premed and HIV?

[NorCalGirl]

thank you for writing this. i have been too frusterated to respond for the last few pages.

I agree. Thank you. I was really starting to feel disappointed and worried about the kinds of people I'd be going to med school with.

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[dopaminophile]

Just so I'm clear, you all aren't trying to say that having AIDS is a barrell of laughs are you? The people with whom I did educational speaking on HIV and living with AIDS wanted most to dispell from the community's mind that HIV is no problem to live with nowadays. While there are exceptions in symptom-free people, most HIV positive individuals have to take a full drug regimen with terrible side effects to fight secondary infections. Often the side effects like peripheral neuropathy and nausea force people to give up the therepy. This isn't to mention the financial problems of having to pay $20000/year or more for drugs, which doesn't include the new entry inhibitors that cost 20k/year by themselves. The social stigmas have been brought up here plenty. I don't want to give the impression that being HIV positive precludes someone from leading a happy, meaningful life, but I think that it's just as dangerous to imply that it's no big deal to become infected. Maybe I was reading the last few posts wrong.

 

[GuyLaroche]

** Post deleted because it was needlessly mean and not in the true spirit of my person **

 

[dopaminophile]

**post deleted to keep myself above the fray and the thread reasonably on topic**

 

[myodana]

Just so I'm clear, you all aren't trying to say that having AIDS is a barrell of laughs are you?

i don't think anyone is trying to say that.

i do think that on top of all of the hardships someone with AIDS is necessarily going to endure, the LAST thing they need is for people to call them "attempted murderers" because they are attempting to carry on a long term relationship (which may or may not be sexual, who are we to know...) with someone who they care about. that's all. some people should try to be a little more sensitive.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

i don't think anyone is trying to say that.

i do think that on top of all of the hardships someone with AIDS is necessarily going to endure, the LAST thing they need is for people to call them "attempted murderers" because they are attempting to carry on a long term relationship (which may or may not be sexual, who are we to know...) with someone who they care about. that's all. some people should try to be a little more sensitive.

right people need to be more sensitive. No one knows how this poor guy contracted AIDS so let's not prejudge hm. As for the girl, let's alos not prejudge her. It's none of our business and we should all hope and pray she goes into this intelligently and use proper precautions to protect herself.

For all i know this OP could be a troll post but i'll give her the benefit of the doubt and besides these "trollish" posts always give the most food for thought and interesting discussions, so keep it up.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I didn't realize that I had made a solicitation or requested a sexual favor! You of all people should be cautious about equating the sacred institution of marriage with sexual favors and solicitation. I realize you think that gay marriage is an entirely different beast but still....

sorry i was playing with ya; it was a bad joke

 

[beponychick]

Hi guys,

Wow, what have I started? No this is not a "troll" post. Why would it be? Is the idea of someone who is HIV- dating someone who is HIV+ such a far fetched idea? You would be surprised how many people are in a similar situation, maybe not with HIV, but with other conditions. In any case, people are very quick to judge, and that is understandble. I had the same initial response when she told me but I tried to not be judgemental. She is a smart girl and I trust her to make the best decisions for herself. She has been thinking about what her future will be like and has been doing a lot of research into it. She told me that as long as she doesnt get infected, there are some medical procedures that can "purify" the sperm so as to avoid passing it down to her children from him. Does anyone know anything about this?

But I agree with many people that medical profession is conservative, and because she will not know who will be reading her PS, it is better not to include that information.

 

[LVDoc]

Yes, it is a far-fetched idea for an HIV- person to be voluntarily engaging in sexual activity, and putting themselves at risk to infection, with an HIV+ person; I did not use the term "dating" here. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised at the number of people in a similar situation - unless you can provide conclusive evidence of the actual number, it remains that these are isolated situations, and if anything, exist in no more than numbers of the lower thousands.

You mention people in similar situations; unless you're talking about Hepatitis C or another blood-borne pathogen, it is quite different.

If she remains to date this man, that is her own personal choice. I don't understand what kind of a future physician would do this though, and I still believe that her own doctor was right for implying that what she was doing was very irrational behavior; I would never want to have a doctor treat me with this kind of logic, let alone the possibility of having him/her be infected (knowing it or not).

