, anyway.

 

[anonyrat]

bummer- no way I'll be able to accumulate sufficient time for compensation as we are planning on going for it right away- we've waited a loooong time and biologically really shouldn't wait much longer. Oh well.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

"Right away" as in now, or as in as soon as you start post-doc? If the latter, you still may be able to save up a few weeks' worth of combined sick and annual leave.

You could also check in with your training director, which you'd likely need to do at some point anyway just to get the logistics worked out.

 

[anonyrat]

good point- we'll wait until I actually start working there. A few weeks is certainly better than nothing!

Yeah, I will check in with them when the time feels right- don't want to jump the gun.

(strike while the iron is not; jump the gun- I've been administering too many verbal abstraction tasks lately )

 

[LM02]

Here's the rub - without 12 months of employment (1250 hours) immediately prior to your leave, you won't be eligible for FMLA. This is true across the board, and not just specific to the VA or federal employment. So all you will be able to take is whatever leave time you have accrued, and anything other than that won't be protected.

With 12 months under your belt, you would at least be eligible for your 12 weeks of time off - they will likely not pay you for that, but you can use your accrued leave to get paid for at least part of it and choose to take the rest unpaid.

I was not at the VA... but when I had my first child, I was able to use sick days to pay for 6 weeks of my maternity leave, and then did another 4 weeks unpaid. But because of finances, that was the most we felt comfortable doing unpaid. So I basically shaved off 2 weeks, which wasn't ideal but it wasn't horrible, either.

Anyway, pregnancy is (give or take) 40 weeks. So if you held off for just a couple of months before getting pregnant, you are likely to have your 1250 hours under your belt before delivering the baby. It may be worth it, as you will have more sick time accrued (to pay for your time off) and you will be eligible for FMLA.

There may be some VA-specific issues I'm unaware of, but that's the generic version of maternity leave (I've had two at two different institutions, and the experiences were pretty much the same at both).

ETA: Also, if you are doing your internship at a different VA, it might be that those hours would count toward your "12 months" as you are remaining within the VA system? But that might be a stretch.

 

[IT514]

Here's the rub - without 12 months of employment (1250 hours) immediately prior to your leave, you won't be eligible for FMLA. This is true across the board, and not just specific to the VA or federal employment. So all you will be able to take is whatever leave time you have accrued, and anything other than that won't be protected.

With 12 months under your belt, you would at least be eligible for your 12 weeks of time off - they will likely not pay you for that, but you can use your accrued leave to get paid for at least part of it and choose to take the rest unpaid.

I was not at the VA... but when I had my first child, I was able to use sick days to pay for 6 weeks of my maternity leave, and then did another 4 weeks unpaid. But because of finances, that was the most we felt comfortable doing unpaid. So I basically shaved off 2 weeks, which wasn't ideal but it wasn't horrible, either.

Anyway, pregnancy is (give or take) 40 weeks. So if you held off for just a couple of months before getting pregnant, you are likely to have your 1250 hours under your belt before delivering the baby. It may be worth it, as you will have more sick time accrued (to pay for your time off) and you will be eligible for FMLA.

There may be some VA-specific issues I'm unaware of, but that's the generic version of maternity leave (I've had two at two different institutions, and the experiences were pretty much the same at both).

ETA: Also, if you are doing your internship at a different VA, it might be that those hours would count toward your "12 months" as you are remaining within the VA system? But that might be a stretch.

Not sure that the above is true at all if FMLA is due to having a child. I took a few weeks of FLMA during my third month of VA internship - though I could have taken up to three months (unpaid, or combined it with my accrued annual leave/sick leave). My understanding is that FMLA due to childbirth requres zero accrued time.

 

[LM02]

Not sure that the above is true at all if FMLA is due to having a child. I took a few weeks of FLMA during my third month of VA internship - though I could have taken up to three months (unpaid, or combined it with my accrued annual leave/sick leave). My understanding is that FMLA due to childbirth requres zero accrued time.

