Programs I SHOULD apply to

[Datypicalpremed]

So read the post about radiation oncology “hellpits” and found it quite informative. But now, I ask the opposite question: which programs should a US MD actually apply/aim for?

This thread:

Rad onc rankings

I would remove Hopkins from the A list and Duke from the B list. Those are reasonable suggestions. While Duke doesn't always get a lot of love on here, several chairs I talked to were pretty high on the place and their academic placement seems solid. Hopkins got a lot of buzz on the interview...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Was last updated like…ages ago. But from what I gather, some of the top programs appear to be: Harvard. MSK, MD Anderson, Penn, John’s Hopkins, U Wash, U Mich, Stanford, UCSF, Yale, Duke, U Chicago, UCSD, Mayo, UF, Cleveland…

Are these the programs students in this upcoming match cycle should be aiming for? Are there any programs that I’m missing?

And for the record, yes we know the job market is in the toilet. But I figure it’ll be helpful to at least know which programs have the reputation/support to help their graduates out when it comes time to enter the fire

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[elementaryschooleconomics]

Very few programs actually "educate" you in practical/meaningful ways. For at least two decades, the entire field (including board exams) have been obsessed with worthless trivia and CV-padding fluff from a ridiculous amount of elective time. And ultimately, your personal educational experience will be very faculty/staff-dependent, so a few key turnovers will render a program unrecognizable due to how small each department is.

That being said, if you can't see yourself doing literally anything else:

1) Look for big programs (3 or greater residents per year)
2) Look for "name brand" programs that your average American would think is a "good" school

That's it. The exceptions to Rule #2 are obviously Sloan and Anderson. While we tend to forget this after years of being steeped in academic training, outside of their geographic region, a lot of people don't know about Sloan/Anderson until they get cancer. But they hold a lot of weight with people doing the hiring, and have big alumni networks.

If you insist on doing RadOnc in this day and age, I have a timeshare pitch for you at 4PM, and can get you a great side hustle with Mary Kay.

 

[medgator]

Very few programs actually "educate" you in practical/meaningful ways. For at least two decades, the entire field (including board exams) have been obsessed with worthless trivia and CV-padding fluff from a ridiculous amount of elective time. And ultimately, your personal educational experience will be very faculty/staff-dependent, so a few key turnovers will render a program unrecognizable due to how small each department is.

That being said, if you can't see yourself doing literally anything else:

1) Look for big programs (3 or greater residents per year)
2) Look for "name brand" programs that your average American would think is a "good" school

That's it. The exceptions to Rule #2 are obviously Sloan and Anderson. While we tend to forget this after years of being steeped in academic training, outside of their geographic region, a lot of people don't know about Sloan/Anderson until they get cancer. But they hold a lot of weight with people doing the hiring, and have big alumni networks.

If you insist on doing RadOnc in this day and age, I have a timeshare pitch for you at 4PM, and can get you a great side hustle with Mary Kay.

Honestly, alumni network and recent job placement stats probably trump everything else at this point, even board pass rates

Columbia and Dartmouth sound like "great names" to the average person, but that's not going to help imo for when the job hunt is on

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

So read the post about radiation oncology “hellpits” and found it quite informative. But now, I ask the opposite question: which programs should a US MD actually apply/aim for?

This thread:

Rad onc rankings

I would remove Hopkins from the A list and Duke from the B list. Those are reasonable suggestions. While Duke doesn't always get a lot of love on here, several chairs I talked to were pretty high on the place and their academic placement seems solid. Hopkins got a lot of buzz on the interview...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Was last updated like…ages ago. But from what I gather, some of the top programs appear to be: Harvard. MSK, MD Anderson, Penn, John’s Hopkins, U Wash, U Mich, Stanford, UCSF, Yale, Duke, U Chicago, UCSD, Mayo, UF, Cleveland…

Are these the programs students in this upcoming match cycle should be aiming for? Are there any programs that I’m missing?