If you search PubMed, you will see that courts have ordered certain physicians to report their HIV+ status to patients; some have also been fired for not complying or posing a serious risk to others. Yes, believe it or not, this does happen. Another interesting thing you should note is that the United States prohibits entry of HIV+ people, unless there are extenuating circumstances at hand. What is the reason for this? I am sure you know - to stop the risk or potential spread. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the ban currently in place, but I am simply stating that these kinds of things do exist.

HIV+ is thought to be carried in the semen, not the actual sperm; it is possible to "wash" HIV from the semen, thereby isolating the sperm, however no conclusive trials have been in place to test the efficacy or the risk of infection from this. After "washing" HIV away from the semen, in-vitro fertilization or intra-uterine insemination can be used. If she carries out with her plans, this could be one method she could possibility resort to. She would have better success doing this in the UK or Italy, because they have been exploring these options for a lot longer.

Medicine is conservative; if she mentions her relationship in the context of her personal statement, I think she would be asking for an immediate rejection for lack of common sense and for ethical reasons that extend beyond the boundaries of her writing. If she were to write about this in a personal statement, she should not disclose anything about her relationship.

 

[VPDcurt]

"Opening up a can of worms"? Are we still living in the f.ucking 80's? Grow up people -- you are going to be physicians. Thousands die everyday from HIV/AIDS. Don't let the vestiges of AIDS-related discrimination/stigmatism carry on with this generation of physicians. Open up and speak out on AIDS. Write about it in your personal statement. Be an advocate for the HIV+ children in Botswana suffering on a daily basis without access to anti-retrovirals. Be a voice for the thousands of HIV+ African Americans in our own country who have been marginalized by their families, communities, and churches due simply to their HIV status.


ACT UP! Fight AIDS!

*end PSA*

Ignorance is bliss. A PS is not going to open eyes and ears to the children in Botswana suffering with HIV/AIDS. Your ideologies are merely painting a picture of a fantasy world.

On a more relevant note...I don't think this should be in a PS. There is really no compelling reason to include it unless she feels that it is the only thing she would like to talk about in her PS. Otherwise, I would write about something else. I would not look positively upon a PS written about this topic as I see no reason to discuss the matter in such a way. If the point of writing the essay is to show that being HIV positive really isn't that big of a deal, then why include it in a PS in the first place?

 

[VPDcurt]

Medicine is conservative; if she mentions her relationship in the context of her personal statement, I think she would be asking for an immediate rejection for lack of common sense and for ethical reasons that extend beyond the boundaries of her writing. If she were to write about this in a personal statement, she should not disclose anything about her relationship.

Exactly. The liberals support the decision to include this information in the PS because it goes along with their other beliefs in that it is irrational and lacks common sense.

 

[GuyLaroche]

VPDCurt, this thread is for fostering intelligent discourse. As such, I am shocked to find you posting in it.

 

[VPDcurt]

VPDCurt, this thread is for fostering intelligent discourse. As such, I am shocked to find you posting in it.

Your sense of humor is really played out.

 

[~~premed82~~]

Hello Everyone,

I'd first and foremost like to thank the original poster for this thread, secondly, I agree 100% with the statements below. However, it is completely her choice to date this man and if he agrees to her including him of her personal statement, fine. The problem is that this action has it's Pro's & Con's , by that I mean this could either have a positive or negative reaction (on her getting into a reputable medical school), let's face it her trying to enter medical school and becoming a Doctor with this type of situation sets people back a bit. True, any and all things wrote in the personal statement are things that will/can be brought up during the Interview process.

More over, I think if this woman has any interest in the health care profession she'll re-think her decision. I'm not saying she has to stop dating him, however, like the person mentioned below one has to report these sort of things, and it's not a matter of "living in the 80's", it's a matter of caution. One pursuing a career in medicine I would (I'd hope) think people are more careful with their health. She does run the risk of contracting this from this individual. Again, the choice is her's, so in doing so she must also take into acount that she may be looked over with regards to medical school due to her personal choice.

Just my 0.02cents

Yes, it is a far-fetched idea for an HIV- person to be voluntarily engaging in sexual activity, and putting themselves at risk to infection, with an HIV+ person; I did not use the term "dating" here. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised at the number of people in a similar situation - unless you can provide conclusive evidence of the actual number, it remains that these are isolated situations, and if anything, exist in no more than numbers of the lower thousands.

You mention people in similar situations; unless you're talking about Hepatitis C or another blood-borne pathogen, it is quite different.