Hmm... I have two friends who were denied FMLA for maternity leave because of the 12 month requirement. I don't see anything about childbirth being an exception to the accrued time requirement, but you can find more here:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs28.htm

 

[Pragma]

I know people that had babies during neuro postdocs in both VA and non VA settings. All of them just took unpaid time and added time to the end of their postdocs to make up for it. I think sites are usually willing to negotiate this with you, whether it is formally FMLA or not.

I don't think it is reasonable to expect any sort of paid maternity leave, unless you have accrued vacation time.

 

[IT514]

Was that in the VA? Perhaps there is some kind of exception in Federal work. Or, it might be a new exception this year. From my experience anyway, I was approved on the spot for paternity leave in my second month of internship.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I know people that had babies during neuro postdocs in both VA and non VA settings. All of them just took unpaid time and added time to the end of their postdocs to make up for it. I think sites are usually willing to negotiate this with you, whether it is formally FMLA or not.

I don't think it is reasonable to expect any sort of paid maternity leave, unless you have accrued vacation time.

I would agree, at least based on what I've seen/heard. Post-docs tend to: 1) have more leeway than do internships, particularly regarding start and end dates, 2) be understanding that you're around for two years (for neuro spots) rather than one, and 3) be more used to the idea that by the time people get to fellowship, if they haven't already started a family, they're very much at the point in their lives where they're ready to give it a go.

 

[PHD12]

good point- we'll wait until I actually start working there. A few weeks is certainly better than nothing!

Yeah, I will check in with them when the time feels right- don't want to jump the gun.

(strike while the iron is not; jump the gun- I've been administering too many verbal abstraction tasks lately )

You might be jumping the gun by talking to supervisors too soon. From what i've read, it takes on "average" 1 to 2 years to conceive once you are over 35, but I don't know the details of these research studies and which age groups they lump together. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[neuronic]

Not sure if anyone else has felt this way, but I feel that more people are family-oriented in the VA system versus academia. At least in the current setting I am at, many have children and are very supportive of this. This may not be typical, but I have been pleasantly surprised.

 

[deleted176373]

bummer- no way I'll be able to accumulate sufficient time for compensation as we are planning on going for it right away- we've waited a loooong time and biologically really shouldn't wait much longer. Oh well.

You might need to delay a few months. Biologically, a few months is NOT a big deal, if you want to feel really good about that few months of shift, what you can do is get yourself into the best shape of your life before you get pregnant. Having a healthy foundation will make for a much better experience while you are pregnant and help you bounce back afterwards.

Now, if you're already in phenomenal shape, disregard, but otherwise... that few month shift can be used in a really productive manner to prepare your body for one of its biggest challenges. Federal law is very clear about family leave after pregnancy, it may be unpaid leave, but federal law may make it possible to have the time off (I missed LM02's post, but LM02 got this spot on).

M

And no, I've never been pregnant, I just have anecdotal qualitative evidence from women who have been there, done that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_and_Medical_Leave_Act_of_1993

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I hate to be doom and gloom here, but you can't always count on a smooth pregnancy. My BFF vomited every day, multiple times per day, until her due date. Such things could impact your ability to work. I myself spent the last 5 weeks of my pregnancy in the hospital. I say this by way of saying, I would make sure you have access to fmla before attempting to get pregnant.

I would be interested in the VA culture around pregnancy and family (I have no experience with the VA). I have a close friend who did her post doc at the VA and then was hired there FT. After her baby was born, they allowed her to work PT, so I thought that was pretty good. I would see if maybe you could ask someone off the record about more subtle discrimination against women who go on maternity leave. This field isn't as progressive as we all would hope.

I hear ya on the biological clock issue though. I definitely had my son at a financially inconvenient time because I was getting "old." Good luck to you!