And for the record, yes we know the job market is in the toilet. But I figure it’ll be helpful to at least know which programs have the reputation/support to help their graduates out when it comes time to enter the fire

Support? Hate to tell you this, but support is a farce, unless you mean trying to force you to commit to an underpaid satellite job early in the job search process. If you really feel you must go into this, go to the brand name program in the region in which you want to live. Or do something else.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Honestly, alumni network and recent job placement stats probably trump everything else, even board pass rates

Columbia and Dartmouth sound like "great names" to the average person, but that's not going to help imo for when the job hunt is on

Good point. "It's not who you know, it's who knows you" and whatnot.

The majority (all?) of my major (and minor) accomplishments have come from friends, or friends of friends, or friends of friends of friends.

I compound the Friends Advantage by having applied Rule #1 and #2, and having various other shiny baubles on my CV.

People love shiny baubles.

 

[RickyScott]

Support? Hate to tell you this, but support is a farce, unless you mean trying to force you to commit to an underpaid satellite job early in the job search process. If you really feel you must go into this, go to the brand name program in the region in which you want to live. Or do something else.

Would second this. Hopefully, you are aware that the footprint of radiation in cancer is declining.

 

[Fpg1245]

Why don’t you just burn your medical degree? Doing this is basically the same effect. Prestige isn’t gonna save you.

 

[Burt Radnolds]

Don't underestimate regional effect. Hiring is tedious and a bad hire is hard to unwind. Smart groups know this and are looking to hit the long term home run. The more reasons they think you will want to stay in the area, the better.

 

[Datypicalpremed]

HAH! This is why I enjoy lurking this sub forum - so much more entertaining than the others 😂

But yeah, unfortunately I’ve decided rad onc is the field for me. Fell in love with it a long time ago and it’s the only one I can see myself going into. Or maybe it’s just Stockholm syndrome. Guess we’ll find out in a few years…

Anyways, thanks to the more serious responders. As a follow up question, there are quite a few programs I am interested in that I guess are “borderline name brand.” For those on this forum more well-versed in how radiation programs compare network-wise, mind if I DM you with a list of these programs and get your opinion on how they compare? I know it’s a small field and based on this list it’ll become very obvious where I’m from geographically - and would prefer to avoid publicly doxing myself before the match cycle starts 😉

 

[Bequerel]

If I had to be a radiation oncologist nowadays, I’d make sure I completed my internal medicine residency and medical oncology fellowship first. Then and only then, if I still had to be a radiation oncologist, I’d complete a radiation oncology residency. I’d treat it like an 9 year residency (3 years IM, 2 years Med onc and 4 years rad onc). You’d probably decide just to stop and be a medical oncologist after 5 years, but if you still had the itch, at least you’d be able to locum during your cush radiation oncology residency and make an easy 6 figures. If you were boarded in both, you might actually have a chance to still have a job and make a decent living in the 2040’s

 

[RickyScott]

At the very least, I would do an IM residency.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

HAH! This is why I enjoy lurking this sub forum - so much more entertaining than the others 😂

But yeah, unfortunately I’ve decided rad onc is the field for me. Fell in love with it a long time ago and it’s the only one I can see myself going into. Or maybe it’s just Stockholm syndrome. Guess we’ll find out in a few years…

Anyways, thanks to the more serious responders. As a follow up question, there are quite a few programs I am interested in that I guess are “borderline name brand.” For those on this forum more well-versed in how radiation programs compare network-wise, mind if I DM you with a list of these programs and get your opinion on how they compare? I know it’s a small field and based on this list it’ll become very obvious where I’m from geographically - and would prefer to avoid publicly doxing myself before the match cycle starts 😉

My DMs are always open.

 

[medgator]

My DMs are always open.

View attachment 359493

Short of another IMRT black swan happening, nope

 

[RickyScott]

Short of another IMRT black swan happening, nope

This thread reflects the medstudent notion that once they get that first job, they are set.

 

[medgator]

This thread reflects the medstudent notion that once they get that first job, they are set.

When the statistics ironically show quite the opposite.

IRL i struggle to think of a single RO i know of who is still at their first job. Literally not a single person.