If she remains to date this man, that is her own personal choice. I don't understand what kind of a future physician would do this though, and I still believe that her own doctor was right for implying that what she was doing was very irrational behavior; I would never want to have a doctor treat me with this kind of logic, let alone the possibility of having him/her be infected (knowing it or not).

If you search PubMed, you will see that courts have ordered certain physicians to report their HIV+ status to patients; some have also been fired for not complying or posing a serious risk to others. Yes, believe it or not, this does happen. Another interesting thing you should note is that the United States prohibits entry of HIV+ people, unless there are extenuating circumstances at hand. What is the reason for this? I am sure you know - to stop the risk or potential spread. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the ban currently in place, but I am simply stating that these kinds of things do exist.

HIV+ is thought to be carried in the semen, not the actual sperm; it is possible to "wash" HIV from the semen, thereby isolating the sperm, however no conclusive trials have been in place to test the efficacy or the risk of infection from this. After "washing" HIV away from the semen, in-vitro fertilization or intra-uterine insemination can be used. If she carries out with her plans, this could be one method she could possibility resort to. She would have better success doing this in the UK or Italy, because they have been exploring these options for a lot longer.

Medicine is conservative; if she mentions her relationship in the context of her personal statement, I think she would be asking for an immediate rejection for lack of common sense and for ethical reasons that extend beyond the boundaries of her writing. If she were to write about this in a personal statement, she should not disclose anything about her relationship.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

VPDCurt, this thread is for fostering intelligent discourse. As such, I am shocked to find you posting in it.

don't you two generally post in the same threads representing opposing points of view?

 

[GuyLaroche]

don't you two generally post in the same threads representing opposing points of view?

He never really has a laudable viewpoint. He just attacks and attacks. He's like the democratic party post 2000.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

He never really has a laudable viewpoint. He just attacks and attacks. He's like the democratic party post 2000.

actually he has a very respectable viewpoint; it just often differs from yours.

 

[PookieGirl]

right people need to be more sensitive. No one knows how this poor guy contracted AIDS so let's not prejudge hm. As for the girl, let's alos not prejudge her. It's none of our business and we should all hope and pray she goes into this intelligently and use proper precautions to protect herself.

For all i know this OP could be a troll post but i'll give her the benefit of the doubt and besides these "trollish" posts always give the most food for thought and interesting discussions, so keep it up.

Your statement implies that if we knew how this man got HIV, we then could judge him. It really doesn't matter how he got HIV. Would you as a physician treat him differently if he got it from receptive anal intercourse? or from group sex while high on methamphetamines? or from an inmate stabbing him with a contaminated needle in jail? or from a former girlfriend? or from working with HIV+ blood in a lab? You're job as a physician is not to judge, but to treat the person for their illness. And such judging is one reason (of many) that this epidemic has killed and infected as many people as it has-- because people judge and lay blame on those infected, which no surprise, prevents further people from seeking help for this disease.

 

[NPursuit]

There have been some on here who have claimed that AIDS is not spread easily. And while that may be the case, it should not be a point of security.

Just the other day I spoke with an old roommate of mine, who is gay. It turns out his ex-boyfriend is HIV+. While he was seeing my ex-roommie, the guy cheated with another guy who was HIV+. My roommate found out about the cheating, broke up with the guy, but had unprotected sex with him before finding out about the cheating.

Now, almost a year later, the ex-boyfriend has found out he is HIV+. My roommate dodged the bullet (at least with this first test), but now seven other guys are HIV+ and there are apparently dozens of other guys who need to be tested, but the involved parties don't know who they are.

So while my roommate got lucky, at least 7 other guys didn't.

This AIDS thing is for real, and dangerous behavior puts all at risk. Don't think taking precautions is going to save you. One of these seven claims a condom was used in his sexual contact.

Protection is just a precaution; not a solution. Sad, potent stuff.

 

[LVDoc]

Thanks NPursuit, for sharing that with us.

I am glad your friend was lucky enough to dodge the bullet; unfortunately, it sometimes takes a first hand account in order to know what is going on out there. God forbid anyone contracts this deadly virus, and I sure do hope that your roommate will be more cautious about his health. It is sad that STD-infected people cheat, lie, and betray their partners, with something so dangerous as this - this goes beyond the means of mental agony, it can become physical, and life-costing.