Dr. E

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I know you mean well, but women don't want lectures on pregnancy health from men who are not obstetricians. It feels very condescending, particularly to educated women who have likely heavily researched what they need to do to prepare for and maintain healthy pregnancies.

You might need to delay a few months. Biologically, a few months is NOT a big deal, if you want to feel really good about that few months of shift, what you can do is get yourself into the best shape of your life before you get pregnant. Having a healthy foundation will make for a much better experience while you are pregnant and help you bounce back afterwards.

Now, if you're already in phenomenal shape, disregard, but otherwise... that few month shift can be used in a really productive manner to prepare your body for one of its biggest challenges. Federal law is very clear about family leave after pregnancy, it may be unpaid leave, but federal law may make it possible to have the time off (I missed LM02's post, but LM02 got this spot on).

M

And no, I've never been pregnant, I just have anecdotal qualitative evidence from women who have been there, done that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_and_Medical_Leave_Act_of_1993

 

[anonyrat]

thanks, Dr. E

Yeah we are in a situation that I don't want to get into on here, but there are some circumstances going on where we can't really wait very long at all. But rest assured we certainly aren't going to bring it up to any supervisors until it is the right time.

One supervisor did spontaneously talk about how it was a family-friendly place, and how he has flexible hours as a result. So that is at least a little promising. This is in stark contrast to some other places that said, "you cannot have a family while you are here. it will not work." Yikes.

And thanks everyone else. I have a feeling it's going to be OK one way or another. Of course knowing that especially for a woman in this field there is no "right" time to do this helps normalize things!

 

[Pragma]

thanks, Dr. E

Yeah we are in a situation that I don't want to get into on here, but there are some circumstances going on where we can't really wait very long at all. But rest assured we certainly aren't going to bring it up to any supervisors until it is the right time.

One supervisor did spontaneously talk about how it was a family-friendly place, and how he has flexible hours as a result. So that is at least a little promising. This is in stark contrast to some other places that said, "you cannot have a family while you are here. it will not work." Yikes.

And thanks everyone else. I have a feeling it's going to be OK one way or another. Of course knowing that especially for a woman in this field there is no "right" time to do this helps normalize things!

I had a friend that showed up to their postdoc pregnant. They weren't showing yet, but they had to break the news within the first month. It worked out for her - and her boss was kind of a nut, too - I think to some extent that places just have to work with your circumstances, and I think most people are perfectly willing to if you offer to be flexible about how you make up any missed time.

At my postdoc, my supervisor said every female postdoc they had ever had had a child while on the postdoc. I think it is a very common time to have children.

 

[54321]

Anonyrat, Please let us know what you end up finding out. I also wonder if anyone has ever taken time completely off work for several years or worked part-time while kids are little then transitioned back to full-time? It seems like other careers are conducive to this but I haven't really heard about it among any psychologists.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Anonyrat, Please let us know what you end up finding out. I also wonder if anyone has ever taken time completely off work for several years or worked part-time while kids are little then transitioned back to full-time? It seems like other careers are conducive to this but I haven't really heard about it among any psychologists.

I've certainly heard of psychologists doing this, although many of them felt as though they needed to ease their way back in initially rather than jump in full-time. Also, depending on how many years they took off, many also at least toyed with the idea of attaining some CE first to get caught back up in terms of current trends in their particular areas of practice (particularly if they hadn't been keeping up while away).

 

[anonyrat]

update! I'm about to enter my 2nd trimester pregnant at the VA during the first year of my neuropsych post doc; everything's gone great so far. I was lucky not to get severe morning sickness. I spoke with my supervisors, they are being totally sweet about it. My husband and I "arranged things" so that my due date would be in late September, after I will have been here for a full year just in case. I haven't spoken to the director of the post doc yet (waiting on a final doctor's visit), but will probably at the end of this week or early next week. I am still not 100% clear on whether or not I will receive FMLA, but I will update everyone and let you know when I find out. So far it's been working out amazingly well, knock wood!

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Congrats!