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

You either wanna do this or you don't. If you're someone who will only rank the top 10 programs, and then rank another specialty entirely number 11, just do the other specialty. I recognize the op said "aim for," which is a valid question. As others have said, look at where the alumni ended up and where you'd like to be. At the same time, oddly enough, the incoming residents have where they want to be totally backwards. The spreadsheets seem to laud the percentage of grads that stay in academics. "Academics" sucks, ask any pgy5...

 

[RickyScott]

When the statistics ironically show quite the opposite.

IRL i struggle to think of a single RO i know of who is still at their first job. Literally not a single person.

Probably going forward there won’t be much lateral mobility.

 

[medgator]

At the same time, oddly enough, the incoming residents have where they want to be totally backwards. The spreadsheets seem to laud the percentage of grads that stay in academics. "Academics" sucks, ask any pgy5...

Look at where 6/7 Anderson grads ended up over a year ago.... Can't imagine the most recent cycle was any different

 

[medgator]

Probably going forward there won’t be much lateral mobility.

There isn't now in many desirable areas. Noncompetes ensure you pretty much leave the area and very few places with multiple practices competing with each other, as hospital consolidation has been rampant in many markets

 

[deleted1111261]

Look at where 6/7 Anderson grads ended up over a year ago.... Can't imagine the most recent cycle was any different

Yeah they are all very happy! Maybe not the best example?

 

[medgator]

Yeah they are all very happy! Maybe not the best example?

Well known (some would the) program with a slightly academic bent and rep? Why not?

If that's what the Anderson grads are doing, are you expecting Rochester and Alleghany grads to take the Anderson and sloane academic gigs?

 

[deleted1111261]

Misunderstood!

 

[resident#]

OP: Sometimes you don't know what you actually want until you experience things that you realized you never wanted. I came into this field with various academic interests and most of those have dissipated over time with my residency experience. Perhaps my mind may change in the future, but if I had to make a decision to choose to go into this field today, I would not. If you are set on this field, I like the "top programs" list that you suggested and agree those are probably the best bet for places to go. However, keep in mind that even if you go to these programs you might not actually end up where you want to.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

all I am simply asking is be very careful who you rank and match. Beware of the hellpits. i wish you luck in your career. Welcome to the field!

 

[Reaganite]

Choose ucla. Ask for a guy named Drew M as your mentor. Thank me later.

 

[medgator]

Choose ucla. Ask for a guy named Drew M as your mentor. Thank me later.

Nothing says winner like a guy that can't even keep the same VA job for a few years....

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

 

[CurbYourExpectations]

Apply to two specialties and then see what is said about the job market analysis coming up (if it says anything at all)

 

[RickyScott]

Consider joining the Russian army.

 

[fiji128]

Here is a list of programs based on size. Consider programs with less then 10 resident positions with extreme caution as a US MD.