I still don't understand some of the posters on here that are reluctant to acknowledge the capabilities of this virus though. Just because a few of you might know some people that have lived with HIV+ for 5-20+ years does not make you an authority figure on the transmission risks, the body's ability or inability to combat the infection, and the realization of its full impact. Five, twenty, or even 1000 people that have been living HIV+ for some few years is hardly anything in comparison to the tens of millions that die each year.

For all of the other posters that keep writing mindless nonsense about how you wouldn't want to go to a school that discriminates HIV+ people as sub-human or who think negatively of HIV+ people, I urge you to gain some reading comprehension skills (no one has mentioned these preposterous things except your own self-concocted ideas) and some tolerance - whether you like it or not, at least one other person in this world will have a different opinion than you. Again, for some of you that keep writing as to how you are so frustrated, if you care to post something meaningul and valid, do some research - as I have pointed out to you through statistics, research, studies, and the sorts, transmission is real, and the consequences are real as well.

For the OP, I would like to know what this girl's parents thought when she told them. If she didn't tell them yet, that only serves to reinforce my point. And if she did tell them, I can damn well bet you that they will not be so inclined to approve of her demeanor. Maybe they wouldn't realize the implications of her daughter entering the medical field, but I am quite sure they want to protect their daughter, her emotional and physical health, and so forth.

C'mon people...don't tell me that if this situation ever happened to someone and they told the rest of the world that they were going to marry an HIV+ man, virtually everyone would think she was crazy. Sometime's people don't know what's best for them.

Frankly, at this point, I could care less whether I anger some of you or not, but I am going to state it anyway - I hope that the OP's friend does not have the chance to enter the medical profession until she has her own mental issues resolved.

Love comes and goes, HIV doesn't.

 

[PookieGirl]

There have been some on here who have claimed that AIDS is not spread easily. And while that may be the case, it should not be a point of security.

Just the other day I spoke with an old roommate of mine, who is gay. It turns out his ex-boyfriend is HIV+. While he was seeing my ex-roommie, the guy cheated with another guy who was HIV+. My roommate found out about the cheating, broke up with the guy, but had unprotected sex with him before finding out about the cheating.

Now, almost a year later, the ex-boyfriend has found out he is HIV+. My roommate dodged the bullet (at least with this first test), but now seven other guys are HIV+ and there are apparently dozens of other guys who need to be tested, but the involved parties don't know who they are.

So while my roommate got lucky, at least 7 other guys didn't.

This AIDS thing is for real, and dangerous behavior puts all at risk. Don't think taking precautions is going to save you. One of these seven claims a condom was used in his sexual contact.

Protection is just a precaution; not a solution. Sad, potent stuff.

Anyone can get HIV true but the risk is MUCH higher with anal intercourse, whether you're gay or straight, because the epithelial layer is only 1 cell thick in the rectum, versus several layers thick in the vagina. Just so we're clear on this.

 

[microbe hunter]

If I was interviewing her i would say, who gave you permission to write about his condition? More than an issue of a HIV neg person dating an HIV
+ person, it calls into question her sense of respect and dignity for the for those with HIV and their right to privacy thus her ethical standards.

Agreed. I would be afraid for the profession...

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Agreed. I would be afraid for the profession...

right, what happened to patient confidentiality...although I would assume she is not mentioning the name. Well the reference is bad enough. Putting it in the PS is definitely a reason for red flags and brings into question her discretion and integrity; it should not be done.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Your statement implies that if we knew how this man got HIV, we then could judge him. It really doesn't matter how he got HIV. Would you as a physician treat him differently if he got it from receptive anal intercourse? or from group sex while high on methamphetamines? or from an inmate stabbing him with a contaminated needle in jail? or from a former girlfriend? or from working with HIV+ blood in a lab? You're job as a physician is not to judge, but to treat the person for their illness. And such judging is one reason (of many) that this epidemic has killed and infected as many people as it has-- because people judge and lay blame on those infected, which no surprise, prevents further people from seeking help for this disease.

Ok, I can see why you are saying this. However I was more harping on the fact that people were judging these HIV people and that was wrong. I was merely taking it a step further saying some of them are totally innocent and are victims of actions beyond their control. Sorry but i think there is a difference of unwillingly contracting the virus from a contaminated blood supply and willingly engaging in anal intercourse with an infected person. It's a matter of good judgement and being an innocent victim.