Dartmouth est 2018. 4 resident positions
University of Arkansas est 2017. 4 resident positions
West Virginia University est 2016. 4 resident positions
Stony Brook est 2016. 4 resident positions
University of Tennessee est 2015. 4 resident positions
Cedars Sinai est 2013. 4 resident positions
Mayo Clinic Arizona est 2013. 4 resident positions
University of Nebraska est 2010. 4 resident positions
University of Mississippi est 2010. 4 resident positions
Mayo Clinic Jacksonville est 2005. 4 resident positions
Allegheny Health Network est 1994. 4 resident positions
University of California Irvine est 1978. 5 resident positions
Brooklyn Methodist est 1974. 5 resident positions
University of Texas Medical Branch est 1972. 5 resident positions
Loma Linda est 1973. 5 resident positions
City of Hope est 2008. 6 resident positions
University of Oklahoma est 2007. 6 resident positions
University of Kentucky est 1994. 6 resident positions
University of Buffalo est 1993. 6 resident positions
National Capital Consortium est 1981. 6 resident positions
Georgetown est 1981. 6 resident positions
University of Kansas est 1977. 6 resident positions
University of Texas San Antonio est 1976. 6 positions
University of Virginia est 1972. 6 resident positions
Henry Ford est 1972. 6 resident positions
SUNY Upstate est 1971. 6 resident positions
Oregon Health and Science University est 1970. 6 resident positions
University of Minnesota est 1970. 6 resident positions
Rush est 1969. 6 resident positions
Case Western Reserve est 2000. 6 resident positions
University of California Davis est 2004. 7 resident positions
University of Iowa est 1977. 7 resident positions
Medical University of South Carolina est 1976. 7 resident positions
University of Arizona est 1973. 7 resident positions
Wake Forrest est 1971. 7 resident positions
Albert Einstein est 1970. 7 resident positions
University of Southern California est 1970. 7 resident positions
Hofstra/Northwell est 2012. 8 resident positions
Columbia est 1973. 8 resident positions
Texas A and M est 2011. 8 resident positions
University of Colorado est 2003. 8 resident positions
University of Pittsburgh est 2001. 8 resident positions
Kaiser Permanente Los Angeles est 1985. 8 resident positions
Baylor College of Medicine est 1981. 8 resident positions
University of Louisville est 1974. 8 resident positions
Medical College of Wisconsin est 1974. 8 resident positions
Loyola est 1974. 8 resident positions
Wayne State est 1973. 8 resident positions
University of North Carolina est 1973. 8 resident positions
University of Wisconsin est 1973. 8 resident positions
University of Cincinnati est 1972. 8 resident positions
Virginia Commonwealth University est 1969. 8 resident positions
University of Rochester est 1971. 8 resident positions
SUNY Downstate est 1969. 8 resident positions
Northwestern University est 1972. 8 resident positions
Rutgers est 2005. 9 resident positions
Fox Chase est 1992. 9 resident positions
Indiana University est 1976. 9 resident positions
Tufts est 1971. 9 resident positions
University of Florida est 1969. 9 resident positions
University of South Florida est 2007. 10 resident positions
Vanderbilt est 2001. 10 resident positions
Mount Sinai est 1991. 10 resident positions
University of Utah est 1972. 10 resident positions
New York University est 1971. 10 resident positions
Ohio State University est 1971. 10 resident positions
University of Washington est 1970. 10 resident positions
Thomas Jefferson est 1973.11 resident positions
University of Michigan est 1971. 11 resident positions
University of California San Diego est in 2010. 12 resident positions
University of Chicago est 1985. 12 resident positions
Cleveland Clinic est 1974. 12 resident positions
Beaumont est 1974. 12 resident positions
University of Maryland est 1973. 12 resident positions
University of Miami est 1973. 12 resident positions
University of Alabama est 1973. 12 resident positions
Mayo Clinic Rochester est 1972. 12 resident positions
University of California Los Angeles est 1970. 12 resident position
University of California San Francisco est 1971. 13 resident positions
Duke University est 1969. 14 resident positions
University of Texas Southwestern est 2005. 14 resident positions
Yale est 1969. 14 resident positions
Emory est 1993. 16 resident positions
John Hopkins est 1974. 16 resident positions
Washington University est 1971. 16 resident positions
Stanford est in 1970. 17 resident positions
University of Pennsylvania est 1973. 18 resident positions
Memorial Sloan Kettering est 1971. 24 positions
MD Anderson est 1970. 28 resident positions
Harvard Combined Program est 2002. 30 resident positions

 

[deleted1111261]

Harvard has 30 spots
AGH has 4.

Trying to move the numbers means everyone has to shrink, and larger programs more. Expecting smaller programs to contract is taxing the poor - doesn’t achieve goals (of overall substantial contraction / generating optimal revenue)

 

[fiji128]

Harvard has 30 spots
AGH has 4.

Trying to move the numbers means everyone has to shrink, and larger programs more. Expecting smaller programs to contract is taxing the poor.

To be fair, Harvard is officially approved for 30 residents but currently has 26 enrolled, so it would seem they have soft contracted 1 spot per year.

Program numbers by size:

4 resident 11 programs for 44 positions.
5 resident 3 programs for 15 positions.
6 resident 15 programs for 90 positions.
7 resident 8 programs for 56 positions.
8 resident 17 programs for 136 positions.
9 resident 6 programs for 54 positions.
10 resident 7 programs for 70 positions.
11 resident 2 programs for 22 positions.
12 resident 9 programs for 108 positions.
13 resident 1 program for 13 positions.
14 resident 3 programs for 42 positions.
16 resident 3 programs for 48 positions.
17 resident 1 program for 17 positions.
18 resident 1 program for 18 positions.
24 resident 1 program for 24 positions.
28 resident 1 program for 28 positions.
30 resident 1 program for 30 positions.

 

[metallica81788]

Also note attending : resident ratio - lower that goes the higher likelihood of finding attendings that don't know how to exist without resident, double coverage for vacation, poor teaching, etc

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

This would be my list, in general:

HOWEVER:

I don't actually think these are the programs that give the best education. I think Maryland, for example, produces great Radiation Oncologists. But that doesn't really matter now, does it?

Also, this is location agnostic. If I wanted to go to a specific region, I'd stick with programs in that region (but always HROP, Sloan, and Anderson).

 

[medgator]

Here is a list of programs based on size. Consider programs with less then 10 resident positions with extreme caution as a US MD.

Good rule of thumb although i think there are some decent ones in the 8-10 range.

I think most can agree that, at this point, no need to go to a smaller program as a us MD (anything <8 residents).

 

[medgator]

Harvard has 30 spots
AGH has 4.

Trying to move the numbers means everyone has to shrink, and larger programs more. Expecting smaller programs to contract is taxing the poor - doesn’t achieve goals (of overall substantial contraction / generating optimal revenue)

Which one has better tech, a better faculty: resident ratio and a better case mix/exposure?

Could argue MGH/Dana/bwh is the **** in beantown while Alleghany plays the role of being the case western of Pittsburgh.

Size isn't a perfect correlate to quality but it's probably better than 50/50 @fiji128

I still think a good rule of thumb would be to not even look at programs with less than 8 residents at this point. Off the bat, that will weed out many newer/weaker and frankly, unnecessary, training programs from consideration

 

[fiji128]

Overall size probably collates well with quality and outcomes but of course not everything will fit the trend. Given the lack of other publicly available data such as board pass rates, resident transfers, case numbers, positions filled in the first round match, faculty turn over ect... not sure how else one can objectively look at it.

Also, I'd probably avoid Emory. Program has recently has been filling in the SOAP and will be starting with a new chair.

 

[deleted1116990]

OP, are you someone with a personality that is indecisive and often looks back and wonders what if or are you somebody with a more positive attitude who can make the best of whatever hand life deals you?

I would say in this day and age, to go into rad onc, you need to be the kind of person that can make the best of whatever situation they find themselves in with a smile on their face. There is a chance you may find yourself alone in rural West Texas trying to treat a handful of patients on an old Siemens LINAC in a dingy clinic with a mold problem. You are in for a world of pain if you are going to spend every day torturing yourself comparing yourself to your classmates who went into ortho and now live in a McMansion in a rich suburb and are always at the country club or on some lavish international vacation.

 

[deleted1111261]

To be fair, Harvard is officially approved for 30 residents but currently has 26 enrolled, so it would seem they have soft contracted 1 spot per year.

Program numbers by size:

4 resident 11 programs for 44 positions.
5 resident 3 programs for 15 positions.
6 resident 15 programs for 90 positions.
7 resident 8 programs for 56 positions.
8 resident 17 programs for 136 positions.
9 resident 6 programs for 54 positions.
10 resident 7 programs for 70 positions.
11 resident 2 programs for 22 positions.
12 resident 9 programs for 108 positions.
13 resident 1 program for 13 positions.
14 resident 3 programs for 42 positions.
16 resident 3 programs for 48 positions.
17 resident 1 program for 17 positions.
18 resident 1 program for 18 positions.
24 resident 1 program for 24 positions.
28 resident 1 program for 28 positions.
30 resident 1 program for 30 positions.

341 residents in programs 8 or under in 51 programs. Each program has about ~7 residents

474 residents in programs >8 in 36 programs. Each program has about ~13 residents.