 

[microbe hunter]

Ok, I can see why you are saying this. However I was more harping on the fact that people were judging these HIV people and that was wrong. I was merely taking it a step further saying some of them are totally innocent and are victims of actions beyond their control. Sorry but i think there is a difference of unwillingly contracting the virus from a contaminated blood supply and willingly engaging in anal intercourse with an infected person. It's a matter of good judgement and being an innocent victim.

There's definitely a difference. Those who got HIV from unprotected sexual intercourse truly made a mistake- I don't think that anyone would disagree with that. The only question is, 'is HIV too harsh of a penalty?' I'd say it is. Just because one makes a mistake doesn't necessarily mean that one deserves to suffer. I'd say it depends on the mistake. You may say that it's a consequence of the mistake, but I believe that HIV is too cruel of a punishment. Some 'punishments' do not fit the 'crime'. HIV patients aren't robbers or burglars- and hell, some criminals get out of jail too, too soon. Yet, for many of the patients who have to live with HIV, it is a life sentence.

In the medical world, perhaps especially in ER's, trauma patients are there who may have made mistakes that may even be classified as 'boneheaded'. I think it's important to forgive the patient, at least for the time being, to effectively treat that person. It could be a specialty in itself to walk around the hospital assigning the proper amount of blame to each patient. I just think that it's a conflict of interest for the doctor to be the one doing so.

 

[Brain]

I think the reason why this person should not mention that she's in a serious relationship with an HIV+ man can be found by reading previous posts. Most people, myself included, have wondered about the sexual nature of her relationship. You don't want an adcom scanning your application or an interviewer looking across the table at you and wondering "What kind of sex is she having?". She may be a gifted writer and can possibly spin her PS so that such thoughts won't easily arise, but I don't think too many people could pull that off.

 

[MoosePilot]

right, what happened to patient confidentiality...although I would assume she is not mentioning the name. Well the reference is bad enough. Putting it in the PS is definitely a reason for red flags and brings into question her discretion and integrity; it should not be done.

Patient confidentiality, not boyfriend confidentiality.

Does she have a medical relationship with the guy? Did she find out his condition at the hospital? HIPAA doesn't apply to your life

 

[PookieGirl]

Ok, I can see why you are saying this. However I was more harping on the fact that people were judging these HIV people and that was wrong. I was merely taking it a step further saying some of them are totally innocent and are victims of actions beyond their control. Sorry but i think there is a difference of unwillingly contracting the virus from a contaminated blood supply and willingly engaging in anal intercourse with an infected person. It's a matter of good judgement and being an innocent victim.

As a doctor though it shouldn't matter how someone gets a disease at least in terms of whether you think they are innocent or lacked what is in your mind good judgement. As a doctor, you treat them without judging them. So you're insistence that some are "totally innocent" still indicates you're willingness to judge people. Hopefully as you see patients, you lose that attitude.

 

[bananaface]

I think any school that won't accept you for who you are can shove it.

I met a guy who was engaged to be married in 1982, then got HIV from a cut he sustained while performing an autopsy. He's been married for 23 years now. (Full blown AIDS for the past 10 years). I presume that they use condoms and have not had breakage.

 

[CoffeeCat]

We know from this thread that regardless of whether it's positive or negative attention, if she applies with this PS, her application will not be ignored...

 

[Psycho Doctor]

As a doctor though it shouldn't matter how someone gets a disease at least in terms of whether you think they are innocent or lacked what is in your mind good judgement. As a doctor, you treat them without judging them. So you're insistence that some are "totally innocent" still indicates you're willingness to judge people. Hopefully as you see patients, you lose that attitude.

give me a freaken break...why are you attacking me? I am not judging anyone; i was merely using an example. Why aren't you all over those who actually are saying those who deliberately used indiscriminates sex with an HIV infected person deserves it.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Patient confidentiality, not boyfriend confidentiality.

Does she have a medical relationship with the guy? Did she find out his condition at the hospital? HIPAA doesn't apply to your life

yea ok, i was not meaning to imply he wa sher patoient. i was just associating how one's flip behavior regarding privacy can be applied to patients, much in the same manner that one may associate honesty in life or lack of compassion for others to be similar in their dealings with patients....