The smaller programs are simply not shutting down. The requirements were watered down to the point of irrelevance.

Efficacy - i.e. - actually contracting - will require the work of all programs and larger programs will carry a higher burden. In fact, they are the ones actually doing something about it. The breathless calls for WVU and others to close down are met with blank stares. Didn't Columbia just expand in last 5 years?

Better tech / faculty ratio / teaching - should Mayo AZ expand??

Everyone needs to cut spots.

 

[deleted1116990]

Everyone needs to cut spots.

Seriously. Looking at that list just gave me a panic attack realizing just how many people are being trained for this tiny specialty. People are struggling to get jobs now, and once the boomers are all done retiring and have completely wrecked the locums pool by doubling its size, it's going to be a disaster to try and place 300 grads a year.

 

[fiji128]

341 residents in programs 8 or under in 51 programs. Each program has about ~7 residents

474 residents in programs >8 in 36 programs. Each program has about ~13 residents.

The smaller programs are simply not shutting down. The requirements were watered down to the point of irrelevance.

Efficacy - i.e. - actually contracting - will require the work of all programs and larger programs will carry a higher burden. In fact, they are the ones actually doing something about it. The breathless calls for WVU and others to close down are met with blank stares. Didn't Columbia just expand in last 5 years?

Better tech / faculty ratio / teaching - should Mayo AZ expand??

Everyone needs to cut spots.

Programs to have officially increased spots from 2019 to 2021; Loma Linda 5 to 6, Case Western Reserve 6 to 7, Columbia 6 to 8, Northwestern 8 to 9, Thomas Jefferson 9 to 11, Duke 13 to 14.

Programs to have officially increased spots from 2021 to 2022; None.

Programs to have officially decreased spots from 2021 to 2022; None.

 

[medgator]

Programs to have officially increased spots from 2019 to 2021; Loma Linda 5 to 6, Case Western Reserve 6 to 7, Columbia 6 to 8, Northwestern 8 to 9, Thomas Jefferson 9 to 11, Duke 13 to 14.

Programs to have officially increased spots from 2021 to 2022; None.

Programs to have officially decreased spots from 2021 to 2022; None.

By and large, the classy, solid training programs have been cutting filled spots in recent years and then you have this trash happening with other programs

OP, i wouldn't train at any of those quoted

 

[evilbooyaa]

Here is a list of programs based on size. Consider programs with less then 10 resident positions with extreme caution as a US MD.


Dartmouth est 2018. 4 resident positions
University of Arkansas est 2017. 4 resident positions
West Virginia University est 2016. 4 resident positions
Stony Brook est 2016. 4 resident positions
University of Tennessee est 2015. 4 resident positions
Cedars Sinai est 2013. 4 resident positions
Mayo Clinic Arizona est 2013. 4 resident positions
University of Nebraska est 2010. 4 resident positions
University of Mississippi est 2010. 4 resident positions
Mayo Clinic Jacksonville est 2005. 4 resident positions
Allegheny Health Network est 1994. 4 resident positions
University of California Irvine est 1978. 5 resident positions
Brooklyn Methodist est 1974. 5 resident positions
University of Texas Medical Branch est 1972. 5 resident positions
Loma Linda est 1973. 5 resident positions
City of Hope est 2008. 6 resident positions
University of Oklahoma est 2007. 6 resident positions
University of Kentucky est 1994. 6 resident positions
University of Buffalo est 1993. 6 resident positions
National Capital Consortium est 1981. 6 resident positions
Georgetown est 1981. 6 resident positions
University of Kansas est 1977. 6 resident positions
University of Texas San Antonio est 1976. 6 positions
University of Virginia est 1972. 6 resident positions
Henry Ford est 1972. 6 resident positions
SUNY Upstate est 1971. 6 resident positions
Oregon Health and Science University est 1970. 6 resident positions
University of Minnesota est 1970. 6 resident positions
Rush est 1969. 6 resident positions
Case Western Reserve est 2000. 6 resident positions
University of California Davis est 2004. 7 resident positions
University of Iowa est 1977. 7 resident positions
Medical University of South Carolina est 1976. 7 resident positions
University of Arizona est 1973. 7 resident positions
Wake Forrest est 1971. 7 resident positions
Albert Einstein est 1970. 7 resident positions
University of Southern California est 1970. 7 resident positions
Hofstra/Northwell est 2012. 8 resident positions
Columbia est 1973. 8 resident positions
Texas A and M est 2011. 8 resident positions
University of Colorado est 2003. 8 resident positions
University of Pittsburgh est 2001. 8 resident positions
Kaiser Permanente Los Angeles est 1985. 8 resident positions
Baylor College of Medicine est 1981. 8 resident positions
University of Louisville est 1974. 8 resident positions
Medical College of Wisconsin est 1974. 8 resident positions
Loyola est 1974. 8 resident positions
Wayne State est 1973. 8 resident positions
University of North Carolina est 1973. 8 resident positions
University of Wisconsin est 1973. 8 resident positions
University of Cincinnati est 1972. 8 resident positions
Virginia Commonwealth University est 1969. 8 resident positions
University of Rochester est 1971. 8 resident positions
SUNY Downstate est 1969. 8 resident positions
Northwestern University est 1972. 8 resident positions
Rutgers est 2005. 9 resident positions
Fox Chase est 1992. 9 resident positions
Indiana University est 1976. 9 resident positions
Tufts est 1971. 9 resident positions
University of Florida est 1969. 9 resident positions
University of South Florida est 2007. 10 resident positions
Vanderbilt est 2001. 10 resident positions
Mount Sinai est 1991. 10 resident positions
University of Utah est 1972. 10 resident positions
New York University est 1971. 10 resident positions
Ohio State University est 1971. 10 resident positions
University of Washington est 1970. 10 resident positions
Thomas Jefferson est 1973.11 resident positions
University of Michigan est 1971. 11 resident positions
University of California San Diego est in 2010. 12 resident positions
University of Chicago est 1985. 12 resident positions
Cleveland Clinic est 1974. 12 resident positions
Beaumont est 1974. 12 resident positions
University of Maryland est 1973. 12 resident positions
University of Miami est 1973. 12 resident positions
University of Alabama est 1973. 12 resident positions
Mayo Clinic Rochester est 1972. 12 resident positions
University of California Los Angeles est 1970. 12 resident position
University of California San Francisco est 1971. 13 resident positions
Duke University est 1969. 14 resident positions
University of Texas Southwestern est 2005. 14 resident positions
Yale est 1969. 14 resident positions
Emory est 1993. 16 resident positions
John Hopkins est 1974. 16 resident positions
Washington University est 1971. 16 resident positions
Stanford est in 1970. 17 resident positions
University of Pennsylvania est 1973. 18 resident positions
Memorial Sloan Kettering est 1971. 24 positions
MD Anderson est 1970. 28 resident positions
Harvard Combined Program est 2002. 30 resident positions

OP, welcome to the field. Seems you will be joining despite the protests of many who are not happy with their life choices. I am (at the current time) still happy with my life choice to have entered Rad Onc. I am definitely more fortunate than some of those on this board who are unhappy with their life situations, and I empathize as I would've likely felt similarly if I had ended up in their shoes.

I have bolded my recommendations for where a US MD should consider as your best options for training in 2022, primarily in terms of finding a good job. Outside of HROP/MDACC/Sloan, the biggest thing that will help you here is doing residency in the region that you want to be an attending in.

I have crossed out those that you should not consider as a US MD. IMO any NYC program not MSKCC and maybe NYU not worth it.

Stanford/JHU/Emory/TJU have reputations as being malignant at the resident level in terms of scut, double coverage, etc.

 

[Radonky]

HAH! This is why I enjoy lurking this sub forum - so much more entertaining than the others 😂

But yeah, unfortunately I’ve decided rad onc is the field for me. Fell in love with it a long time ago and it’s the only one I can see myself going into. Or maybe it’s just Stockholm syndrome. Guess we’ll find out in a few years…

Anyways, thanks to the more serious responders. As a follow up question, there are quite a few programs I am interested in that I guess are “borderline name brand.” For those on this forum more well-versed in how radiation programs compare network-wise, mind if I DM you with a list of these programs and get your opinion on how they compare? I know it’s a small field and based on this list it’ll become very obvious where I’m from geographically - and would prefer to avoid publicly doxing myself before the match cycle starts 😉

I am not from a top tier program, but was fortunate to land diverse interviews (top 5 academic programs, private practice, hospital based etc), and currently sitting on several competitive offers.