 

[Psycho Doctor]

There's definitely a difference. Those who got HIV from unprotected sexual intercourse truly made a mistake- I don't think that anyone would disagree with that. The only question is, 'is HIV too harsh of a penalty?' I'd say it is. Just because one makes a mistake doesn't necessarily mean that one deserves to suffer. I'd say it depends on the mistake. You may say that it's a consequence of the mistake, but I believe that HIV is too cruel of a punishment. Some 'punishments' do not fit the 'crime'. HIV patients aren't robbers or burglars- and hell, some criminals get out of jail too, too soon. Yet, for many of the patients who have to live with HIV, it is a life sentence.

In the medical world, perhaps especially in ER's, trauma patients are there who may have made mistakes that may even be classified as 'boneheaded'. I think it's important to forgive the patient, at least for the time being, to effectively treat that person. It could be a specialty in itself to walk around the hospital assigning the proper amount of blame to each patient. I just think that it's a conflict of interest for the doctor to be the one doing so.

Pookie Girl seems to disagree...read her attacks on me....

and are you tlaking about God's sentence on HIV patients? If that's the case, then you can apply that to any sick or dying patient, especially those who suffer a horrible death of those never given a chance at life...

I agree with you, anyone who has an issue with how one contracted a disease needs to "forgive" the person and treat the patient as he would any other patient.

 

[MoosePilot]

yea ok, i was not meaning to imply he wa sher patoient. i was just associating how one's flip behavior regarding privacy can be applied to patients, much in the same manner that one may associate honesty in life or lack of compassion for others to be similar in their dealings with patients....

Yes, but I know I used medical conditions of at least two family members in my essay, because it really did impact both how I felt about medicine and how much I knew about medicine. I don't think it's going to work against me, despite the fact that I id'd the "patients" in such a way that it would have violated HIPAA if I knew them in a professional setting.

 

[bananaface]

Pookie Girl seems to disagree...read her attacks on me....

and are you tlaking about God's sentence on HIV patients? If that's the case, then you can apply that to any sick or dying patient, especially those who suffer a horrible death of those never given a chance at life...

I agree with you, anyone who has an issue with how one contracted a disease needs to "forgive" the person and treat the patient as he would any other patient.

I don't think she was attacking you. I think she was saying what you said in your final paragraph of this post, because your previous post gave her the impression that you did not feel this way.

 

[masterMood]

what happens when the woman gets into med. school because of this advantage and then dumps the man.

that's what i see from this "debacle," and I think this woman knows this is very weird and immoral too

 

[~~premed82~~]

You present a possible situation, however, I don't think she would (at least I hope not) risk her life only to use him on her ps. Then again, some folks think and do just about anything to get what they want?

what happens when the woman gets into med. school because of this advantage and then dumps the man.

that's what i see from this "debacle," and I think this woman knows this is very weird and immoral too

 

[heech]

I still don't understand some of the posters on here that are reluctant to acknowledge the capabilities of this virus though. Just because a few of you might know some people that have lived with HIV+ for 5-20+ years does not make you an authority figure on the transmission risks, the body's ability or inability to combat the infection, and the realization of its full impact. Five, twenty, or even 1000 people that have been living HIV+ for some few years is hardly anything in comparison to the tens of millions that die each year.

Well, that paragraph really goes far in helping us gain insight into the *source* of your ignorance. A few posters have already expressed frustration with your opinionated stance, and I think the source of the frustration comes not from the disagreement... it's the sheer irrationality of the disagreement. But, I for one am not ready to get frustrated quite yet...

First, it seemed like your opinions were based on a mistaken understanding of the transmission risks of HIV. Again, the risk of HIV transmission for protected partners (especially with HIV+ partners on regular meds, and with low viral load) is low... not dramatically different from pre-med students that might be engaging in promiscious, unprotected sex.

Now it seems you're totally mistaken again, this time as to the survivability of the HIV virus, at least in the United States (which is what we're talking about, right?). Exactly opposite of what you suggested above, the numbers show that *a million* Americans are living with HIV/AIDS, while a few tens of thousands of Americans are dying from it every year.

At the end of 2003, the median estimate from the UN AIDS/HIV programme estimated 950k infected Americans, and 14k deaths. That's right: of the total population of HIV/AIDS carriers within the United States, about 1.5% die every year. That means 98.5% *survive* on an annual basis.

http://www.unaids.org/html/pub/publications/fact-sheets01/usa_en_pdf.pdf

C'mon people...don't tell me that if this situation ever happened to someone and they told the rest of the world that they were going to marry an HIV+ man, virtually everyone would think she was crazy. Sometime's people don't know what's best for them.