Echoing Evilbooyaa, also very happy with my career choice and I went into this field eyes wide open to it's challenges, but would rather be a rad onc in Kansas than a hospitalist.

Even if you end up going to a "middle tier" program, residency is what you make of it, so would still pursue it if you really love the field.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

I am not from a top tier program, but was fortunate to land diverse interviews (top 5 academic programs, private practice, hospital based etc), and currently sitting on several competitive offers.

Echoing Evilbooyaa, also very happy with my career choice and I went into this field eyes wide open to it's challenges, but would rather be a rad onc in Kansas than a hospitalist.

Even if you end up going to a "middle tier" program, residency is what you make of it, so would still pursue it if you really love the field.

This is a good post.

I do think that this is an "up" year for the job market, so I'm glad you're finding suitable offers.

 

[medgator]

This is a good post.

I do think that this is an "up" year for the job market, so I'm glad you're finding suitable offers.

I would say it's the best year in a few years and covid has created a favorable job market in this specialty similar to the labor shortages been created elsewhere. Some boomers have decided not to come back it seems

 

[indy2004]

If Rad Onc is where your passion is, you should pursue it - period
Smaller programs can provide excellent clinical training AND offer research opportunities AND treat their residents like professional learners (no scut work).
Smaller programs can assist residents with networking and jobs, too. Faculty who graduated elsewhere and/or have professional connections are just as willing to advocate for residents as program alumni.
Be careful with labeling places "the best". Sometimes they won't be the best fit for you. Sometimes they don't deserve their reputation, or their residents aren't really happy, but won't say it because they don't want to mare the reputation of the program that follows them forever.
Keep your options open and look at all programs before crossing them off your list due to one arbitrary filter or another. Programs are continually reminded to take a wholistic view of candidates. I encourage candidates to do the same with programs.

Good luck.

Those of you looking for jobs: in any field (medicine and otherwise), if you get 2/3: location, salary, job description/responsibilities. consider it a valid option. Hitting all 3 with your first at-bat is unlikely. And like another poster said, your first job is called your "first job" because it's highly likely a "second" one will follow.

 

[medgator]

If Rad Onc is where your passion is, you should pursue it - period
Smaller programs can provide excellent clinical training AND offer research opportunities AND treat their residents like professional learners (no scut work).
Smaller programs can assist residents with networking and jobs, too. Faculty who graduated elsewhere and/or have professional connections are just as willing to advocate for residents as program alumni.
Be careful with labeling places "the best". Sometimes they won't be the best fit for you.

IU PD?

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

IU PD?

?

 

[fiji128]

If Rad Onc is where your passion is, you should pursue it - period
Smaller programs can provide excellent clinical training AND offer research opportunities AND treat their residents like professional learners (no scut work).
Smaller programs can assist residents with networking and jobs, too. Faculty who graduated elsewhere and/or have professional connections are just as willing to advocate for residents as program alumni.
Be careful with labeling places "the best". Sometimes they won't be the best fit for you. Sometimes they don't deserve their reputation, or their residents aren't really happy, but won't say it because they don't want to mare the reputation of the program that follows them forever.
Keep your options open and look at all programs before crossing them off your list due to one arbitrary filter or another. Programs are continually reminded to take a wholistic view of candidates. I encourage candidates to do the same with programs.

Good luck.

Those of you looking for jobs: in any field (medicine and otherwise), if you get 2/3: location, salary, job description/responsibilities. consider it a valid option. Hitting all 3 with your first at-bat is unlikely. And like another poster said, your first job is called your "first job" because it's highly likely a "second" one will follow.

Great advice for rad onc applicants circa 2005 to 2015.