C'mon LVDoc, haven't you quite figured out yet that you aren't qualified to speak for the rest of the world? Haven't you noticed yet that there are at least a few folks on this thread that aren't horrified by the idea? And we accept the OP's friends choice not because we're ignorant about the risks, but because we understand them.

 

[heech]

what happens when the woman gets into med. school because of this advantage and then dumps the man.

Uhm, I think you're confused.

Claiming you have a HIV+ boyfriend/husband isn't the same thing as claiming you're the member of an under-represented minority. The intent isn't that the adcom accepts the applicant because they feel bad for the woman... its because she's claiming special insight into the challenges and opportunities of modern medicine.

That insight (if real) doesn't change regardless of who she ends up marrying.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Yes, but I know I used medical conditions of at least two family members in my essay, because it really did impact both how I felt about medicine and how much I knew about medicine. I don't think it's going to work against me, despite the fact that I id'd the "patients" in such a way that it would have violated HIPAA if I knew them in a professional setting.

opps so did i ; my apologies. I guess the whole thing just got me b/c of the way people attacked the OP's friend. so sorry; i was out of line

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I don't think she was attacking you. I think she was saying what you said in your final paragraph of this post, because your previous post gave her the impression that you did not feel this way.

well then she misunderstood me and i misunderstood her perceived attacks

 

[seasurfer]

I am sure anyone who received her PS will definitely be interested in knowing more. We can see from this forum that this thread is getting unusual attention in such a short period of time, so we can assume that those interviewers might have such "curiosities".

Thus, her application will be one of the most "outstanding one". I believe most interviewers will surely remember her compare to those "everyday-PS", hence she stands a higher chance of getting admitted if she is lucky to have broadminded interviewer and vice versa.

 

[on_the_fence]

If they marry, will she be having sex with that man? Isn't that attempted murder?

It is only attempted murder if the person with HIV does not tell his/her sexual partner that he/she has HIV. She is making a conscious decision -- he has done his part by telling her of his condition.

As far as putting it in your personal statement, I think there is still a lot of stigma (unfortunately) -- it would be risky, but it could pay off. I think imrep1972 had a good idea in saying that it was a close friend.

Too many ppl get the heebie jeebies around HIV; I can understand why, but in the end they're just people who had the misfortune of getting a fatal virus regardless of how it was transmitted.

 

[MoosePilot]

opps so did i ; my apologies. I guess the whole thing just got me b/c of the way people attacked the OP's friend. so sorry; i was out of line

I know you did, I just wasn't going to mention it if you didn't

We both did the same thing and I don't think either of us compromised anyone's privacy. Neither would this woman, because her bf's life is part of hers.

 

[LVDoc]

...

I already admitted in a prior post that I read the original data wrong; the chance of contracting HIV is 4.5% within 5 years and 9% within 10 years assuming condoms are always used. The study also did not report the frequency of sexual activity, but from what I read somewhere else, it was once/week.

Well, 4.5% or even 0.9% per year is still a risk.

Also, no, I did not specifically mention the United States when I said millions die each year.

http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm

3.1 million are dead each year due to AIDS.

Even using sperm-washing in combination with intra-uterine insemination, some partners have still been infected.

Nothing you wrote really proves any other point than that the 'transmission risk is low.' OK, great, the risk is still there. This isn't comparable to saying that the risk is there when having sex with anyone, because this girl knows her partner has HIV.

You can agree to disagree with me all you want, as can anyone else here. I would never trust a physician with the kind of faulty logic that this woman is about to demonstrate. This is my own personal opinion; that is it. This will also be my last post on this particular thread; I believe I've already said all that I needed to.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I know you did, I just wasn't going to mention it if you didn't

We both did the same thing and I don't think either of us compromised anyone's privacy. Neither would this woman, because her bf's life is part of hers.

yea, true. i have no clue why I didn't make that association or why i said what i did earlier. Seriously, i can't think straight any more, i'm getting worried.

 

[beep]

HIV+ is thought to be carried in the semen, not the actual sperm; it is possible to "wash" HIV from the semen, thereby isolating the sperm, however no conclusive trials have been in place to test the efficacy or the risk of infection from this. After "washing" HIV away from the semen, in-vitro fertilization or intra-uterine insemination can be used. If she carries out with her plans, this could be one method she could possibility resort to. She would have better success doing this in the UK or Italy, because they have been exploring these options for a lot longer.

I know a serodiscordant couple in the SF Bay area who have done this twice; mom and babies are all still negative.

 

[beep]

Yesterday, I was pleased to see the support out there for someone that asked whether they should give med school a chance, despite being partially paralyzed.

sorry for the off-topic interjection, but which thread was this? i searched but couldn't find it.

 

[worriedwell]

a reply to the OP without passion or prejudice (hopefully)...

if the question is simply, "is it strategically wise or unwise to use this relationship as the basis for a personal statement?"

my answer is that i think it is unwise. i believe the evidence from reading this thread indicates that a large number of people have different opinions and will draw different conclusions from the information. to be accepted into medical school, you need to avoid any red flags. i believe that when an admission committee is sitting at the table and they are admitting 150 people into their class, and they have thousands of applicants to choose from, they will want to play it "safe" so to speak. that is, there are many qualified people and it only takes one vocal member of the adcom to say no, and the application is in the trash. the reason it may be viewed as an unsafe applicant to accept goes into speculation, as has been debated here, but there are many "potential" reasons that may raise concern. you have no reason to think that people are going to argue on your behalf as an applicant, especially is someone else on the committee feels strongly that you shouldn't be accepted for whatever reason.

that being said, i could see some people wanting to interview the applicant just to have a conversation about the topic, but that still doesn't translate into acceptance and i think statistically it probably will hurt her more than it helps her. if she has all the other "tools" to gain acceptance, she shouldn't go for something so difficult to swallow (regardless of the "real" moral or judgement issues at hand) even if it is important to her.

this strategic question actually came into play when applying for a psychiatry residency for me...as many people interested in psychiatry have personal stories that affected their decision to enter the field, my advisor told us all not to divulge information that is too personal because they are always looking for reasons to dismiss your application in personal statements, if they aren't comfortable with your suitability to perform you tasks. don't give them any reasons to think that. the advice is "safe" yes, but it works for most people who are otherwise qualified and evidence based approaches to who is accepted (in my experience) lends more credibility to the argument that it is best a topic to be avoided.

 

[dopaminophile]

...the risk of HIV transmission for protected partners (especially with HIV+ partners on regular meds, and with low viral load) is low... not dramatically different from pre-med students that might be engaging in promiscious, unprotected sex.

LVDoc has already addressed the USA vs World statistics, discrepency, but the above quote is even more bothersome to me because it is just inaccurate.

Using the data calculated earlier, a the chances of an HIV+ male transmitting to a HIV- female in a normal, protected sexual relationship over 5 years is roughly 4.5%.

That is assuming that 100% of all the female's sexual partners are HIV+. National data estimates that 0.6% of the American adult population is HIV+, knowingly or unknowingly. (http://www.avert.org/aids-america.htm). Assuming the average female is having roughly the same amount of sex as the one in the committed relationship, and all of it is protected, she is slightly less than 200 times less likely to get HIV in any given period of time than the woman in a committed relationship to an HIV positive male. Or, she has a .0225% chance of becoming infected with normal, frequent, protected sex.

You specifically said "unprotected sex," so let's figure out those chances. If the infection rate for a woman who is having 100% of her sexual encounters with HIV+ men and they're unprotected is 6.8 per 100 years, you can say she has a 34% chance of infection in 5 years. For the average woman who is having 0.6% of her encounters with HIV+ men, this makes for a .17% chance of becoming infected in 5 years.

So, a female having protected sex exclusively with an HIV positive man has a 4.5% chance of becoming infected in 5 years. A female having the same amount of sex, only all unprotected, with the general populace has a 0.17% chance of becoming infected in 5 years. In other words, the OP's friend having protected sex is 26.5 times more likely to become infected with HIV than is a normal female having unprotected sex.

Many of the assumptions that I made are clearly a stretch (e.g. a single person has as much sex as a woman in a committed relationship over a 5 year span as well as how the 0.6% of the populace would break down), but the difference between reality and my assumptions usually only widens the gap. This means that the 26.5 figure is probably quite a bit lower than the actual figure.

Also, for those that might not have read the entire thread, I'm only talking about male to female transmission because that's the scenario in the OP, not for any sexist motives. The numbers could easily be done for female to male using the data in the abstract on pg 2 of this thread.